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Post by Bojan Mackey on Aug 21, 2015 20:37:23 GMT
Marc Muniesa outmuscled and outjumped the marauding behemoth that is Andy Carroll. The suggestion that he isn't strong enough to be a Centre Back in the Premiership is complete and total unsubstantiated bollocks. But got absolutely owned against Blackburn. In fairness they all did, a horror show all round that day.
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Post by st4scfc on Aug 21, 2015 21:05:05 GMT
we still need a centre half even when shawx is fit.If we want to play at the next level Wolly Wilson make to any mistakes Muni great player but not strong enough.also Cameron is the man to replace zonz. So you would like 7 fit CBs on the books? Do you know the squad playing limit is 25 right? MH rates Wollscheid, even if you and others dont. The only way we will get a new CB is either a short term loan now or if Wilson and/or Bardsley are gone before September. Cameron is NOT the man to replace N'Zonzi by any stretch of the imagination. if pulis loses his leftback lescott he is sure to come in for the best left back in the league (tp's words). Suprised he hasn't allready but we all know he's active at the end of the window
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Post by foxysgloves on Aug 21, 2015 21:09:07 GMT
Why did we go ahead with Wolly's signing. Enough was seen last season to see he is a liability. I think MH has done a seriously top class job. He's clearly a great manager. But Texeiera and Wolly really really worry me. They look way short of what we need if we're to become a genuine top half side. I'd love to see us sign a no nonsense old fashioned central defender to complement the class footballers we now have in the side.
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 21, 2015 21:12:55 GMT
Marc Muniesa outmuscled and outjumped the marauding behemoth that is Andy Carroll. The suggestion that he isn't strong enough to be a Centre Back in the Premiership is complete and total unsubstantiated bollocks. But got absolutely owned against Blackburn. Not as owned as his CB partner that day.
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 21, 2015 21:15:04 GMT
Why did we go ahead with Wolly's signing. Enough was seen last season to see he is a liability. I think MH has done a seriously top class job. He's clearly a great manager. But Texeiera and Wolly really really worry me. They look way short of what we need if we're to become a genuine top half side. I'd love to see us sign a no nonsense old fashioned central defender to complement the class footballers we now have in the side. Someone like Robert Huth but not Robert Huth you mean, what a complete fuck up that was really do not understand that decision never will.
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Post by Davef on Aug 21, 2015 21:19:37 GMT
Marc Muniesa outmuscled and outjumped the marauding behemoth that is Andy Carroll. The suggestion that he isn't strong enough to be a Centre Back in the Premiership is complete and total unsubstantiated bollocks. But got absolutely owned against Blackburn. So what? Chelsea leaked four goals at home to Bradford in the FA Cup with a defence featuring Cahill, Azpilicueta and Zouma. Man City lost at home to Middlesbrough with Kompany, Zabaletta and Kolarov playing. Muniesa has performed well enough at Premier League level not to have one ropey performance brought up time and again.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Aug 21, 2015 22:03:53 GMT
But got absolutely owned against Blackburn. So what? Chelsea leaked four goals at home to Bradford in the FA Cup with a defence featuring Cahill, Azpilicueta and Zouma. Man City lost at home to Middlesbrough with Kompany, Zabaletta and Kolarov playing. Muniesa has performed well enough at Premier League level not to have one ropey performance brought up time and again. Personally I think he's alrate but his hit and miss ability to fight off taller players is a concern.
