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Post by MilanStokie on Aug 7, 2015 19:11:10 GMT
no probably not, but you have got to think, if we have 4 suitable options in the position why would we sign another, regardless of how the fans rate each of them? if a player gets injured you use the support that you put in place, surely you don't buy another? it would be highly neglegent to the squad players. when else will they get a chance? It all rather depends on who those players are doesn't it? We're talking about one of the best players in the team possibly being out for a long time. Would you say the current options we have are 'suitable' to step into his shoes long-term? I wouldn't want Wolly or Cameron there for any period of time and Wilson is prone to switching off at times too. ok but it doesn't matter what we want or think as fans. the manager bought these players for a reason so when their chance comes you can't just skip them and sign someone else. I wouldn't want them long term either but that's the whole point of a squad...
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Post by pottersrule on Aug 7, 2015 19:11:08 GMT
no probably not, but you have got to think, if we have 4 suitable options in the position why would we sign another, regardless of how the fans rate each of them? if a player gets injured you use the support that you put in place, surely you don't buy another? it would be highly neglegent to the squad players. when else will they get a chance? It all rather depends on who those players are doesn't it? We're talking about one of the best players in the team possibly being out for a long time. Would you say the current options we have are 'suitable' to step into his shoes long-term? I wouldn't want Wolly or Cameron there for any period of time and Wilson is prone to switching off at times too. We did very well in the league,during his last absence.
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Post by themistocles on Aug 7, 2015 19:11:31 GMT
I can't see the Coates' underestimating the importance of Shawcross myself, I think hughes would be backed with additional funds if we showed them a player head and shoulders above the 'cover', Shawcross could well be out until the new year, if we start to struggle defensively it could be a long season. central defence is a massive position, not least a club captain and your best defender I agree with you we need a replacement, but it'll be at the expense of the "next level winger". Expect Lennon and Dawson ...
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Post by chiefdelilah on Aug 7, 2015 19:16:10 GMT
It all rather depends on who those players are doesn't it? We're talking about one of the best players in the team possibly being out for a long time. Would you say the current options we have are 'suitable' to step into his shoes long-term? I wouldn't want Wolly or Cameron there for any period of time and Wilson is prone to switching off at times too. ok but it doesn't matter what we want or think as fans. the manager bought these players for a reason so when their chance comes you can't just skip them and sign someone else. I wouldn't want them long term either but that's the whole point of a squad... It doesn't matter what we think no but I'll wager the manager wasn't banking on losing his best defender for months either. Why can't you just skip them and sign someone else in those circumstances?
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Post by chiefdelilah on Aug 7, 2015 19:17:26 GMT
It all rather depends on who those players are doesn't it? We're talking about one of the best players in the team possibly being out for a long time. Would you say the current options we have are 'suitable' to step into his shoes long-term? I wouldn't want Wolly or Cameron there for any period of time and Wilson is prone to switching off at times too. We did very well in the league,during his last absence. We might be fine. Can you honestly say what we've got fills you with confidence though?
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Post by chiefdelilah on Aug 7, 2015 19:17:43 GMT
I can't see the Coates' underestimating the importance of Shawcross myself, I think hughes would be backed with additional funds if we showed them a player head and shoulders above the 'cover', Shawcross could well be out until the new year, if we start to struggle defensively it could be a long season. central defence is a massive position, not least a club captain and your best defender I agree with you we need a replacement, but it'll be at the expense of the "next level winger". Expect Lennon and Dawson ... I think that would improve us as things stand.
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Post by pottersrule on Aug 7, 2015 19:25:28 GMT
We did very well in the league,during his last absence. We might be fine. Can you honestly say what we've got fills you with confidence though? Not particularly,but neither does Dawson.There isn't an abundance of premier league central defenders available that are better than what we have are there?
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Post by chiefdelilah on Aug 7, 2015 19:27:07 GMT
We might be fine. Can you honestly say what we've got fills you with confidence though? Not particularly,but neither does Dawson.There isn't an abundance of premier league central defenders available that are better than what we have are there? Do they necessarily have to be Premier League? There's a whole world out there.
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Post by Sergeant Muttley on Aug 7, 2015 19:28:32 GMT
What Sparky said today[whether he means it or not] really does cause me concern if he thinks we are strong enough in the centre back position without Ryan.We needed a centre half imo before his injury so we are now DESPERATE for a DOMINANT replacement before the window closes but the sooner the better for me.
