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The NHS
Oct 10, 2015 10:59:58 GMT
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Post by Billy the kid on Oct 10, 2015 10:59:58 GMT
What a sad state of affairs we are in when the pubic follow the right wing mantra and bash the NHS. We are all stake holders in the NHS and its very sad that it is used as a political pawn. The NHS was set up to protect us all and the constitution means that it is free at the point of access. The reasons that it is beong portrayed as failing is that so your big business chums of the leading MPs can buy it off bit by bit on the cheap with the full backing of the layman general pubic. Is the NHS in its current carnation failing? A little, is it fit for purpous? Not with the current direction politics is taking it. Is it underfunded? Like every public sector - absolutley. The answer is simple, increase funding via taxes (and not to pay staff more) but to provide more staff/equipment and services. Its a joke, the numbers of x billion this y billion that the truth is its being killed by under investment/sly privitisation. Some members of the public also abuse the system, i jave seen time and again crutches and such things for sale on facebook but all this costs a fortune. We are all stakeholders in the NHS and we should all be trting to protect it. Once its gone its gone forever, i have a friend in Ameriaca he has to pat $40 just to get an appointment with a dr, does he get ant better care or quicker? No not at all. Take a look at the French model, nearly 40% of earnings are taken back in the form of taxes, but tax is unpopular so this will never happen, welcome to generation im alright jack. Ok, so people who use the NHS as health tourists cost around 1.8 bn a year. If anyone questions this they are put down by the very same people who complain when the NHS struggles finacially. You cant have it both ways and its ok to call those who oppose it right wingers but those who back it and object to anyone pulling the government up about it are simply using a left wing mantra. Theres no common sense in any form of public service any more. Every waste of money fucks up the system whatever it is and these health tourists are the ones stealing from all of us. Those that use retirement to get a fat pay off and then get employed again a short time after are stealing from us. As for Privatisation, thats been creeping in for years and its not unique to one political mantra. Its not just the NHS. Any body that gets funded by compulsory taxation, whether it be local authorities, the civil service or even the BBC have no priorities for the services they are being paid to provide. They get this wad of cash every year guaranteed and so its able to waste it as next year another fat cheque will come through the post. Have you any recent examples of peopel being payed off and re-employed? I know it did happen and indeed i work with one now, but gone are then days. I dont think this the fault of any one government but it is that of sucessive governments throughout the last 2 decades. Health tourists are just one drain on the system, but not the only one. I have a breakdown of where money was taken out of the system and i will try and upload it when im back from work on monday. But my point still reamins the biggest single problen with the NHS is under investment. Its a double whammy, we have an aging population, placing more strain on the system, people are living longer and facing more complex health and social care needs and a media/policltical movement trying to cut costs. In real terms the sound bites of delivering more for less, would be delivering the same level of service for more people. Innovation and good will can only get you so far.
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Post by desman2 on Oct 10, 2015 11:15:17 GMT
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The NHS
Oct 10, 2015 11:26:58 GMT
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Post by Billy the kid on Oct 10, 2015 11:26:58 GMT
The only think I can say to that is they are now the exception and are certainly not the norm. And yes they should have made provision years ago in the knowledge that we have an aging population. Indirectly however i suspect that Thatchers right to buy was motivated somewhat by this.
The point still remains that under investment and sly privitisation are now biting.
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Post by desman2 on Oct 10, 2015 11:36:31 GMT
The only think I can say to that is they are now the exception and are certainly not the norm. And yes they should have made provision years ago in the knowledge that we have an aging population. Indirectly however i suspect that Thatchers right to buy was motivated somewhat by this. The point still remains that under investment and sly privitisation are now biting. The pay offs have equated to over 1.6bn since 2010. Would have bought alot of paracetomols that would.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 10, 2015 13:48:41 GMT
A short extract from the Morning Star : The European round table of industrialists = (ERT) The ERT’s “vision for a competitive Europe in 2025,” among many other objectives, includes a “greater emphasis on patients’ responsibility for healthcare costs” and more competition. In other words, privatisation of everything and crushing austerity. www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-67a2-How-the-EU-operates-lobbying#.VhkVxZ9wbqABut...the NHS is not sustainable in its present form...With massive increase in demand AND massive increase in expectations.
