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Post by followyoudown on Oct 6, 2015 8:23:10 GMT
Another tactical error by Corbyn aligning himself with the protestors some of whom have been spitting and abusing delegates at the Tory conference, no new votes gained and plenty lost. In fairness he has disassociated himself from those types. A one off statement is not going to be enough for most people, how many people were abused in a similar way at the Labour conference? It's a trade union sponsored protest by a trade union sponsored leader, Corbyn has to decide if he wants to lead protests or the country and start acting accordingly.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Oct 6, 2015 8:34:58 GMT
Why would Gideon and the pig fucker step in to save up to 9000 Northern jobs when its loaning £45M to a steel company owned by millionaire Russian oligarch, Roman Abramovich. I mean that would be just daft wouldn't it? But... But... But... "Northern Powerhouse!"
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Post by followyoudown on Oct 6, 2015 8:56:58 GMT
Why would Gideon and the pig fucker step in to save up to 9000 Northern jobs when its loaning £45M to a steel company owned by millionaire Russian oligarch, Roman Abramovich. I mean that would be just daft wouldn't it? You do understand the principle of lending a company money is you expect it to be paid back, so £45m to help save jobs in Sheffield is a bad thing ? Compare and contrast with a plant already saved from closure once and now in £500m debt again what do you reckon the chances of getting any money back would be from there?
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Post by sheikhmomo on Oct 6, 2015 9:05:46 GMT
Why would Gideon and the pig fucker step in to save up to 9000 Northern jobs when its loaning £45M to a steel company owned by millionaire Russian oligarch, Roman Abramovich. I mean that would be just daft wouldn't it? You do understand the principle of lending a company money is you expect it to be paid back, so £45m to help save jobs in Sheffield is a bad thing ? Compare and contrast with a plant already saved from closure once and now in £500m debt again what do you reckon the chances of getting any money back would be from there? Well Evraz's credit rating suggests that it isn't guaranteed. It takes a special kind of Tory to not spot the irony in lending a billionaire tens of millions of pounds to upgrade a Candadian steel mill whilst allowing a whole region to fall into decay. Hey ho, its only non Tory voting Northerners isn't it.
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Post by Miles Offside on Oct 6, 2015 9:23:16 GMT
It should read "The Tories are the true party of New Labour", as there's very little between Gideon and Anthony Charles Lynton.
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Post by followyoudown on Oct 6, 2015 9:45:03 GMT
You do understand the principle of lending a company money is you expect it to be paid back, so £45m to help save jobs in Sheffield is a bad thing ? Compare and contrast with a plant already saved from closure once and now in £500m debt again what do you reckon the chances of getting any money back would be from there? Well Evraz's credit rating suggests that it isn't guaranteed. It takes a special kind of Tory to not spot the irony in lending a billionaire tens of millions of pounds to upgrade a Candadian steel mill whilst allowing a whole region to fall into decay. Hey ho, its only non Tory voting Northerners isn't it. There are no guarantees in life apart from death, taxes and you slagging Scholes off But back to the subject no one side guaranteed to payback but there is at least a reasonable chance of being paid back whilst also safeguarding jobs in that well known Tory Heartland of Sheffield. As for a special kind of Tory not really just someone who understands the difference between a company and a person and the fact owning 31% of a companies shares does not make it their company either. Redcar has lost £500m since its takeover and the only assistance they have asked for is of the open ended blank cheque type variety not a piddling loan. Google SSI shareholders they're not short of a bob or two yet they're prepared to walk away and lose £500m what does that tell you over the state of the steel industry globally and at Redcar.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Oct 6, 2015 9:49:34 GMT
Well Evraz's credit rating suggests that it isn't guaranteed. It takes a special kind of Tory to not spot the irony in lending a billionaire tens of millions of pounds to upgrade a Candadian steel mill whilst allowing a whole region to fall into decay. Hey ho, its only non Tory voting Northerners isn't it. There are no guarantees in life apart from death, taxes and you slagging Scholes off But back to the subject no one side guaranteed to payback but there is at least a reasonable chance of being paid back whilst also safeguarding jobs in that well known Tory Heartland of Sheffield. As for a special kind of Tory not really just someone who understands the difference between a company and a person and the fact owning 31% of a companies shares does not make it their company either. Redcar has lost £500m since its takeover and the only assistance they have asked for is of the open ended blank cheque type variety not a piddling loan. Google SSI shareholders they're not short of a bob or two yet they're prepared to walk away and lose £500m what does that tell you over the state of the steel industry globally and at Redcar. I look at the way Germany protects its people and industry and wish we had compassion in our vile right wing Government. Sadly we don't have a shred of it. Still, its only some funny sounding Northerners isn't it.
