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Post by GeneralFaye on Dec 15, 2015 14:10:05 GMT
We'll get BIG money for Butland, don't worry about that.
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Post by bringmesunshine on Dec 15, 2015 14:10:56 GMT
If a bid of 15m for Arnie comes in and he's stalling on a new contract, do you sell him? Yes, in 12mths he's worth a fraction of that 15m, cash in now or lose him for a lot less later. I just don't understand why people think we sold Bego and Zonz too cheaply, if we still had them now approaching the Jan window they would be worth nothing with only 6mths left on their contracts, some people just don’t understand that it’s not just the quality of the player that decides the transfer fee it’s the remaining length of the contract that’s the driver. We got 15m for two players who, if still at stoke would be able to walk away for nothing in may, 15m last summer or nothing in May, I know which one I think represents better value.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Dec 15, 2015 14:11:59 GMT
As for Yarmolenko, we've missed the boat on that one. He's the key player for a team that's just reached the Champions League knockout stages, he won't want to give that up.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 15, 2015 14:12:08 GMT
If they do want to leave we have to sell them for as much as we can though and then reinvest. And fans have got to accept it as the way we're going. Even with Shaq, I think the aim will be to make a profit on the fee. Very true. We are stoke after all. I'm under no illusions there however we also pay these blokes very good money and there are probably quite a lot of top sides around europe who can't pay what we do. The biggest threat could come from clubs in our own league I would say. Your liverpools etc. The grass isn't always greener though so I'd rather us tie em down. If we can. Oh definitely, I was banging on about a new contract for Arnie in the summer. I could easily see Arnie at Spurs.
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Post by unknown182 on Dec 15, 2015 14:30:54 GMT
If a bid of 15m for Arnie comes in and he's stalling on a new contract, do you sell him? Yes, in 12mths he's worth a fraction of that 15m, cash in now or lose him for a lot less later. I just don't understand why people think we sold Bego and Zonz too cheaply, if we still had them now approaching the Jan window they would be worth nothing with only 6mths left on their contracts, some people just don’t understand that it’s not just the quality of the player that decides the transfer fee it’s the remaining length of the contract that’s the driver. We got 15m for two players who, if still at stoke would be able to walk away for nothing in may, 15m last summer or nothing in May, I know which one I think represents better value. Making them sign new contracts is the best value.
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Post by PotterLog on Dec 15, 2015 14:35:32 GMT
I think Eric will sign asap seems so happy but my worry is Arnie got to admit if I was him I would see what interest came off the back of the Euros. Really hope he doesn't but I can see it happening The way Eric's going I can see that happening with him an all!
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Post by petemac on Dec 15, 2015 14:44:07 GMT
The way the Prem is at the moment it allows clubs like Stoke to compete for players that will make us a much better place to be. We are a club on the up and these boys know it.
It's only a matter of time before we win a cup and hit the Europa league stage. I'm quite confident these players will stay with the MH project.
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Post by kustokie on Dec 15, 2015 15:00:42 GMT
Yes, in 12mths he's worth a fraction of that 15m, cash in now or lose him for a lot less later. I just don't understand why people think we sold Bego and Zonz too cheaply, if we still had them now approaching the Jan window they would be worth nothing with only 6mths left on their contracts, some people just don’t understand that it’s not just the quality of the player that decides the transfer fee it’s the remaining length of the contract that’s the driver. We got 15m for two players who, if still at stoke would be able to walk away for nothing in may, 15m last summer or nothing in May, I know which one I think represents better value. Making them sign new contracts is the best value. Can't make them sign a new contract. However I do agree having them sign an extension increases their value. This is going to depend on their priorities - money or job satisfaction? They'll get more money and more visibility if they leave for a "bigger" club but the trade off is fighting for a place and being rotated vesus almost guaranteed to start (not sure how fan appreciation plays into this, but I bet appreciation by the Manager goes a long way - would you like to work for Hughes or Ranieri or work for LVG, or Mourinho. Say what you like about Fergie but he was genius at managing people as well as being a brilliant coach). I know what I'd choose but I'm 60 years old. I expect I would think differently if I were still 25.
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Post by followyoudown on Dec 15, 2015 15:08:46 GMT
I'm sure there was a story in one of the nationals at the weekend where Arnie was quoted as saying he'll talk to the club about a new contract and not the papers, don't know if that was a dig at anyone else in the squad who recently signed a new contract With Arnie just like Bojan and Shaqiri it is clear they will eventually take the step back up if a decent champions league club comes calling so i'd imagine for him to sign a new contract it'll come down to release clauses \ gentleman's agreement over us letting him go if such an offer comes in.
