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Post by stokeharry on Aug 27, 2015 22:12:53 GMT
Not to mention the treason him and his party committed towards the British people As I remember it there was an all out war rendered on the people by the Cons in the 80's & I think they want another go. Lovely people the ConsXx Same goes for Labour . Both selfish cunts
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Post by lommack on Aug 27, 2015 22:15:13 GMT
I've just watched news at ten and unless it was the main item (I missed the beginning) there was no mention of this atrocity.
Why wasn't IBS dragged in front of the press to explain himself?
I'm sure if 4,000 middle/upper class people had died, because of ideological cuts, it may have had a mention before the bank holiday weather
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 27, 2015 22:17:20 GMT
Ian Duncan Smith is an inadequate, he has failed at most things he has done, he as over inflated his qualifications, experiences and intelligence, he has now found a section of society he can blame for all the countries ills and he will persecute them until it rids him of his demons...... Remind you of anyone? Idi Amin?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 22:18:08 GMT
Abject poverty ....mmm.....
How many of you grew up on it . ?
Don't bother answering that one ....I already know the answer .
Everyone needs a safety net . I still have the imprint on my back . I don't like Tory liars either .....but this country has a very soft under belly that needs toughening up .
If you work for yourself & you have an accident or fall ill , then you don't have the luxury of sick pay . You have to get on with your life no matter what .
Broken wrists , operations , torn tendons , Plantar Fascitis , .......time off ......Fuck all .
Suck it and see .....Then get back to me .
Mumf
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Post by lommack on Aug 27, 2015 22:20:47 GMT
A race to the bottom then mumf
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Post by derrida1437 on Aug 27, 2015 22:23:13 GMT
Ian Duncan Smith is an inadequate, he has failed at most things he has done, he as over inflated his qualifications, experiences and intelligence, he has now found a section of society he can blame for all the countries ills and he will persecute them until it rids him of his demons...... Remind you of anyone? Idi Amin? Hmm....this should be fun
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 22:26:01 GMT
A race to the bottom then mumf Rather than testing my limited intelligence ....just tell what you mean ....then I'll answer you as best as my limited intelligence will allow,
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Post by lommack on Aug 27, 2015 22:36:23 GMT
Unless I have got you wrong then what your saying is if you are self employed then you don't get any help off the state if you're sick or have an accident
Are you then saying that you are/were self employed and have suffered in this way and survived so everyone should grow a pair of bollox and just get on with it?
If you are saying that then what you're advocating is indeed a race to the bottom.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 22:46:51 GMT
A race to the bottom of what ...?
Pride perhaps ?
I could retire tomorrow . In fact I could have retired ten years ago . I go out to work because I'm not idle and I don't want to sit on my idle fat arse doing nothing .
The difference is that British society is not like that in the main . We want everything for nothing . We don't want to work . We blame everyone but ourselves .
I call it our soft self underbelly of society .
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Post by desman2 on Aug 27, 2015 22:54:15 GMT
A race to the bottom of what ...? Pride perhaps ? I could retire tomorrow . In fact I could have retired ten years ago . I go out to work because I'm not idle and I don't want to sit on my idle fat arse doing nothing . The difference is that British society is not like that in the main . We want everything for nothing . We don't want to work . We blame everyone but ourselves . I call it our self underbelly of society . Isnt that the whole problem mumf. If you provide rent council tax and a wad for yourselves and even more everytime you drop a kid then it removes the will to do anything for yourself. If you then go to the other end of the scale, then take a carer. They get £60 a week for doing the job the council /government used to do but they get no extra help, even having to pay for prescriptions. In effect they are actually working but get treated like shit while the scum of the earth get a decent return.
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Post by derrida1437 on Aug 27, 2015 23:03:11 GMT
The biggest drain on the welfare bill by a country mile is pensioners.
There is an argument to suggest the government should start looking at means-testing the state pension for those who clearly don't need it. They've already de facto started looking at means-testing free TV licenses.
I'm not saying it's right or wrong (make your own mind up) but it would certainly sort the wheat from the chaff.
Race to the bottom indeed......
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Post by lommack on Aug 27, 2015 23:06:04 GMT
Want everything for nothing? Like what;
A safe place to work An employer that has a legal responsibility to maintain a safe place to work An employer that if it breaks that responsibility will meet the full force of the law An employer that may actually share just a small percentage of its vast profits with its workforce etc. etc. etc. etc.
