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Post by chiefdelilah on Sept 11, 2015 10:10:26 GMT
I think the contract stuff with Walters should be put aside now. Used in certain situations he has plenty to offer as a squad player, no point cutting off our nose to spite our face.
Wouldn't play Sidwell but can totally see why we'd look to keep it tight. Give Arsenal space at home and they'll butcher you. Swansea won there by frustrating them, as, to an extent, did West Ham.
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Post by upthefud on Sept 11, 2015 10:25:03 GMT
Horses for courses, isn't that Hughes mantra this season? How do you know that Diouf and Johnson are more doubtful? Yeah lets burn Walters at the stake eh, N'Zonzi shouldn't have played for the last two years the swine. Bojan Arnie and MVG could be game changing subs depending on how were getting on. Where did N"Zonzi come from, who mentioned him and who is burning Walters at the stake. Walters has been unsettled by contract negotiations, is this the best time to play him and is it the best message to other players in the squad if he walks straight back into the first eleven? If we have no one else he should play and he should be on the bench anyway. Tactically I don't agree with your approach. Sidwell is a liability and has shown that on numerous occasions recently and as Pugsley said "5 years ago yeah, now, definitely not", anyway why would you drop MVG who is improving and was very focussed against West Brom. Starting Sidwell in preference to him is risible. Walters defensive capabilities are overrated IMHO, yes he harries players up the field but he rarely closes the opposing winger down sufficiently in the danger area around our penalty area and countless crosses get though. Anyway Walters was dire in his last game and doesn't deserve to walk straight back into the team before players who performed well in their last outing, but then again he doesn't have a fancy foreign name, so shouting his mouth off in public, handing in a transfer request and being gash in his last club game doesn't count!! To take your other points I think Hughes said this is a squad game which is subtly different and more, I think, more to do with with playing players in form and keeping them on their toes, something he has always done in his tenure here. Why are Diouf and Johnson more doubtful? Well I listened to Hughes' press conference and it was clear to me that he thought Arnie was the most likely to play, he actually said something like "hopefully he will be OK" something he didn't say about the others, he was more cautious. So in summery, you drop an improving new midfield player for one who has been shown to be a liability on numerous occasions, move our record signing from his favoured position to accommodate an unsettled one and try and "hold" Arsenal for 50 or 60 minutes, a tactic that has proved totally fruitless on many occasions and drop a doubtful but in form player immediately to the bench whilst retaining two players that are even more doubtful. If Arnie, is fit he should play as should Diouf and Johnson, MVG should start and Bojan should play a significant amount of time, if fit. It seems to me your tactics are more about shoehorning a favourite player in (and dispensing with one who has a fancy foreign name) rather than tactics per se. You mention the term fancy foreign name on several occasions, it means nothing it's all about the player and what he brings to the team. John Stones is still playing at Everton is he not? Should they drop him? For as bad as Walters was at Spurs and as good as Arnie was there, Arnie was rightfully dropped after two poor showings at Luton and Norwich. He did well against WBA but Walters characteristics suit this game better. It's nothing to do with me being biased or anti you'll see other posters have picked a variety of different players. I can see the Sidwell reservations and as I alluded to earlier I'd love to play Cameron in that role but sadly we can't move him without Ryan. Fact is he is more defensive minded than MVG so if we want a solid base he's the way to go, if not then there's no point him being in the squad. Putting Shaq to the left is a tactical move because Pieters is a better defender than Johnson, it's pretty simple if you care to think about our opponents instead of flying off the hook. In summary Arsenal have failed to score in 5 of 6 home games. Holding them will test their mettle which will give us a better chance of nicking it. In summary you're a little upset because I didn't pick Arnie.
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Post by pavel on Sept 11, 2015 10:57:35 GMT
I think the contract stuff with Walters should be put aside now. Used in certain situations he has plenty to offer as a squad player, no point cutting off our nose to spite our face. Wouldn't play Sidwell but can totally see why we'd look to keep it tight. Give Arsenal space at home and they'll butcher you. Swansea won there by frustrating them, as, to an extent, did West Ham. I agree to a great extent and I said he should at least be on the bench and play from the start if we don't have any other options. In fact Hughes has said since he came back he has been very professional, which I applaud. I just don't think he should be just shoed in at expense of in form players "if" they are fit and unbalance the side by moving Shiqiri out of his favoured position. I don't think Johnson has been a liability defensively to date, though many will see its differently, in fact I feel Pieters has been below par, which is a concern with a patched up defence. Yes we do need to keep it tight, but that's different than parking the bus which we cannot do with our present defence, not that it's ever worked at Arsenal. We need it to stick up front when we have it and that's why I would include Arnie if fit and also not change the balance of the team by moving Shiqiri. We'll probably lose as always but I'd rather not go out with a whimper.
