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3-5-2
Apr 27, 2016 22:40:13 GMT
Post by cheeesfreeex on Apr 27, 2016 22:40:13 GMT
352, 532, 523....whatever version has generally been shite for us as a club as a whole. I think it stemmed the flow for Macari when he came in for a while but that is only until we got sorted if my memory serves me correctly. I'm only suggesting that.
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3-5-2
Apr 27, 2016 22:50:26 GMT
Post by mcf on Apr 27, 2016 22:50:26 GMT
352, 532, 523....whatever version has generally been shite for us as a club as a whole. I think it stemmed the flow for Macari when he came in for a while but that is only until we got sorted if my memory serves me correctly. I'm only suggesting that. I don't think Hughes would use it in the same way Macari did
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Post by chiefdelilah on Apr 28, 2016 6:51:12 GMT
West Ham used it against Arsenal and it went so badly they had to ditch it at half time. Haven't Southampton stopped using it already and Leicester haven't used it all season... Yes it's easy to re arrange it if it doesn't look like it's working. It's always more about players and their energy etc, like JoeinOz says. But without going through all the convoluted ins and outs, with our available players and on the back of these defeats I reckon it'd suit us and the personnel better than what we've been doing. And at home at this stage I'd like to see more gung ho in this one. It's not the 'be all', use it for a few games, pull it out of the bag now and then. Neither Leicester nor Southampton are using it much now. But they did, and it was coincidental with their upturns. Perhaps it left a lasting impression on their full backs, and throughout the squad, back to basics which has reaped longer term rewards. A deep disciplined defence, the ability to put numbers in midfield or drop back, wing backs with more freedom going forward, two up front. etc. Just a suggestion. Any system's brilliant if you hail all the times it's worked and pointedly ignore all the times it hasn't Cheesy. If it's so brilliant why didn't they stick with it? West Ham showed the problem with it, the space it leaves your opponents in the channels is frightening and it puts an incredible strain on your wide players. I don't agree we have the players for it - you've moved about five players out of position in your team.
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Post by JoeinOz on Apr 28, 2016 7:42:01 GMT
A team game determined by....players. Ok Ok. We may descend into pedantry. But you must concede that even the bestest players require some instruction, structure to work their magic within. It's far from kick and dribble. Even with the best players. A bit daft not to acknowledge the importance of systems in football. They all require movement and some flexibility, but you can tell a set up when you're watching a match. I hereby confess. I was being a bit pedantic ☺! But in the midst of systems sometimes simple things get forgotten. Players have to be applied and accountable .
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3-5-2
Apr 28, 2016 15:11:30 GMT
Post by superheroantonius on Apr 28, 2016 15:11:30 GMT
Its what Germany play in every world cup and Euro's isn't it ?
And I am fairly sure when they lose the ball, one of the strikers has to drop into midfield, TP style , making it six across the middle
It's a good system if you have the players ...
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3-5-2
Apr 28, 2016 15:54:54 GMT
Post by wembley4372 on Apr 28, 2016 15:54:54 GMT
352 only works against poor opposition and only then if the players are incredibly disciplined.
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3-5-2
Apr 28, 2016 17:03:03 GMT
Post by nott1 on Apr 28, 2016 17:03:03 GMT
Has anything other than a back 4 worked for a sustained period for anyone? Anywhere? Genuine question? Only three at the back and one of them being Wolly is a sick joke (tin hat is on).
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3-5-2
Apr 28, 2016 19:19:56 GMT
Post by cheeesfreeex on Apr 28, 2016 19:19:56 GMT
Ok Ok. We may descend into pedantry. But you must concede that even the bestest players require some instruction, structure to work their magic within. It's far from kick and dribble. Even with the best players. A bit daft not to acknowledge the importance of systems in football. They all require movement and some flexibility, but you can tell a set up when you're watching a match. I hereby confess. I was being a bit pedantic ☺! But in the midst of systems sometimes simple things get forgotten. Players have to be applied and accountable . Think you've hit the nail on the head of my thoughts on us at the moment. Missing some of the 'nuts & bolts' of nogger. Perhaps just tipped the balance in pursuit of the beautiful. The Villa and Newcastle scraped wins were heartwarming. Even Champions grind a few out. Three or four scrappy goals and a few successful corner routines added to what we've got, and we'd be the nads.
