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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Aug 17, 2015 21:55:07 GMT
To me, the political vacuum that is the Labour Party at the moment, looks like a spent force. Major political movements have died in the past, and perhaps we are witnessing the slow death of a once powerful and visionary political movement. So, if the Labour Party implodes, what should replace it, and what should it's fundamental values be?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2015 22:39:23 GMT
To me, the political vacuum that is the Labour Party at the moment, looks like a spent force. Major political movements have died in the past, and perhaps we are witnessing the slow death of a once powerful and visionary political movement. So, if the Labour Party implodes, what should replace it, and what should it's fundamental values be? It's too diverse , too weak , too politically correct and lacks leadership and direction. When it gets that leadership (Corbyn) your comments will become a reality ....'a slow death' ...or even much quicker . |
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Post by derrida1437 on Aug 17, 2015 23:23:59 GMT
If the Labour Party collapses and splits.....it collapses and splits.
Hypothetically speaking, some members will veer off to the hard left, the rest will probably either mingle with Lib Dems or The Green Party.
Essentially, though, the political left will fragment even more than it already has. I don't think it's possible for another single political entity to formulate so quickly given how the Labour Party itself took time to formulate.
That said....I don't think the Labour Party will collapse and split. This scenario has played out before and, lest we forget, not a single ballot has been cast.
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Aug 18, 2015 6:50:06 GMT
If the Labour Party collapses and splits.....it collapses and splits. Hypothetically speaking, some members will veer off to the hard left, the rest will probably either mingle with Lib Dems or The Green Party. Essentially, though, the political left will fragment even more than it already has. I don't think it's possible for another single political entity to formulate so quickly given how the Labour Party itself took time to formulate. That said....I don't think the Labour Party will collapse and split. This scenario has played out before and, lest we forget, not a single ballot has been cast. Wow, I almost forgot about the Lib Dems! Even as a Conservative voter over the years, (most recently, UKIP), I worry about what the Party will do, without an effective and distinctly alternative opposition. I believe the old left vs right politics is dead, and no matter who the Labour Party gets to lead it, it will continue to become less and less relevant. |
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Post by Nick1984 on Aug 18, 2015 6:50:17 GMT
This...  |
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Post by derrida1437 on Aug 18, 2015 8:31:44 GMT
If the Labour Party collapses and splits.....it collapses and splits. Hypothetically speaking, some members will veer off to the hard left, the rest will probably either mingle with Lib Dems or The Green Party. Essentially, though, the political left will fragment even more than it already has. I don't think it's possible for another single political entity to formulate so quickly given how the Labour Party itself took time to formulate. That said....I don't think the Labour Party will collapse and split. This scenario has played out before and, lest we forget, not a single ballot has been cast. Wow, I almost forgot about the Lib Dems! Even as a Conservative voter over the years, (most recently, UKIP), I worry about what the Party will do, without an effective and distinctly alternative opposition. I believe the old left vs right politics is dead, and no matter who the Labour Party gets to lead it, it will continue to become less and less relevant. Possibly. There is the argument that "Left vs Right" has been replaced by "Power v Protest" and I think, on balance, you're probably right. Personally, I don't think Labour will implode. Some would like it to, but Labour has been at a cross roads before and has come through it, albeit not entirely unscathed. Of course there is the danger that some deliberately overstate the internal debates going on within Labour, mistaking a "passionate discussion" over the future direction of the Labour Party, with the idea of a permanent split because it suits their agenda. I don't think that's true in any sense. If Labour goes left, it will go left. If it stays centre-left, it stays centre-left. Labour is a far broader church than the political right give it credit. The true political split comes with the EU Referendum. The potential for Conservative Party implosion over that is massive. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2015 8:42:56 GMT
The tories don't want to leave the EU.They never have and neither does big businesses.They simply want to renegotiate the terms. What Cameron did wrong was to offer a referendum which was a moment of madness on his part and now he has to see it through. He knows that he made a big mistake but he also knows that the country will vote to stay in, so it's all been pretty pointless apart from grabbing a few extra votes. Labour will continue on with its head down.... Gaining allegiance from the immigrant community so nothing is ever likely to change.
