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Post by timbo1988 on Feb 7, 2016 13:11:06 GMT
Wolly has been pretty decent overall, everyone bar you can see that Not everyone. I have 3 allies. Matty Etherington. My Dad. And the bloke that sits behind me at the Brit. He's been making mistake after mistake after mistake. People can't see it but that goes for most of this season. And here we are, people are catching me up. Make it 4 allies as I agree with you on him! Far too slow and error prone, Ryan has covered him well and some of his mistakes haven't been punished until yesterday! The Leicester away game was a joke too how people couldn't see how rubbish he was for two of goals there! Mahrez made him look stupid and he lost an elementary header!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2016 13:22:37 GMT
Not everyone. I have 3 allies. Matty Etherington. My Dad. And the bloke that sits behind me at the Brit. He's been making mistake after mistake after mistake. People can't see it but that goes for most of this season. And here we are, people are catching me up. Make it 4 allies as I agree with you on him! Far too slow and error prone, Ryan has covered him well and some of his mistakes haven't been punished until yesterday! The Leicester away game was a joke too how people couldn't see how rubbish he was for two of goals there! Mahrez made him look stupid and he lost an elementary header! Mahrez has made quite a lot of centre halves look stupid this season,not just Wollscheid. What I couldn't understand yesterday was why Muniesa seemed to be picking up Lukaku when for me it should have been the bigger centre halves job.
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Post by timbo1988 on Feb 7, 2016 13:26:03 GMT
Make it 4 allies as I agree with you on him! Far too slow and error prone, Ryan has covered him well and some of his mistakes haven't been punished until yesterday! The Leicester away game was a joke too how people couldn't see how rubbish he was for two of goals there! Mahrez made him look stupid and he lost an elementary header! Mahrez has made quite a lot of centre halves look stupid this season,not just Wollscheid. What I couldn't understand yesterday was why Muniesa seemed to be picking up Lukaku when for me it should have been the bigger centre halves job. It's not just Mahrez though he should have given a penalty away in the last minute vs Southampton, the list is endless! Wollschied picked him at one point in second half on the halfway line, the ball was played to Lukakus feet, instead of staying goal side and marshalling Lukaku he dived in trying to win the ball, Lukaku turned him and he was through one on one! A basic defensive error that is taught at under 11s level!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2016 13:33:03 GMT
I'm afraid Wolly is not good enough. He grabs hold of players on a regular basis and is far too slow.
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Post by jackcity on Feb 7, 2016 13:45:33 GMT
Look at the stats for the last two years Shawcross and Wilson lets hope we finish top ten this year with all our talented new players we shouldn't be playing games like yesterday every player with the exception of Butland look tired thats what happens when you don't rotate players over the likes of christmas new year ect and it wasn't just yesterday for a few weeks now they look like lower league players.
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Post by stokeoptimist on Feb 7, 2016 13:49:52 GMT
I'm afraid Wolly is not good enough. He grabs hold of players on a regular basis and is far too slow. A lot of bollox talked on this forum, Shawcross never grabs anyone does he. It seems like 5 minutes ago everyone was applauding Wolly and Muniesa for keeping Liverpool at bay for 120 mins? Once again the most fickle fans in the Country
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Post by no1972 on Feb 7, 2016 13:50:46 GMT
Look at the stats for the last two years Shawcross and Wilson lets hope we finish top ten this year with all our talented new players we shouldn't be playing games like yesterday every player with the exception of Butland look tired thats what happens when you don't rotate players over the likes of christmas new year ect and it wasn't just yesterday for a few weeks now they look like lower league players. Tired they play football not work down a pit all week,keep telling urge self you tired and you will be,doesn't stop them going out at night.
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Post by nott1 on Feb 7, 2016 13:55:26 GMT
My thread about "worst motm" highlights quite a few Wolly fans in support of him. I'm sorry but he really is one of the Pemierships worst CB's and I don't know why more people can't see this!
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Post by stokiejoe on Feb 7, 2016 13:56:09 GMT
Interesting having looked at that pass by Wolli a few times on MOTD, had the player he was passing it to run towards it to collect it rather than let it run past him there would not have been a problem. Still a foolish pass but not solely his fault.