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3-5-2
Apr 28, 2016 19:21:42 GMT
via mobile
Post by JoeinOz on Apr 28, 2016 19:21:42 GMT
I hereby confess. I was being a bit pedantic ☺! But in the midst of systems sometimes simple things get forgotten. Players have to be applied and accountable . Think you've hit the nail on the head of my thoughts on us at the moment. Missing some of the 'nuts & bolts' of nogger. Perhaps just tipped the balance in pursuit of the beautiful. The Villa and Newcastle scraped wins were heartwarming. Even Champions grind a few out. Three or four scrappy goals and a few successful corner routines added to what we've got, and we'd be the nads. Being able to grind out a few is a big part of being a top side.
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3-5-2
Apr 28, 2016 19:34:31 GMT
Post by cheeesfreeex on Apr 28, 2016 19:34:31 GMT
Yes it's easy to re arrange it if it doesn't look like it's working. It's always more about players and their energy etc, like JoeinOz says. But without going through all the convoluted ins and outs, with our available players and on the back of these defeats I reckon it'd suit us and the personnel better than what we've been doing. And at home at this stage I'd like to see more gung ho in this one. It's not the 'be all', use it for a few games, pull it out of the bag now and then. Neither Leicester nor Southampton are using it much now. But they did, and it was coincidental with their upturns. Perhaps it left a lasting impression on their full backs, and throughout the squad, back to basics which has reaped longer term rewards. A deep disciplined defence, the ability to put numbers in midfield or drop back, wing backs with more freedom going forward, two up front. etc. Just a suggestion. Any system's brilliant if you hail all the times it's worked and pointedly ignore all the times it hasn't Cheesy. If it's so brilliant why didn't they stick with it? West Ham showed the problem with it, the space it leaves your opponents in the channels is frightening and it puts an incredible strain on your wide players. I don't agree we have the players for it - you've moved about five players out of position in your team. I know there's no convincing you Rob. No doubt Hughes won't try it anyway, but it's something I'd like to see. Last time it came to the forefront of me thunking was at the tail end of the three three nillers. A break in Dubai and dug ourselves out. Hoping we do again saturday. Enjoying the Conclusions.
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Post by kustokie on Apr 29, 2016 2:47:07 GMT
Has anything other than a back 4 worked for a sustained period for anyone? Anywhere? Genuine question? Only three at the back and one of them being Wolly is a sick joke (tin hat is on). No need for a tin hat. It would catastrophic.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Apr 29, 2016 4:15:32 GMT
If we went 3-5-2 we'd start leaking goals.
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3-5-2
Apr 29, 2016 13:05:17 GMT
Post by superheroantonius on Apr 29, 2016 13:05:17 GMT
If we went 3-5-2 we'd start leaking goals. That's not necessarily true ... but sadly probably is ! Its a very simple system ... as soon as you lose the ball ..one of the forwards drops into midfield ...making it six across the middle and three at the back Done well, its annoying to play against , as Germany show at every tournament ,and will do again at 2016 Works ace if you have lots of Phillip Lahm types who are quick into the tackle and can use the ball once they've got ... perhaps Arnie ? whelan ? Glenn Johnson ? and now i admit i am struggling !! If only we had the players :-)
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3-5-2
Apr 29, 2016 13:14:02 GMT
Post by vahl on Apr 29, 2016 13:14:02 GMT
Does 3-5-2 work in English football? I think we tend to set ourselves up far too attacking for it to be any kind of useful. LVG got stung with it this season for example.
Rather see your extra defender playing as a forward in a simple 4-4-2. City and Leicester have been doing it with success.
