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Post by ukcstokie on Sept 4, 2015 23:36:45 GMT
Of course you take precautions, but that doesn't entail tarring all with the same brush. From the experience of history, forced migrants are on the whole are extremely grateful for their refuge, i would imagine that the good will oust the bad, self policing is in the interests of us all. I understand your fears though, no doubt we will have a price to pay for our compassion but i have absolutely no doubt that the price will be of a lower overall cost than it would be should we sit back and do nothing. Nobody is tarring them with all being members of ISIS. What non-sense. But we can't just let them all in without checks. "forced migrants are on the whole are extremely grateful for their refuge" - so why are all the pictures we're seeing are showing that the migrants don't seem to be happy with the safety of countries like Hungary, but want to move on to Germany and Scandinavia?
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Sept 4, 2015 23:36:44 GMT
For those who aren't sure this is a humanitarian crisis. It is not "illegal immigration" The number of people on here who are ignorant or thick or simply racist enough to not know the difference beggars belief. Hang your disgusting heads in shame. Like you .... You are once again proving yourself to an absolute idiot .....Ignorant and thick .! There is illegal immigration going on in great abundance along with many other breaches of international law but you simply haven't got the brains to appreciate the truth have you ? The only way this situation is going to improve is by stopping them from crossing . End of story . I was under the impression you were no longer responding to me? The only thick and ignorant idiot on here is you Mr pseudo socialist. Get back under your stone with your BNP/EDL mates or better still emigrate with them yes? Now take your keyboard bullying elsewhere..done with you.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Sept 4, 2015 23:38:04 GMT
Yes I noticed his errant behaviour too. I also noticed that Huddy's left sandal 'liked' the Post . A man who prides himself on being above such things . Left, left, left, right left marching on together bless them like a pair of blinkered lemmings marching towards the cliff(y) edge into oblivion just like the Labour party. Such a patriot...you're off to Spain soon are you not? Can you take your chum Mumf with you?
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Post by samba :) on Sept 4, 2015 23:40:18 GMT
Really we should be accepting refugees because we are the ones with the rest of the major European countries that didn't do anything about Islamic state
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Post by ukcstokie on Sept 4, 2015 23:51:54 GMT
Really we should be accepting refugees because we are the ones with the rest of the major European countries that didn't do anything about Islamic state Except the RAF have been flying air strikes against ISIS. Maybe we let the countries that haven't been fighting against ISIS to take the refugees then? Also, if we'd launched a full scale ground war against ISIS, the very same people criticising us for our lack of involvement in fighting ISIS, would be the ones blaming any future problems on our aggression.
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Post by samba :) on Sept 5, 2015 0:04:57 GMT
Really we should be accepting refugees because we are the ones with the rest of the major European countries that didn't do anything about Islamic state Except the RAF have been flying air strikes against ISIS. Maybe we let the countries that haven't been fighting against ISIS to take the refugees then? Also, if we'd launched a full scale ground war against ISIS, the very same people criticising us for our lack of involvement in fighting ISIS, would be the ones blaming any future problems on our aggression. We need to do something big that is over reported soon before the situation gets even worse
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Post by ukcstokie on Sept 5, 2015 0:17:20 GMT
Except the RAF have been flying air strikes against ISIS. Maybe we let the countries that haven't been fighting against ISIS to take the refugees then? Also, if we'd launched a full scale ground war against ISIS, the very same people criticising us for our lack of involvement in fighting ISIS, would be the ones blaming any future problems on our aggression. We need to do something big that is over reported soon before the situation gets even worse The problem is after the backlash against the west's actions in Iraq and Afghanistan their is no stomach for a land war against ISIS. What I can see happening is the EU deciding to pull the shutters up - but they'll need some reason for doing so. Expect some incident to be engineered accordingly.
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Post by derrida1437 on Sept 5, 2015 2:28:07 GMT
Really we should be accepting refugees because we are the ones with the rest of the major European countries that didn't do anything about Islamic state Except the RAF have been flying air strikes against ISIS. Maybe we let the countries that haven't been fighting against ISIS to take the refugees then? Also, if we'd launched a full scale ground war against ISIS, the very same people criticising us for our lack of involvement in fighting ISIS, would be the ones blaming any future problems on our aggression. No. The opposite. There's a four-way civil war going on in what used to be known as Syria and Iraq. ISIS/ISIL have blown the border apart and are threatening to further blur it into Lebanon, Egypt and across the rest of North Africa. Do you know exactly who you're sending ground troops in to fight? This isn't a "Stoke vs Vale" analogy. It's a perpetually fluid opposition. THAT'S why it's a humanitarian crisis - because nobody can just "go in and solve it."
