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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 12, 2015 7:01:18 GMT
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Post by fca47 on Sept 12, 2015 7:18:40 GMT
Great article about the greatest manager.of all time.
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Post by HappyClapper on Sept 12, 2015 7:22:43 GMT
Should have been allowed to manage England. We would have won something under him.
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Post by werrington on Sept 12, 2015 7:39:48 GMT
Great manager but a very arrogant and obnoxious man
He's the olden day equivalent of a Nigel Pearson who think /thought they can say and do as they want and revelled in intimidation
I'm out of the love in
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Post by chiefdelilah on Sept 12, 2015 7:44:12 GMT
He'd have started a war as England manager.
Fascinating character though. Some great books on him.
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Post by HappyClapper on Sept 12, 2015 8:01:26 GMT
He'd have started a war as England manager. Fascinating character though. Some great books on him. The FA swerved him big time. He would've ruffled too many feathers. They only like yes men, that's why venables wasn't there for that long. |
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 12, 2015 8:03:17 GMT
I passionately disagree with the idea he is the greatest manager England never had. It's a trite soundbite with little foundation.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Sept 12, 2015 8:03:49 GMT
I think Venables was very smart to go when he did. Had he stayed I doubt history would've remembered him anything like as fondly.
Probably true that the FA don't want anyone who's going to speak out of turn.
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Post by lennythegoose on Sept 12, 2015 8:30:02 GMT
Great manager but a very arrogant and obnoxious man He's the olden day equivalent of a Nigel Pearson who think /thought they can say and do as they want and revelled in intimidation I'm out of the love in Couldn't agree more although I do admire what he achieved. Similar to Ferguson in that way - a begrudging respect for the amazing feats he achieved but questionable methods of achieving them. Clearly, that is probably what it takes to be such a success but give me a Bobby Robson any day. I warm more to humility. |
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Post by mickstupp on Sept 12, 2015 10:17:23 GMT
I think Venables was very smart to go when he did. Had he stayed I doubt history would've remembered him anything like as fondly. Probably true that the FA don't want anyone who's going to speak out of turn. Not sure about that, chief. Venables put a very good side together for Euro 96 and with players such as Scholes, Owen and Beckham emerging who knows what he could have gone on to achieve?? |
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Post by march4 on Sept 12, 2015 12:13:05 GMT
Good leaders produce a synergy in the group that means their combined output is greater than if they were acting as individuals.
And if you can also find a way of motivating every individual to give every ounce of effort you are doing something special.
However, good leaders are divisive, worshipped by their supporters, despised by their detractors. Think of any leader who polarises opinion and you are probably thinking of a good leader.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Sept 12, 2015 12:34:37 GMT
I think Venables was very smart to go when he did. Had he stayed I doubt history would've remembered him anything like as fondly. Probably true that the FA don't want anyone who's going to speak out of turn. Not sure about that, chief. Venables put a very good side together for Euro 96 and with players such as Scholes, Owen and Beckham emerging who knows what he could have gone on to achieve?? The very good side he put together didn't have to qualify though and only actually played well in two and a half of the five games. Needed a fair bit of luck against Spain as well. |
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Post by kustokie on Sept 12, 2015 12:37:29 GMT
I passionately disagree with the idea he is the greatest manager England never had. It's a trite soundbite with little foundation. Disagree. What he did with Forest and the Sheep Shaggers was nothing short of miraculous. Great character. |
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Post by lordb on Sept 12, 2015 12:52:41 GMT
Good leaders produce a synergy in the group that means their combined output is greater than if they were acting as individuals. And if you can also find a way of motivating every individual to give every ounce of effort you are doing something special. However, good leaders are divisive, worshipped by their supporters, despised by their detractors. Think of any leader who polarises opinion and you are probably thinking of a good leader. Always exceptions though. Paisley,Waddington,Roosevelt (well FDR) |
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 12, 2015 13:43:04 GMT
I passionately disagree with the idea he is the greatest manager England never had. It's a trite soundbite with little foundation. Disagree. What he did with Forest and the Sheep Shaggers was nothing short of miraculous. Great character. I agree. Brilliant achievement. But still plenty of reasons why he wouldn't have been a great England manager. |
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Post by knowles on Sept 16, 2015 5:20:32 GMT
Here's the trailer
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Sept 16, 2015 5:32:16 GMT
Would be a far better film if they only showed the Francis goal and didnt allow him to speak at any time during it?????