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Post by bringmesunshine on Dec 15, 2015 15:12:10 GMT
Yes, in 12mths he's worth a fraction of that 15m, cash in now or lose him for a lot less later. I just don't understand why people think we sold Bego and Zonz too cheaply, if we still had them now approaching the Jan window they would be worth nothing with only 6mths left on their contracts, some people just don’t understand that it’s not just the quality of the player that decides the transfer fee it’s the remaining length of the contract that’s the driver. We got 15m for two players who, if still at stoke would be able to walk away for nothing in may, 15m last summer or nothing in May, I know which one I think represents better value. Making them sign new contracts is the best value. Of course and if I had a wish it would be for both to sign 3 yr extensions, they not only read each other’s games very well, they’re brilliant at interchanging going forward as well as back and they’re both amongst the outstanding performers so far this season.
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Post by foster on Dec 15, 2015 15:18:00 GMT
15m is about as good as it'll get for any of our players. Of course if he refuses to sign and could go for free after a year then it would make sense to sell him. Hopefully it won't come to that though and he'll sign soon. That is small time thinking, we have players worth way more than that. As oppose to stupid thinking? Maybe only Butland could fetch more. Only half way through the season and we're not as fashionable as the big clubs. We wouldn't get offered more.
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Post by lastoftheldk on Dec 15, 2015 15:26:20 GMT
Arnie is the best player we have
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Post by salopstick on Dec 15, 2015 16:03:28 GMT
Arnie is the best player we have It would be easy and crass to say when he wants to and it would be unfair. On the 20th anniversary of bosman it's important to remember that you cash in on a player at the right time. That time can be when they are stalling over a new deal.
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Post by roostershair on Dec 15, 2015 17:59:49 GMT
Erik and Arnie. "Bring me sunshine"
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Post by potterglen on Dec 15, 2015 18:13:21 GMT
I think Eric will sign asap seems so happy but my worry is Arnie got to admit if I was him I would see what interest came off the back of the Euros. Really hope he doesn't but I can see it happening Arnie has to be managed and I'm not sure many PL managers could be arsed.
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Post by clarkeda on Dec 15, 2015 18:33:43 GMT
If a bid of 15m for Arnie comes in and he's stalling on a new contract, do you sell him? Depends, if Hughes is given the money to sign a suitable replacement then yes. And I love arnie but 15m would be hard to turn down.
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Post by kustokie on Dec 15, 2015 18:47:08 GMT
Arnie is the best player we have It would be easy and crass to say when he wants to and it would be unfair. On the 20th anniversary of bosman it's important to remember that you cash in on a player at the right time. That time can be when they are stalling over a new deal. I am struggling to understand this "cash in" thing Several clubs like Spuds selling Bale have lived to regret it Sellng an asset and not plan to reinvest the cash is a recipe for disaster.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 15, 2015 18:54:34 GMT
If a bid of 15m for Arnie comes in and he's stalling on a new contract, do you sell him? Depends, if Hughes is given the money to sign a suitable replacement then yes. And I love arnie but 15m would be hard to turn down. I agree. I'd love for him to sign a new deal but I just have a feeling he won't. And if he doesn't we've got to get as much as we can and go again. Which is shit but that's what our transfer policy is imo set up to do.
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Post by salopstick on Dec 15, 2015 19:13:23 GMT
It would be easy and crass to say when he wants to and it would be unfair. On the 20th anniversary of bosman it's important to remember that you cash in on a player at the right time. That time can be when they are stalling over a new deal. I am struggling to understand this "cash in" thing Several clubs like Spuds selling Bale have lived to regret it Sellng an asset and not plan to reinvest the cash is a recipe for disaster. Selling an asset at the right time, ie before his contract runs down is good finance sense and it's not always good for the dressing room to have a player there who wants to go Reinvesting the money gained is a totally different subject.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 15, 2015 19:18:21 GMT
If a bid of 15m for Arnie comes in and he's stalling on a new contract, do you sell him? Yes, in 12mths he's worth a fraction of that 15m, cash in now or lose him for a lot less later. I just don't understand why people think we sold Bego and Zonz too cheaply, if we still had them now approaching the Jan window they would be worth nothing with only 6mths left on their contracts, some people just don’t understand that it’s not just the quality of the player that decides the transfer fee it’s the remaining length of the contract that’s the driver. We got 15m for two players who, if still at stoke would be able to walk away for nothing in may, 15m last summer or nothing in May, I know which one I think represents better value. We sold them cheaply to their actual worth. If we had planned it we probably should have doubled what got. That planning involves protecting the asset with a contract so the value remains. It is better than nothing but we still sold cheaply. Another one in the eye for the CEO.
