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Post by homer32 on Nov 30, 2015 19:35:56 GMT
I remember Tony Pulis recently taking up this issue with the FA when Yacob got 2 yellows in a game & the 2nd one was very harsh.I think LMH should be adding his support after saturday as Dermot Gallagher stated today that Ryan's 2nd yellow was a mistake by Dean.It's time this rule is changed as a 1 game ban can still be v costly for a club if an error has been made.
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Post by steakandchips on Nov 30, 2015 20:02:20 GMT
He made a tackle not long after his first booking and should have been sent off, so although the actual 2nd wasn't even a foul he was righty sent off
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2015 20:06:43 GMT
Officials are human...even Dean....they make mistakes,sometimes in your favour,sometimes against.
We've had a few go in our favour this season.
Stop wingeing and accept that
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2015 20:09:07 GMT
He made a tackle not long after his first booking and should have been sent off, so although the actual 2nd wasn't even a foul he was righty sent off I honestly don't understand that line of thinking, even if it had happened to an opposing player. Where in the game's rules does it state 'if you get a chance to make up for a 'mistake'/poor decision you made earlier then you should take it'? His second booking wasn't even a foul. |
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Post by Davef on Nov 30, 2015 20:13:41 GMT
He made a tackle not long after his first booking and should have been sent off, so although the actual 2nd wasn't even a foul he was righty sent off Is this post for real? |
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Post by whydelilah on Nov 30, 2015 20:20:29 GMT
He made a tackle not long after his first booking and should have been sent off, so although the actual 2nd wasn't even a foul he was righty sent off Unbelievable Jeff. |
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Post by AlbertTatlock on Nov 30, 2015 20:28:28 GMT
He made a tackle not long after his first booking and should have been sent off, so although the actual 2nd wasn't even a foul he was righty sent off How the fuck do you make that out?? He wasn't yellow carded for the first tackle got a yellow for the second tackle and wrongly got a second yellow for a fair tackle. These fucktards we let ref the game cant have it all their own way, if they make a decision which they later think they got wrong its because of their own ineptitude. Where was the yellow card for Pantillimon for handling outside the box and for the numerous dives and cheating from Blunderland. Jasper Dean fucked up not once or twice but at least half a dozen times and we were on the end of all the wrong decisions. How the fuck you can make a such a statement - that Ryan "was rightly sent off" for a fair tackle in which he won the ball and didn't foul the opposition player is fucking pathetic. Are you for real or just on a wind up? Gouranga.  |
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Post by steakandchips on Nov 30, 2015 20:44:00 GMT
He made a tackle not long after his first booking and should have been sent off, so although the actual 2nd wasn't even a foul he was righty sent off Is this post for real? The ref made 2 mistakes, the first was not giving Shawcross a 2nd yellow in the first half. The 2nd was giving him one in the 2nd half. Either way you look at it, he should have been sent off in that game, and he was. |
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boz
Spectator
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Post by boz on Nov 30, 2015 20:49:05 GMT
So every mistimed tackle is now a yellow card.....what a crock of shit
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Post by AlbertTatlock on Nov 30, 2015 20:49:39 GMT
No he shouldn't. Have you any idea what you're talking about? Gouranga. |
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Post by euan ouzami on Nov 30, 2015 20:50:44 GMT
I agree with the principle but Ryan's case, while technically probably wrong, doesn't seem the best example
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Post by numpty40 on Nov 30, 2015 20:53:49 GMT
The ref made 2 mistakes, the first was not giving Shawcross a 2nd yellow in the first half. The 2nd was giving him one in the 2nd half. Either way you look at it, he should have been sent off in that game, and he was. Shawcross was never in danger of receiving a second yellow in the second half because he hadn't received a first yellow when he should have had his second. However, if he had received a first yellow when he should then he probably wouldn't have made the challenge for the yellow card he actually got. Know what I mean?  |
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Post by lancer on Nov 30, 2015 21:01:29 GMT
It's ridiculous that appeals can be made against a ref making one mistake in giving a straight red, yet can't be appealed over the chances of making a fifty fifty mistake issuing a second yellow.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Nov 30, 2015 21:02:26 GMT
The ref made 2 mistakes, the first was not giving Shawcross a 2nd yellow in the first half. The 2nd was giving him one in the 2nd half. Either way you look at it, he should have been sent off in that game, and he was. 'The 2nd was giving him one in the second half' Giving him what? If he gave him one should he have then given him a 2nd? Or a 2nd yellow? |
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Post by steakandchips on Nov 30, 2015 21:41:19 GMT
Can't believe there's such uproar on this. Whatever way you look at it, Ryan made 2 yellow card deserving tackles in that game. He got 2 yellow cards.
Accept it and move on.
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Post by tijuanabrass on Dec 1, 2015 9:34:23 GMT
Can't believe there's such uproar on this. Whatever way you look at it, Ryan made 2 yellow card deserving tackles in that game. He got 2 yellow cards. Accept it and move on. Oh no he didn't |
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Post by BraveSirRobin on Dec 1, 2015 9:41:26 GMT
Can't believe there's such uproar on this. Whatever way you look at it, Ryan made 2 yellow card deserving tackles in that game. He got 2 yellow cards. Accept it and move on. Can't reason with stupid. |
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Post by milky on Dec 1, 2015 9:50:54 GMT
It seems clear that during half time after receiving the Ferguson treatment from Fat Sam that Dean had made up his mind Ryan was going to walk during the second half.