How about a country That looks after its old Its disabled Its weak and its sick And not a country that vilifies that section of society like some sort of parasite
Soft underbelly my ring piece, some of us do need to grow some bollox and stop blaming each other just because the government does
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Post by desman2 on Aug 27, 2015 23:10:58 GMT
Want everything for nothing? Like what; A safe place to work An employer that has a legal responsibility to maintain a safe place to work An employer that if it breaks that responsibility will meet the full force of the law An employer that may actually share just a small percentage of its vast profits with its workforce etc. etc. etc. etc. How about a country That looks after its old Its disabled Its weak and its sick And not a country that vilifies that section of society like some sort of parasite Soft underbelly my ring piece, some of us do need to grow some bollox and stop blaming each other just because the government does They probably pick on these two particular groups because they probably consist of large numbers of non voters especially the elderly who need care and the people with mental disbilities. What alot of people forget is that they will certainly end up in one of those catagories but possibly both.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 23:18:12 GMT
I was a carer for my mother from the age of 10 until she died when I was 42.. In all that time , I never received a penny . I never expected any or asked for any . I worked hard and was extremely well paid .
I was not well paid between the ages of 10 - 25 however .
I survived on next doors kid' hand me downs . ' This was the 70 's .....No phone , no car , no fridge , no coloured TV , no nothing ....
We had an outside shitter and and a small garden where meat was kept cool by burying it in a earthenware pot underneath the air raid shelter .
Some of the bullshit spouted by the comfortable left wing Trotsky's on here beggars fucking belief or honesty .....
None of them to a man has experienced true fucking poverty . None of them was digging out coal or doing night time raids into Cheshire for potatoes or other vegetables .....
They make me laugh ...they really do . I've shit better .....I'll take no lessons of social injustice from these clowns .
I buried my dad wearing clothes obtained by emergency clothing vouchers (Taylor's Supermarket Tunstall )when I was 12 forging my mothers signature because she was too proud to accept help.
I still remember the indignity of queuing for free school meals every Monday morning ...there was 3 of us ...and I can still name them 40 years on ...
The tickets were yellow .
The same colour as some of the spineless cowards on here .
Good. Night Chaps ...another 16 hour day beckons.
Mumf
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Post by lommack on Aug 27, 2015 23:26:06 GMT
How do you know what other peoples lives have been like?
Perhaps, because of your experiences, you should be fighting for a better future for the kids/old/disabled/sick of today instead of the "I put up with it so should you" attitude
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 23:31:23 GMT
How do you know what other peoples lives have been like? Perhaps you should be fighting for a better future for the kids/old/disabled/sick of today then instead of the "I put up with it so should you" attitude Tell you what ....you tell me honestly what your upbringing and social experiences was like and I invite the rest to do the same . Start off with where you lived ....etc etc ... Then I'll consider your excuses . Off you go ....
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Post by lastoftheldk on Aug 27, 2015 23:37:08 GMT
I was a carer for my mother from the age of 10 until she died when I was 42.. In all that time , I never received a penny . I never expected any or asked for any . I worked hard and was extremely well paid . I was not well paid between the ages of 10 - 25 however . I survived on next doors kid' hand me downs . ' This was the 70 's .....No phone , no car , no fridge , no coloured TV , no nothing .... We had an outside shitter and and a small garden where meat was kept cool by burying it in a earthenware pot underneath the air raid shelter . Some of the bullshit spouted by the comfortable left wing Trotsky's on here beggars fucking belief or honesty ..... None of them to a man has experienced true fucking poverty . None of them was digging out coal or doing night time raids into Cheshire for potatoes or other vegetables ..... They make me laugh ...they really do . I've shit better .....I'll take no lessons of social injustice from these clowns . I buried my dad in wearing clothes obtained by emergency clothing vouchers when I was 12 forging my mothers signature because she was too proud to accept help. I still remember the indignity of queuing for free school meals every Monday morning ...there was 3 of us ...and I can still name them 40 years on ... The tickets were yellow . The same colour as some of the spineless cowards on here . Good. Night Chaps ...another 16 hour day beckons. Mumf Mumf, you would think that a country would look after its war heros better, (your father)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 23:41:25 GMT
My father threw away his medals the day he was demobbed . That's what he thought of the war . He was not a war hero . He was one of many .
He died in April 75 .
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Post by salopstick on Aug 28, 2015 4:55:38 GMT
The data does not contain a breakdown of how the people died.
Of the 2,380, 1,340 died after appealing against their decisions, though it is not known what proportion of those appeals were successful or failed.
The DWP said it did not hold the information on the reason for the deaths which meant no link could be drawn between the WCA decision and the number of people who died.
