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Post by cheekymatt71 on Oct 13, 2015 6:24:33 GMT
Like I said on a previous thread, Arnie has just seen Nzonzi & Begovic leaving for champions league football and a big pay increase.
If I was his agent I would be telling him to sit tight and dont sign anything right now. I can see maybe a German or Turkish club coming in for him and offer him Champions League on a big wedge when his contract expires.
And if that happens Im sorry to say he will be off like a rat up a drainpipe.
Its modern football Im afraid
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Post by ukcstokie on Oct 13, 2015 7:17:52 GMT
Like I said on a previous thread, Arnie has just seen Nzonzi & Begovic leaving for champions league football and a big pay increase. If I was his agent I would be telling him to sit tight and dont sign anything right now. I can see maybe a German or Turkish club coming in for him and offer him Champions League on a big wedge when his contract expires. And if that happens Im sorry to say he will be off like a rat up a drainpipe. Its modern football Im afraid With the TV deal from next season will any German club (Bayern apart) or any Turkish club be able to live with us in terms of wages? If he did sign an improved contract now, it won't be long until Arnie's form will dip - you can just anticipate the reaction on here. I just don't get the beating the club and management team up over Nzonzi and Bego's contracts. We offered them deals early. We persisted but it was clear they weren't going to sign. So we sold them for the best price that was on offer. Not mismanagement. Not neglect. Just players moving on.
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Post by lordb on Oct 13, 2015 8:45:07 GMT
Like I said on a previous thread, Arnie has just seen Nzonzi & Begovic leaving for champions league football and a big pay increase. If I was his agent I would be telling him to sit tight and dont sign anything right now. I can see maybe a German or Turkish club coming in for him and offer him Champions League on a big wedge when his contract expires. And if that happens Im sorry to say he will be off like a rat up a drainpipe. Its modern football Im afraid With the TV deal from next season will any German club (Bayern apart) or any Turkish club be able to live with us in terms of wages? If he did sign an improved contract now, it won't be long until Arnie's form will dip - you can just anticipate the reaction on here. I just don't get the beating the club and management team up over Nzonzi and Bego's contracts. We offered them deals early. We persisted but it was clear they weren't going to sign. So we sold them for the best price that was on offer. Not mismanagement. Not neglect. Just players moving on. The only thing with Nzonzi is,unlike Begovic,we didn't have an obvious replacement. As such I would have kept him & risked letting him go on a free next summer. The fee we got wsn't worth it. Yes he would have moaned & sulked - but he did that anyway
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 13, 2015 11:37:01 GMT
I disagree. He's 26, had 2 years left and has been a good if inconsistent player for us with the potential for better. That is always worth a new deal when there's only 2 years left and anything after that means your assets aren't adequately protected. You'd expect a bean counter like Scholes to realise that. You disagree that many on the Oatcake didn't rate Arnie before this purple patch? You do actually read this board rather than posting on it? I've rated Arnie pretty much from day one. But I'd guess he's on £30k/week at the moment. A 4 year contract would need to be on say £45k/week plus. So that's a £9 million plus contract. The club don't just give those away without proper consideration. The it's not a given bit, I think it should have been a given that he was offered a contract.
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Post by agingerstokie on Oct 13, 2015 11:43:45 GMT
I would imagine he's on more than 30k probably more akin to 40k and a new contract would probably in the 50s to bring him in line with Diouf and Shaqiri?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2015 11:46:51 GMT
We sell him for cheap and have learnt nothing from the Nzonzi deal You can't make people sign deals.Nzonzi has been wanting to leave for years.Stop being so fucking naive. Chill
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Post by Gary Hackett on Oct 13, 2015 13:08:02 GMT
Maybe they are frightened if he gets a big lucrative contract he'll take his foot off the gas again and we can't afford that until the new players have bedded in properly.
