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Post by theresonly1hudson on Aug 7, 2015 10:40:19 GMT
i hope we have m8 may take time to gel all newcomers but think he will hit the ground running
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Afellay
Aug 7, 2015 11:16:38 GMT
via mobile
Post by happychappy on Aug 7, 2015 11:16:38 GMT
Am I the only one who thinks that maybe he is the n'zonzi replacement not RVG?
All this about central play etc. Makes you think. If ever needs be he could switch to the wings and RVG can take the cetral spot. Keeping whelan firmly where he belongs. Just a thought.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 7, 2015 11:19:58 GMT
If he is, the physical aspect of what Fonzy did will be missed especially if it's with Bojan as a #10.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 11:33:36 GMT
With Shawcross out and Nzonzi gone, we need the physicality that Adam brings, Ireland is a wet fart
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 11:38:25 GMT
If he is, the physical aspect of what Fonzy did will be missed especially if it's with Bojan as a #10. i wouldn't say that at all. Afellay is certainly no shirker or fancy dan who avoid challenges. he seems quite happy to get stuck in and win the ball back from what i've seen and also seems more than happy to take players on shoulder to shoulder and try to create for the more advanced players. if anything he seems far more creative and willing to get up and support the attacks than N'Zonzi ever was and is most definitely quicker in getting into those supporting positions i loved N'Zonzi but i wish people wouldn't continue with this idea of him being some kind of footballing god....there used to be thread after thread on here with people saying his faults were that he was too slow, didn't get up enough to support the play and wasn't quick enough to release attacks and all of that was true. if he was as influential and quality as some on here seem to remember him as he'd have gone for 25mill 2 years ago because of a bidding war between Barca and Real and not 8 mill to Sevilla because they were the ONLY club that made a realistic bid for him. the rose tinted glasses seem to have completely re-written history for some on here
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 7, 2015 11:41:28 GMT
If he is, the physical aspect of what Fonzy did will be missed especially if it's with Bojan as a #10. i wouldn't say that at all. Afellay is certaily no shirker or fancy dan who avoid challenges. he seems quite happy to get stuck in and win the ball back from what i've seen and also seems more than happy to take players on shoulder to shoulder and try to create for the more advanced players. if anything he seems far more creative and willing to get up and support the attacks than N'Zonzi ever was and is most definitely quicker in getting into those supporting positions Not saying he is but he's also not a 6ft 5" monster who is going to win the headers Fonzy did or put his foot like he did either. Well at least nothing I've seen suggests he will and that too imo has to be factored in when talking about replacing him. We don't really need someone massively creative in there (always been a load of old bollocks/myth for me). That's what the #10 is for. They need to keep the play ticking over and drive us forward from deep.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 11:48:04 GMT
i wouldn't say that at all. Afellay is certaily no shirker or fancy dan who avoid challenges. he seems quite happy to get stuck in and win the ball back from what i've seen and also seems more than happy to take players on shoulder to shoulder and try to create for the more advanced players. if anything he seems far more creative and willing to get up and support the attacks than N'Zonzi ever was and is most definitely quicker in getting into those supporting positions Not saying he is but he's also not a 6ft 5" monster who is going to win the headers Fonzy did or put his foot like he did either. Well at least nothing I've seen suggests he will and that too imo has to be factored in when talking about replacing him. We don't really need someone massively creative in there (always been a load of old bollocks/myth for me). That's what the #10 is for. They need to keep the play ticking over and drive us forward from deep. I'm with Bayern on this one I think we will miss Fonzy's physical presence in the middle of the park. He was calm and assured in possession and players bounced off him I cant see who if anyone is the direct replacement.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 11:48:59 GMT
i wouldn't say that at all. Afellay is certaily no shirker or fancy dan who avoid challenges. he seems quite happy to get stuck in and win the ball back from what i've seen and also seems more than happy to take players on shoulder to shoulder and try to create for the more advanced players. if anything he seems far more creative and willing to get up and support the attacks than N'Zonzi ever was and is most definitely quicker in getting into those supporting positions Not saying he is but he's also not a 6ft 5" monster who is going to win the headers Fonzy did or put his foot like he did either. Well at least nothing I've seen suggests he will and that too imo has to be factored in when talking about replacing him. We don't really need someone massively creative in there (always been a load of old bollocks/myth for me). That's what the #10 is for. They need to