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2015 7:02:20 GMT
I think Venables was very smart to go when he did. Had he stayed I doubt history would've remembered him anything like as fondly. Probably true that the FA don't want anyone who's going to speak out of turn. Not sure about that, chief. Venables put a very good side together for Euro 96 and with players such as Scholes, Owen and Beckham emerging who knows what he could have gone on to achieve?? Euro 96 was indeed a success (Switzerland game aside). However, Venables's teams and formations were ridiculed in the press in the run up to the tournament especially his "Christmas Tree". And in fairness, the performances were poor and lacklustre although it's not easy to really make a judgement on 2 years of friendlies (having automatically qualified). It was very much like Robson, the clamour for Veneables to stay on came after the tournament. But much like Robson, he decided not to go back on his decision to quit. I don't understand why the press go so easy on Hodgson. He's up there with Mclaren IMHO |
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Post by mickstupp on Sept 16, 2015 9:45:52 GMT
Not sure about that, chief. Venables put a very good side together for Euro 96 and with players such as Scholes, Owen and Beckham emerging who knows what he could have gone on to achieve?? Euro 96 was indeed a success (Switzerland game aside). However, Venables's teams and formations were ridiculed in the press in the run up to the tournament especially his "Christmas Tree". And in fairness, the performances were poor and lacklustre although it's not easy to really make a judgement on 2 years of friendlies (having automatically qualified). It was very much like Robson, the clamour for Veneables to stay on came after the tournament. But much like Robson, he decided not to go back on his decision to quit. I don't understand why the press go so easy on Hodgson. He's up there with Mclaren IMHO It's all subjective and impossible to prove nearly 20 years later, but I'm convinced Venables would have taken the national team much further than Hoddle and Keegan managed to. The 4-1 demolition of Holland was as close to perfection as you will find from an England side, and was only matched once, when we stuffed the Germans 5-1 away. |
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Post by rawli on Sept 16, 2015 13:07:43 GMT
I passionately disagree with the idea he is the greatest manager England never had. It's a trite soundbite with little foundation. He was no Don Revie or Ron Greenwood. He wasn't made England manager because the blazer wankers who still run the FA would prefer to lose with a 'good sort' in charge than win with a maverick in charge. It's still the case now - see Keegan, Hodgson and fucking Mclaren as examples. They got rid of Hoddle (who was doing a good job) and Venables (ditto) because of the bad publicity they were bringing. |
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Post by chiefdelilah on Sept 16, 2015 16:36:56 GMT
Euro 96 was indeed a success (Switzerland game aside). However, Venables's teams and formations were ridiculed in the press in the run up to the tournament especially his "Christmas Tree". And in fairness, the performances were poor and lacklustre although it's not easy to really make a judgement on 2 years of friendlies (having automatically qualified). It was very much like Robson, the clamour for Veneables to stay on came after the tournament. But much like Robson, he decided not to go back on his decision to quit. I don't understand why the press go so easy on Hodgson. He's up there with Mclaren IMHO It's all subjective and impossible to prove nearly 20 years later, but I'm convinced Venables would have taken the national team much further than Hoddle and Keegan managed to. The 4-1 demolition of Holland was as close to perfection as you will find from an England side, and was only matched once, when we stuffed the Germans 5-1 away. It was brilliant. But people forget not every performance in the tournament was like that and it would have been tougher for him from that point onwards. |
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Post by sufolkstokie on Sept 16, 2015 16:43:50 GMT
Would he have been the same without Taylor? Not sure he would
Still one of the best for me
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 17, 2015 11:31:29 GMT
Not sure about that, chief. Venables put a very good side together for Euro 96 and with players such as Scholes, Owen and Beckham emerging who knows what he could have gone on to achieve?? Euro 96 was indeed a success (Switzerland game aside). However, Venables's teams and formations were ridiculed in the press in the run up to the tournament especially his "Christmas Tree". And in fairness, the performances were poor and lacklustre although it's not easy to really make a judgement on 2 years of friendlies (having automatically qualified). It was very much like Robson, the clamour for Veneables to stay on came after the tournament. But much like Robson, he decided not to go back on his decision to quit. I don't understand why the press go so easy on Hodgson. He's up there with Mclaren IMHO Bad as McClaen? That is ludicrous. |
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Post by Bick on Sept 17, 2015 11:39:16 GMT
Clough's philosophy was so simply - do the basic things right.