Jack has been fantastic but if he hadn't tripped their player it would have been a goal kick not a penalty.
Muni was ball watching and hopefully Ryan would have controlled that.
Three daft mistakes leading to goals that a leader like Ryan may have helped to avoid.
Wolli lacks the discipline that Ryan instills in him when they are together.
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Post by StoKeith on Feb 8, 2016 1:05:55 GMT
OK, to take into account the Leicester and Sunderland games - I've gone through the data and have it in goals per 90 minutes.
League and Cup:
With Ryan: Played 1367 minutes / Conceded 11 goals - 0.725 goals per 90 minutes
Without Ryan: Played 1663 minutes / Conceded 26 goals - 1.41 goals per 90 minutes
Just League:
With Ryan: Played 1067 minutes / Conceded 8 goals - 0.67 goals per 90 minutes
Without Ryan: Played 1183 minutes / Conceded 24 goals - 1.83 goals per 90 minutes
Note 1: Two of the goals conceded in 43 minutes (against Sunderland) were with only 10 men as a result of Ryan's red card. If you leave out that one, we still concede 1.74 goals per 90 minutes in the league without Ryan.
So to conclude, in Premier League games, we concede nearly three times as many goals per 90 minutes without Ryan as with him in the team.
Note 2: Before the disaster of the last 3 games, we were conceding at a rate of 1.43 goals per 90 minutes without Ryan (in league games) - still more than twice as many as with him in the team.
Final conclusion: We need Ryan Shawcross back ASAP.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Feb 8, 2016 1:24:12 GMT
He was the least shit defender yesterday, no defence (like the game) I know. Wolly is a joke. Wolly has been pretty decent overall, everyone bar you can see that I can't agree, he had a little spell where he looked okay, but last season and decent amount of this season he has looked poor and very wobbly.
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Post by PotterLog on Feb 8, 2016 4:11:24 GMT
OK, to take into account the Leicester and Sunderland games - I've gone through the data and have it in goals per 90 minutes. League and Cup: With Ryan: Played 1367 minutes / Conceded 11 goals - 0.725 goals per 90 minutesWithout Ryan: Played 1663 minutes / Conceded 26 goals - 1.41 goals per 90 minutesJust League: With Ryan: Played 1067 minutes / Conceded 8 goals - 0.67 goals per 90 minutesWithout Ryan: Played 1183 minutes / Conceded 24 goals - 1.83 goals per 90 minutesNote 1: Two of the goals conceded in 43 minutes (against Sunderland) were with only 10 men as a result of Ryan's red card. If you leave out that one, we still concede 1.74 goals per 90 minutes in the league without Ryan. So to conclude, in Premier League games, we concede nearly three times as many goals per 90 minutes without Ryan as with him in the team. Note 2: Before the disaster of the last 3 games, we were conceding at a rate of 1.43 goals per 90 minutes without Ryan (in league games) - still more than twice as many as with him in the team. Final conclusion: We need Ryan Shawcross back ASAP. Wow. I mean it's nothing we didn't really know, but wow.
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Post by podolipotter on Feb 8, 2016 11:51:45 GMT
I am glad to note that my suspicions have been confirmed. Without Ryan we are in trouble. Now, with Wilson out as well, Woolly's lack of perception, with Muniesa's lack of pace and without SJWs backtracking fire, we are open to slaughter. Is Muniesa unfit? He runs like a child and is too concerned with getting his left foot on the ball. If we have the same CD pairing out at Bournemouth, the score-line may well be more than 4-0! Oh, and whatever happened to Huth.
