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Post by yeokel on Aug 2, 2015 22:18:09 GMT
It seems as if thousands of them want to get here by any means.
They seem to think that England is the land of Milk and Honey and that they could have a happier life here than their homeland (they may well be right)
If it is made too easy for the ones who get here then more and more will attempt to make the trip.
But, if too many come here then England (I use England, not Britain) could well turn in to what they are trying to escape from (apart from climate induced famine).
Why come here rather than stay in France, or Italy or Spain or wherever it is they land?
Or what do they think is so much better here than, say, Germany or Holland or Belgium?
We can't take the perceived Daily Mail option of 'shoot on sight'.
Similarly, we can't take the Guardian/BBC option of 'everyone is welcome, multi culturalism is the best, most peaceful option for UK'.
So what, long term, is the answer and what can be done to reduce the appeal of coming to England, turning it into another failed corrupt African state/war zone and losing the 'Englishness' which was possibly the appeal to them in the first place?
And before anyone screams "racist", I've no problem with Africans (Black and White) and quite understand that they want to seek a 'better life' for themselves and their families but, at the same time, I would like Northern Europe to maintain its own character and keep to its own traditions of being a fairly non extremist, safe and stable place to live for my children, and their children, and so on and on.
Is the answer to try to pay Africans to stay where they are (would they be interested?), increase foreign aid and trade, and try to somehow deal with corruption/theft over there or is there another way?
What is to be done?
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Post by matelot1996 on Aug 2, 2015 23:52:15 GMT
Don't worry pal you won't be called a racist for having a valid opinion, I'm sure.
It's not a difficult problem to solve in principle but unfortunately, for many reasons, our woefully inept "leadership" has not got the tools or the bottle to deal with it. Cameron's attempt to solve the problem is more fences and sniffer dogs for fucks sake. This man and his cronies are completely unaffected by any of the negative impact that immigration has on the UK. They give not a single, solitary fuck!! This is why UKIP can only gain in strength and support as the situation worsens.
I don't see many non indigenous species attempting to flee in the opposite direction.
Why is this? That is the question?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 7:30:19 GMT
Let's start another war with france. Theyll soon run South.
I think it'd be well Worth it
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Post by lawrieleslie on Aug 3, 2015 7:40:04 GMT
If the DM is to be believed almost 1000 a month are getting across the channel. We are putting them up in hotels, giving them three meals a day and £35 a week. This is because asylum holding centres are overwhelmed. Immigrants are even taxied up to London and further afield to accommodate them. For these Africans etc this is the Britain paved with gold. My big worry is how many of these 1000 a month are ISIS or some other terrorists that are slowly infiltrating our country. This is going to end in tears I just know it. Closing the channel tunnel for a time may sound drastic but this would buy time to strengthen our own boarder to prevent them entering.i If they knew they couldn't get in they wouldn't try. Bulgaria has built a 50 mile 15ft razor wire fence 5 feet wide patrolled by armed army personnel to successfully keep out Turkish illegal immigrants. We should be taking similar action IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 8:45:12 GMT
If the DM is to be believed almost 1000 a month are getting across the channel. We are putting them up in hotels, giving them three meals a day and £35 a week. This is because asylum holding centres are overwhelmed. Immigrants are even taxied up to London and further afield to accommodate them. For these Africans etc this is the Britain paved with gold. My big worry is how many of these 1000 a month are ISIS or some other terrorists that are slowly infiltrating our country. This is going to end in tears I just know it. Closing the channel tunnel for a time may sound drastic but this would buy time to strengthen our own boarder to prevent them entering.i If they knew they couldn't get in they wouldn't try. Bulgaria has built a 50 mile 15ft razor wire fence 5 feet wide patrolled by armed army personnel to successfully keep out Turkish illegal immigrants. We should be taking similar action IMO. I've been saying the saying the same for years ....if we were determined enough they could be stopped , but we aren't . He's terrified of falling out of favour with the PC brigade and human rights groups . If you watch any of the reality 'Cops & Robbers ' programs or Police Interceptors then you get a real flavour of what this country is trying to absorb . Shocking . |
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Post by Nick1984 on Aug 3, 2015 10:13:31 GMT
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Post by lordb on Aug 3, 2015 12:47:08 GMT
Only one answer
Redistribution of wealth
not going to happen is it?