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Post by malteser68 on Aug 21, 2015 22:05:43 GMT
Out of the 7 CBs we have, the best one is out injured for the best part of the season; so that leaves us with 6; 2 of them - the current pairing Muniesa and Cameron - are not proper CBs and could be extremely useful playing in other positions; so that leaves us with 4; 2 of those 4 - Tex and Wolly - are as crap as crap can be and would only be fielded in the event of a cataclysmic emergency; so that leaves us with 2; out of those 2, 1 of them - Wilson - is not exactly rock solid and very prone to a fatal mistake every odd game and we are only hoping that he's fit and all in order to avert the catastrophic situation of having to field Wolly or, worse still, the completely useless Dionatan Teixeira, so I wouldn't say that an up-grade on Wilson wouldn't be welcome; the 7th CB I honestly don't know who you're referring to In view of the above I believe that yes, a good CB would definitely be a great addition to the squad. I would pinpoint Teixeira as the first one in the queue heading towards the exit door, followed closely by Sidwell and - sadly - by Odemwingie who looks to be rather surplus to requirements and who I don't believe will come back to his old self after a year out injured at his age If you would like to read the post again, the 7th CB would be the additional one the OP suggested... Admittedly, you gave a nice critique however, just because you personally dont like some of the options, where exactly are you fitting them in? Or do you want to just leave 3 or 4 players earning a big wage, out of the 25 doing fuck all for 4 months? As we have learned very well these last 7 years, getting rid of your unwanted players isn't exactly easy. so what do you suggest - actually PLAYING the unwanted players ?
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Post by malteser68 on Aug 21, 2015 22:06:51 GMT
perhaps I did not explain myself well. By describing muni as not being a 'proper CB' I did not intend this to be a disparaging remark in Any way; on the contrary what I meant to say is that muni is not fixed to that one position as he is s Very versatile player who can perform admirably in other positions both in defence and midfield. Much the same applies to Geoff So they shouldn't play as centre backs because they can play elsewhere? And I don't think Muni has ever played in midfield for us either. yes muni has played in midfield for sure
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Post by ayem on Aug 21, 2015 22:37:28 GMT
Out of the 7 CBs we have, the best one is out injured for the best part of the season; so that leaves us with 6; 2 of them - the current pairing Muniesa and Cameron - are not proper CBs and could be extremely useful playing in other positions; so that leaves us with 4; 2 of those 4 - Tex and Wolly - are as crap as crap can be and would only be fielded in the event of a cataclysmic emergency; so that leaves us with 2; out of those 2, 1 of them - Wilson - is not exactly rock solid and very prone to a fatal mistake every odd game and we are only hoping that he's fit and all in order to avert the catastrophic situation of having to field Wolly or, worse still, the completely useless Dionatan Teixeira, so I wouldn't say that an up-grade on Wilson wouldn't be welcome; the 7th CB I honestly don't know who you're referring to In view of the above I believe that yes, a good CB would definitely be a great addition to the squad. I would pinpoint Teixeira as the first one in the queue heading towards the exit door, followed closely by Sidwell and - sadly - by Odemwingie who looks to be rather surplus to requirements and who I don't believe will come back to his old self after a year out injured at his age Muniesa absolutely is a proper centre back but agree we need someone in. Muniesa is quality at cb. People think he's too small which he isn't. To my knowledge he's been knocked off the ball once so far. By benteke. Even Huth would struggle against that mass of man. Plus Muniesa is faster and smarter.
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Post by Mint Berry Barks on Aug 22, 2015 3:33:16 GMT
The old 'Muniesa isn't big enough and/or strong enough to be a center back' is one of the most annoying, outdated and shittest tropes on this site.
I often wonder people actually watch the matches.
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Post by bertiestan on Aug 22, 2015 3:42:19 GMT
There was clearly something in the loan agreement with wolly hence the permanent signing.
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Post by thedeadlyshart on Aug 22, 2015 4:10:52 GMT
So they shouldn't play as centre backs because they can play elsewhere? And I don't think Muni has ever played in midfield for us either. yes muni has played in midfield for sure once. It was the last ten minutes of the match at the etihad last season. He played on the left in front of pieters as we tried to hold on to the lead. He's never played dm for us, even in preseason.
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Post by adamsson on Aug 22, 2015 6:38:53 GMT
The old 'Muniesa isn't big enough and/or strong enough to be a center back' is one of the most annoying, outdated and shittest tropes on this site. I often wonder people actually watch the matches. It is a well known fact that a proper centre half has to be at least 6' 6" and 17 stone like Sonko or Paul Williams
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2015 8:33:22 GMT
Diers goal fro a set piece last week shows how vulnerable we have become in set piece situations. Huth and Shawcross gave very little away. I rate Muniesa highly but currently we lack height in the area and it detracts for all the other good things Hughes has created
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 22, 2015 10:55:37 GMT
Jonny Evans not in the 18 for Man United today. TP linked with him again. link
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Post by mrpickles on Aug 22, 2015 10:59:14 GMT
Jonny Evans not in the 18 for Man United today. TP linked with him again. linkApparently, he wasn't at training one day in the week and United refused to give a reason. Straight after, West Broms odds to sign him took a battering. With Fazio supposedly stalling too, then it could be a bit of a goer this one.