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Post by FullerMagic on Oct 13, 2015 13:49:42 GMT
linkKoller calls : "Stoke is not to be the last stop" Emblematic of the upward trend of the national team on Monday was the strong performance by Marko Arnautovic. "Liechtenstein is not the scale to be defined as a top player. But he pointed out," Koller said of the England-legionnaire. Now the winger must show more consistency. "Stoke is not to be the last stop," demanded the coach.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2015 13:50:07 GMT
You can't make people sign deals.Nzonzi has been wanting to leave for years.Stop being so fucking naive. Chill he's right though despite the fact that he (N'Zonzi) himself said he wanted to move on and play at a higher level and the fact we'd offered him a new deal on many occasions that HE turned down, you still constantly ignore all of that and slag off Stoke for it for some reason. it's fair enough slagging them off for certain things but when you just ignore facts in order to have a go, it gets bloody tiresome and does nothing but highlight your agenda and idiocy
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Post by KevinWhimper on Oct 13, 2015 14:30:53 GMT
linkKoller calls : "Stoke is not to be the last stop" Emblematic of the upward trend of the national team on Monday was the strong performance by Marko Arnautovic. "Liechtenstein is not the scale to be defined as a top player. But he pointed out," Koller said of the England-legionnaire. Now the winger must show more consistency. "Stoke is not to be the last stop," demanded the coach. Let's get him tied down and if this is the case get a shit load of money for him at least.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Oct 13, 2015 14:40:23 GMT
Like I said on a previous thread, Arnie has just seen Nzonzi & Begovic leaving for champions league football and a big pay increase. If I was his agent I would be telling him to sit tight and dont sign anything right now. I can see maybe a German or Turkish club coming in for him and offer him Champions League on a big wedge when his contract expires. And if that happens Im sorry to say he will be off like a rat up a drainpipe. Its modern football Im afraid So we're fucked, then?
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Oct 13, 2015 14:56:31 GMT
Like I said on a previous thread, Arnie has just seen Nzonzi & Begovic leaving for champions league football and a big pay increase. If I was his agent I would be telling him to sit tight and dont sign anything right now. I can see maybe a German or Turkish club coming in for him and offer him Champions League on a big wedge when his contract expires. And if that happens Im sorry to say he will be off like a rat up a drainpipe. Its modern football Im afraid So we're fucked, then? Aye But look on the positive side if we are becoming a good stepping stone to players that want to reach the very top. Southampton & Swansea are in the same position. We are going to have to start getting used to it (unless we suddenly start qualifying for Europe)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2015 15:08:25 GMT
Aye But look on the positive side if we are becoming a good stepping stone to players that want to reach the very top. Southampton & Swansea are in the same position. We are going to have to start getting used to it (unless we suddenly start qualifying for Europe) spot on mate!!! we're unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you look at it) in that bracket of clubs who players see as a stepping stone in their career, nothing more (it's the reason Bojan, Shaqiri, Arnie, Diouf all came here, none of them saw Stoke come calling and thought "Sign me the fuck up if it's the Mighty Potters mate!"). we're a good shop window for them to enable them to move onto bigger things as, because of our relative success over the last couple of years, our players will be noticed more than when we first came up. no-one can force a player to sign an extension so for clubs like us, this kind of thing will become more and more frequent and we just have to hope we can find suitable replacements of comparable quality when they move on. it's pretty much the reason why some clubs (like Newcastle) can do well one year in the Prem and then do shit for a couple; they get decent players in, those players do well but then move onto bigger clubs leaving the club without the quality they had and having to spend a year or two trying to replace that quality so many mid-table clubs can yo-yo up and down the league every other year. Everton have spent the last 15 years having to put up with it and have done a pretty damn good job of it! as you say, the advantage is that as long as we get that quality for a year or two then it's good for us. no way can we hope to hold onto any of those players though at the moment, jut isn't realisitic. if Bojan had stayed fit all year last season he'd have gone in the summer. not the club's fault or the player's "fault", they just have ambition and want to play as high up the ladder as they can. i desperately hope we do offer Arnie a decent contract (and can't see anyway that the club won't do so) but if he doesn't sign it, there's the square root of fuck all we can do about it but benefit from his talent until someone else take him; also have to remember that if these players want that step up and therefore refuse to sign that contract, they still have to play consistently well (for us!!!) for the remainder or they just won't get that move anyway so it's not as if they'll just give up and rest on their laurels thinking "Sod it, i'll be off in 18 months anyway"
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2015 16:10:12 GMT
he's right though despite the fact that he (N'Zonzi) himself said he wanted to move on and play at a higher level and the fact we'd offered him a new deal on many occasions that HE turned down, you still constantly ignore all of that and slag off Stoke for it for some reason. it's fair enough slagging them off for certain things but when you just ignore facts in order to have a go, it gets bloody tiresome and does nothing but highlight your agenda and idiocy Jesus , your like a spring loaded toy, easy to wind up
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2015 16:13:56 GMT
he's right though despite the fact that he (N'Zonzi) himself said he wanted to move on and play at a higher level and the fact we'd offered him a new deal on many occasions that HE turned down, you still constantly ignore all of that and slag off Stoke for it for some reason. it's fair enough slagging them off for certain things but when you just ignore facts in order to have a go, it gets bloody tiresome and does nothing but highlight your agenda and idiocy Jesus , your like a spring loaded toy, easy to wind up backtrack alert!!!!!