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Post by Gods on Aug 18, 2015 8:52:06 GMT
I think there will always be people who believe in self accountability in a low tax, small government economy who essentially have or would wish to have a bob or two and they'd like to keep it and those who believe we should be a more caring/sharing kind of a society. And quite a few in between. So there will always be the politics of the right and the left and everyone will find a home whatever the parties are actually called.
Having said that I don't believe Labour will split, I'm not even yet convinced old Corbyn will win, Labour have been wheeling out the big guns to try to piss on his picnic and I fancy someone could still pip him on the 2nd votes thing. HoHum we'll see.
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Post by stokeharry on Aug 18, 2015 9:09:57 GMT
What happens if the Labour party collapses ? - The UK has one massive street party and rejoices  Its only a matter of time until they implode and if Corbyn becomes leader that process will just be sped up , so come on Labour members do us all a favour and vote for Corbyn  Thumbs up |
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Post by Godo on Aug 18, 2015 11:39:27 GMT
What "happens"is that the gap between the rich and poor will grow even bigger, the "market" will take over the NHS and education, nobody from an ordinary family will be able to afford to be first home owners ( 40% of the right to own houses the Tories have sold off cheap are already in the hands of their chums in the rental sector) and capitalism and consumerism will continue to drive down wages of those who need to earn a wage and destroy the environment as we continue to exploit whatever resources there are like the parasities that Global companies are.
I bet you little Tory boys out there are hoping you'll be on the right side of the gated community but I don't think Cameron would want oiks like you as neighbours.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 18, 2015 11:52:29 GMT
The tories don't want to leave the EU.They never have and neither does big businesses.They simply want to renegotiate the terms. What Cameron did wrong was to offer a referendum which was a moment of madness on his part and now he has to see it through. He knows that he made a big mistake but he also knows that the country will vote to stay in, so it's all been pretty pointless apart from grabbing a few extra votes. Labour will continue on with its head down.... Gaining allegiance from the immigrant community so nothing is ever likely to change. I dont think Cameron had much choice - the euro sceptics in his party would give him so much grief he wouldn't be able to govern effectively. What's not clear is what happens after the referendum in the event of a vote to stay in. Maybe the Tories will split before Labour? |
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Post by derrida1437 on Aug 18, 2015 12:00:30 GMT
The tories don't want to leave the EU.They never have and neither does big businesses.They simply want to renegotiate the terms. What Cameron did wrong was to offer a referendum which was a moment of madness on his part and now he has to see it through. He knows that he made a big mistake but he also knows that the country will vote to stay in, so it's all been pretty pointless apart from grabbing a few extra votes. Labour will continue on with its head down.... Gaining allegiance from the immigrant community so nothing is ever likely to change. I dont think Cameron had much choice - the euro sceptics in his party would give him so much grief he wouldn't be able to govern effectively. What's not clear is what happens after the referendum in the event of a vote to stay in. Maybe the Tories will split before Labour? More than likely. Naturally, the Conservatives would have a metaphorical mental breakdown. There wouldn't be much of a point to UKIP either. |
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Post by thevoid on Aug 18, 2015 12:13:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2015 21:55:15 GMT
The Labour Part have for years tried to gain power by spreading it's blanket wide and far.
If you include everyone with every viewpoint and every belief then I suggest that you have no views or beliefs of you own.
In short they are bankrupt of ideas and bereft of any moral or social stand point.
Half the Labour Party are now low quality Conservatives with the same ideology and social education.
The other party are Michael Foot looney lefties who are that PC they can't hold a debate without offending each other.
If they are a party of the people then they need to elect members from the areas they are born in who actually know what being a working class person is, or know how hard it is to raise yourself up through business or education.
Put Alan Sugar in the leadership role.
Vote for me I need a job that takes little effort.
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