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Post by manmarking on Oct 11, 2015 9:00:46 GMT
Great post, owned him, bravo, can't argue with that, thumbs up. Oh no, wait a minute, it's complete drivel that makes literally no sense on any level. So very predictable Try again Thumbs down You can stick your thumbs wherever you like for all I care youth
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Post by boothenboy75 on Oct 11, 2015 10:20:04 GMT
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Post by jssandbach on Oct 11, 2015 11:35:01 GMT
So very predictable Try again Thumbs down You can stick your thumbs wherever you like for all I care youth Ahh...you do care really
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Post by ukcstokie on Oct 11, 2015 11:51:46 GMT
The first link is shocking. On over £200k year on a fixed term contract. He leaves and get's over £400k compensation. All funded by our tax money. Just why is it for 90% of the workforce when they leave their employer pays the minimum they're entitled to. The letter of their contract and not a penny more. Except a few at the top who get showered with money on top of their already bloated salaries.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2015 14:21:38 GMT
The reason the NHS dismiss with a pay off then re-engage is a direct consequence of Thatcherite economic policies. The NHS was broken up into smaller regional autonomous organisations in order to weaken the labour movement in line with the assault on unions and the public sector in the 1980s. Partly, it was to weaken pay bargaining, partly it was to limit industrial action to individual organisations, as subsequent strike action in neighbouring hospitals would consists of secondary action, which became unlawful.
Subsequently, with the NHS being a political football, the trusts are dissolved, reshaped, and reorganised practically weekly as governments find ways to privitise them by the back door, and the result is occasional huge pay offs for those that are on the most generous contracts, while the nurses and the like end up sucking it up while seeing long-term pay stagnation and bigger work loads. I suspect one of the reasons that the top bosses have such generous contracts is because no cunt wants to do the jobs, so the pay and benefits package reflects this. Often, I suspect the senior management don't even want to dismiss and pay off, but are forced to as yet another top down reorganisation is forced onto them, and they end up having to terminate one post at North Staffs PCT and create the same one at Stoke and North Staffs CCG. If the overriding employer was NHS England, then they wouldn't have to do it, as the job would be with the same employer.
Meanwhile, the plebs find ways to rationalise their hatred of the public sector and its workers, butressed by the red tops and for the ones that can read, The Telegraph.
Carry on blaming 'red tape' for the country's ills while concurrently begging further subjugation from your feudal lords.
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The NHS
Oct 11, 2015 14:29:27 GMT
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Post by stokeharry on Oct 11, 2015 14:29:27 GMT
Too many fuckers milking it that anner paid into it .
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Oct 11, 2015 14:34:55 GMT
The NHS should only be for people born in the UK (Or foreigners who've lived in, and contributed to, the UK for ten years)
It should only be for serious issues too. Anyone wanting nose jobs, hair transplants, tit implants etc... Have to go elsewhere & pay for it. (Unless it's something genuine, like for example someone born without a nose or whatever)
Anyone clogging up Hospitals with shit like a stubbed toe, a runny nose or a cut finger get fined £100 on the spot. Running up three such fines equals a year in prison. (Same applies to people who clogg up Doctors with the same shit)
The 'three strikes' rule also applies to dickheads who're in their for being pissed & fighting, or bellends who go climbing mountains & shit, or the dicks who do that 'tombstoning' bollocks etc...
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Post by britsabroad on Oct 12, 2015 6:18:11 GMT
The only think I can say to that is they are now the exception and are certainly not the norm. And yes they should have made provision years ago in the knowledge that we have an aging population. Indirectly however i suspect that Thatchers right to buy was motivated somewhat by this. The point still remains that under investment and sly privitisation are now biting. Under investment?! Pull the other one. The NHS is the most ridiculously overfunded organisation in the world. The problem is what they do with all the money theyre given. Its an incredibly inefficient organisation, in large part down to how the budgeting process works. Each department gets a sum of money per year, and if you dont spend it all instead of being praised for saving money you just receive less next year. When i worked with the NHS they were scraping around for things to spend/waste money on in the last few weeks of every financial year. They get more than enough money already if they employed anyone half competent in non clinical positions.
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The NHS
Oct 12, 2015 7:02:11 GMT
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Post by Billy the kid on Oct 12, 2015 7:02:11 GMT
The only think I can say to that is they are now the exception and are certainly not the norm. And yes they should have made provision years ago in the knowledge that we have an aging population. Indirectly however i suspect that Thatchers right to buy was motivated somewhat by this. The point still remains that under investment and sly privitisation are now biting. Under investment?! Pull the other one. The NHS is the most ridiculously overfunded organisation in the world. The problem is what they do with all the money theyre given. Its an incredibly inefficient organisation, in large part down to how the budgeting process works. Each department gets a sum of money per year, and if you dont spend it all instead of being praised for saving money you just receive less next year. When i worked with the NHS they were scraping around for things to spend/waste money on in the last few weeks of every financial year. They get more than enough money already if they employed anyone half competent in non clinical positions. Ah the good old noughties, Things have really changed since those days, the picture now is that the service has been cut to the bones of its arse, at a tipping point where its actually becoming dangerous.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 7:42:33 GMT
There have been many good points and arguments made on this thread as to the state of the NHS. In my experience I don't agree with a two tier health service based on how wealthy a person is . In essence , I don't agree with BUPA at all . This has nothing to do with preventing people from spending their money haw they want to , but more about poorer ones not having the choice .