It was only a question of when and not if.
You can almost hear Fat Sams half time talk.
"As soon as you get near Shawcross go down like a bag of shit "
It took less than 60 seconds.
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Post by milky on Dec 1, 2015 9:53:44 GMT
Can't believe there's such uproar on this. Whatever way you look at it, Ryan made 2 yellow card deserving tackles in that game. He got 2 yellow cards. Accept it and move on. The first one wasn't a yellow...because Dean didn't give it.. Then again he spent all game trying to rectify his mistakes and in doing so just got worse. |
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Dec 1, 2015 10:27:22 GMT
He made a tackle not long after his first booking and should have been sent off, so although the actual 2nd wasn't even a foul he was righty sent off Is this post for real? I think he is getting confused with the tackle on Whatmore, which could have produced a yellow, BEFORE the first yellow he got. But you can argue that, if that yellow had been given, then the tackle on Fletcher which produced the first yellow would not have happened. In all of his career, Shawcross has only rarely been given two yellows. Like most players, he gets a yellow and then attempts to make sure he doesn't warrant another. And his second yellow on Saturday wasn't even a foul let alone a yellow. I can see why they don't allow appeals against a single yellow - it would be very time consuming if they did - but double yellows resulting in a red, should be reviewed in my opinion. |
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Dec 1, 2015 11:09:51 GMT
I think he is getting confused with the tackle on Whatmore, which could have produced a yellow, BEFORE the first yellow he got. But you can argue that, if that yellow had been given, then the tackle on Fletcher which produced the first yellow would not have happened. In all of his career, Shawcross has only rarely been given two yellows. Like most players, he gets a yellow and then attempts to make sure he doesn't warrant another. And his second yellow on Saturday wasn't even a foul let alone a yellow. I can see why they don't allow appeals against a single yellow - it would be very time consuming if they did - but double yellows resulting in a red, should be reviewed in my opinion. I think that is all sound logic by you and numpty, John. Also, without getting too philosophical, if he had been cautioned for the first foul, the game would have stopped and then re-started in a completely different way, and therefore the tackle for what turned out to be his first yellow wouldn't have happened and neither would the second................but we have no way of knowing what would have happened instead  That said, I don't know why people on here are often so unpleasant to each other  Steakandchips was simply making the point that in his opinion Shawcross committed two yellow card offences and therefore cannot complain about his sending off, and you can see where he's coming from even if there is the flaw in the logic which you have pointed out. It doesn't merit the kind of patronising aggressive response it produced ( "are you for real" etc etc). Overall, although, having seen it on TV I think the 2nd caution was incorrect, I must say that IMHO it doesn't rank too high among the great injustices of football. I agree with your last sentence. It would be completely impractical to have an appeal mechanism for all cautions but IMHO there is a case for allowing appeals where 2 cautions result in a red and therefore an immediate suspension, but if that was brought in, no doubt some would say that it was inconsistent to allow that but not to allow an appeal against a 5th red before the deadline resulting in a suspension...... and so it goes on. Lines have to be drawn somewhere. |
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Dec 1, 2015 11:40:45 GMT
I think he is getting confused with the tackle on Whatmore, which could have produced a yellow, BEFORE the first yellow he got. But you can argue that, if that yellow had been given, then the tackle on Fletcher which produced the first yellow would not have happened. In all of his career, Shawcross has only rarely been given two yellows. Like most players, he gets a yellow and then attempts to make sure he doesn't warrant another. And his second yellow on Saturday wasn't even a foul let alone a yellow. I can see why they don't allow appeals against a single yellow - it would be very time consuming if they did - but double yellows resulting in a red, should be reviewed in my opinion. I think that is all sound logic by you and numpty, John. Also, without getting too philosophical, if he had been cautioned for the first foul, the game would have stopped and then re-started in a completely different way, and therefore the tackle for what turned out to be his first yellow wouldn't have happened and neither would the second................but we have no way of knowing what would have happened instead That said, I don't know why people on here are often so unpleasant to each other Steakandchips was simply making the point that in his opinion Shawcross committed two yellow card offences and therefore cannot complain about his sending off, and you can see where he's coming from even if there is the flaw in the logic which you have pointed out. It doesn't merit the kind of patronising aggressive response it produced ( "are you for real" etc etc). Overall, although, having seen it on TV I think the 2nd caution was incorrect, I must say that IMHO it doesn't rank too high among the great injustices of football. I agree with your last sentence. It would be completely impractical to have an appeal mechanism for all cautions but IMHO there is a case for allowing appeals where 2 cautions result in a red and therefore an immediate suspension, but if that was brought in, no doubt some would say that it was inconsistent to allow that but not to allow an appeal against a 5th red before the deadline resulting in a suspension...... and so it goes on. Lines have to be drawn somewhere. I can see both sides of the argument on the questions of yellows, Malcolm. But I think it is incredibly unfair if, for example, a player has to miss a cup final or a playoff game, when he has been dismissed for two yellows if the second yellow is clearly wrong, but another player in the same match does have the right to appeal a straight red. It is a bit like that chap in the USA who was convicted years ago for a serious crime for which someone else (unconnected to him) subsequently confessed and was convicted. You'd think they'd just release the guy who has been in prison for years. But it has taken years to secure his release (after a plea from the judge at the first trial) and he still faces a retrial. Sometimes we are too keen to stick to the rules even when it is clear that those rules are producing a serious injustice. |