keep the play ticking over and drive us forward from deep. of course we need someone creative in there bayern.. you can't lump the whole responsibility of that onto Bojan and expect him to do it all himself.how many CMs in N'Zonzi's role can you think of that have been successful without any creative ability? all too often we'd get into positions up front where we'd have one player dragged out wide and just 1 player in the middle on his own waiting for what would have to be a pin point cross because N'Zonzi (or other players, not just him) hadn't got up with play, he'd laid it off then just stood there thinking "That's my job done"....even he himself said how he felt more comfortable getting forwards since Hughes came and Hughes had specifically asked him to get into shooting positions more. that lasted about 2 weeks then he drifted into the "Lay it off then stay where you are N'Zonzi" we'd had since he came. i'm not slagging him off at all, he was a cracking player for us and fantastically influential but this idea that in order to replae him it HAS to be by someone who's a carbon copy of him in style and stature just isn't the case at all. Afellay may not have the height N'Zonzi does but i've seen little to suggest he lacks the tenacity, work rate and passion N'zonzi had plus he also brings things to the table that N'Zonzi didn't. can't we just wait and see whether N'Zonzi's replacement actually works before automatically deciding he can't do it and we're therefore definitely weaker than we were? never known fans like that when it comes to writing players off before they've even kicked a bloody ball!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 11:51:21 GMT
Not saying he is but he's also not a 6ft 5" monster who is going to win the headers Fonzy did or put his foot like he did either. Well at least nothing I've seen suggests he will and that too imo has to be factored in when talking about replacing him. We don't really need someone massively creative in there (always been a load of old bollocks/myth for me). That's what the #10 is for. They need to keep the play ticking over and drive us forward from deep. I'm with Bayern on this one I think we will miss Fonzy's physical presence in the middle of the park. He was calm and assured in possession and players bounced off him I cant see who if anyone is the direct replacement. even in just 1 pre-season friendly against Cologne we saw that from Afellay though when he came into the middle. he was just about the only assured player we had in midfield, was happy to take players on and shrugged off challenges aplenty. for Stoke he's had basically 1 game where he played some in the middle and basically did exactly what you've just said no-one in our squad can do...really don't get it at all mate
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 11:54:27 GMT
On Five-Live last night, Robbie Savage singled out the Afellay signing as being the best of the Premier League window. He also tipped Stoke to win a cup this season. You have to filter-in Savage's natural bias towards Hughes (and all things Welsh), but still good to hear.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 12:00:57 GMT
I'm with Bayern on this one I think we will miss Fonzy's physical presence in the middle of the park. He was calm and assured in possession and players bounced off him I cant see who if anyone is the direct replacement. even in just 1 pre-season friendly against Cologne we saw that from Afellay though when he came into the middle. he was just about the only assured player we had in midfield, was happy to take players on and shrugged off challenges aplenty. for Stoke he's had basically 1 game where he played some in the middle and basically did exactly what you've just said no-one in our squad can do...really don't get it at all mate I hope your right Mick but Afallay looks like an attacking player to me not a Fonzy type but it's early days and lets hope he does well.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 7, 2015 12:05:58 GMT
Not saying he is but he's also not a 6ft 5" monster who is going to win the headers Fonzy did or put his foot like he did either. Well at least nothing I've seen suggests he will and that too imo has to be factored in when talking about replacing him. We don't really need someone massively creative in there (always been a load of old bollocks/myth for me). That's what the #10 is for. They need to keep the play ticking over and drive us forward from deep. of course we need someone creative in there bayern.. you can't lump the whole responsibility of that onto Bojan and expect him to do it all himself.how many CMs in N'Zonzi's role can you think of that have been successful without any creative ability? all too often we'd get into positions up front where we'd have one player dragged out wide and just 1 player in the middle on his own waiting for what would have to be a pin point cross because N'Zonzi (or other players, not just him) hadn't got up with play, he'd laid it off then just stood there thinking "That's my job done"....even he himself said how he felt more comfortable getting forwards since Hughes came and Hughes had specifically asked him to get into shooting positions more. that lasted about 2 weeks then he drifted into the "Lay it off then stay where you are N'Zonzi" we'd had since he came. i'm not slagging him off at all, he was a cracking player for us and fantastically influential but this idea that in order to replae him it HAS to be by someone