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Post by pavel on Sept 11, 2015 11:23:12 GMT
Where did N"Zonzi come from, who mentioned him and who is burning Walters at the stake. Walters has been unsettled by contract negotiations, is this the best time to play him and is it the best message to other players in the squad if he walks straight back into the first eleven? If we have no one else he should play and he should be on the bench anyway. Tactically I don't agree with your approach. Sidwell is a liability and has shown that on numerous occasions recently and as Pugsley said "5 years ago yeah, now, definitely not", anyway why would you drop MVG who is improving and was very focussed against West Brom. Starting Sidwell in preference to him is risible. Walters defensive capabilities are overrated IMHO, yes he harries players up the field but he rarely closes the opposing winger down sufficiently in the danger area around our penalty area and countless crosses get though. Anyway Walters was dire in his last game and doesn't deserve to walk straight back into the team before players who performed well in their last outing, but then again he doesn't have a fancy foreign name, so shouting his mouth off in public, handing in a transfer request and being gash in his last club game doesn't count!! To take your other points I think Hughes said this is a squad game which is subtly different and more, I think, more to do with with playing players in form and keeping them on their toes, something he has always done in his tenure here. Why are Diouf and Johnson more doubtful? Well I listened to Hughes' press conference and it was clear to me that he thought Arnie was the most likely to play, he actually said something like "hopefully he will be OK" something he didn't say about the others, he was more cautious. So in summery, you drop an improving new midfield player for one who has been shown to be a liability on numerous occasions, move our record signing from his favoured position to accommodate an unsettled one and try and "hold" Arsenal for 50 or 60 minutes, a tactic that has proved totally fruitless on many occasions and drop a doubtful but in form player immediately to the bench whilst retaining two players that are even more doubtful. If Arnie, is fit he should play as should Diouf and Johnson, MVG should start and Bojan should play a significant amount of time, if fit. It seems to me your tactics are more about shoehorning a favourite player in (and dispensing with one who has a fancy foreign name) rather than tactics per se. You mention the term fancy foreign name on several occasions, it means nothing it's all about the player and what he brings to the team. John Stones is still playing at Everton is he not? Should they drop him? For as bad as Walters was at Spurs and as good as Arnie was there, Arnie was rightfully dropped after two poor showings at Luton and Norwich. He did well against WBA but Walters characteristics suit this game better. It's nothing to do with me being biased or anti you'll see other posters have picked a variety of different players. I can see the Sidwell reservations and as I alluded to earlier I'd love to play Cameron in that role but sadly we can't move him without Ryan. Fact is he is more defensive minded than MVG so if we want a solid base he's the way to go, if not then there's no point him being in the squad. Putting Shaq to the left is a tactical move because Pieters is a better defender than Johnson, it's pretty simple if you care to think about our opponents instead of flying off the hook. In summary Arsenal have failed to score in 5 of 6 home games. Holding them will test their mettle which will give us a better chance of nicking it. In summary you're a little upset because I didn't pick Arnie. Regarding the term fancy foreign names, I think it is one you have used on numerous occasions and your antipathy to Arnie is well known on this board and is so transparent. Yes Arnie did deserve to be dropped after Luton and Norwich but so did a host of others but he came back stronger for it, so a good decision by Hughes. Who said Walters should be dropped, i didn't, I said he shouldn't be a shoe in before in form players, it fit. Re Shiqiri and Pieters I don't think its a way forward and incidentally I think Pieters has been more shaky than Johnson to date. In summery I'm not upset you didn't pick Arnie, I expected it, surprise, surprise! I just think you picked the wrong team (especially Sidwell) and I don't think Walters characteristics suit this game particularly, but he should be in the mix. I don't think sitting back and trying to nick it at Arsenal will work, has it ever. We need to keep it tight, harry them and make it stick up front and that's why I would persist with "in form" players who have a good touch and can hold the ball up well. It's that simple, your assertion you've upset me is as risible as your inclusion of Sidwell. Enough said.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Sept 11, 2015 11:30:04 GMT
I think the contract stuff with Walters should be put aside now. Used in certain situations he has plenty to offer as a squad player, no point cutting off our nose to spite our face. Wouldn't play Sidwell but can totally see why we'd look to keep it tight. Give Arsenal space at home and they'll butcher you. Swansea won there by frustrating them, as, to an extent, did West Ham. I agree to a great extent and I said he should at least be on the bench and play from the start if we don't have any other options. In fact Hughes has said since he came back he has been very professional, which I applaud. I just don't think he should be just shoed in at expense of in form players "if" they are fit and unbalance the side by moving Shiqiri out of his favoured position. I don't think Johnson has been a liability defensively to date, though many will see its differently, in fact I feel Pieters has been below par, which is a concern with a patched up defence. Yes we do need to keep it tight, but that's different than parking the bus which we cannot do with our present defence, not that it's ever worked at Arsenal. We need it to stick up front when we have it and that's why I would include Arnie if fit and also not change the balance of the team by moving Shiqiri. We'll probably lose as always but I'd rather not go out with a whimper. Absolutely - still pick players capable of winning you the game but try and be clever about it.