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Post by bathstoke on Aug 3, 2015 13:09:29 GMT
Let's start another war with france. Theyll soon run South. I think it'd be well Worth it Can we start it at the end of the month, I'm going Britanny on Sat. That's unless you want us to be part of a flanking task force!?! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 13:12:13 GMT
Only one answer Redistribution of wealth not going to happen is it? No. And the reason is quite simple. That will only add to the problem, simple fact is Africa under the many corrupt regimes simply is unsustainable and not capable of survival without massive aid programmes. The once prosperous Zimbabwe has been reduced to little more than a dust bowl, rather than the productive fertile country it once was. Now...Lets look at Ethiopia...Some 30 odd years ago Bob Geldof launched live aid, and 100's of Millions, maybe Billions have been poured into this country, but alas, 30 years down the road they are once again on the brink, along with many of their neighbours. Many of their problems are of their own making, civil wars, over population, corrupt governments, now had we not propped them up, then who knows what state they'd be in now, certainly a lot less mouths to feed, estimates are that the current Ethiopian population is some 25 to 30 million more than it would have been had it not been for live aid, 25 to 30 million under nourished, under educated people that are themselves breeding at an alarming rate due to infant mortality. I am not for one moment suggesting that we turn our backs on them and let them get on with it, what we must do is educate them into a more realistic process of childbirth, and then hopefully the numbers will naturally come down and it may, just may, survive, but at the moment it certainly will not. There are of course some exceptions to this, South Africa is prosperous, Egypt, Morocco, Tunisia seem to do ok, but its Sub Saharan Africa where the problem lies. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 13:43:12 GMT
Only one answer Redistribution of wealth not going to happen is it? No. And the reason is quite simple. That will only add to the problem, simple fact is Africa under the many corrupt regimes simply is unsustainable and not capable of survival without massive aid programmes. The once prosperous Zimbabwe has been reduced to little more than a dust bowl, rather than the productive fertile country it once was. Now...Lets look at Ethiopia...Some 30 odd years ago Bob Geldof launched live aid, and 100's of Millions, maybe Billions have been poured into this country, but alas, 30 years down the road they are once again on the brink, along with many of their neighbours. Many of their problems are of their own making, civil wars, over population, corrupt governments, now had we not propped them up, then who knows what state they'd be in now, certainly a lot less mouths to feed, estimates are that the current Ethiopian population is some 25 to 30 million more than it would have been had it not been for live aid, 25 to 30 million under nourished, under educated people that are themselves breeding at an alarming rate due to infant mortality. I am not for one moment suggesting that we turn our backs on them and let them get on with it, what we must do is educate them into a more realistic process of childbirth, and then hopefully the numbers will naturally come down and it may, just may, survive, but at the moment it certainly will not. There are of course some exceptions to this, South Africa is prosperous, Egypt, Morocco, Tunisia seem to do ok, but its Sub Saharan Africa where the problem lies. GDP in Ethopia grew by 10% and it's on course for 11% growth in 2015 making it the fasting growing economy in sub-Saharan Africa and one of the fastest growing in the world currently. This is due to large scale government projects from the last 10 years that appear to be bearing fruit. Don't get me wrong this will mean nothing for your average Ethiopian living in poverty but baby steps that lead to self sufficiency have to be preferable to the constant cycle of aid/corruption/war/famine of the past....... |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 14:01:52 GMT
Let's start another war with france. Theyll soon run South. I think it'd be well Worth it Can we start it at the end of the month, I'm going Britanny on Sat. That's unless you want us to be part of a flanking task force!?! You may be best parachuting in behind the lines and create a diversion |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 14:06:25 GMT
No. And the reason is quite simple. That will only add to the problem, simple fact is Africa under the many corrupt regimes simply is unsustainable and not capable of survival without massive aid programmes. The once prosperous Zimbabwe has been reduced to little more than a dust bowl, rather than the productive fertile country it once was. Now...Lets look at Ethiopia...Some 30 odd years ago Bob Geldof launched live aid, and 100's of Millions, maybe Billions have been poured into this country, but alas, 30 years down the road they are once again on the brink, along with many of their neighbours. Many of their problems are of their own making, civil wars, over population, corrupt governments, now had we not propped them up, then who knows what state they'd be in now, certainly a lot less mouths to feed, estimates are that the current Ethiopian population is some 25 to 30 million more than it would have been had it not been for live aid, 25 to 30 million under nourished, under educated people that are themselves breeding at an alarming rate due to infant mortality. I am not for one moment suggesting that we turn our backs on them and let them get on with it, what we must do is educate them into a more realistic process of childbirth, and then hopefully the numbers will naturally come down and it may, just may, survive, but at the moment it certainly will not. There are of course some exceptions to this, South Africa is prosperous, Egypt, Morocco, Tunisia seem to do ok, but its Sub Saharan Africa where the problem lies. GDP in Ethopia grew by 10% and it's on course for 11% growth in 2015 making it the fasting growing economy in sub-Saharan Africa and one of the fastest growing in the world currently. This is due to large scale government projects from the last 10 years that appear to be bearing fruit. Don't get me wrong this will mean nothing for your average Ethiopian living in poverty but baby steps that lead to self sufficiency have to be preferable to the constant cycle of aid/corruption/war/famine of the past....... But sadly so has the population, and they are just a drought away from another catastrophe. As far as GDP Growth is concerned it is always somewhat of a misleading statistic, In simple terms if I had 10p to my name and I found a penny my GDP has grown by 10%...I'm still on the bones of my arse though. |