who's a carbon copy of him in style and stature just isn't the case at all. Afellay may not have the height N'Zonzi does but i've seen little to suggest he lacks the tenacity, work rate and passion N'zonzi had plus he also brings things to the table that N'Zonzi didn't. can't we just wait and see whether N'Zonzi's replacement actually works before automatically deciding he can't do it and we're therefore definitely weaker than we were? never known fans like that when it comes to writing players off before they've even kicked a bloody ball! No we don't. Not overly anyway, I'd put it way down what I want from the player in there tbh. It's not just Bojan, I lump the wingers and I think we need more from the full backs too with how we play and what we've got up front ie Diouf who is a beast in the air. Our full backs can't cross for shit. The role for me is about dictating play and setting the tempo, not necessarily creativity. I know you're not, I just don't think it's that big of a thing and would prefer a solider option in there who will get forward when it's appropriate, I think MVG over time could do that. The physical aspect could still be an issue though. I don't think he's been written off, people are genuinely worried about what we're missing in there. He's been the biggest part of our transition for me. In fact the reason it went so well. With it gone, how will we get on? We shall see.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 12:06:21 GMT
even in just 1 pre-season friendly against Cologne we saw that from Afellay though when he came into the middle. he was just about the only assured player we had in midfield, was happy to take players on and shrugged off challenges aplenty. for Stoke he's had basically 1 game where he played some in the middle and basically did exactly what you've just said no-one in our squad can do...really don't get it at all mate I hope your right Mick but Afallay looks like an attacking player to me not a Fonzy type but it's early days and lets hope he does well. agreed mate like i said i may well be wrong and we may badly badly miss Fonzi, i just think that Les and his team behind him have more than earned the right to be trusted to know what they're doing and i'm sure that Van Ginkel and Afellay wouldn't both have been brought in unless he knew he could utilise them effectively and for the benefit of the team. i wouldn't be surprised if he somehow levered them both in so they could do N'Zonzi's job in combo (as Van ginkel seemed to be more than happy to back track when needed and just sit when not). just think we should at least wait until we've seen them in proper action before determining the outcome and writing them off as not good enough for the role
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 12:08:34 GMT
of course we need someone creative in there bayern.. you can't lump the whole responsibility of that onto Bojan and expect him to do it all himself.how many CMs in N'Zonzi's role can you think of that have been successful without any creative ability? all too often we'd get into positions up front where we'd have one player dragged out wide and just 1 player in the middle on his own waiting for what would have to be a pin point cross because N'Zonzi (or other players, not just him) hadn't got up with play, he'd laid it off then just stood there thinking "That's my job done"....even he himself said how he felt more comfortable getting forwards since Hughes came and Hughes had specifically asked him to get into shooting positions more. that lasted about 2 weeks then he drifted into the "Lay it off then stay where you are N'Zonzi" we'd had since he came. i'm not slagging him off at all, he was a cracking player for us and fantastically influential but this idea that in order to replae him it HAS to be by someone who's a carbon copy of him in style and stature just isn't the case at all. Afellay may not have the height N'Zonzi does but i've seen little to suggest he lacks the tenacity, work rate and passion N'zonzi had plus he also brings things to the table that N'Zonzi didn't. can't we just wait and see whether N'Zonzi's replacement actually works before automatically deciding he can't do it and we're therefore definitely weaker than we were? never known fans like that when it comes to writing players off before they've even kicked a bloody ball! No we don't. Not overly anyway, I'd put it way down what I want from the player in there tbh. It's not just Bojan, I lump the wingers and I think we need more from the full backs too with how we play and what we've got up front ie Diouf who is a beast in the air. Our full backs can't cross for shit. The role for me is about dictating play and setting the tempo, not necessarily creativity. I know you're not, I just don't think it's that big of a thing and would prefer a solider option in there who will get forward when it's appropriate, I think MVG over time could do that. The physical aspect could still be an issue though. I don't think he's been written off, people are genuinely worried about what we're missing in there. He's been the biggest part of our transition for me. In fact the reason it went so well. With it gone, how will we get on? We shall see. see what you're saying bayern (and if you look at my post just below yours that i quoted here, i actually pretty much the same about MVG as well in terms of sitting when needed and getting forward when appropriate - were obviously both typing the same thought at the same time).