I also think given the crisis the NHS now faces , we should be focused on how the money is spent . For example there are clear examples of foreigners using the A&E in a way that it was not designed and in many cases ' health tourism ' . I would therefore have no problem in forcing everyone who needs to use A&E a £50 charge at the point of admission . This should include both the young and old regardless . I think there are far too many examples of its service being abused which I have seen myself . Kids brought in with minors scratches and slight bruising that don't warrant even an examination .
Harsh choices will soon have to be made , All the money raised should go directly back into training and the NHS itself .
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The NHS
Oct 12, 2015 7:58:38 GMT
via mobile
Post by Billy the kid on Oct 12, 2015 7:58:38 GMT
There have been many good points and arguments made on this thread as to the state of the NHS. In my experience I don't agree with a two tier health service based on how wealthy a person is . In essence , I don't agree with BUPA at all . This has nothing to do with preventing people from spending their money haw they want to , but more about poorer ones not having the choice . I also think given the crisis the NHS now faces , we should be focused on how the money is spent . For example there are clear examples of foreigners using the A&E in a way that it was not designed and in many cases ' health tourism ' . I would therefore have no problem in forcing everyone who needs to use A&E a £50 charge at the point of admission . This should include both the young and old regardless . I think there are far too many examples of its service being abused which I have seen myself . Kids brought in with minors scratches and slight bruising that don't warrant even an examination . Harsh choices will soon have to be made , All the money raised should go directly back into training and the NHS itself . The biggest hurdle to this, is that it would require a change to the NHS constitution, and I don't think that would ever get through the houses. It would also set a dangerous president, because if you change the rules, then you are giving the government of the day an open mandate to abuse it. What should happen in my opinion is that more funding should be provided for essential treatments and funding should be cut from those that are not.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 8:03:09 GMT
There have been many good points and arguments made on this thread as to the state of the NHS. In my experience I don't agree with a two tier health service based on how wealthy a person is . In essence , I don't agree with BUPA at all . This has nothing to do with preventing people from spending their money haw they want to , but more about poorer ones not having the choice . I also think given the crisis the NHS now faces , we should be focused on how the money is spent . For example there are clear examples of foreigners using the A&E in a way that it was not designed and in many cases ' health tourism ' . I would therefore have no problem in forcing everyone who needs to use A&E a £50 charge at the point of admission . This should include both the young and old regardless . I think there are far too many examples of its service being abused which I have seen myself . Kids brought in with minors scratches and slight bruising that don't warrant even an examination . Harsh choices will soon have to be made , All the money raised should go directly back into training and the NHS itself . The biggest hurdle to this, is that it would require a change to the NHS constitution, and I don't think that would ever get through the houses. It would also set a dangerous president, because if you change the rules, then you are giving the government of the day an open mandate to abuse it. What should happen in my opinion is that more funding should be provided for essential treatments and funding should be cut from those that are not. I agree to a certain extent and I understand your cause for concern , but this is a major crisis . Harsh choices have to be made and it is being abused every single day at the cost of millions of pounds and very valuable resources . If we imposed a £50 charge then numbers attending A&E dramatically . Of that you can be sure .
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The NHS
Oct 12, 2015 8:33:20 GMT
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Post by Billy the kid on Oct 12, 2015 8:33:20 GMT
The problem with that though, is that you would get a lot of people who genuinely need care being unable/unwilling to attend A&E and then cost the tax payer more down the line.
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Post by ukcstokie on Oct 12, 2015 8:47:05 GMT
The biggest hurdle to this, is that it would require a change to the NHS constitution, and I don't think that would ever get through the houses. It would also set a dangerous president, because if you change the rules, then you are giving the government of the day an open mandate to abuse it. What should happen in my opinion is that more funding should be provided for essential treatments and funding should be cut from those that are not. I agree to a certain extent and I understand your cause for concern , but this is a major crisis . Harsh choices have to be made and it is being abused every single day at the cost of millions of pounds and very valuable resources . If we imposed a £50 charge then numbers attending A&E dramatically . Of that you can be sure . Don't agree with the £50 fee at all. What do you do when a little old granny - barely surviving on her pension, collapses? Sorry dear, can't pay the £50? Well you can't get any medical attention. Not the actions of a civilised country. There are things to sort out, even potentially fining people who persistently abuse A&E, but a £50 charge is just silly.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 8:59:19 GMT
I agree to a certain extent and I understand your cause for concern , but this is a major crisis . Harsh choices have to be made and it is being abused every single day at the cost of millions of pounds and very valuable resources . If we imposed a £50 charge then numbers attending A&E dramatically . Of that you can be sure . Don't agree with the £50 fee at all. What do you do when a little old granny - barely surviving on her pension, collapses? Sorry dear, can't pay the £50? Well you can't get any medical attention. Not the actions of a civilised country. There are things to sort out, even potentially fining people who persistently abuse A&E, but a £50 charge is just silly. I was thinking more about the walking wounded and perhaps making pensioners exempt . There is far too much time wasted on trivialities at the moment .