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Post by drjeffsdiscobarge on Aug 3, 2015 14:11:42 GMT
If the DM is to be believed almost 1000 a month are getting across the channel. We are putting them up in hotels, giving them three meals a day and £35 a week. This is because asylum holding centres are overwhelmed. Immigrants are even taxied up to London and further afield to accommodate them. For these Africans etc this is the Britain paved with gold. My big worry is how many of these 1000 a month are ISIS or some other terrorists that are slowly infiltrating our country. This is going to end in tears I just know it. Closing the channel tunnel for a time may sound drastic but this would buy time to strengthen our own boarder to prevent them entering.i If they knew they couldn't get in they wouldn't try. Bulgaria has built a 50 mile 15ft razor wire fence 5 feet wide patrolled by armed army personnel to successfully keep out Turkish illegal immigrants. We should be taking similar action IMO. I think there's a major problem in the first line of your post mate... |
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Post by bathstoke on Aug 3, 2015 14:15:03 GMT
Can we start it at the end of the month, I'm going Britanny on Sat. That's unless you want us to be part of a flanking task force!?! You may be best parachuting in behind the lines and create a diversion I'll put me pants on my head & stick of celery up me @rse, that should divert their attention |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 14:32:28 GMT
GDP in Ethopia grew by 10% and it's on course for 11% growth in 2015 making it the fasting growing economy in sub-Saharan Africa and one of the fastest growing in the world currently. This is due to large scale government projects from the last 10 years that appear to be bearing fruit. Don't get me wrong this will mean nothing for your average Ethiopian living in poverty but baby steps that lead to self sufficiency have to be preferable to the constant cycle of aid/corruption/war/famine of the past....... But sadly so has the population, and they are just a drought away from another catastrophe. As far as GDP Growth is concerned it is always somewhat of a misleading statistic, In simple terms if I had 10p to my name and I found a penny my GDP has grown by 10%...I'm still on the bones of my arse though. It's gone from $47 billion US to $51 billion US though and increased per capita from $470 to $575 so the population argument is incorrect. 38.7% of Ethiopians lived in extreme poverty in 2005 and it's targeted to be 22.2% by the end of 2015. As I say baby steps but positive nevertheless...... |
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Post by lawrieleslie on Aug 3, 2015 16:01:54 GMT
If the DM is to be believed almost 1000 a month are getting across the channel. We are putting them up in hotels, giving them three meals a day and £35 a week. This is because asylum holding centres are overwhelmed. Immigrants are even taxied up to London and further afield to accommodate them. For these Africans etc this is the Britain paved with gold. My big worry is how many of these 1000 a month are ISIS or some other terrorists that are slowly infiltrating our country. This is going to end in tears I just know it. Closing the channel tunnel for a time may sound drastic but this would buy time to strengthen our own boarder to prevent them entering.i If they knew they couldn't get in they wouldn't try. Bulgaria has built a 50 mile 15ft razor wire fence 5 feet wide patrolled by armed army personnel to successfully keep out Turkish illegal immigrants. We should be taking similar action IMO. I think there's a major problem in the first line of your post mate... Is that you Dave? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 16:13:14 GMT
You may be best parachuting in behind the lines and create a diversion I'll put me pants on my head & stick of celery up me @rse, that should divert their attention So casual then:P |
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Post by harryburrows on Aug 3, 2015 17:22:21 GMT
I'll put me pants on my head & stick of celery up me @rse, that should divert their attention So casual then:P still lots of Druids down in Avon |
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Post by britsabroad on Aug 4, 2015 1:08:19 GMT
Only one answer Redistribution of wealth not going to happen is it? No. And the reason is quite simple. That will only add to the problem, simple fact is Africa under the many corrupt regimes simply is unsustainable and not capable of survival without massive aid programmes. The once prosperous Zimbabwe has been reduced to little more than a dust bowl, rather than the productive fertile country it once was. Now...Lets look at Ethiopia...Some 30 odd years ago Bob Geldof launched live aid, and 100's of Millions, maybe Billions have been poured into this country, but alas, 30 years down the road they are once again on the brink, along with many of their neighbours. Many of their problems are of their own making, civil wars, over population, corrupt governments, now had we not propped them up, then who knows what state they'd be in now, certainly a lot less mouths to feed, estimates are that the current Ethiopian population is some 25 to 30 million more than it would have been had it not been for live aid, 25 to 30 million under nourished, under educated people that are themselves breeding at an alarming rate due to infant mortality. I am not for one moment suggesting that we turn our backs on them and let them get on with it, what we must do is educate them into a more realistic process of childbirth, and then hopefully the numbers will naturally come down and it may, just may, survive, but at the moment it certainly will not. There are of course some exceptions to this, South Africa is prosperous, Egypt, Morocco, Tunisia seem to do ok, but its Sub Saharan Africa where the problem lies. South Africa is circling the drain at the moment, mostly due to the inept government ruling there. |
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Post by starkiller on Aug 4, 2015 5:09:31 GMT
Germany is, far and away, the number one destination for immigrants.