That said, there's nothing wrong with what we're doing ourselves - even if it does my tree in trying to see it myself sometimes.
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3-5-2
Apr 29, 2016 15:05:56 GMT
via mobile
Post by trickydicky73 on Apr 29, 2016 15:05:56 GMT
If we went 3-5-2 we'd start leaking goals. That's not necessarily true ... but sadly probably is ! Its a very simple system ... as soon as you lose the ball ..one of the forwards drops into midfield ...making it six across the middle and three at the back Done well, its annoying to play against , as Germany show at every tournament ,and will do again at 2016 Works ace if you have lots of Phillip Lahm types who are quick into the tackle and can use the ball once they've got ... perhaps Arnie ? whelan ? Glenn Johnson ? and now i admit i am struggling !! If only we had the players :-) My point was that we're hardly rock solid at the moment. You are probably right about the players not being suitable, though.
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3-5-2
Jul 16, 2016 18:56:15 GMT
Post by cheeesfreeex on Jul 16, 2016 18:56:15 GMT
---------------Butland----------------------- ------Cameron Shawcross Pieters--------------- ----Johnson Whelan Muniesa Arnautovic--------- ----------------Imbula----------------------- ---------------Bojan Jos---------------------
Shaqiri, Diouf, Walters, Adam, Wollscheid, Bardsley, Wilson etc for cover, Cup and impact. Bring a couple of youth through. Free kicks, corners.... Shame about Afellay.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jul 16, 2016 19:02:19 GMT
Think he went with it due to the lack of available wingers more than anything.
Off to a flyer!
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3-5-2
Jul 16, 2016 19:20:00 GMT
Post by cheeesfreeex on Jul 16, 2016 19:20:00 GMT
Think he went with it due to the lack of available wingers more than anything. Off to a flyer! Not sure what to make of it to be honest. Seemed in his post match interview it went a little deeper than that. Along similar lines to the False9 'we've been thinking about it for a while but didn't dare...', probably a stock response. I'm glad it's in his thinking. Needs some refining. I trust your opinion and analysis on the whole but can't understand your stance against the 352 thing. And can't get why you don't recognise that we've got the personnel to pull it off. Even down to Diouf being able to cover right wing back. As an option.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jul 16, 2016 19:31:06 GMT
Think he went with it due to the lack of available wingers more than anything. Off to a flyer! Not sure what to make of it to be honest. Seemed in his post match interview it went a little deeper than that. Along similar lines to the False9 'we've been thinking about it for a while but didn't dare...', probably a stock response. I'm glad it's in his thinking. Needs some refining. I trust your opinion and analysis on the whole but can't understand your stance against the 352 thing. And can't get why you don't recognise that we've got the personnel to pull it off. Even down to Diouf being able to cover right wing back. As an option. Flexibility is to be admired absolutely, and today is neither here nor there. I'm against it because it's never worked with any kind of regularity in English football and leaves you enormous vulnerable to pace and invention out wide and between the lines in the final third. I also don't agree we have the personnel for it. It would be a criminal waste of Arnie to hamstring him with a boatload of defensive responsibilities and Pieters isn't good enough going forward.