But the data showed a decline in the mortality rate of all benefit claimants
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 28, 2015 6:07:41 GMT
I'd like an independent expert go through these figures and draw appropriate conclusions. You may recall the same concerns over a previous ATOS report that 10,600 people had died under similar circumstances - only for the data subsequently shown to be pants. That's the problem with stats - they aren't always what they seem.
Both Labour and the Tories are committed to welfare reform - for good reason. Not just cost, but the current system does provide a disincentive to some not to work. Of course there is more than one factor behind this and more than one approach to address it. The current Tory policy needs to be properly scrutinised (I'll not hold my breath though - as I wouldn't for any Government of whatever hue)
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Post by lawrieleslie on Aug 28, 2015 6:26:52 GMT
The data does not contain a breakdown of how the people died. Of the 2,380, 1,340 died after appealing against their decisions, though it is not known what proportion of those appeals were successful or failed. The DWP said it did not hold the information on the reason for the deaths which meant no link could be drawn between the WCA decision and the number of people who died. But the data showed a decline in the mortality rate of all benefit claimants Statistics can tell you anything you want them to. .....how about "of the 2m people the new WCA put back into work, 98% have found jobs that suit them". Of course we don't know that these 1.98m are in suitable jobs the same way that you cannot say that those 2000 died because they had to return to work. It's like blaming old age for people's deaths. Unfortunately the media and politicians are good at reading what they want to into statistical information.
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Post by salopstick on Aug 28, 2015 6:58:32 GMT
The data does not contain a breakdown of how the people died. Of the 2,380, 1,340 died after appealing against their decisions, though it is not known what proportion of those appeals were successful or failed. The DWP said it did not hold the information on the reason for the deaths which meant no link could be drawn between the WCA decision and the number of people who died. But the data showed a decline in the mortality rate of all benefit claimants Statistics can tell you anything you want them to. .....how about "of the 2m people the new WCA put back into work, 98% have found jobs that suit them". Of course we don't know that these 1.98m are in suitable jobs the same way that you cannot say that those 2000 died because they had to return to work. It's like blaming old age for people's deaths. Unfortunately the media and politicians are good at reading what they want to into statistical information. and the usual left wing posters on here.
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Post by bathstoke on Aug 28, 2015 7:43:38 GMT
I was a carer for my mother from the age of 10 until she died when I was 42.. In all that time , I never received a penny . I never expected any or asked for any . I worked hard and was extremely well paid . I was not well paid between the ages of 10 - 25 however . I survived on next doors kid' hand me downs . ' This was the 70 's .....No phone , no car , no fridge , no coloured TV , no nothing .... We had an outside shitter and and a small garden where meat was kept cool by burying it in a earthenware pot underneath the air raid shelter . Some of the bullshit spouted by the comfortable left wing Trotsky's on here beggars fucking belief or honesty ..... None of them to a man has experienced true fucking poverty . None of them was digging out coal or doing night time raids into Cheshire for potatoes or other vegetables ..... They make me laugh ...they really do . I've shit better .....I'll take no lessons of social injustice from these clowns . I buried my dad wearing clothes obtained by emergency clothing vouchers (Taylor's Supermarket Tunstall )when I was 12 forging my mothers signature because she was too proud to accept help. I still remember the indignity of queuing for free school meals every Monday morning ...there was 3 of us ...and I can still name them 40 years on ... The tickets were yellow . The same colour as some of the spineless cowards on here . Good. Night Chaps ...another 16 hour day beckons. Mumf Yes, Yes, Yes, but are you a happy man mumf...
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Post by Rick Grimes on Aug 28, 2015 7:43:16 GMT
The data does not contain a breakdown of how the people died. Of the 2,380, 1,340 died after appealing against their decisions, though it is not known what proportion of those appeals were successful or failed. The DWP said it did not hold the information on the reason for the deaths which meant no link could be drawn between the WCA decision and the number of people who died. But the data showed a decline in the mortality rate of all benefit claimants The figures can be queried but even just one death as a direct consequence of benefits being cut is one too many in a modern society like ours.