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Post by harryburrows on Aug 7, 2015 19:28:43 GMT
My first thought would be to call around his top 6 colleagues and see if they have anyone available for a 6 month loan deal .
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Post by pottersrule on Aug 7, 2015 19:31:09 GMT
Not particularly,but neither does Dawson.There isn't an abundance of premier league central defenders available that are better than what we have are there? Do they necessarily have to be Premier League? There's a whole world out there. Tried and tested,of premier league standard?
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Post by chiefdelilah on Aug 7, 2015 19:32:41 GMT
Do they necessarily have to be Premier League? There's a whole world out there. Tried and tested,of premier league standard? I'd settle for experienced or highly rated, even if they hadn't played in England before.
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Post by pottersrule on Aug 7, 2015 19:37:28 GMT
Tried and tested,of premier league standard? I'd settle for experienced or highly rated, even if they hadn't played in England before. As is Woolly,and look what happened there.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Aug 7, 2015 19:38:03 GMT
I'd settle for experienced or highly rated, even if they hadn't played in England before. As is Woolly,and look what happened there. Let's never sign anyone from abroad ever ever again then eh?
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Post by pottersrule on Aug 7, 2015 19:40:48 GMT
As is Woolly,and look what happened there. Let's never sign anyone from abroad ever ever again then eh? Your missing the point.What is the point in signing players of unknown quantities?
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Post by chiefdelilah on Aug 7, 2015 19:44:27 GMT
Let's never sign anyone from abroad ever ever again then eh? Your missing the point.What is the point in signing players of unknown quantities? What, in general? An experienced defender of fine pedigree is going to have a decent chance of adapting to most leagues isn't he? There are numerous examples of defenders who've done that throughout the league. Again, it might be that we've got enough to be ok but I'd feel much better with a top class centre back or at least an experienced hand brought in to cover Ryan because the current crop is hit and miss at best.
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Post by st4scfc on Aug 7, 2015 19:48:21 GMT
I've always rated micheal turner myself, he's a leader 6'4 with premiership experience and 31 yoa. Wether he could still do a job now short term is matter of opinion though
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Post by st4scfc on Aug 7, 2015 20:13:21 GMT
Then there is daniel agger aswell ex liverpool at brondby, played champions league, vice captain at liverpool and lots of prem experience.
There are players out there if we are prepared to find them
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Post by agingerstokie on Aug 7, 2015 20:19:09 GMT
Danny Agger is not going to come to Stoke, he left Liverpool to go to Bromby because it's his club
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Post by AlliG on Aug 7, 2015 20:31:12 GMT
Isn't the most sensible approach to wait and see how Ryan's operation goes, before we go into melt down on here?
Once it is known how successful it has been, whether there was more or less damage than anticipated etc, then a more accurate assessment of how long he may be out can be made.
Surely then is the time to decide what type of replacement, if any and for how long, is required.
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Post by MilanStokie on Aug 7, 2015 21:09:11 GMT
ok but it doesn't matter what we want or think as fans. the manager bought these players for a reason so when their chance comes you can't just skip them and sign someone else. I wouldn't want them long term either but that's the whole point of a squad... It doesn't matter what we think no but I'll wager the manager wasn't banking on losing his best defender for months either. Why can't you just skip them and sign someone else in those circumstances? because we have 4 capable backups. if we aren't prepared to use them when needed why are they even in our 25? more importantly what message does it send out to those 7 or so that will rarely make the bench let alone the 11. when the opportunity presents itself to them the club just go and buy someone else?
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Post by st4scfc on Aug 7, 2015 21:15:10 GMT
It doesn't matter what we think no but I'll wager the manager wasn't banking on losing his best defender for months either. Why can't you just skip them and sign someone else in those circumstances? because we have 4 capable backups. if we aren't prepared to use them when needed why are they even in our 25? more importantly what message does it send out to those 7 or so that will rarely make the bench let alone the 11. when the opportunity presents itself to them the club just go and buy someone else? you could argue the case that two of them are utility players and wollscheid isn't good enough, that leaves muniesa.... but that's none of my business though
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 7, 2015 21:16:36 GMT
My first thought would be to call around his top 6 colleagues and see if they have anyone available for a 6 month loan deal . What about Leicester not top six I know but they proved how well they could defend post the January transfer window last season, just a thought.