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2015 6:50:53 GMT
"Light the touch paper" that's a great idea When I see one in the boothen ill Light it up Wouldn't Happen at Stoke frasie. We aren't a lefty club I dunno about that Harry, sir Peter Coates sends then sizeable donations And the majority of the public are pretty much lefties......but they are sick of being dumped on I understand what you mean tho
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Post by ukcstokie on Sept 5, 2015 9:46:55 GMT
Except the RAF have been flying air strikes against ISIS. Maybe we let the countries that haven't been fighting against ISIS to take the refugees then? Also, if we'd launched a full scale ground war against ISIS, the very same people criticising us for our lack of involvement in fighting ISIS, would be the ones blaming any future problems on our aggression. No. The opposite. There's a four-way civil war going on in what used to be known as Syria and Iraq. ISIS/ISIL have blown the border apart and are threatening to further blur it into Lebanon, Egypt and across the rest of North Africa. Do you know exactly who you're sending ground troops in to fight? This isn't a "Stoke vs Vale" analogy. It's a perpetually fluid opposition. THAT'S why it's a humanitarian crisis - because nobody can just "go in and solve it." Where have I suggested sending in ground troops? I haven't. It a humanitarian crisis - but the crisis has been moved to Europe because of the EU's decision. For once, the UK have got it right. Provide aid to the countries in the region with the refugee camps. Make the camps good enough that people will stay, waiting for the opportunity to return home. What the EU have actually done by indicating that people who arrive here will be allowed to stay just encourages the mass rush to come to here. And as the pictures show - the ones getting here first will be the strong (most of the ones heading to Germany are young men) and the wealthy (who can afford to pay the traffickers, pay for the trains and the taxis). Is that what we're suppose to do in a humanitarian crisis - help the strong and the wealthy? At least the UK will be taking refugees from the camps.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Sept 5, 2015 10:32:42 GMT
You might want to point out that Abdul Basit Haroun, whose advice the article is based on, is a government advisor...to the Libyan Government and that his comments are actually applicable to North African countries which IS has infiltrated and the migrants coming across the Mediterranean Sea - NOT the current Syrian refugee crisis. Furthermore, it should also be noted that "experts have cautioned that it is very difficult to verify or assess such claims.[/b] [/quote] I can tell you catagoricall that immigrants will often "lose" identity paperwork to make the verification process much more difficult. This is not a recent development.
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Post by ukcstokie on Sept 5, 2015 11:08:26 GMT
Dunno about anyone else but to me that was just a picture of some people on boats. I think you meant to say that you have "read reports of such occurrences" rather than "you have seen pictures" that have convinced you........still that wouldn't have reinforced your point so well would it. Are they really going to come over on the back of some fishing boat, with hundreds of others, with AK47 over one shoulder and an RPG over the other? To think that ISIS will not exploit this situation takes naivety to a whole new level. Still waiting for that Nigerian prince to send you over that $10million?
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Post by Skankmonkey on Sept 5, 2015 11:41:16 GMT
There is often an undercurrent, and occasionally a torrent, of generalised anti Islamic sentiment displayed in debates of this type on this board. The usual "patriotic" types are generally at the centre of it. I usually don't bother to engage, life is too short.
So...
Who has the most to gain from spreading a general unthinking Islamophobia in this country? The massacres, the war crimes, the atrocities, the vile videos, the rapes and the destruction of sites of antiquity are all perpetrated to provoke the West into a military response that can then be portrayed as an attack on all of Islam. Whose entire policy is based on escalating the evil in the middle east into an all out apocalyptic war between the religions?
Who is it that most wants you to hate Muslims?
The ex Baathist led gangster cult ISIS. That's who.
So...
If we are in a real war against terror, what would be the term for people who do the enemies work for them in our country? Just asking...