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Post by a.d.faye.god on Aug 22, 2015 11:35:29 GMT
Sorry for the essay this will be, tl;dr version: we don't need a centre back, it would be expensive and cause problems later on, get a young left back and do some set piece training instead.
I honestly wonder if some people are trolling really hard on this thread.
Shawcross and Muniesa are our first choice centre back pairing and that is a brilliant partnership in the making. Its better than Shawcross and Huth are now, and (I would argue) better than Shawcross and Huth ever was. Shawcross and Huth were fantastic, unparalleled in terms of fire and brimstone, solid set up, aerial dominance old school centre backs. BUT they had limitations as a pairing (partly due to the way Pulis set up the team in fairness) related to recycling the ball and pace. Muniesa is not Huth. He isn't as strong and he isn't as tall, but he jumps higher, he reads the game at least as well, he carries the ball immeasurably better and his distribution is in a different league. He has shown over and again that he can mark the big man up front - so what's the worry? He will have Shawcross next to him when he is fit. Its a great partnership - I'm excited to see it. It would be stupid to bring in a centre back for big money that would unsettle that when Shawcross is back.
By January, Shawcross should be fit and raring to go. Nothing coming out of the club suggests the operation went badly, his recovery should take about three months. Fine. If the worst happens, we would have to get a proper, fully fledged replacement for Shawcross IN JANUARY. That will be expensive, and hard to do - as it would be now, and we would be stupid (in my opinion) to spend a lot of time and money doing so now, when the ideal man should be back in the team by December anyway.
So that means we need to use back up. Like we have done in various positions for shorter or longer periods of time for every season ever. So does every club. The cover we have is good. It looks different, and is a bit strange to deal with, because Shawcross and Huth it isn't. BUT Muniesa and Cameron is a good pairing for a few months. They cover each other well and seem to enjoy playing next to each other. Cameron was one of the bright sparks of a disjointed pre-season and seems to be enjoying/stepping up to the responsibility of covering for Shawcross. Its fine for the time they will be needed.
If there is another injury to Cameron or Muniesa, firstly that would be really unlucky, but hopefully it would be for a couple of games here and there - Wollscheid and Wilson will cover fine for that. Texeira seems more and more like a failed experiment. It happens, he was cheap. If we sign a big name centre back with a big ego for big money now, I think it will cause us problems now and more when Shawcross comes back. It will disrupt a fairly solid pairing (Cameron and Muniesa) and risk pissing off a number of established squad members (Cameron, Wollscheid, Wilson). Plus, assuming the new guy was a big strong Shawcross type (which is what people seem to want), what happens when Ryan is fit again? Its obvious MH wants a little and large type pairing back there, for the speed, distribution etc that Muniesa offers. So who is going to miss out - the new guy or Shawcross? The only way we could play both, and fill the hole that Shawcross is leaving, is finding a monster that can play the ball like a Barca player. I don't know of one that exists that would cost less than £15m to buy, and that would be daft.
Yes we need to improve on set pieces, but that is a set up issue, not a playing staff issue. Buying a big name centre back now ahead of a big name defensive midfield player would be mad. We let Huth go to a club where he was clearly loving his football, which he wasn't really under Hughes - he was uncomfortable with how he was being asked to play. Yes he could probably have done us a job, but he would know he was going to be dropped as soon as Shawcross was fit again - would he really be up for that?
What we need is left back cover. If Pieters picks up an injury, we either need to drag Muniesa out of position or put Wilson at left back again. Neither is a good option. A young left back should be easy enough to find on loan. Save the pennies so we can get Sergi Roberto in during the January window and stop panicking!