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Post by bringmesunshine on Dec 16, 2015 8:33:21 GMT
Yes, in 12mths he's worth a fraction of that 15m, cash in now or lose him for a lot less later. I just don't understand why people think we sold Bego and Zonz too cheaply, if we still had them now approaching the Jan window they would be worth nothing with only 6mths left on their contracts, some people just don’t understand that it’s not just the quality of the player that decides the transfer fee it’s the remaining length of the contract that’s the driver. We got 15m for two players who, if still at stoke would be able to walk away for nothing in may, 15m last summer or nothing in May, I know which one I think represents better value. We sold them cheaply to their actual worth. If we had planned it we probably should have doubled what got. That planning involves protecting the asset with a contract so the value remains. It is better than nothing but we still sold cheaply. Another one in the eye for the CEO. That’s precisely the point I’m trying to make but if you’ve got a serial offender like Zonz there was no way of tying him down to a longer contract when he or his father wanted to go to a “bigger club” and as for Bego yes TS dropped the ball there but the plan as far as I’m aware was always for Butland to step up this season.
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Post by foster on Dec 16, 2015 8:46:33 GMT
People here are assuming that the clubs that purchased Beggo and Zonzi would still have done so had their fees been higher (been on longer contracts). That's in most probability not the case. I don't recall seeing much competition for their signatures either.
Zonzi - We tried to keep him. He wasn't interested. Hands were tied. No choice but to sell him.
Beggo - Had we kept Beggo then Butland wouldn't be playing for the 1st team and likely be looking for a move after being sent out on loan again. Butlands value has surely sky rocketed and he has outperformed the Beggo of last season. Beggo didn't go for much, but the loss in his transfer fee has been offset by the benefit of playing Butland and his rising profile / value.
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Post by bringmesunshine on Dec 16, 2015 8:52:34 GMT
People here are assuming that the clubs that purchased Beggo and Zonzi would still have done so had their fees been higher (been on longer contracts). That's in most probability not the case. I don't recall seeing much competition for their signatures either. Zonzi - We tried to keep him. He wasn't interested. Hands were tied. No choice but to sell him. Beggo - Had we kept Beggo then Butland wouldn't be playing for the 1st team and likely be looking for a move after being sent out on loan again. Butlands value has surely sky rocketed and he has outperformed the Beggo of last season. Beggo didn't go for much, but the loss in his transfer fee has been offset by the benefit of playing Butland and his rising profile / value. Totally agree apart from Bego not going for much, 8m with a year left on his contract I think is good business.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 16, 2015 9:06:59 GMT
It could be argued that N'zonzi was worth more than we got for him, at least to us.
We did well on Begovic. His form had gone, we had a better keeper sitting on the bench so all in all, the Begovic deal was a very good one.
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Post by pyrus on Dec 16, 2015 9:55:23 GMT
We've had Arnie for three seasons now. In the first two he blew hot and cold, eventually putting 90 minutes together towards the end of the season. This year he has been on it from the start. If we lose him, it will feel like we have not yet had a complete on field return on our investment and he will leave probably having benefitted more from our reinvention of him than we have from his work.
Not that any of this makes a difference in contract negotiations, I just feel that on balance we are owed another complete season after this one before we have had our money's worth and he has maximised his transfer value. I will feel a little robbed if he bails out after this season.
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Post by gonk on Dec 16, 2015 17:41:13 GMT
Just been on Goupon and they are selling these on there.Reminds me on fools and horses when they where floging those clip on pony tails. . Attachment Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2015 18:01:53 GMT
So hipster, it hurts.
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Post by Pugsley on Dec 16, 2015 18:12:46 GMT
Why is it that SCFC have to give away their players? N'Zonzi was given away at £8million. A steal.
Come back with £20million and I might take it seriously.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Dec 16, 2015 18:44:54 GMT
Big news about his arachnophobia, H&J on Tokesport today.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Dec 16, 2015 19:36:30 GMT
Why is it that SCFC have to give away their players? N'Zonzi was given away at £8million. A steal. Come back with £20million and I might take it seriously. 8mil was what he was worth given his contract.
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