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Post by chiswickpotter on Oct 13, 2015 16:18:03 GMT
Aye But look on the positive side if we are becoming a good stepping stone to players that want to reach the very top. Southampton & Swansea are in the same position. We are going to have to start getting used to it (unless we suddenly start qualifying for Europe) spot on mate!!! we're unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you look at it) in that bracket of clubs who players see as a stepping stone in their career, nothing more (it's the reason Bojan, Shaqiri, Arnie, Diouf all came here, none of them saw Stoke come calling and thought "Sign me the fuck up if it's the Mighty Potters mate!"). we're a good shop window for them to enable them to move onto bigger things as, because of our relative success over the last couple of years, our players will be noticed more than when we first came up. no-one can force a player to sign an extension so for clubs like us, this kind of thing will become more and more frequent and we just have to hope we can find suitable replacements of comparable quality when they move on. it's pretty much the reason why some clubs (like Newcastle) can do well one year in the Prem and then do shit for a couple; they get decent players in, those players do well but then move onto bigger clubs leaving the club without the quality they had and having to spend a year or two trying to replace that quality so many mid-table clubs can yo-yo up and down the league every other year. Everton have spent the last 15 years having to put up with it and have done a pretty damn good job of it! as you say, the advantage is that as long as we get that quality for a year or two then it's good for us. no way can we hope to hold onto any of those players though at the moment, jut isn't realisitic. if Bojan had stayed fit all year last season he'd have gone in the summer. not the club's fault or the player's "fault", they just have ambition and want to play as high up the ladder as they can. i desperately hope we do offer Arnie a decent contract (and can't see anyway that the club won't do so) but if he doesn't sign it, there's the square root of fuck all we can do about it but benefit from his talent until someone else take him; also have to remember that if these players want that step up and therefore refuse to sign that contract, they still have to play consistently well (for us!!!) for the remainder or they just won't get that move anyway so it's not as if they'll just give up and rest on their laurels thinking "Sod it, i'll be off in 18 months anyway" End of alst season in which Arnie had been average we were thinking we needed to upgrade, hence our summer pursuit of Yarmo, Kono etc. Arnie was probably unhappy with his game time and the fact we were chasing others. hard to see what contract offer would have been made and how it would have been accepted. Now we want him but he can see options, anything could happen but good chance he will be sold this summer if his form continues - that's the world we operate in
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2015 16:18:15 GMT
Jesus , your like a spring loaded toy, easy to wind up backtrack alert!!!!! I don't see how this is back tracking but if it makes you relax then I'll agree with you
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2015 16:20:46 GMT
backtrack alert!!!!! I don't see how this is back tracking but if it makes you relax then I'll agree with you well there's 2 people now who have pointed out what a stupid post you came up with and you haven't bothered to actually answer either of them, just resorted to silly glib remarks...id say that's backtracking in the full knowledge that you're talking shit
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Post by upthefud on Oct 14, 2015 2:13:13 GMT
Bayern stop sucking yourself off, it's a bit feeble. We've all called things right and wrong.
As it stands I'd offer Arnie a new and improved contract instantly, but given his lack of form over the last two seasons I'd have been happy to simply get our money back in the summer. That's football, things change.
If he signed in the summer and continued to be so unreliable then it'd look like poor business (I know many will disagree with me but so be it), it's not as if there was a host of clubs after him was it?
Hopefully a deal will be on the table well before Christmas time.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2015 5:14:30 GMT
I've got to admit, he's playing as tho he wants a move.