As for illegal immigration, it is also number one - 57,000 is just the numbers of those caught last year. 175,000 asylum claims.
Just in case folk thought everyone heads to Britain. Nowhere near those numbers.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2015 5:45:00 GMT
Germany is, far and away, the number one destination for immigrants. As for illegal immigration, it is also number one - 57,000 is just the numbers of those caught last year. 175,000 asylum claims. Just in case folk thought everyone heads to Britain. Nowhere near those numbers. Serves em' right ....see if we care . |
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 4, 2015 6:02:49 GMT
Germany is, far and away, the number one destination for immigrants. As for illegal immigration, it is also number one - 57,000 is just the numbers of those caught last year. 175,000 asylum claims. Just in case folk thought everyone heads to Britain. Nowhere near those numbers. Indeed - a little perspective is helpful. Where they go to;  Where they come from;  The biggest issue in Africa in terms of refugees is internally displaced people and refugees in neighbouring countries. In the case of Somalia that amounts to some 2 million people. That's dwarves the number making their way into Europe never mind the UK. So if the OP is concerned about Africa we have to accept that our border problems are a minor issue in the bigger scheme of things. The solution - well that's tough. But fair trade is a better way to go than more aid IMO. |
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Post by lawrieleslie on Aug 4, 2015 6:03:17 GMT
Only one answer Redistribution of wealth not going to happen is it? No. And the reason is quite simple. That will only add to the problem, simple fact is Africa under the many corrupt regimes simply is unsustainable and not capable of survival without massive aid programmes. The once prosperous Zimbabwe has been reduced to little more than a dust bowl, rather than the productive fertile country it once was. Now...Lets look at Ethiopia...Some 30 odd years ago Bob Geldof launched live aid, and 100's of Millions, maybe Billions have been poured into this country, but alas, 30 years down the road they are once again on the brink, along with many of their neighbours. Many of their problems are of their own making, civil wars, over population, corrupt governments, now had we not propped them up, then who knows what state they'd be in now, certainly a lot less mouths to feed, estimates are that the current Ethiopian population is some 25 to 30 million more than it would have been had it not been for live aid, 25 to 30 million under nourished, under educated people that are themselves breeding at an alarming rate due to infant mortality. I am not for one moment suggesting that we turn our backs on them and let them get on with it, what we must do is educate them into a more realistic process of childbirth, and then hopefully the numbers will naturally come down and it may, just may, survive, but at the moment it certainly will not. There are of course some exceptions to this, South Africa is prosperous, Egypt, Morocco, Tunisia seem to do ok, but its Sub Saharan Africa where the problem lies. Yes spot on Shangsy. I have a Gambian teaching colleague at college I work at and she is adamant that large scale financial aid just does not work for the very reasons you state. She says that in Gambia tourism and fair trade programmes puts more money into the right places in one year than all the charity programmes have done over the last twenty. She says their leader bangs the table at every African Congress summit that African nations should invest charity money into sustainable growth but it falls on many deaf ears. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2015 10:22:13 GMT
I'll keep this short.
How can anyone of any race, creed or colour come to my country and be put up in a hotel room and given £35 a day in a time when our own people like me have been put on trial (no exaggeration) accused of being scroungers and are now being paid FUCK ALL (that's how strongly I feel) and I mean not a single penny.
Put me on the tunnel with a dog , NONE WILL PASS. not ONE.
We are letting them in, is the truth.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2015 13:52:35 GMT
I'll keep this short. How can anyone of any race, creed or colour come to my country and be put up in a hotel room and given £35 a day in a time when our own people like me have been put on trial (no exaggeration) accused of being scroungers and are now being paid FUCK ALL (that's how strongly I feel) and I mean not a single penny. Put me on the tunnel with a dog , NONE WILL PASS. not ONE. We are letting them in, is the truth. Isn't it £35 a week? |
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Post by kbillyh on Aug 4, 2015 14:43:14 GMT
Yep, i read a BBC article posted on here last week saying that it was 5 quid something a day.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2015 18:49:40 GMT
That's still £5 more than I get and I worked 30 years piece work up to 70 hours a week.
what have they put in?
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