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Post by st4scfc on Aug 22, 2015 12:01:12 GMT
Thing is if we get van djik or lescott in muniesa could do a good job in whelans role aswell.
Good move all around if we get one in imo
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Post by MilanStokie on Aug 22, 2015 12:13:44 GMT
If you would like to read the post again, the 7th CB would be the additional one the OP suggested... Admittedly, you gave a nice critique however, just because you personally dont like some of the options, where exactly are you fitting them in? Or do you want to just leave 3 or 4 players earning a big wage, out of the 25 doing fuck all for 4 months? As we have learned very well these last 7 years, getting rid of your unwanted players isn't exactly easy. so what do you suggest - actually PLAYING the unwanted players ? You dont half jump a few steps when replying. Who said that? A squad of 25 is bound to have a few players who wont get games. We have a selection of youngsters who should be getting the odd appearance rather than signing another option. Bardsley for example, should either be in the 25 or sold, but if we had to leave him in the reserves until January on his wage, I would be a bit annoyed. Same goes for Sidwell. Both, although not my preferred choices, are more than capable of playing in our team when called upon. You cannot just upgrade at every opportunity though, we aren't there yet. For me, I'd be happy with a short term loan to replace Ryan. Evans or Collins would be fine, but we shouldn't be looking at signing anyone for £8m at the back right now.
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Post by MilanStokie on Aug 22, 2015 12:21:29 GMT
Thing is if we get van djik or lescott in muniesa could do a good job in whelans role aswell. Good move all around if we get one in imo If MH ever intended to use Muniesa in midfield, he would have by now. He hasn't and is unlikely to ever try it. Can we please forget this notion that is suggested on every Muniesa or Central Midfield related thread?
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Post by lordb on Aug 22, 2015 12:36:38 GMT
The old 'Muniesa isn't big enough and/or strong enough to be a center back' is one of the most annoying, outdated and shittest tropes on this site. I often wonder people actually watch the matches. That was my concern when he was first touted there. More than delighted that he's killed that concern. Ryan and Muniesa looks a perfect pairing. Shame we will have to wait for that. Been quietly impressed with Geoff at CB so far,much better positionaly/more disciplined than he is at right back. Can Geoff be consistent? Having said all this I still really like Muniesa at left back and many have touted him in centre midfield. Centre backs tend to get more suspensions and injuries so Wollscheid and Wilson will be important.
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 22, 2015 12:38:09 GMT
re Muniesa...
Mark Bowen was on the radio last week and he specifically mentioned his ablity to play in midfield.
Don't suppose we'll ever know how seriously that's ever being considered until it actually ever happens.
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Post by malteser68 on Aug 22, 2015 12:42:03 GMT
so what do you suggest - actually PLAYING the unwanted players ? You dont half jump a few steps when replying. Who said that? A squad of 25 is bound to have a few players who wont get games. We have a selection of youngsters who should be getting the odd appearance rather than signing another option. Bardsley for example, should either be in the 25 or sold, but if we had to leave him in the reserves until January on his wage, I would be a bit annoyed. Same goes for Sidwell. Both, although not my preferred choices, are more than capable of playing in our team when called upon. You cannot just upgrade at every opportunity though, we aren't there yet. For me, I'd be happy with a short term loan to replace Ryan. Evans or Collins would be fine, but we shouldn't be looking at signing anyone for £8m at the back right now. Oh yes Sitwell is very capable of fucking up points for us on each and every occasion he sets his feet on the field just saw a repeat of his utterly stupid tackle on coutinho opening up a highway for him to go on and score he's crap and should be nowhere near the squad ship him off to whoever we still have quite a bit if dead weed and he heads the queue alongside the equally hopeless teixeira