Have a contemplative weekend y'all.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2015 12:45:57 GMT
The thoughts of the posters on here merely reflects the views of society in general. It may not be an overall accurate percentage but it certainly gives you a good idea as to what many are concerned about. They don't have to be Pc correct either which is significant where honest views are concerned.
Bad news for those pro Islamists.
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Post by britsabroad on Sept 5, 2015 16:35:28 GMT
You can rest assured in 10 years time we shall regret opening the doors to all and sundry.
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Post by santy on Sept 5, 2015 16:44:25 GMT
One thing that tends to be the case in general across European/Western Society is we're absolutely excellent at one off gestures, big moments and the like.
Everyone involved gets to get that warm, fuzzy feeling associated with doing something good/beneficial and then goes back to their lives. Able to tell everyone they did their part. However, there is no immediate end to this in sight. What happens when in 6 months, or 12 months time when refugees are still coming? What happens in 2 or 3 years time if the issue still isn't resolved and yet more are coming who have had the chance? What happens if in 4 or 5 years time not only is it not resolved, but ISIS/ISIL/their replacement are still increasing the region in which they have an influence?
It's taken a couple of years to get this current bout of sympathy and acceptance, which will diminish. Will those people in the towns on the frontlines still feel as welcoming in the months to come when they're still arriving, still impacting upon their lives?
There seems to be no long term plan or thought about what happens after the immediate issue is (at least in the mind of decision makers) resolved.
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Post by derrida1437 on Sept 5, 2015 18:23:10 GMT
"Light the touch paper" that's a great idea When I see one in the boothen ill Light it up Wouldn't Happen at Stoke frasie. We aren't a lefty club Doesn't Stoke City Football Club completely subsidise away travel for fans and deliberately keep season tickets at a low price because Stoke-on-Trent is a poor area?
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Post by derrida1437 on Sept 5, 2015 18:49:13 GMT
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Post by stokeharry on Sept 5, 2015 19:05:16 GMT
Wouldn't Happen at Stoke frasie. We aren't a lefty club Doesn't Stoke City Football Club completely subsidise away travel for fans and deliberately keep season tickets at a low price because Stoke-on-Trent is a poor area? Doesn't mean we all welcome so called refugees though.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Sept 5, 2015 19:25:13 GMT
And herein lies the problem.
The more migrants/refugees/asylum seekers that come in...the greater the supply of cheap labour..and the lower the wages of unskilled labour.
Given that North Staffs is a low skill low wage area..you can understand the hostility towards immigration...It doesn't really affect the better off, the middle classes, the 'Professional' class..but it does affect ordinary working class people.
And this is why more and more people are turning to UKIP..not because they're 'Nasty Little Englanders' but because they are genuinely concerned about the effect that immigration has on themselves and their families.
Labour supporters need to listen to that message very carefully because if they ignore it they will never get back into Office again.
Steam trains or no steam trains.
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Post by crapslinger on Sept 5, 2015 19:48:13 GMT
Left, left, left, right left marching on together bless them like a pair of blinkered lemmings marching towards the cliff(y) edge into oblivion just like the Labour party. Such a patriot...you're off to Spain soon are you not? Can you take your chum Mumf with you? I have served my country, my dad served his country in Korea, my grandfather died fighting for this country, Bliar and his Labour cronies have allowed us to be invaded through the backdoor, it will only get worse so fuck it I am off, are you jealous 8-|you should be I am sure you will be happy supporting the dinosaur Corbyn. By the way I will be claiming nothing from the Spanish state when I move there, I do not expect hand out's from a system I have never contributed to nor should I or any one else in any country they chose to migrate to.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2015 7:50:34 GMT
And herein lies the problem. The more migrants/refugees/asylum seekers that come in...the greater the supply of cheap labour..and the lower the wages of unskilled labour. Given that North Staffs is a low skill low wage area..you can understand the hostility towards immigration...It doesn't really affect the better off, the middle classes, the 'Professional' class..but it does affect ordinary working class people. And this is why more and more people are turning to UKIP..not because they're 'Nasty Little Englanders' but because they are genuinely concerned about the effect that immigration has on themselves and their families. Labour supporters need to listen to that message very carefully because if they ignore it they will never get back into Office again. Steam trains or no steam trains. Very true. The Labour Party is on the brink for the reasons you describe.