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on Sept 11, 2015 12:28:07 GMT
Mmmm... What would you do? Attack from the off or play cautious for the first 30 minutes to wear down their enthusiasm?
I would play:
Butland Johnson Cameron Muniesa Pieters Whelan MVG Shaqiri Ireland Arnautovic Crouch
This is if diouf is injured or i would include him:
2nd half when Arsenal tire:
Butland Johnson Cameron Muniesa Pieters Whelan MVG Shaq Bojan Arnie Joselu
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Post by Gods on Sept 11, 2015 12:34:53 GMT
Mmmm... What would you do? Attack from the off or play cautious for the first 30 minutes to wear down their enthusiasm? I am not even sure "attack from the off" is something you can just elect to do against the very top teams in their own back yard. You have to have a platform that enables you to get hold of the ball and then not give it away first and then hope you can create some kind of threat. Its almost like you have to earn the right to play first...
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Post by iplayinthehole on Sept 11, 2015 12:37:00 GMT
Mmmm... What would you do? Attack from the off or play cautious for the first 30 minutes to wear down their enthusiasm? I would play: Butland Johnson Cameron Muniesa Pieters Whelan MVG Shaqiri Ireland Arnautovic Crouch This is if diouf is injured or i would include him: 2nd half when Arsenal tire: Butland Johnson Cameron Muniesa Pieters Whelan MVG Shaq Bojan Arnie Joselu Sadly, doesn't Mertesaker have a really good record against Crouch?
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Post by upthefud on Sept 11, 2015 12:40:31 GMT
You mention the term fancy foreign name on several occasions, it means nothing it's all about the player and what he brings to the team. John Stones is still playing at Everton is he not? Should they drop him? For as bad as Walters was at Spurs and as good as Arnie was there, Arnie was rightfully dropped after two poor showings at Luton and Norwich. He did well against WBA but Walters characteristics suit this game better. It's nothing to do with me being biased or anti you'll see other posters have picked a variety of different players. I can see the Sidwell reservations and as I alluded to earlier I'd love to play Cameron in that role but sadly we can't move him without Ryan. Fact is he is more defensive minded than MVG so if we want a solid base he's the way to go, if not then there's no point him being in the squad. Putting Shaq to the left is a tactical move because Pieters is a better defender than Johnson, it's pretty simple if you care to think about our opponents instead of flying off the hook. In summary Arsenal have failed to score in 5 of 6 home games. Holding them will test their mettle which will give us a better chance of nicking it. In summary you're a little upset because I didn't pick Arnie. Regarding the term fancy foreign names, I think it is one you have used on numerous occasions and your antipathy to Arnie is well known on this board and is so transparent. Yes Arnie did deserve to be dropped after Luton and Norwich but so did a host of others but he came back stronger for it, so a good decision by Hughes. Who said Walters should be dropped, i didn't, I said he shouldn't be a shoe in before in form players, it fit. Re Shiqiri and Pieters I don't think its a way forward and incidentally I think Pieters has been more shaky than Johnson to date. In summery I'm not upset you didn't pick Arnie, I expected it, surprise, surprise! I just think you picked the wrong team (especially Sidwell) and I don't think Walters characteristics suit this game particularly, but he should be in the mix. I don't think sitting back and trying to nick it at Arsenal will work, has it ever. We need to keep it tight, harry them and make it stick up front and that's why I would persist with "in form" players who have a good touch and can hold the ball up well. It's that simple, your assertion you've upset me is as risible as your inclusion of Sidwell. Enough said. I go out of my way to call what I perceive to be a spade a spade. If you want to have a little look through my post history you'll see that I've not got into any serious Arnie debates this season (to my knowledge) and gave him a lot of credit for his performance at Spurs. If you think I have something against him it's purely because despite their being s talented player in there he simply does not produce anywhere near often enough in my opinion. If Whelan were to have as many off days as Arnie then this board would go into meltdown. That's my stance and this isn't the thread to discuss it. Walters isn't a shoe in. Butland Shawcross Muni Whelan Bojan Shaq and Diouf are the only shoe ins we have when our squad is at full strength. Despite this Walters still has a key role, if it's not for the likes of Arsenal then what role is it in your opinion? Sidwell is part of the 25 man squad bed has more defensive discipline than MVG. Again, he's not my first choice but for a game at the Emirrates his discipline and experience wins him a place in my team at the expense of a youngster who is still learning his role within the team. Cameron and Adam would both sit with Whelan in these sort of games ahead of him but sadly we don't have that luxury for the next 3-4 weeks.