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Post by lordb on Aug 22, 2015 12:53:52 GMT
Sorry for the essay this will be, tl;dr version: we don't need a centre back, it would be expensive and cause problems later on, get a young left back and do some set piece training instead. I honestly wonder if some people are trolling really hard on this thread. Shawcross and Muniesa are our first choice centre back pairing and that is a brilliant partnership in the making. Its better than Shawcross and Huth are now, and (I would argue) better than Shawcross and Huth ever was. Shawcross and Huth were fantastic, unparalleled in terms of fire and brimstone, solid set up, aerial dominance old school centre backs. BUT they had limitations as a pairing (partly due to the way Pulis set up the team in fairness) related to recycling the ball and pace. Muniesa is not Huth. He isn't as strong and he isn't as tall, but he jumps higher, he reads the game at least as well, he carries the ball immeasurably better and his distribution is in a different league. He has shown over and again that he can mark the big man up front - so what's the worry? He will have Shawcross next to him when he is fit. Its a great partnership - I'm excited to see it. It would be stupid to bring in a centre back for big money that would unsettle that when Shawcross is back. By January, Shawcross should be fit and raring to go. Nothing coming out of the club suggests the operation went badly, his recovery should take about three months. Fine. If the worst happens, we would have to get a proper, fully fledged replacement for Shawcross IN JANUARY. That will be expensive, and hard to do - as it would be now, and we would be stupid (in my opinion) to spend a lot of time and money doing so now, when the ideal man should be back in the team by December anyway. So that means we need to use back up. Like we have done in various positions for shorter or longer periods of time for every season ever. So does every club. The cover we have is good. It looks different, and is a bit strange to deal with, because Shawcross and Huth it isn't. BUT Muniesa and Cameron is a good pairing for a few months. They cover each other well and seem to enjoy playing next to each other. Cameron was one of the bright sparks of a disjointed pre-season and seems to be enjoying/stepping up to the responsibility of covering for Shawcross. Its fine for the time they will be needed. If there is another injury to Cameron or Muniesa, firstly that would be really unlucky, but hopefully it would be for a couple of games here and there - Wollscheid and Wilson will cover fine for that. Texeira seems more and more like a failed experiment. It happens, he was cheap. If we sign a big name centre back with a big ego for big money now, I think it will cause us problems now and more when Shawcross comes back. It will disrupt a fairly solid pairing (Cameron and Muniesa) and risk pissing off a number of established squad members (Cameron, Wollscheid, Wilson). Plus, assuming the new guy was a big strong Shawcross type (which is what people seem to want), what happens when Ryan is fit again? Its obvious MH wants a little and large type pairing back there, for the speed, distribution etc that Muniesa offers. So who is going to miss out - the new guy or Shawcross? The only way we could play both, and fill the hole that Shawcross is leaving, is finding a monster that can play the ball like a Barca player. I don't know of one that exists that would cost less than £15m to buy, and that would be daft. Yes we need to improve on set pieces, but that is a set up issue, not a playing staff issue. Buying a big name centre back now ahead of a big name defensive midfield player would be mad. We let Huth go to a club where he was clearly loving his football, which he wasn't really under Hughes - he was uncomfortable with how he was being asked to play. Yes he could probably have done us a job, but he would know he was going to be dropped as soon as Shawcross was fit again - would he really be up for that? What we need is left back cover. If Pieters picks up an injury, we either need to drag Muniesa out of position or put Wilson at left back again. Neither is a good option. A young left back should be easy enough to find on loan. Save the pennies so we can get Sergi Roberto in during the January window and stop panicking! I agree with all that but would point out that Johnson and Bardsley can play left back too. We don't need any new players perhaps.