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 12:22:27 GMT
I hope your right Mick but Afallay looks like an attacking player to me not a Fonzy type but it's early days and lets hope he does well. agreed mate like i said i may well be wrong and we may badly badly miss Fonzi, i just think that Les and his team behind him have more than earned the right to be trusted to know what they're doing and i'm sure that Van Ginkel and Afellay wouldn't both have been brought in unless he knew he could utilise them effectively and for the benefit of the team. i wouldn't be surprised if he somehow levered them both in so they could do N'Zonzi's job in combo (as Van ginkel seemed to be more than happy to back track when needed and just sit when not). just think we should at least wait until we've seen them in proper action before determining the outcome and writing them off as not good enough for the role Chelsea see MVG as a "Lampard" type player , one who scores goals but your right he was another who played OK in Singapore. I have a feeling LMH will use him as the "Fonzy" Linchpin of CM.
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Post by jezzascfc on Aug 7, 2015 13:01:36 GMT
I can see us using Rip VG and Afellay in the middle with Whelan until Bojan is fully fit to start (with the boy wonder possibly coming on for Afellay after 60 mins or so). It will be more the case of Whelan playing behind the two of them, than one partnering Whelan and the other playing the Bojan role as a number 10 - so the 4-1-4-1 that Mr Spencer talks about so much.
That may be switched away from home, where Sidwell could come for one of them to partner Whelan and provide more defensive protection in the more usual 4-2-3-1.
Right now Affelay's assertion he prefers the middle makes it very crowded, and hard to see how Ireland and Adam will get much game time, especially once Bojan is fit and firing again.
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Post by nott1 on Aug 7, 2015 14:11:20 GMT
Afellay is the perfect replacement for Zonz.....he's a better player!
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Post by stokemark on Aug 7, 2015 14:27:25 GMT
Afellay is the perfect replacement for Zonz.....he's a better player! As rediculous the Benjys of this world that is an equally daft statement
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Post by Mezza on Aug 7, 2015 14:32:13 GMT
Afellay is the perfect replacement for Zonz.....he's a better player! As rediculous the Benjys of this world that is an equally daft statement Afellay is a totally different style of player. I wasn't bothered about Begovic going as i believed we had a good replacement in Butland but not having replaced N'Zonzi with a suitable replacement is worrying. For me Van Ginkel isn't the man to do it either even though i rate him highly.
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Aug 7, 2015 14:37:37 GMT
If he is, the physical aspect of what Fonzy did will be missed especially if it's with Bojan as a #10. i wouldn't say that at all. Afellay is certainly no shirker or fancy dan who avoid challenges. he seems quite happy to get stuck in and win the ball back from what i've seen and also seems more than happy to take players on shoulder to shoulder and try to create for the more advanced players. if anything he seems far more creative and willing to get up and support the attacks than N'Zonzi ever was and is most definitely quicker in getting into those supporting positions i loved N'Zonzi but i wish people wouldn't continue with this idea of him being some kind of footballing god....there used to be thread after thread on here with people saying his faults were that he was too slow, didn't get up enough to support the play and wasn't quick enough to release attacks and all of that was true. if he was as influential and quality as some on here seem to remember him as he'd have gone for 25mill 2 years ago because of a bidding war between Barca and Real and not 8 mill to Sevilla because they were the ONLY club that made a realistic bid for him. the rose tinted glasses seem to have completely re-written history for some on here This. The amount of times i was exasperated with Nzonzi slowing play down week on week, so infuriating at times..the talent is obviously there with Nzonzi but some have made him out to be some sort of Yaya Toure...the amount of games he grabbed by the scruff of the neck you could count on the fingers of two hands (a normal four fingered hand not these Cheddleton type hands)!!!
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Post by algor on Aug 7, 2015 14:40:10 GMT
i wouldn't say that at all. Afellay is certainly no shirker or fancy dan who avoid challenges. he seems quite happy to get stuck in and win the ball back from what i've seen and also seems more than happy to take players on shoulder to shoulder and try to create for the more advanced players. if anything he seems far more creative and willing to get up and support the attacks than N'Zonzi ever was and is most definitely quicker in getting into those supporting positions i loved N'Zonzi but i wish people wouldn't continue with this idea of him being some kind of footballing god....there used to be thread after thread on here with people saying his faults were that he was too slow, didn't get up enough to support the play and wasn't quick enough to release attacks and all of that was true. if he was as influential and quality as some on here seem to remember him as he'd have gone for 25mill 2 years ago because of a bidding war between Barca and Real and not 8 mill to Sevilla because they were the ONLY club that made a realistic bid for him. the rose tinted glasses seem to have completely re-written history for some on here This. The amount of times i was exasperated with Nzonzi slowing play down week on week, so infuriating at times..the talent is obviously there with Nzonzi but some have made him out to be some sort of Yaya Toure...the amount of games he grabbed by the scruff of the neck you could count on the fingers of two hands (a normal four fingered hand not these Cheddleton type hands)!!! You have Cheddleton type hands?