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Post by nott1 on Feb 8, 2016 11:59:32 GMT
OK, to take into account the Leicester and Sunderland games - I've gone through the data and have it in goals per 90 minutes. League and Cup: With Ryan: Played 1367 minutes / Conceded 11 goals - 0.725 goals per 90 minutesWithout Ryan: Played 1663 minutes / Conceded 26 goals - 1.41 goals per 90 minutesJust League: With Ryan: Played 1067 minutes / Conceded 8 goals - 0.67 goals per 90 minutesWithout Ryan: Played 1183 minutes / Conceded 24 goals - 1.83 goals per 90 minutesNote 1: Two of the goals conceded in 43 minutes (against Sunderland) were with only 10 men as a result of Ryan's red card. If you leave out that one, we still concede 1.74 goals per 90 minutes in the league without Ryan. So to conclude, in Premier League games, we concede nearly three times as many goals per 90 minutes without Ryan as with him in the team. Note 2: Before the disaster of the last 3 games, we were conceding at a rate of 1.43 goals per 90 minutes without Ryan (in league games) - still more than twice as many as with him in the team. Final conclusion: We need Ryan Shawcross back ASAP. Also proves Wolly isn't in the same league as Ryan!
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Feb 8, 2016 13:26:21 GMT
The only stat that counts is, we have a better chance of winning when Ryan is on the pitch.
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Post by redstriper on Feb 8, 2016 14:15:40 GMT
OK, to take into account the Leicester and Sunderland games - I've gone through the data and have it in goals per 90 minutes. League and Cup: With Ryan: Played 1367 minutes / Conceded 11 goals - 0.725 goals per 90 minutesWithout Ryan: Played 1663 minutes / Conceded 26 goals - 1.41 goals per 90 minutesJust League: With Ryan: Played 1067 minutes / Conceded 8 goals - 0.67 goals per 90 minutesWithout Ryan: Played 1183 minutes / Conceded 24 goals - 1.83 goals per 90 minutesNote 1: Two of the goals conceded in 43 minutes (against Sunderland) were with only 10 men as a result of Ryan's red card. If you leave out that one, we still concede 1.74 goals per 90 minutes in the league without Ryan. So to conclude, in Premier League games, we concede nearly three times as many goals per 90 minutes without Ryan as with him in the team.
Note 2: Before the disaster of the last 3 games, we were conceding at a rate of 1.43 goals per 90 minutes without Ryan (in league games) - still more than twice as many as with him in the team. Final conclusion: We need Ryan Shawcross back ASAP. Great work keith, I couldn't be arsed... that stat really brings it home. I was just saying the same to my local café owner who is a Liverpool S.T.H. He said he was desperate to buy shawcross when they bought lovren. But commented that too many people at his club are influenced by Woy.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Feb 8, 2016 14:47:06 GMT
OK, to take into account the Leicester and Sunderland games - I've gone through the data and have it in goals per 90 minutes. League and Cup: With Ryan: Played 1367 minutes / Conceded 11 goals - 0.725 goals per 90 minutesWithout Ryan: Played 1663 minutes / Conceded 26 goals - 1.41 goals per 90 minutesJust League: With Ryan: Played 1067 minutes / Conceded 8 goals - 0.67 goals per 90 minutesWithout Ryan: Played 1183 minutes / Conceded 24 goals - 1.83 goals per 90 minutesNote 1: Two of the goals conceded in 43 minutes (against Sunderland) were with only 10 men as a result of Ryan's red card. If you leave out that one, we still concede 1.74 goals per 90 minutes in the league without Ryan. So to conclude, in Premier League games, we concede nearly three times as many goals per 90 minutes without Ryan as with him in the team. Note 2: Before the disaster of the last 3 games, we were conceding at a rate of 1.43 goals per 90 minutes without Ryan (in league games) - still more than twice as many as with him in the team. Final conclusion: We need Ryan Shawcross back ASAP. Also proves Wolly isn't in the same league as Ryan! No one is tbf
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Post by march4 on Feb 8, 2016 15:28:29 GMT
OK, to take into account the Leicester and Sunderland games - I've gone through the data and have it in goals per 90 minutes. League and Cup: With Ryan: Played 1367 minutes / Conceded 11 goals - 0.725 goals per 90 minutesWithout Ryan: Played 1663 minutes / Conceded 26 goals - 1.41 goals per 90 minutesJust League: With Ryan: Played 1067 minutes / Conceded 8 goals - 0.67 goals per 90 minutesWithout Ryan: Played 1183 minutes / Conceded 24 goals - 1.83 goals per 90 minutesNote 1: Two of the goals conceded in 43 minutes (against Sunderland) were with only 10 men as a result of Ryan's red card. If you leave out that one, we still concede 1.74 goals per 90 minutes in the league without Ryan. So to conclude, in Premier League games, we concede nearly three times as many goals per 90 minutes without Ryan as with him in the team. Note 2: Before the disaster of the last 3 games, we were conceding at a rate of 1.43 goals per 90 minutes without Ryan (in league games) - still more than twice as many as with him in the team. Final conclusion: We need Ryan Shawcross back ASAP. That's a cracking piece of work, mate. And wow!! It does tell a story
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2016 16:19:34 GMT
How shit must our other players be if one man can make that much difference
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Post by thestatusquo on Feb 8, 2016 16:50:25 GMT
It certainly confirms what most have here have suspected all along. It isn't just how well Ryan plays its the effect he has on the other players around him.