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Post by malteser68 on Aug 22, 2015 12:57:32 GMT
re Muniesa... Mark Bowen was on the radio last week and he specifically mentioned his ablity to play in midfield. Don't suppose we'll ever know how seriously that's ever being considered until it actually ever happens. Glad that Bowen has vindicated my earlier post
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Post by a.d.faye.god on Aug 22, 2015 13:07:34 GMT
Sorry for the essay this will be, tl;dr version: we don't need a centre back, it would be expensive and cause problems later on, get a young left back and do some set piece training instead. I honestly wonder if some people are trolling really hard on this thread. Shawcross and Muniesa are our first choice centre back pairing and that is a brilliant partnership in the making. Its better than Shawcross and Huth are now, and (I would argue) better than Shawcross and Huth ever was. Shawcross and Huth were fantastic, unparalleled in terms of fire and brimstone, solid set up, aerial dominance old school centre backs. BUT they had limitations as a pairing (partly due to the way Pulis set up the team in fairness) related to recycling the ball and pace. Muniesa is not Huth. He isn't as strong and he isn't as tall, but he jumps higher, he reads the game at least as well, he carries the ball immeasurably better and his distribution is in a different league. He has shown over and again that he can mark the big man up front - so what's the worry? He will have Shawcross next to him when he is fit. Its a great partnership - I'm excited to see it. It would be stupid to bring in a centre back for big money that would unsettle that when Shawcross is back. By January, Shawcross should be fit and raring to go. Nothing coming out of the club suggests the operation went badly, his recovery should take about three months. Fine. If the worst happens, we would have to get a proper, fully fledged replacement for Shawcross IN JANUARY. That will be expensive, and hard to do - as it would be now, and we would be stupid (in my opinion) to spend a lot of time and money doing so now, when the ideal man should be back in the team by December anyway. So that means we need to use back up. Like we have done in various positions for shorter or longer periods of time for every season ever. So does every club. The cover we have is good. It looks different, and is a bit strange to deal with, because Shawcross and Huth it isn't. BUT Muniesa and Cameron is a good pairing for a few months. They cover each other well and seem to enjoy playing next to each other. Cameron was one of the bright sparks of a disjointed pre-season and seems to be enjoying/stepping up to the responsibility of covering for Shawcross. Its fine for the time they will be needed. If there is another injury to Cameron or Muniesa, firstly that would be really unlucky, but hopefully it would be for a couple of games here and there - Wollscheid and Wilson will cover fine for that. Texeira seems more and more like a failed experiment. It happens, he was cheap. If we sign a big name centre back with a big ego for big money now, I think it will cause us problems now and more when Shawcross comes back. It will disrupt a fairly solid pairing (Cameron and Muniesa) and risk pissing off a number of established squad members (Cameron, Wollscheid, Wilson). Plus, assuming the new guy was a big strong Shawcross type (which is what people seem to want), what happens when Ryan is fit again? Its obvious MH wants a little and large type pairing back there, for the speed, distribution etc that Muniesa offers. So who is going to miss out - the new guy or Shawcross? The only way we could play both, and fill the hole that Shawcross is leaving, is finding a monster that can play the ball like a Barca player. I don't know of one that exists that would cost less than £15m to buy, and that would be daft. Yes we need to improve on set pieces, but that is a set up issue, not a playing staff issue. Buying a big name centre back now ahead of a big name defensive midfield player would be mad. We let Huth go to a club where he was clearly loving his football, which he wasn't really under Hughes - he was uncomfortable with how he was being asked to play. Yes he could probably have done us a job, but he would know he was going to be dropped as soon as Shawcross was fit again - would he really be up for that? What we need is left back cover. If Pieters picks up an injury, we either need to drag Muniesa out of position or put Wilson at left back again. Neither is a good option. A young left back should be easy enough to find on loan. Save the pennies so we can get Sergi Roberto in during the January window and stop panicking! I agree with all that but would point out that Johnson and Bardsley can play left back too. We don't need any new players perhaps. That's a fair point, I just feel it might be an easy acquisition that would avoid us having to play around with the back four. I do agree though, I don't think the defence needs anything urgently
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Post by lordb on Aug 22, 2015 16:35:30 GMT
Hmm
Shocking at the back today,little protection mind.
If we can sneak Lescott, or similar ,in then might be a plan.
Good job I'm not a manager!
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Post by stokecitydom on Aug 22, 2015 16:43:24 GMT
Hmm Shocking at the back today,little protection mind. If we can sneak Lescott, or similar ,in then might be a plan. Good job I'm not a manager! I find it hard to cristice the centre halves today. We we just so open through the middle. There were runners from midfield who were not tracked & we were just over run. Obviously there were times when Muniesa & Cameron could have done better, but the central midfield needed to tighten up. With 10 minutes to go we were struggling to hold on & Adam comes on for MVG who I thought was poor. I think it just shows that we are a defensive minded midfielder short.
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 23, 2015 10:52:48 GMT
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