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The NHS
Oct 12, 2015 9:21:59 GMT
via mobile
Post by stokeharry on Oct 12, 2015 9:21:59 GMT
The only think I can say to that is they are now the exception and are certainly not the norm. And yes they should have made provision years ago in the knowledge that we have an aging population. Indirectly however i suspect that Thatchers right to buy was motivated somewhat by this. The point still remains that under investment and sly privitisation are now biting. Under investment?! Pull the other one. The NHS is the most ridiculously overfunded organisation in the world. The problem is what they do with all the money theyre given. Its an incredibly inefficient organisation, in large part down to how the budgeting process works. Each department gets a sum of money per year, and if you dont spend it all instead of being praised for saving money you just receive less next year. When i worked with the NHS they were scraping around for things to spend/waste money on in the last few weeks of every financial year. They get more than enough money already if they employed anyone half competent in non clinical positions. That's true mate
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Post by ukcstokie on Oct 12, 2015 9:38:10 GMT
Don't agree with the £50 fee at all. What do you do when a little old granny - barely surviving on her pension, collapses? Sorry dear, can't pay the £50? Well you can't get any medical attention. Not the actions of a civilised country. There are things to sort out, even potentially fining people who persistently abuse A&E, but a £50 charge is just silly. I was thinking more about the walking wounded and perhaps making pensioners exempt . There is far too much time wasted on trivialities at the moment . There are plenty of wealthy pensioners, as there are plenty of people struggling in the rest of society. A&E needs to be kept free. The things that need to be done to reduce the burden on A&E are to prosecute those who abuse it (in terms of of using it for health tourism and those who use it inappropriately) and to dramatically improve mental health care - so that people don't have to use A&E.
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The NHS
Oct 12, 2015 9:51:32 GMT
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Post by manmarking on Oct 12, 2015 9:51:32 GMT
You can stick your thumbs wherever you like for all I care youth Ahh...you do care really Only if you're **************
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The NHS
Oct 12, 2015 11:01:01 GMT
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Post by jssandbach on Oct 12, 2015 11:01:01 GMT
Ahh...you do care really Only if you're ************** You are **************! No one knew that! (Thumbs up )
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 11:02:14 GMT
Here's a good fund raiser that everyone would get behind ....
Anyone who attacks any NHS staff , or fireman whilst on duty should have to pay a minimum £5000 fine and imprisonment .
All proceeds to the NHS .
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 11:03:57 GMT
Only if you're ************** You are **************! No one knew that! (Thumbs up ) He's not ************** .....he's a ************** prostitute ! Sorry ....I meant substitute . I'm not good with big words....
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The NHS
Oct 12, 2015 11:24:47 GMT
via mobile
Post by manmarking on Oct 12, 2015 11:24:47 GMT
Only if you're ************** You are **************! No one knew that! (Thumbs up ) Wrong again sandy. And I'll report you if you call me ************** another time. Interestingly I've found two 100% genuine **************s in my travels around the boards over the last week. Absolutely dead cert. Hiding in plain sight they are. Easy enough to spot but the posters that scream "**************" the loudest are fatally one-dimensional and agenda-driven in how they "identify" the man. I won't be grassing him because I like what he brings to the site but he's there if you actually want to find him. Most don't want to because the element of doubt allows a facile strawman get-out to any reasoned argument. If you're reading **************, keep up the good work.
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The NHS
Oct 12, 2015 11:27:03 GMT
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Post by stokeharry on Oct 12, 2015 11:27:03 GMT
I wonder what the far left winger billy no mates thinks about this . Not seen him comment for a while . Maybe he's on a anti Britain protest
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Post by Rick Grimes on Oct 12, 2015 12:06:12 GMT
I wonder what the far left winger billy no mates thinks about this . Not seen him comment for a while . Maybe he's on a anti Britain protest Come on Harry you're better than this, don't let all the anger and hatred get to you mate because you end up posting utter drivel devoid of any intellect.
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The NHS
Oct 12, 2015 12:16:13 GMT
via mobile
Post by stokeharry on Oct 12, 2015 12:16:13 GMT
I wonder what the far left winger billy no mates thinks about this . Not seen him comment for a while . Maybe he's on a anti Britain protest Come on Harry you're better than this, don't let all the anger and hatred get to you mate because you end up posting utter drivel devoid of any intellect. Oh the irony
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