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Post by reddipotter on Feb 8, 2016 16:50:43 GMT
Three of our back four on Saturday have played international football. Neither them nor our coaching team can manage to organise a defence to play together and follow the basics. There were obvious weaknesses in that centre-back pairing, but did they keep things tight and play to their strengths? No, they did exactly the opposite.
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Post by j3st3r on Feb 8, 2016 17:43:44 GMT
Wolly has something of the Marc Wilson about him. You just know that at some point during the game.. he's going to do something that could cost us... sometimes he gets away with it.. sometimes he doesnt.. but its always coming...
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Post by Olgrligm on Feb 8, 2016 19:39:05 GMT
OK, to take into account the Leicester and Sunderland games - I've gone through the data and have it in goals per 90 minutes. League and Cup: With Ryan: Played 1367 minutes / Conceded 11 goals - 0.725 goals per 90 minutesWithout Ryan: Played 1663 minutes / Conceded 26 goals - 1.41 goals per 90 minutesJust League: With Ryan: Played 1067 minutes / Conceded 8 goals - 0.67 goals per 90 minutesWithout Ryan: Played 1183 minutes / Conceded 24 goals - 1.83 goals per 90 minutesNote 1: Two of the goals conceded in 43 minutes (against Sunderland) were with only 10 men as a result of Ryan's red card. If you leave out that one, we still concede 1.74 goals per 90 minutes in the league without Ryan. So to conclude, in Premier League games, we concede nearly three times as many goals per 90 minutes without Ryan as with him in the team. Note 2: Before the disaster of the last 3 games, we were conceding at a rate of 1.43 goals per 90 minutes without Ryan (in league games) - still more than twice as many as with him in the team. Final conclusion: We need Ryan Shawcross back ASAP. I wonder if Hodgson looked at our slapstick defending on Saturday and paused to consider how we're not relegation contenders. Had he done so, he would surely have concluded that Ryan is the best defender in England.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Feb 8, 2016 20:23:46 GMT
OK, to take into account the Leicester and Sunderland games - I've gone through the data and have it in goals per 90 minutes. League and Cup: With Ryan: Played 1367 minutes / Conceded 11 goals - 0.725 goals per 90 minutesWithout Ryan: Played 1663 minutes / Conceded 26 goals - 1.41 goals per 90 minutesJust League: With Ryan: Played 1067 minutes / Conceded 8 goals - 0.67 goals per 90 minutesWithout Ryan: Played 1183 minutes / Conceded 24 goals - 1.83 goals per 90 minutesNote 1: Two of the goals conceded in 43 minutes (against Sunderland) were with only 10 men as a result of Ryan's red card. If you leave out that one, we still concede 1.74 goals per 90 minutes in the league without Ryan. So to conclude, in Premier League games, we concede nearly three times as many goals per 90 minutes without Ryan as with him in the team. Note 2: Before the disaster of the last 3 games, we were conceding at a rate of 1.43 goals per 90 minutes without Ryan (in league games) - still more than twice as many as with him in the team. Final conclusion: We need Ryan Shawcross back ASAP. I wonder if Hodgson looked at our slapstick defending on Saturday and paused to consider how we're not relegation contenders. Had he done so, he would surely have concluded that Ryan is the best defender in England. I don't think that would have passed through his thick skull for one second, the man is a fecking moron.
