Important Observations from Liverpool game

[chrisparker]

1) Pieters is hopeless in possession when he doesn't have any support. This has actually been an issue for a while. Every time he gets the ball in the opposition half & he doesn't have Arnie in support, he just lumps the ball forward (knowing Bojan is our frontman), rather than playing a simple 1-2 with the midfield players (something that Johnson always does, successfully). 

2) Bojan really really needs to hold the ball better. His first touch was dreadful (both today & the game against West Brom). He also needs to realise that he's not Messi.

3) Johnson gets no support from Shaqiri when we're defending. This is a very serious issue that'll soon result in a goal in the next few weeks if it's not addressed.

4) I started a thread today arguing that we lacked creativity in midfield & I was basically slaughtered for even suggesting that something needed to change. Well guess what, this is exactly what Liverpool exploited today. They didn't press our defenders, but they constantly pressed our midfield players & since none of our midfield players have the pace or creativity to play themselves out of this pressure, they were forced to play it backwards every time, leaving the front 3 completely isolated. First I think it's fair to say that we were completely outplayed. You know you have a problem when Shawcross has the highest passing accuracy in the team. Sparky realised this & decided to bring on Walters so that we could play a bit more direct & that's why we were better in the second half. But I think it's safe to say we've been figured out with the current midfield 3. Cameron is not a long term solution to the hole in midfield. Desperately need someone more creative like Shelvey who'll always try to make a forward pass. Van Ginkel should be given another shot at Norwich.

5) Cameron & Whelan should NOT push forward when we have the ball because that leaves us completely open to counter attacks.

6) The whole purpose of the false 9 is to have multiple players making runs behind the opposition but today Bojan kept dropping into midfield & Shaq & Arni had no one to play off. But I'm pretty sure this was just a one off thing.

7) Mistakes, mistakes, mistakes. I think it's fair to say that this is what really cost us in the end today. Liverpool didn't create an awful lot today. In fact I don't think they even had a shot on target in the second half. If you watch the highlights to the game, you'll realise that Liverpool had a total of 8 chances. Of those 8 chances, 7 were created because of individual mistakes from our players. 

[sportsman]

I agree.

[Kjones9]

I'd say majority of that is just down to players having an off day.


Nothing like an over reaction though so well done.

[harryburrows]

Why important ?

[wembley4372]

Jan 5, 2016 23:23:35 GMT chrisparker said:

1) Pieters is hopeless in possession when he doesn't have any support. This has actually been an issue for a while. Every time he gets the ball in the opposition half & he doesn't have Arnie in support, he just lumps the ball forward (knowing Bojan is our frontman), rather than playing a simple 1-2 with the midfield players (something that Johnson always does, successfully). 

2) Bojan really really needs to hold the ball better. His first touch was dreadful (both today & the game against West Brom). He also needs to realise that he's not Messi.

3) Johnson gets no support from Shaqiri when we're defending. This is a very serious issue that'll soon result in a goal in the next few weeks if it's not addressed.

4) I started a thread today arguing that we lacked creativity in midfield & I was basically slaughtered for even suggesting that something needed to change. Well guess what, this is exactly what Liverpool exploited today. They didn't press our defenders, but they constantly pressed our midfield players & since none of our midfield players have the pace or creativity to play themselves out of this pressure, they were forced to play it backwards every time, leaving the front 3 completely isolated. First I think it's fair to say that we were completely outplayed. You know you have a problem when Shawcross has the highest passing accuracy in the team. Sparky realised this & decided to bring on Walters so that we could play a bit more direct & that's why we were better in the second half. But I think it's safe to say we've been figured out with the current midfield 3. Cameron is not a long term solution to the hole in midfield. Desperately need someone more creative like Shelvey who'll always try to make a forward pass. Van Ginkel should be given another shot at Norwich.

5) Cameron & Whelan should NOT push forward when we have the ball because that leaves us completely open to counter attacks.