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Dec 1, 2015 11:54:54 GMT
I think that is all sound logic by you and numpty, John. Also, without getting too philosophical, if he had been cautioned for the first foul, the game would have stopped and then re-started in a completely different way, and therefore the tackle for what turned out to be his first yellow wouldn't have happened and neither would the second................but we have no way of knowing what would have happened instead That said, I don't know why people on here are often so unpleasant to each other Steakandchips was simply making the point that in his opinion Shawcross committed two yellow card offences and therefore cannot complain about his sending off, and you can see where he's coming from even if there is the flaw in the logic which you have pointed out. It doesn't merit the kind of patronising aggressive response it produced ( "are you for real" etc etc). Overall, although, having seen it on TV I think the 2nd caution was incorrect, I must say that IMHO it doesn't rank too high among the great injustices of football. I agree with your last sentence. It would be completely impractical to have an appeal mechanism for all cautions but IMHO there is a case for allowing appeals where 2 cautions result in a red and therefore an immediate suspension, but if that was brought in, no doubt some would say that it was inconsistent to allow that but not to allow an appeal against a 5th red before the deadline resulting in a suspension...... and so it goes on. Lines have to be drawn somewhere. I can see both sides of the argument on the questions of yellows, Malcolm. But I think it is incredibly unfair if, for example, a player has to miss a cup final or a playoff game, when he has been dismissed for two yellows if the second yellow is clearly wrong, but another player in the same match does have the right to appeal a straight red. It is a bit like that chap in the USA who was convicted years ago for a serious crime for which someone else (unconnected to him) subsequently confessed and was convicted. You'd think they'd just release the guy who has been in prison for years. But it has taken years to secure his release (after a plea from the judge at the first trial) and he still faces a retrial. Sometimes we are too keen to stick to the rules even when it is clear that those rules are producing a serious injustice. Indeed. You've now provoked me into raising this with the FRA ( Football Regulatory Authority) at the FA  . I will let you know the outcome (don't hold your breath ! ) Don't get me started on the American justice system  |
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Post by darius on Dec 1, 2015 12:34:59 GMT
Can't believe there's such uproar on this. Whatever way you look at it, Ryan made 2 yellow card deserving tackles in that game. He got 2 yellow cards. Accept it and move on. Oh no he didn't He got away with blatant thuggery trying to take Watmore out in the first half when Watmore rode the assault and advantage was played. If he had went down, credit to him for not, Shawcross was off |
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Post by BraveSirRobin on Dec 1, 2015 12:39:42 GMT
He got away with blatant thuggery trying to take Watmore out in the first half when Watmore rode the assault and advantage was played. If he had went down, credit to him for not, Shawcross was off Well that was a load of bollocks. |
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Post by Bick on Dec 1, 2015 12:41:26 GMT
While his second yellow was questionable, Ryan, having had a booking shouldn't be making those type of tackles and risking getting sent off. He is a captain and a long serving premier league CB, he should know better.
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Post by Davef on Dec 1, 2015 12:44:14 GMT
While his second yellow was questionable, Ryan, having had a booking shouldn't be making those type of tackles and risking getting sent off. He is a captain and a long serving premier league CB, he should know better. So he just lets the player go through and have a free shot at goal then? |
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Post by darius on Dec 1, 2015 12:45:04 GMT
He got away with blatant thuggery trying to take Watmore out in the first half when Watmore rode the assault and advantage was played. If he had went down, credit to him for not, Shawcross was off Well that was a load of bollocks. Have you seen it? Obviously not. |
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Post by Davef on Dec 1, 2015 12:47:25 GMT
Well that was a load of bollocks. Have you seen it? Obviously not. What did you make of Dean's decision to not even have a word with Larsson after he took Bojan clean out on the touchline? |
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Post by StoKeith on Dec 1, 2015 12:48:34 GMT
I guess they don't allow appeals for yellow cards as they would be overrun with appeals every week. However, a simple solution to this is to allow appeals on yellow cards when 2 were given leading to a red card (either yellow, not just the second one). Also, when a player accrues 5 yellow cards leading to a ban, the team should be able to select any questionable yellow cards to appeal.
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Steakandchips was simply making the point that in his opinion Shawcross committed two yellow card offences and therefore cannot complain about his sending off, and you can see where he's coming from even if there is the flaw in the logic which you have pointed out. It doesn't merit the kind of patronising aggressive response it produced ( "are you for real" etc etc).
. I will let you know the outcome (don't hold your breath ! ) 