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Post by thedeadlyshart on Sept 11, 2015 12:54:01 GMT
Butland Cameron Wilson muniesa pieters Whelan MVG Walters Ireland Shaqiri Joselu
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on Sept 11, 2015 13:28:26 GMT
Mmmm... What would you do? Attack from the off or play cautious for the first 30 minutes to wear down their enthusiasm? I am not even sure "attack from the off" is something you can just elect to do against the very top teams in their own back yard. You have to have a platform that enables you to get hold of the ball and then not give it away first and then hope you can create some kind of threat. Its almost like you have to earn the right to play first... I was thinking along the lines of what Swansea seem to do.... get in close and quick attacking tempo to keep them off guard. It is a difficult one as doing so would expose our already shaky defence (confidence??) but sitting back will invite them on..
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on Sept 11, 2015 13:30:57 GMT
Mmmm... What would you do? Attack from the off or play cautious for the first 30 minutes to wear down their enthusiasm? I would play: Butland Johnson Cameron Muniesa Pieters Whelan MVG Shaqiri Ireland Arnautovic Crouch This is if diouf is injured or i would include him: 2nd half when Arsenal tire: Butland Johnson Cameron Muniesa Pieters Whelan MVG Shaq Bojan Arnie Joselu Sadly, doesn't Mertesaker have a really good record against Crouch? Perhaps use Crouch to hold the ball (playing on the ground) whilst Ireland/Bojan break through with the wide men stretching the defence? With Mertesacker Diouf would be perfect because he has the turning circle of a tanker and is very slow over the first 5 yards... Diouf would relish this, but does joselu have the pace?
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Post by jezzascfc on Sept 11, 2015 13:42:30 GMT
Much depends on the fitness of Diouf, Arnie and Johnson - Hughes' presser seems to suggest Arnie and Johnson may make it, but Diouf may not. I'd still rest Johnson personally, as I am not sure his walk about tendencies will help us much in this game - we need a defender in there who will sit in when we are under the cosh, as we may well be for the first half. We need to hold tight, frustrate them and hit them on the break as the match wears on. Walters and Arnie know how to track back from out wide, and Shaq can have a free role as a number 10 to have a go at them on the counter attack.
For me:
Butland
Cameron Wilson Muniesa Pieters
Whelan Van Ginkel
Walters Shaqiri Arnautovic
Joselu
I'd consider Bojan for either Walters or Arnie in the second half, with Shaq moving wider to accommodate him.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Sept 11, 2015 13:52:58 GMT
I think if Johnson is fit he'll play mate. It enables us to make fewer changes if we don't have to and allow Cameron and Muniesa to forge their partnership. Your suggestion of Shaq in the hole is a little hard on Ireland who has played reasonably well of late. All we gain from Walters out wide is his questionable work rate when compared to Shaqiri who I actually thought worked quite hard against England. We'll miss Diouf if he doesn't make it but perhaps now is Joselu's time to shine.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Sept 11, 2015 13:58:40 GMT
I am not even sure "attack from the off" is something you can just elect to do against the very top teams in their own back yard. You have to have a platform that enables you to get hold of the ball and then not give it away first and then hope you can create some kind of threat. Its almost like you have to earn the right to play first... I was thinking along the lines of what Swansea seem to do.... get in close and quick attacking tempo to keep them off guard. It is a difficult one as doing so would expose our already shaky defence (confidence??) but sitting back will invite them on.. Swansea won at the Emirates by sitting back, frustrating them and doing them on the break.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Sept 11, 2015 14:05:42 GMT
Both Diouf and Arnie could be out .