6) The whole purpose of the false 9 is to have multiple players making runs behind the opposition but today Bojan kept dropping into midfield & Shaq & Arni had no one to play off. But I'm pretty sure this was just a one off thing.

7) Mistakes, mistakes, mistakes. I think it's fair to say that this is what really cost us in the end today. Liverpool didn't create an awful lot today. In fact I don't think they even had a shot on target in the second half. If you watch the highlights to the game, you'll realise that Liverpool had a total of 8 chances. Of those 8 chances, 7 were created because of individual mistakes from our players. 

Didn't get past point one. You need to watch it again.

[boskampsflaps]

No5: no shit, its taken you this long to realise, any dm pushing forward leaves you open.

[elystokie]

Jan 6, 2016 0:21:57 GMT harryburrows said:

Why important ?

That's the bit I don't get Harry, as well as why he couldn't put it on one of the other threads.

Inflated sense of self worth?

Think we have enough of them on here already ::)

[uknorse]

are u shelveys agent?....thats 2days running in 2 posts youve posted something thats aimed at us just signing him?.....i think hes shite

[milky]

Jan 5, 2016 23:23:35 GMT chrisparker said:

1) Pieters is hopeless in possession when he doesn't have any support. This has actually been an issue for a while. Every time he gets the ball in the opposition half & he doesn't have Arnie in support, he just lumps the ball forward (knowing Bojan is our frontman), rather than playing a simple 1-2 with the midfield players (something that Johnson always does, successfully). 

2) Bojan really really needs to hold the ball better. His first touch was dreadful (both today & the game against West Brom). He also needs to realise that he's not Messi.

3) Johnson gets no support from Shaqiri when we're defending. This is a very serious issue that'll soon result in a goal in the next few weeks if it's not addressed.

4) I started a thread today arguing that we lacked creativity in midfield & I was basically slaughtered for even suggesting that something needed to change. Well guess what, this is exactly what Liverpool exploited today. They didn't press our defenders, but they constantly pressed our midfield players & since none of our midfield players have the pace or creativity to play themselves out of this pressure, they were forced to play it backwards every time, leaving the front 3 completely isolated. First I think it's fair to say that we were completely outplayed. You know you have a problem when Shawcross has the highest passing accuracy in the team. Sparky realised this & decided to bring on Walters so that we could play a bit more direct & that's why we were better in the second half. But I think it's safe to say we've been figured out with the current midfield 3. Cameron is not a long term solution to the hole in midfield. Desperately need someone more creative like Shelvey who'll always try to make a forward pass. Van Ginkel should be given another shot at Norwich.

5) Cameron & Whelan should NOT push forward when we have the ball because that leaves us completely open to counter attacks.

6) The whole purpose of the false 9 is to have multiple players making runs behind the opposition but today Bojan kept dropping into midfield & Shaq & Arni had no one to play off. But I'm pretty sure this was just a one off thing.

7) Mistakes, mistakes, mistakes. I think it's fair to say that this is what really cost us in the end today. Liverpool didn't create an awful lot today. In fact I don't think they even had a shot on target in the second half. If you watch the highlights to the game, you'll realise that Liverpool had a total of 8 chances. Of those 8 chances, 7 were created because of individual mistakes from our players. 

If,as you say,a number of these issues are long standing (in your opinion )how come you didn't air your concerns after the man city game...Or man u or Everton?

And for a team that allegedly has so many flaws, how have we managed to win 8 games and reach a cup semi?

We were poor last night..too many players didn't show for whatever reason.They have turned up more than not recently so I'm willing to cut them a bit of slack.

Over reaction at its finest. ..

[chiefdelilah]

So the midfield should be creative but not push forward. Good luck with that.

[wembley4372]

Just got to point 4. You definitely need to watch it again.

[PotterLog]

Jan 5, 2016 23:23:35 GMT chrisparker said:

1) Pieters is hopeless in possession when he doesn't have any support. This has actually been an issue for a while. Every time he gets the ball in the opposition half & he doesn't have Arnie in support, he just lumps the ball forward (knowing Bojan is our frontman), rather than playing a simple 1-2 with the midfield players (something that Johnson always does, successfully). 