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Post by Rick Grimes on Aug 28, 2015 8:28:32 GMT
I was a carer for my mother from the age of 10 until she died when I was 42.. In all that time , I never received a penny . I never expected any or asked for any . I worked hard and was extremely well paid . I was not well paid between the ages of 10 - 25 however . I survived on next doors kid' hand me downs . ' This was the 70 's .....No phone , no car , no fridge , no coloured TV , no nothing .... We had an outside shitter and and a small garden where meat was kept cool by burying it in a earthenware pot underneath the air raid shelter . Some of the bullshit spouted by the comfortable left wing Trotsky's on here beggars fucking belief or honesty ..... None of them to a man has experienced true fucking poverty . None of them was digging out coal or doing night time raids into Cheshire for potatoes or other vegetables ..... They make me laugh ...they really do . I've shit better .....I'll take no lessons of social injustice from these clowns . I buried my dad wearing clothes obtained by emergency clothing vouchers (Taylor's Supermarket Tunstall )when I was 12 forging my mothers signature because she was too proud to accept help. I still remember the indignity of queuing for free school meals every Monday morning ...there was 3 of us ...and I can still name them 40 years on ... The tickets were yellow . The same colour as some of the spineless cowards on here . Good. Night Chaps ...another 16 hour day beckons. Mumf Your condescending tone as ever is very tiresome mumf, despite what you claim you don't have to have suffered abject poverty to be able to recognise social injustice.
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Post by fentoninbloom on Aug 28, 2015 8:51:10 GMT
I was a carer for my mother from the age of 10 until she died when I was 42.. In all that time , I never received a penny . I never expected any or asked for any . I worked hard and was extremely well paid . I was not well paid between the ages of 10 - 25 however . I survived on next doors kid' hand me downs . ' This was the 70 's .....No phone , no car , no fridge , no coloured TV , no nothing .... We had an outside shitter and and a small garden where meat was kept cool by burying it in a earthenware pot underneath the air raid shelter . Some of the bullshit spouted by the comfortable left wing Trotsky's on here beggars fucking belief or honesty ..... None of them to a man has experienced true fucking poverty . None of them was digging out coal or doing night time raids into Cheshire for potatoes or other vegetables ..... They make me laugh ...they really do . I've shit better .....I'll take no lessons of social injustice from these clowns . I buried my dad wearing clothes obtained by emergency clothing vouchers (Taylor's Supermarket Tunstall )when I was 12 forging my mothers signature because she was too proud to accept help. I still remember the indignity of queuing for free school meals every Monday morning ...there was 3 of us ...and I can still name them 40 years on ... The tickets were yellow . The same colour as some of the spineless cowards on here . Good. Night Chaps ...another 16 hour day beckons. Mumf
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Post by derrida1437 on Aug 28, 2015 9:07:31 GMT
I'd like an independent expert go through these figures and draw appropriate conclusions. You may recall the same concerns over a previous ATOS report that 10,600 people had died under similar circumstances - only for the data subsequently shown to be pants. That's the problem with stats - they aren't always what they seem. Both Labour and the Tories are committed to welfare reform - for good reason. Not just cost, but the current system does provide a disincentive to some not to work. Of course there is more than one factor behind this and more than one approach to address it. The current Tory policy needs to be properly scrutinised (I'll not hold my breath though - as I wouldn't for any Government of whatever hue) I agree with the first paragraph. The argument about the changes to welfare being brought in by the Tories and largely supported by UKIP are that, rather than providing an incentive for those who can work, they're unjustly penalising those who genuinely can't. Why withdraw the Education Support Allowance for poor children going to college? Why penalise under 25's by not allowing them to claim housing benefit if they lose their job? Why change housing benefit so that, if you’re single and under 35, you can only get Housing Benefit for bed-sit accommodation or a single room in shared accommodation...UNLESS you're a pensioner? Why are under 18's not allowed to claim JSA if they lose their job? All of this is on top of inheritance tax breaks being given to the very wealthy and where pensioners (the biggest welfare demographic group) are untouched by austerity. If all was fair everything would get means tested, including the state pension, so that those who don't need it don't get it. The problem with IDS is that he's extremely selective with whom he attacks. "The largest proportion of Britain's benefit spending went on state pensions, accounting for 47% of total yearly payments. In 2011-12, £74.22bn was spent on state pensions, while more than £48.2bn went on the UK servicing its own debt. Jobseekers' Allowance accounts for one of the smallest percentages of UK welfare payments, at £4.91bn." www.ibtimes.co.uk/uk-benefits-welfare-jobseeker-s-allowance-immigrants-462373
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 28, 2015 11:31:36 GMT