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3-5-2
Jul 16, 2016 21:13:34 GMT
Post by cheeesfreeex on Jul 16, 2016 21:13:34 GMT
Not sure what to make of it to be honest. Seemed in his post match interview it went a little deeper than that. Along similar lines to the False9 'we've been thinking about it for a while but didn't dare...', probably a stock response. I'm glad it's in his thinking. Needs some refining. I trust your opinion and analysis on the whole but can't understand your stance against the 352 thing. And can't get why you don't recognise that we've got the personnel to pull it off. Even down to Diouf being able to cover right wing back. As an option. Flexibility is to be admired absolutely, and today is neither here nor there. I'm against it because it's never worked with any kind of regularity in English football and leaves you enormous vulnerable to pace and invention out wide and between the lines in the final third.I also don't agree we have the personnel for it. It would be a criminal waste of Arnie to hamstring him with a boatload of defensive responsibilities and Pieters isn't good enough going forward. I agree about Pieters. I also think you are describing what's been happening t o us anyway. No matter what: better teams, players a bit of magic etc, finds any system out. Fullbacks playing high up, either leaving gaps out wide to exploit or sucking Whelan into the back four and then leaving acres in midfield. The combination of width from the back and inverted wingers has looked very congested/muddled at times too. Glad it's now in the armoury, and it's nice when a spell works.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jul 16, 2016 21:18:17 GMT
Flexibility is to be admired absolutely, and today is neither here nor there. I'm against it because it's never worked with any kind of regularity in English football and leaves you enormous vulnerable to pace and invention out wide and between the lines in the final third.I also don't agree we have the personnel for it. It would be a criminal waste of Arnie to hamstring him with a boatload of defensive responsibilities and Pieters isn't good enough going forward. I agree about Pieters. I also think you are describing what's been happening to us anyway. No matter what better teams, players a bit of magic finds any system out. Fullbacks playing high up, either leaving gaps out wide to exploit or sucking Whelan into the back four and then leaving acres in midfield. The combination of width from the back and inverted wingers has looked very congested/muddled at times too. Glad it's now in the armoury, and it's nice when a spell works. It's giving full backs even less protection in those circumstances though. With no left wing back up to snuff. While removing the best position of our current best attacking player.
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3-5-2
Jul 16, 2016 21:26:16 GMT
Post by cheeesfreeex on Jul 16, 2016 21:26:16 GMT
I agree about Pieters. I also think you are describing what's been happening to us anyway. No matter what better teams, players a bit of magic finds any system out. Fullbacks playing high up, either leaving gaps out wide to exploit or sucking Whelan into the back four and then leaving acres in midfield. The combination of width from the back and inverted wingers has looked very congested/muddled at times too. Glad it's now in the armoury, and it's nice when a spell works. It's giving full backs even less protection in those circumstances though. With no left wing back up to snuff. While removing the best position of our current best attacking player. Not sure about the lack of protection point. A mobile three of Cameron Shawcross Pieters and the option of two defensive minded midfielders and the option of the wing backs dropping deep if required offers better protection. I see the Arnie point, but I think he virtually plays that role anyway, his best work seems to come from drifting deep. But he could be the deeper freer of the two up top, if not. We'll see, it's interesting.
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3-5-2
Jul 16, 2016 21:39:04 GMT
Post by Pugsley on Jul 16, 2016 21:39:04 GMT
We need more bodies around Imbula. If Arnie goes then 4-3-3 would be sensible.
New Bloke Imbula Whelan (Affelay when fit)
Bojan Berahino Shaq
I think we'd win plenty of games and be more solid.
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3-5-2
Feb 13, 2017 13:26:34 GMT
Post by cheeesfreeex on Feb 13, 2017 13:26:34 GMT
Bumped for Lilfraise.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 13, 2017 13:42:27 GMT
This needs to be binned like the formation was!
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3-5-2
Feb 13, 2017 14:22:59 GMT
Post by theteacher on Feb 13, 2017 14:22:59 GMT
Players make systems. Systems don't make players.
If you have the right players to play a certain system then that is the correct system for those players.
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3-5-2
Feb 13, 2017 14:45:34 GMT
Post by kustokie on Feb 13, 2017 14:45:34 GMT
This needs to be binned like the formation was! Why?
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3-5-2
Feb 13, 2017 15:06:01 GMT
Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 13, 2017 15:06:01 GMT
This needs to be binned like the formation was! Why? I liked the pun
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3-5-2
Feb 13, 2017 15:27:14 GMT
via mobile
Post by dieguito88 on Feb 13, 2017 15:27:14 GMT
To be perfectly onest, if we want to play berahino from the start, this can be the only sistem that we can use.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2017 15:52:14 GMT
3-4-3.
Go for it.
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