2) Bojan really really needs to hold the ball better. His first touch was dreadful (both today & the game against West Brom). He also needs to realise that he's not Messi.

3) Johnson gets no support from Shaqiri when we're defending. This is a very serious issue that'll soon result in a goal in the next few weeks if it's not addressed.

4) I started a thread today arguing that we lacked creativity in midfield & I was basically slaughtered for even suggesting that something needed to change. Well guess what, this is exactly what Liverpool exploited today. They didn't press our defenders, but they constantly pressed our midfield players & since none of our midfield players have the pace or creativity to play themselves out of this pressure, they were forced to play it backwards every time, leaving the front 3 completely isolated. First I think it's fair to say that we were completely outplayed. You know you have a problem when Shawcross has the highest passing accuracy in the team. Sparky realised this & decided to bring on Walters so that we could play a bit more direct & that's why we were better in the second half. But I think it's safe to say we've been figured out with the current midfield 3. Cameron is not a long term solution to the hole in midfield. Desperately need someone more creative like Shelvey who'll always try to make a forward pass. Van Ginkel should be given another shot at Norwich.

5) Cameron & Whelan should NOT push forward when we have the ball because that leaves us completely open to counter attacks.

6) The whole purpose of the false 9 is to have multiple players making runs behind the opposition but today Bojan kept dropping into midfield & Shaq & Arni had no one to play off. But I'm pretty sure this was just a one off thing.

7) Mistakes, mistakes, mistakes. I think it's fair to say that this is what really cost us in the end today. Liverpool didn't create an awful lot today. In fact I don't think they even had a shot on target in the second half. If you watch the highlights to the game, you'll realise that Liverpool had a total of 8 chances. Of those 8 chances, 7 were created because of individual mistakes from our players. 

You're telling the most skillful footballer most of us have ever seen at this club that he needs to "hold the ball better" and "realise he's not Messi"

[prem4stoke]

I think you need to adjust the team and play slightly depending on who you play. We normally have success against Liverpool with Walters upfront second half it was better. I don't think we are quite there to try and impose our game on every team it just doesn't work. That said we were outpaced and our play was read far to easily, loads of passes intercepted.

[harryburrows]

Jan 6, 2016 6:59:48 GMT chiefdelilah said:

So the midfield should be creative but not push forward. Good luck with that.

Looks like you have competition Rob

[retired1]

We now know how other teams are going to play against us for the rest of the season. Stifle and press us and we don't have a clue.

[raythesailor]

The so called"false No 9 worked very well against Man City and took them totally by surprise. They possibly trained and planned for what they were expecting from us.

Surprisingly on Boxing Day Man U fell for, or failed to recognise what we were doing.

Meanwhile the Media started to get Stokealona fever, our future opponents started to take notice, and what happened?

The magic trio got crowded out, and our midfield become almost ineffective, because Pulis and Klop had done there homework.

Against W Brom and Liverpool a change of tactics and possibly squad would have kept them guessing and ill prepared.

Liverpool totally had us Sussed and knew how to outplay us.

We have the ability, and the squad, we just need to adapt from game to game and keep our opponents guessing which Stoke team is turning up.

[salopstick]

Did Peter crouch do his back in bending over to touch hands with shaq on the sub change over?

Sure I heard somthing snap

[scfc75]

Jan 6, 2016 21:09:13 GMT salopstick said:

Did Peter crouch do his back in bending over to touch hands with shaq on the sub change over?

Sure I heard somthing snap

That was our old friend the cup-exit crocodile

[johnnysoul60]

Generally we have coped quite well without Nzonzi but our midfield last night was crying out for a player like him at his best with that strength to hold players off and comfort in possession

[raythesailor]

Every time (almost) that Shaq o Arnie gained possession the only alternatives open to them was to play the ball backwards or at best sideways.

Liverpool had done there homework and frankly outplayed us.

Possibly the best team/opponents on the night that I have seen this season ?