I'd like an independent expert go through these figures and draw appropriate conclusions. You may recall the same concerns over a previous ATOS report that 10,600 people had died under similar circumstances - only for the data subsequently shown to be pants. That's the problem with stats - they aren't always what they seem. Both Labour and the Tories are committed to welfare reform - for good reason. Not just cost, but the current system does provide a disincentive to some not to work. Of course there is more than one factor behind this and more than one approach to address it. The current Tory policy needs to be properly scrutinised (I'll not hold my breath though - as I wouldn't for any Government of whatever hue) I agree with the first paragraph. The argument about the changes to welfare being brought in by the Tories and largely supported by UKIP are that, rather than providing an incentive for those who can work, they're unjustly penalising those who genuinely can't. Why withdraw the Education Support Allowance for poor children going to college? Why penalise under 25's by not allowing them to claim housing benefit if they lose their job? Why change housing benefit so that, if you’re single and under 35, you can only get Housing Benefit for bed-sit accommodation or a single room in shared accommodation...UNLESS you're a pensioner? Why are under 18's not allowed to claim JSA if they lose their job? All of this is on top of inheritance tax breaks being given to the very wealthy and where pensioners (the biggest welfare demographic group) are untouched by austerity. If all was fair everything would get means tested, including the state pension, so that those who don't need it don't get it. The problem with IDS is that he's extremely selective with whom he attacks. "The largest proportion of Britain's benefit spending went on state pensions, accounting for 47% of total yearly payments. In 2011-12, £74.22bn was spent on state pensions, while more than £48.2bn went on the UK servicing its own debt. Jobseekers' Allowance accounts for one of the smallest percentages of UK welfare payments, at £4.91bn." www.ibtimes.co.uk/uk-benefits-welfare-jobseeker-s-allowance-immigrants-462373I think you agree with both paragraphs. The second says welfare reform is necessary - but policies need scrutiny. I wasn't offering an opinion. You are scrutinising the Tories' policy and find it wanting. I'm not familiar with the detail of some of your points, but I have no doubt the Tories, in seeking to find a solution, are careless about what happens along the way. It's how they have always been. Take your medicine, stiff upper lip etc...
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Post by lawrieleslie on Aug 28, 2015 12:28:50 GMT
I'd like an independent expert go through these figures and draw appropriate conclusions. You may recall the same concerns over a previous ATOS report that 10,600 people had died under similar circumstances - only for the data subsequently shown to be pants. That's the problem with stats - they aren't always what they seem. Both Labour and the Tories are committed to welfare reform - for good reason. Not just cost, but the current system does provide a disincentive to some not to work. Of course there is more than one factor behind this and more than one approach to address it. The current Tory policy needs to be properly scrutinised (I'll not hold my breath though - as I wouldn't for any Government of whatever hue) I agree with the first paragraph. The argument about the changes to welfare being brought in by the Tories and largely supported by UKIP are that, rather than providing an incentive for those who can work, they're unjustly penalising those who genuinely can't. Why withdraw the Education Support Allowance for poor children going to college? Why penalise under 25's by not allowing them to claim housing benefit if they lose their job? Why change housing benefit so that, if you’re single and under 35, you can only get Housing Benefit for bed-sit accommodation or a single room in shared accommodation...UNLESS you're a pensioner? Why are under 18's not allowed to claim JSA if they lose their job? All of this is on top of inheritance tax breaks being given to the very wealthy and where pensioners (the biggest welfare demographic group) are untouched by austerity. If all was fair everything would get means tested, including the state pension, so that those who don't need it don't get it. The problem with IDS is that he's extremely selective with whom he attacks. "The largest proportion of Britain's benefit spending went on state pensions, accounting for 47% of total yearly payments. In 2011-12, £74.22bn was spent on state pensions, while more than £48.2bn went on the UK servicing its own debt. Jobseekers' Allowance accounts for one of the smallest percentages of UK welfare payments, at £4.91bn." www.ibtimes.co.uk/uk-benefits-welfare-jobseeker-s-allowance-immigrants-462373Education Maintenance Allowance was paid to every post 16 student whose parents were earning less than £30k on a sliding scale so that if they were earning £15k or less then the student would have the full £34 a week EMA. It was open to abuse because students and their parents saw it as payment for going to school and not knowing that it could be withdrawn because of poor attendance, lack of effort and less than good behaviour. In addition there were two bonus payments of up to £200 throughout the school year if students targets had been met. All in all a nice little earner for students of up to £1700 for a 39 week academic year for going to school. This is why it was stopped and has been replaced by a bursary system that targets those in real need of financial support
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Post by mattador78 on Aug 28, 2015 12:43:55 GMT
Ian Duncan Smith is an inadequate, he has failed at most things he has done, he as over inflated his qualifications, experiences and intelligence, he has now found a section of society he can blame for all the countries ills and he will persecute them until it rids him of his demons...... Remind you of anyone? 99.9% of all politicians
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