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Post by MilanStokie on Aug 7, 2015 21:18:05 GMT
because we have 4 capable backups. if we aren't prepared to use them when needed why are they even in our 25? more importantly what message does it send out to those 7 or so that will rarely make the bench let alone the 11. when the opportunity presents itself to them the club just go and buy someone else? you could argue the case that two of them are utility players and wollscheid isn't good enough, that leaves muniesa.... but that's none of my business though utility or not they are both a part of the quota of available and capable centre backs. 1 of them was used regularly there last season... yours and my personal opinion if wollscheid is worthless, hughes loaned him, hughes made it permanent and therefore obviously rates him and intends to use him.
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 7, 2015 21:22:21 GMT
Let's never sign anyone from abroad ever ever again then eh? Your missing the point.What is the point in signing players of unknown quantities? We have signed a German of know quantities to ourselves, Mark and his team rated him enough to sell a match fit Huth and spend the proceeds on him, so he must be at least as good if not better so we can all stop worrying.
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 7, 2015 21:31:01 GMT
you could argue the case that two of them are utility players and wollscheid isn't good enough, that leaves muniesa.... but that's none of my business though utility or not they are both a part of the quota of available and capable centre backs. 1 of them was used regularly there last season... yours and my personal opinion if wollscheid is worthless, hughes loaned him, hughes made it permanent and therefore obviously rates him and intends to use him. Indeed Hughes loaned him dropped him for the last four games then spent £3million to sign him permanently, now let's see if he trusts him to start on Sunday , he has after all had a full pre season to assess his suitability as Ryans replacement, if he doesn't what message will that give to the player and supporters. Hopefully he has the conviction to back his judgement on his decision to sign Wolfy.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Aug 7, 2015 22:48:12 GMT
It doesn't matter what we think no but I'll wager the manager wasn't banking on losing his best defender for months either. Why can't you just skip them and sign someone else in those circumstances? because we have 4 capable backups. if we aren't prepared to use them when needed why are they even in our 25? more importantly what message does it send out to those 7 or so that will rarely make the bench let alone the 11. when the opportunity presents itself to them the club just go and buy someone else? Again, we're not talking about replacing anybody, we're talking about replacing the player who has held the defence together for the last four years. Marc Wilson is no Ryan Shawcross. Cameron and Wollscheid combined barely add up to half a Ryan Shawcross. I'd feel much happier if we had someone to call on who was vaguely in his stratosphere. I don't see at least two of the centre half options we have left as especially capable and there are question marks over at least one of the other two as well.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 7, 2015 22:52:42 GMT
We need more than a capable back up. We need a capable starter, none of them are.
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Post by meirparkpotter on Aug 8, 2015 4:05:30 GMT
I think Hughes and the board will see how we get on until Christmas, and then look to change things in January if it all goes pear shaped. This is based on Hughes saying he has adequate cover. Could prove risky business though!
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Post by MilanStokie on Aug 8, 2015 9:59:32 GMT
because we have 4 capable backups. if we aren't prepared to use them when needed why are they even in our 25? more importantly what message does it send out to those 7 or so that will rarely make the bench let alone the 11. when the opportunity presents itself to them the club just go and buy someone else? Again, we're not talking about replacing anybody, we're talking about replacing the player who has held the defence together for the last four years. Marc Wilson is no Ryan Shawcross. Cameron and Wollscheid combined barely add up to half a Ryan Shawcross. I'd feel much happier if we had someone to call on who was vaguely in his stratosphere. I don't see at least two of the centre half options we have left as especially capable and there are question marks over at least one of the other two as well. mate if it comes down to opinion i am 100% in agreement with you. we fully need a presence such as ryan holding the back 4 together, however, in hughes' 2 years thus far he has not shown any interest in bringing in a cb similar to the style and quality of ryan. instead he chose muniesa, pieters, Bardsley, wollscheid and johnson. he would prefer a selection of 3 rb over a ryan like backup. so why now is he going to pursue it? I am convinced he will use Cameron and wollscheid depending on who is upfront for the other team until January.
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