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Post by thehoof on Aug 7, 2015 14:43:27 GMT
It was only in the last half of the season that N'Zonzi on a consistent basis showed what a good player he can be. There have been plenty of games in his 3 years (quite often away from home) where he has been a bit part player and not influenced a game at all - having said that I would have preferred him to stay; it may be a different approach from Stoke, perhaps getting the ball into midfielders further up the pitch, instead of utilizing Whelan or N'Zonzi 5 yards outside of our box. N'zonzi's physicality is more of a loss against a Matic or Toure (perhaps even a Schweinsteiger), but it should not be an issue with Henderson and Millner.
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Post by harryburrows on Aug 7, 2015 14:47:49 GMT
It was only in the last half of the season that N'Zonzi on a consistent basis showed what a good player he can be. There have been plenty of games in his 3 years (quite often away from home) where he has been a bit part player and not influenced a game at all - having said that I would have preferred him to stay; it may be a different approach from Stoke, perhaps getting the ball into midfielders further up the pitch, instead of utilizing Whelan or N'Zonzi 5 yards outside of our box. N'zonzi's physicality is more of a loss against a Matic or Toure (perhaps even a Schweinsteiger), but it should not be an issue with Henderson and Millner. Milner is a very very good player , I think he may prove to be there best signing
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Afellay
Aug 7, 2015 14:49:58 GMT
via mobile
nott1 likes this
Post by chiswickpotter on Aug 7, 2015 14:49:58 GMT
Afellay is the perfect replacement for Zonz.....he's a better player! As rediculous the Benjys of this world that is an equally daft statement He has certainly had a career which suggests he is a significantly better player. N'Zonzi is never going to be signed by Barcelona and is unlikely to match Afellay's caps. If he is over his injuries then he looks to have the touch, passing ability and dribbling skills to add to our midfield and his shooting is apparently another strength. N'Zonzi was great at ball retention and last season started to drive forward but his long passing and shooting were very average and he was never great defensively. A fit Afellay could be as big a boost as Bojan was
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Afellay
Aug 7, 2015 14:50:39 GMT
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Post by stokebloke on Aug 7, 2015 14:50:39 GMT
Fonz was a good player for stoke but that is all..we will not miss him as much as some people are saying.
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Afellay
Aug 7, 2015 14:53:41 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 14:53:41 GMT
Looking like a beast is an over rated attribute for a midfield player.
Swansea have got by just fine with midgets in their midfield.
I can't see a midfield of Whelan, one of van Ginkel or Affelay and one of Adam or Bojan being destroyed by anyone unless they have a seriously bad day at the office.
If we play Sidwell, Whelan and Adam on Sunday then I'd be a little worried, but I would be surprised if we played such an immobile midfield given Hughes has added pace to the team ever since he got here.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 14:55:59 GMT
Fonz was a good player for stoke but that is all..we will not miss him as much as some people are saying. I agree with this. He's a non goal scorer or assist getter and he's definitely not a defensive midfielder. He reminds me of the likes of McCarthy or Allen (at Swansea), they get appreciated by their own fans but they are very replaceable.
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Afellay
Aug 7, 2015 14:58:59 GMT
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Aug 7, 2015 14:58:59 GMT
This. The amount of times i was exasperated with Nzonzi slowing play down week on week, so infuriating at times..the talent is obviously there with Nzonzi but some have made him out to be some sort of Yaya Toure...the amount of games he grabbed by the scruff of the neck you could count on the fingers of two hands (a normal four fingered hand not these Cheddleton type hands)!!! You have Cheddleton type hands? I wish! I have piano players hands.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 15:13:27 GMT
I don't see Afellay as an N'Zonzi replacement, but I do sense some similarities between Afellay and Dembele. Not that I've knowingly seen Afellay kick a ball for us, or anyone, for about 3 years...
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Afellay
Aug 7, 2015 15:30:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 15:30:10 GMT
With Shawcross out and Nzonzi gone, we need the physicality that Adam brings, Ireland is a wet fart Nowt wrong with a wet fart, especially if it's in bed and you can waft the covers to annoy the missus
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