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Post by passtheoatcakes on Feb 8, 2016 20:30:40 GMT
OK, to take into account the Leicester and Sunderland games - I've gone through the data and have it in goals per 90 minutes. League and Cup: With Ryan: Played 1367 minutes / Conceded 11 goals - 0.725 goals per 90 minutesWithout Ryan: Played 1663 minutes / Conceded 26 goals - 1.41 goals per 90 minutesJust League: With Ryan: Played 1067 minutes / Conceded 8 goals - 0.67 goals per 90 minutesWithout Ryan: Played 1183 minutes / Conceded 24 goals - 1.83 goals per 90 minutesNote 1: Two of the goals conceded in 43 minutes (against Sunderland) were with only 10 men as a result of Ryan's red card. If you leave out that one, we still concede 1.74 goals per 90 minutes in the league without Ryan. So to conclude, in Premier League games, we concede nearly three times as many goals per 90 minutes without Ryan as with him in the team. Note 2: Before the disaster of the last 3 games, we were conceding at a rate of 1.43 goals per 90 minutes without Ryan (in league games) - still more than twice as many as with him in the team. Final conclusion: We need Ryan Shawcross back ASAP. This is brilliant work keith! We all knew this (remember his comeback game against Chelsea?) but to see the actual stats is mind boggling. If ever there was hard evidence that LMH needs to spend big on a really decent back up centre half for Ryan this summer this is it. I keep thinking back to the Blackburn cup game where we were torn to shreds, seems that we haven't learnt a great deal since that game.
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Post by Kjones9 on Feb 8, 2016 20:56:02 GMT
Shawcross still is our best and most influential player, so these stats are hardly surprising.
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Post by basingstokie on Feb 8, 2016 20:56:12 GMT
Our best CB partnership, and Tbh, one of best in league, is Ryan and Wolly. When Wolly is missing Ryan's experience can guide a weaker player through, but when Ryan is missing Wolly can't do that.
Another Ryan would be awesome, but let's be honest we lucked out with his signing and the fact that our own progression has matched his over the last 8.5 years so we haven't felt the need to replace him and he hasn't felt our ambition didn't match his.
It's going to be a sad sad day when he no longer plays for SCFC. I hope that will be the day he retires, but if he went to OT or wherever to get CL football then we certainly couldn't begrudge him that.
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Post by oatcakesteve on Feb 8, 2016 21:23:37 GMT
He's back for Bournemouth isn't he?
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Post by StoKeith on Feb 8, 2016 22:09:43 GMT
OK, to take into account the Leicester and Sunderland games - I've gone through the data and have it in goals per 90 minutes. League and Cup: With Ryan: Played 1367 minutes / Conceded 11 goals - 0.725 goals per 90 minutesWithout Ryan: Played 1663 minutes / Conceded 26 goals - 1.41 goals per 90 minutesJust League: With Ryan: Played 1067 minutes / Conceded 8 goals - 0.67 goals per 90 minutesWithout Ryan: Played 1183 minutes / Conceded 24 goals - 1.83 goals per 90 minutesNote 1: Two of the goals conceded in 43 minutes (against Sunderland) were with only 10 men as a result of Ryan's red card. If you leave out that one, we still concede 1.74 goals per 90 minutes in the league without Ryan. So to conclude, in Premier League games, we concede nearly three times as many goals per 90 minutes without Ryan as with him in the team. Note 2: Before the disaster of the last 3 games, we were conceding at a rate of 1.43 goals per 90 minutes without Ryan (in league games) - still more than twice as many as with him in the team. Final conclusion: We need Ryan Shawcross back ASAP. That's a cracking piece of work, mate. And wow!! It does tell a story I was pretty amazed at the magnitude of the difference to be honest! I wonder if there is another player in the league who makes that much of a difference to his side? Vincent Kompany maybe... I think I'll check that later!
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Post by adi on Feb 8, 2016 23:29:39 GMT
And to think it was said we wouldn't miss him! Crazy, crazy folk! Yup. And then we got the shit German. What is our experienced premier league manager thinking? Best to keep second guessing him.
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