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on Sept 11, 2015 14:40:07 GMT
I was thinking along the lines of what Swansea seem to do.... get in close and quick attacking tempo to keep them off guard. It is a difficult one as doing so would expose our already shaky defence (confidence??) but sitting back will invite them on.. Swansea won at the Emirates by sitting back, frustrating them and doing them on the break. Ahhhh.. I got sucked in by the media love in then!!
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Post by samba :) on Sept 11, 2015 14:51:01 GMT
Is Odemwingie injured
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Post by jezzascfc on Sept 11, 2015 14:57:41 GMT
I think if Johnson is fit he'll play mate. It enables us to make fewer changes if we don't have to and allow Cameron and Muniesa to forge their partnership. Your suggestion of Shaq in the hole is a little hard on Ireland who has played reasonably well of late. All we gain from Walters out wide is his questionable work rate when compared to Shaqiri who I actually thought worked quite hard against England. We'll miss Diouf if he doesn't make it but perhaps now is Joselu's time to shine. I take the point re Ireland, but Shaq has more pace and dribbling skills, which may help out and make up for the reduction in pace of our front man. Likewise Johnson playing would keep a stable back four unit, I agree, but I still worry about a right back whose first priority is not to defend, especially away from home v Arsenal and their pacey wide attackers.
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Post by nutterpotter on Sept 11, 2015 14:59:49 GMT
He's been training and Hughes said he's looked sharp. But he then went on to say that Odemwingie will most probably play for the U21s on Monday.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Sept 11, 2015 15:00:28 GMT
Swansea won at the Emirates by sitting back, frustrating them and doing them on the break. Ahhhh.. I got sucked in by the media love in then!! They do play some good stuff but they went into that game with a plan and executed it. Nothing wrong with that, daft to only have one way of playing in your armoury.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Sept 11, 2015 15:18:20 GMT
I think if Johnson is fit he'll play mate. It enables us to make fewer changes if we don't have to and allow Cameron and Muniesa to forge their partnership. Your suggestion of Shaq in the hole is a little hard on Ireland who has played reasonably well of late. All we gain from Walters out wide is his questionable work rate when compared to Shaqiri who I actually thought worked quite hard against England. We'll miss Diouf if he doesn't make it but perhaps now is Joselu's time to shine. I take the point re Ireland, but Shaq has more pace and dribbling skills, which may help out and make up for the reduction in pace of our front man. Likewise Johnson playing would keep a stable back four unit, I agree, but I still worry about a right back whose first priority is not to defend, especially away from home v Arsenal and their pacey wide attackers. I wouldn't say that Geoff is necessarily a more defensive option than Johnson but can't see him dropped as it would make no sense. If he's injured that's another story altogether. I still think Shaq is more useful in a wider position as his passing and delivery from these positions is pretty good but I can see where you're coming from
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Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 11, 2015 18:42:46 GMT
For me, if Arnie is fit Arnie would play. Even off form he's the best winger we have defensively.
I'd be very tempted to have shaqiri playing centrally, behind joselu, with diouf or Walters on the right.
Odemeingie, bojan, diouf/walters as options from the bench with crouch and Ireland as well would see us looking strong and in a great position to claim the 3 points.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2015 19:09:47 GMT
bojan and walters play well together
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Post by kustokie on Sept 11, 2015 19:53:19 GMT
Stoke win 11:1. Worth a fiver?
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Post by kustokie on Sept 11, 2015 19:55:52 GMT
FYI US Stokies. Right now scheduled for USAHD (which is channel 242 on Directv). Feature match on NBCHD (220) not announced. So they may switch it.
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Post by stokemanusa on Sept 11, 2015 21:02:18 GMT
Butland
Johnson Wilson Muniesa Pieters
Whelan Cameron
Shaqiri Bojan Arnautovic
Joselu
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Post by essexstokie70 on Sept 11, 2015 22:29:08 GMT
Walters stank the place out against Spurs for virtually every minute he was on. Why does he deserve a start? I don't get it, other than people like the fact he runs a lot. That and peddling the myth that he roughs people up.
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Post by samba :) on Sept 11, 2015 22:30:18 GMT
Walters stank the place out against Spurs for virtually every minute he was on. Why does he deserve a start? I don't get it, other than people like the fact he runs a lot. That and peddling the myth that he roughs people up. not a myth
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Post by enuntio on Sept 11, 2015 22:30:41 GMT
Arsenal must be really skint only offering a £ per ticket. Let's hope they're as crap on the pitch as off it
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