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Post by derrida1437 on Sept 6, 2015 21:15:14 GMT
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Post by stoneroses on Sept 7, 2015 10:22:49 GMT
The thoughts of the posters on here merely reflects the views of society in general. It may not be an overall accurate percentage but it certainly gives you a good idea as to what many are concerned about. They don't have to be Pc correct either which is significant where honest views are concerned. Bad news for those pro Islamists. It certainly does reflect Stoke as an area not society, a few articulate, well thought out reasoned posts. The rest an absolute drivel of selfish nonsense with severe undertones of racism and elitism. Luckily similar to this board, Stoke as an area does not reflect the modern person or 80% of the rest of England. You also tend to find the "UKIP lot" express there views more freely and widely and the more reasoned people get on with there day to day lives with out outbursts. In terms of debates n this board i would never ever entertain trying to reason with a few on here...
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Post by desman2 on Sept 7, 2015 10:32:56 GMT
The thoughts of the posters on here merely reflects the views of society in general. It may not be an overall accurate percentage but it certainly gives you a good idea as to what many are concerned about. They don't have to be Pc correct either which is significant where honest views are concerned. Bad news for those pro Islamists. It certainly does reflect Stoke as an area not society, a few articulate, well thought out reasoned posts. The rest an absolute drivel of selfish nonsense with severe undertones of racism and elitism. Luckily similar to this board, Stoke as an area does not reflect the modern person or 80% of the rest of England. You also tend to find the "UKIP lot" express there views more freely and widely and the more reasoned people get on with there day to day lives with out outbursts. In terms of debates n this board i would never ever entertain trying to reason with a few on here... No. the Ukip lot as you call them express themselves as they do because they are not drones owned by the progressive left. How do you know what reflects the rest of the country concerning this subject. People have opinions of which they are perfectly entitled to have. Usually the response to those opinions is a stupid childish label or the like, rather than a "debate" as you call it.
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Post by crapslinger on Sept 7, 2015 10:48:08 GMT
It certainly does reflect Stoke as an area not society, a few articulate, well thought out reasoned posts. The rest an absolute drivel of selfish nonsense with severe undertones of racism and elitism. Luckily similar to this board, Stoke as an area does not reflect the modern person or 80% of the rest of England. You also tend to find the "UKIP lot" express there views more freely and widely and the more reasoned people get on with there day to day lives with out outbursts. In terms of debates n this board i would never ever entertain trying to reason with a few on here... No. the Ukip lot as you call them express themselves as they do because they are not drones owned by the progressive left. How do you know what reflects the rest of the country concerning this subject. People have opinions of which they are perfectly entitled to have. Usually the response to those opinions is a stupid childish label or the like, rather than a "debate" as you call it. The fact that 8 million people voted for UKIP in the last election all across the country is a fair reflection of how voters in the UK feel concerning this subject, no if's and buts many of them including myself are former Labour voters, that is a fact you may not want to hear it but it is nevertheless true.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2015 11:26:19 GMT
The thoughts of the posters on here merely reflects the views of society in general. It may not be an overall accurate percentage but it certainly gives you a good idea as to what many are concerned about. They don't have to be Pc correct either which is significant where honest views are concerned. Bad news for those pro Islamists. It certainly does reflect Stoke as an area not society, a few articulate, well thought out reasoned posts. The rest an absolute drivel of selfish nonsense with severe undertones of racism and elitism. Luckily similar to this board, Stoke as an area does not reflect the modern person or 80% of the rest of England. You also tend to find the "UKIP lot" express there views more freely and widely and the more reasoned people get on with there day to day lives with out outbursts. In terms of debates n this board i would never ever entertain trying to reason with a few on here... Reading that , you come across as someone who is very 'elitist '......! "Stoke as an area does not reflect the modern person " Are you saying that there Stoke doesn't represent society ......? Perhaps best if you don't engage us on here .....There's a good chance your argument will be ripped to pieces .
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Post by mrred on Sept 7, 2015 14:28:51 GMT
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Post by Gods on Sept 9, 2015 8:21:13 GMT
According to a UN report published this morning, Syria is now “just weeks away from a Bono charity single” We need to act fast to prevent further unimaginable suffering, that’s for sure
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Sept 9, 2015 18:41:50 GMT
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