If only more managers stuck with that today - rather than trying too sell / entertain before getting it right.
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 17, 2015 11:43:18 GMT
Clough's philosophy was so simply - do the basic things right. If only more managers stuck with that today - rather than trying too sell / entertain before getting it right. In the end though that simple approach undid him. As the game was becoming more detailed Clough refused to adapt and it was a very sad way for a manager of his stature to leave the game. |
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Post by hoofmagic on Sept 17, 2015 15:53:28 GMT
without a second though, the BEST
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Post by outspaced on Sept 17, 2015 21:40:53 GMT
Clough seemed to have the knack of getting journeymen/half decent players to gel in his teams, especially in the early years at Forest. Kenny Burns, Larry Lloyd, Peter Shilton, John McGovern, John Robertson, Archie Gemmill, Tony Woodcock and more. The top clubs wouldn't have touched them, or not let them go. In a documentary about BC John McGovern who was the skipper at Forest said Clough wasn't a bloke who he'd ever go out for a pint with but he'd walk to ends of the earth for him as a man and manager.
Cloughie did seem to get the best out of certain players who if we were linked with signing the modern day equivalents now fans would be going nuts.
Brian Laws, Nigel Jemson, Gary Crosby, Steve Hodge, Colin Walsh, Gary Mills, Kenny Swain, Peter Davenport and many more.
He made a right balls up with Justin Fashanu though, both personally and professionally.
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 17, 2015 21:47:05 GMT
Clough seemed to have the knack of getting journeymen/half decent players to gel in his teams, especially in the early years at Forest. Kenny Burns, Larry Lloyd, Peter Shilton, John McGovern, John Robertson, Archie Gemmill, Tony Woodcock and more. The top clubs wouldn't have touched them, or not let them go. In a documentary about BC John McGovern who was the skipper at Forest said Clough wasn't a bloke who he'd ever go out for a pint with but he'd walk to ends of the earth for him as a man and manager. Cloughie did seem to get the best out of certain players who if we were linked with signing the modern day equivalents now fans would be going nuts. Brian Laws, Nigel Jemson, Gary Crosby, Steve Hodge, Colin Walsh, Gary Mills, Kenny Swain, Peter Davenport and many more. He made a right balls up with Justin Fashanu though, both personally and professionally. He talked openly about how shit he was at buying strikers. Peter Ward and Fashanu being two. Flipside is some strikers were great for him and crap everywhere else....Davenport and Birtles for instance. |
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Post by oldpotter on Sept 17, 2015 22:02:28 GMT
One of the best there was, arrogant the same as Ali,but backed it up with his success at forest a derby c.the FA only wanted yes men.
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Post by rawli on Sept 17, 2015 22:53:48 GMT
Clough's philosophy was so simply - do the basic things right. If only more managers stuck with that today - rather than trying too sell / entertain before getting it right. In the end though that simple approach undid him. As the game was becoming more detailed Clough refused to adapt and it was a very sad way for a manager of his stature to leave the game. Alcoholism undid him. |
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