[fatboystoke]

"Self Important Observations" would be a more accurate title.

[raythesailor]

Jan 6, 2016 22:11:20 GMT fatboystoke said:

"Self Important Observations" would be a more accurate title.

A sensible and well reasoned thread so far, struggling to comprehend your contribution.

Please feel free to make constructive and well reasoned comments.

I have fallen into your attempted trap . Yawn

[Deleted]

Jan 5, 2016 23:56:29 GMT Kjones9 said:

I'd say majority of that is just down to players having an off day.


Nothing like an over reaction though so well done.

Spot on, the players mentioned in the post have all been superb this season and we can't expect performances like the one against Man City every week, disappointing to lose but the tie isn't over yet.

It's easy to forget that this is only Hughes' third season with us and just how far we have come as a club, I remember Thorne missing an open goal and us losing 8-0 to Liverpool in the cup 15 years ago, it was only on Champ Manager that I thought I'd see us competing against top sides every week in the Premier League and in a cup semi final.

[cheeesfreeex]

Jan 6, 2016 21:52:40 GMT raythesailor said:

Every time (almost) that Shaq o Arnie gained possession the only alternatives open to them was to play the ball backwards or at best sideways.

Liverpool had done there homework and frankly outplayed us.

Possibly the best team/opponents on the night that I have seen this season ?

Fair observation Ray.
Once Klopp has got them Klopp fit and added some of his own players you can imagine that Liverpool will/can become an absolute machine.
I thought his transition would take a season or so and it does seem that the cost of his expectations is being felt in hamstrings and such at the moment. The most impressive things for me about Liverpool last night were their tenacity and pressing, the unglamouress facets of the game, and the fact the key losses didn't affect their continuity. I thought when Coutinho went off the whole impetus would shift.
I've read on here that we had 60% odd possession, astonishing considering it seemed to me that they were virtually camped out in our half for majority of the first 45mins.
Last night I thought Liverpool were energetic but not that good, toothless really, we were sloppy and wasteful and they didn't capitalize on it.
Having watched the limited Skylights our chances were better than I saw from high up in the SS, the fact that the majority came in front of the Boothen confirms that we did naff all of note in the first half. The highlights favoured us I thought, Liverpool were nowt special.

I think Spurs {until they took Kane off}, Arsenal, Watford, Chelsea and perhaps Everton {if they'd tightened up} have all been tougher opponents, offered sterner tests this season.
It looks like Klopp is in danger of breaking Liverpool before he mends them, depending perhaps how the window pans out for him.

[spitthedog]

Its a really good post.

It says a lot about the dire state of Dutch football if Pieters can make it in their squad.

and Cameron would not be on my bench. Not good enough for this level.

[chrisparker]

Jan 7, 2016 0:16:32 GMT spitthedog said:

Its a really good post.

It says a lot about the dire state of Dutch football if Pieters can make it in their squad.

and Cameron would not be on my bench. Not good enough for this level.

Would you be willing to give Muniesa another try?

[superheroantonius]

Though it is not Diouf's favouite position it would be interesting to see ...

Annie Shaq Diouf

Afellay

Whelan Cameron

Pieters wolly shawX Johnno

Butland

[jimigoodwinsbeard]

Pieters has been one of our most consistent players this season. He had a bad game (along with 5-6 others). It happens. I watched the highlights on sky last night, and as bad as we were and as good as Lpool were in the 1st half , in the 2nd half we created 2-3 good chances and a very good one with walters' chance. We always seem to want to throw the baby out with the bath water after every defeat!!

[daveandeddy]

Jan 5, 2016 23:56:29 GMT Kjones9 said:

I'd say majority of that is just down to players having an off day.


Nothing like an over reaction though so well done.

   This ......................

    They pressed we didn't
    Our back line was too slow to support our front line
    Our tempo was too slow


    It happens ....   No need to over analyse everything 

      Lets put it right next time and be glad of the opportunity 2 legged ties give us


      Come on you rip roaring potters