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Post by followyoudown on Oct 6, 2015 10:07:13 GMT
There are no guarantees in life apart from death, taxes and you slagging Scholes off But back to the subject no one side guaranteed to payback but there is at least a reasonable chance of being paid back whilst also safeguarding jobs in that well known Tory Heartland of Sheffield. As for a special kind of Tory not really just someone who understands the difference between a company and a person and the fact owning 31% of a companies shares does not make it their company either. Redcar has lost £500m since its takeover and the only assistance they have asked for is of the open ended blank cheque type variety not a piddling loan. Google SSI shareholders they're not short of a bob or two yet they're prepared to walk away and lose £500m what does that tell you over the state of the steel industry globally and at Redcar. I look at the way Germany protects its people and industry and wish we had compassion in our vile right wing Government. Sadly we don't have a shred of it. Still, its only some funny sounding Northerners isn't it. This should be right up your street then from 2013, not quite how you paint it in Germany mind. www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/02/15/thys-f15.html?view=article_mobile
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Post by britsabroad on Oct 6, 2015 11:44:07 GMT
The Tories aren't designed to be the party of the working class. The clue is in the name, really. The Conservative Party exist to keep power in the hands of elites. Problem we've got now is that everyone in the Westminster bubble has accepted the premise of "small-c" conservatism. I have to admit that Labour hardly challenge that status quo even with Corbyn in charge. The most insulting thing Osborne has done is hit working families with tax credit cuts and not replace it with anything. It's a massive reduction in income and the raising of the living wage won't cover it. It's massively disingenuous, and an insult to working families, to be quite frank. I'll never grasp quite how those on welfare and the poorest in society wound up having to pay the price for the mistakes of rich investment bankers. I'll never understand how people thought the best thing to do, after an economic crash in which the poor suffered the most, was to elect a party who quite openly wanted to scapegoat the poor for it. Each to their own though. Youre slightly wrong in your statement there. The Conservatives exist to give the successful and the hardworking a platform at the expense of everyone else. Labour exists to give everyone a platform at the expense of the successful and the hardworking. Its a nice idea, but it doesnt work. Its also time to let go of the rich banker rubbish. Aside from the fact of who might be to blame for the recession, the financial industry dragged the UK kicking and screaming out of the doldrums of the 70s and 80s and propped everyone up for 3 decades.
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Post by kbillyh on Oct 6, 2015 12:38:16 GMT
Yeah, let's get rid of this pointing the finger at bankers rubbish. They're getting thoroughly fed up with it now and it's about time we all concentrated our angst by blaming each other and those on the bottom rungs of society.
Britsabroad, the shit fan who always pops up on a Stoke City Message board when it comes to defending the banking industry..........oh and he works in the banking industry.
He's probably got an account on every internet message board spreading his apologist message.
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Post by Skankmonkey on Oct 6, 2015 12:46:13 GMT
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -J. K. Galbraith
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Post by Skankmonkey on Oct 6, 2015 12:49:12 GMT
The conspicuously wealthy turn up urging the character building values of the privation of the poor. -J.K. Galbraith
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Post by trentvale68 on Oct 6, 2015 15:45:58 GMT
At least there is no chance of Iain Duncan Smith getting the top job!!!
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Post by derrida1437 on Oct 6, 2015 15:48:18 GMT
The Tories aren't designed to be the party of the working class. The clue is in the name, really. The Conservative Party exist to keep power in the hands of elites. Problem we've got now is that everyone in the Westminster bubble has accepted the premise of "small-c" conservatism. I have to admit that Labour hardly challenge that status quo even with Corbyn in charge. The most insulting thing Osborne has done is hit working families with tax credit cuts and not replace it with anything. It's a massive reduction in income and the raising of the living wage won't cover it. It's massively disingenuous, and an insult to working families, to be quite frank. I'll never grasp quite how those on welfare and the poorest in society wound up having to pay the price for the mistakes of rich investment bankers. I'll never understand how people thought the best thing to do, after an economic crash in which the poor suffered the most, was to elect a party who quite openly wanted to scapegoat the poor for it. Each to their own though. Youre slightly wrong in your statement there. The Conservatives exist to give the successful and the hardworking a platform at the expense of everyone else. Labour exists to give everyone a platform at the expense of the successful and the hardworking. Its a nice idea, but it doesnt work. Its also time to let go of the rich banker rubbish. Aside from the fact of who might be to blame for the recession, the financial industry dragged the UK kicking and screaming out of the doldrums of the 70s and 80s and propped everyone up for 3 decades. I'm sure we can agree to disagree on that former point. Conservatism by its very philosophical nature is about protection and power. It is what it is. I'd suggest it's perhaps a little too soon to attempt to categorise Labour's philosophical approach. Particularly given that the Blairite policies have only just come to pass and nobody has yet defined (let anyone the man himself) Corbynism, such as it is. As for the bankers, you're on to a hiding for nothing there I fear. "Aside from...who might be to blame for the recession"....As you intimate it's impossible to get away from. To be honest, the second Tories stop scapegoating the poor for the economic situation is the second it all stops. As I've mentioned before, it's impossible to get away from the fact that pensioners are by far the biggest welfare claimants in the UK. Nobody wants to touch them. So if the Tories want to keep banging on about the welfare bill it's fine. But they're talking about pensioners. It's quite easy to kick someone when they haven't got anything to kick you back with.