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Post by harryburrows on Oct 14, 2015 5:34:57 GMT
I've got to admit, he's playing as tho he wants a move. A bit cynical mate even by your standards
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2015 6:08:15 GMT
If true, I'm staggered that Stoke didn't take steps towards a contract extension last summer. Arnie's contract was discussed on here, we knew he was the potential Begovic/N'Zonzi of next summer.
I hope I'm wrong but I can't see a contract agreement being reached now, especially with the form he's in. He'll want to assess his options in the summer. If we do enter negotiations now, and they don't go as planned, we risk a dip in form too.
I don't blame the club for N'Zonzi or Begovic, but if we've twiddled our thumbs and reached this point without contract discussions, they deserve questions to be asked of them this time. That said, you do sense that contract negotiations might be futile, Arnie seems very happy but you have to accept that he might see himself at another club as he reaches his peak years.
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Post by scfcno1fan on Oct 14, 2015 6:54:40 GMT
He'll leave.
We have to get used to the fact that our big players will invariably want to leave at some point.
It's about effectively replacing them that is important.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2015 7:02:01 GMT
I've got to admit, he's playing as tho he wants a move. A bit cynical mate even by your standards I'm not knocking him mate, I'd do the same if I had his talents
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2015 7:10:03 GMT
He'll leave. We have to get used to the fact that our big players will invariably want to leave at some point. It's about effectively replacing them that is important. How do you propose we do that when every season our manager is being asked to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear with a ridiculously low net spend? 21M spent this summer, 18M received. 600k spent last summer, 2.6M received 5M spent first summer, 0 received Total of 26.6M spent, 20.6M received I'm all for being clever and cute but at a time when TV money is increasing hand over fist... come on!
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Post by scfcno1fan on Oct 14, 2015 7:12:45 GMT
He'll leave. We have to get used to the fact that our big players will invariably want to leave at some point. It's about effectively replacing them that is important. How do you propose we do that when every season our manager is being asked to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear with a ridiculously low net spend? 21M spent this summer, 18M received. 600k spent last summer, 2.6M received 5M spent first summer, 0 received Total of 26.6M spent, 20.6M received I'm all for being clever and cute but at a time when TV money is increasing hand over fist... but come on! I didn't say I had the answers.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2015 7:13:37 GMT
How do you propose we do that when every season our manager is being asked to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear with a ridiculously low net spend? 21M spent this summer, 18M received. 600k spent last summer, 2.6M received 5M spent first summer, 0 received Total of 26.6M spent, 20.6M received I'm all for being clever and cute but at a time when TV money is increasing hand over fist... but come on! I didn't say I had the answers. Fair enough!
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Post by jeycov on Oct 14, 2015 7:24:47 GMT
We've also bought some younger players who may not be too far away from the first team squad. Add that to the role of our academy players ( this takes a few years to see the end results ) then this is the way forward.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2015 7:33:46 GMT
He'll leave. We have to get used to the fact that our big players will invariably want to leave at some point. It's about effectively replacing them that is important. How do you propose we do that when every season our manager is being asked to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear with a ridiculously low net spend? 21M spent this summer, 18M received. 600k spent last summer, 2.6M received 5M spent first summer, 0 received Total of 26.6M spent, 20.6M received I'm all for being clever and cute but at a time when TV money is increasing hand over fist... come on! And with that, the team keeps improving and we are more successful each year, sounds like a sensible and sustainable way to run a business. That said, losing Arnie for nothing in a few years would be a big loss, hopefully we tie him to a longer deal in January.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2015 7:46:45 GMT
How do you propose we do that when every season our manager is being asked to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear with a ridiculously low net spend? 21M spent this summer, 18M received. 600k spent last summer, 2.6M received 5M spent first summer, 0 received Total of 26.6M spent, 20.6M received I'm all for being clever and cute but at a time when TV money is increasing hand over fist... come on! And with that, the team keeps improving and we are more successful each year, sounds like a sensible and sustainable way to run a business. That said, losing Arnie for nothing in a few years would be a big loss, hopefully we tie him to a longer deal in January. It's a fine line between running it sensible and penny pinching. Get the balance wrong and you could regret it for a long time. Like I said, I'm all for being clever and cute but you can, and some clubs have, pushed it too far.
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