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Post by harryburrows on Oct 6, 2015 17:54:59 GMT
The Tories aren't designed to be the party of the working class. The clue is in the name, really. The Conservative Party exist to keep power in the hands of elites. Problem we've got now is that everyone in the Westminster bubble has accepted the premise of "small-c" conservatism. I have to admit that Labour hardly challenge that status quo even with Corbyn in charge. The most insulting thing Osborne has done is hit working families with tax credit cuts and not replace it with anything. It's a massive reduction in income and the raising of the living wage won't cover it. It's massively disingenuous, and an insult to working families, to be quite frank. I'll never grasp quite how those on welfare and the poorest in society wound up having to pay the price for the mistakes of rich investment bankers. I'll never understand how people thought the best thing to do, after an economic crash in which the poor suffered the most, was to elect a party who quite openly wanted to scapegoat the poor for it. Each to their own though. Youre slightly wrong in your statement there. The Conservatives exist to give the successful and the hardworking a platform at the expense of everyone else. Labour exists to give everyone a platform at the expense of the successful and the hardworking. Its a nice idea, but it doesnt work. Its also time to let go of the rich banker rubbish. Aside from the fact of who might be to blame for the recession, the financial industry dragged the UK kicking and screaming out of the doldrums of the 70s and 80s and propped everyone up for 3 decades. I think everyone forgets it was Blair and brown who took control of the banks away from the Bank of England and gave it to the discredited FSA . they allowed the banking sector to become seriously overextended and were largely negligent in banking regulation for a decade prior to the crash .
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Post by derrida1437 on Oct 6, 2015 19:32:13 GMT
Youre slightly wrong in your statement there. The Conservatives exist to give the successful and the hardworking a platform at the expense of everyone else. Labour exists to give everyone a platform at the expense of the successful and the hardworking. Its a nice idea, but it doesnt work. Its also time to let go of the rich banker rubbish. Aside from the fact of who might be to blame for the recession, the financial industry dragged the UK kicking and screaming out of the doldrums of the 70s and 80s and propped everyone up for 3 decades. I think everyone forgets it was Blair and brown who took control of the banks away from the Bank of England and gave it to the discredited FSA . they allowed the banking sector to become seriously overextended and were largely negligent in banking regulation for a decade prior to the crash . Labour actually wanted to reign in banking regulation in 2001, but faced consistent opposition throughout the Blair years from Conservatives. It's common knowledge that financial deregulation wasn't an exclusively Labour policy. I'd double check the 2001 Conservative Manifesto -? "We will...cut government interference and regulation in order to match the competition in the global marketplace" - www.conservativemanifesto.com/2001/2001-conservative-manifesto.shtmlDeregulation was part of a post-Thatcherite consensus. Lest we forget – in 2007 Cameron endorsed even less regulation of banks than Labour …… tompride.wordpress.com/2012/06/29/lest-we-forget-in-2007-cameron-endorsed-even-less-regulation-of-banks-than-labour/Fill your boots with more hysterically hypocritical Tory claptrap here, too; conservativehome.blogs.com/torydiary/2007/08/redwood-urges-b.htmlconservative-speeches.sayit.mysociety.org/speech/601124William Hague. 2001: Attachment Deleted
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Post by britsabroad on Oct 8, 2015 1:37:48 GMT
Youre slightly wrong in your statement there. The Conservatives exist to give the successful and the hardworking a platform at the expense of everyone else. Labour exists to give everyone a platform at the expense of the successful and the hardworking. Its a nice idea, but it doesnt work. Its also time to let go of the rich banker rubbish. Aside from the fact of who might be to blame for the recession, the financial industry dragged the UK kicking and screaming out of the doldrums of the 70s and 80s and propped everyone up for 3 decades. I think everyone forgets it was Blair and brown who took control of the banks away from the Bank of England and gave it to the discredited FSA . they allowed the banking sector to become seriously overextended and were largely negligent in banking regulation for a decade prior to the crash . Everyone was to blame. From the regulators who didnt understand what they were regulating, the traders who blindly bought and sold underlying assets they didnt know anything about, the loan companies and retail banks loaning endless cash to people who couldn't repay, to the people taking finance out to buy a TV or a kettle. People just want to turn the blame on 'the rich' (whoever they might be, its as meaningless a term as the poor) because its easier than admitting they got it just as wrong when they signed up for every credit card deal and interest free loan they could get their hands on.
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