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Post by geoff321 on Apr 22, 2015 7:36:27 GMT
The worst thing we can do is make the referee the centre of attention, some want to do it before the game, during the game and after the game. I think I can remember the time when most of us didn't know who the ref was until we opened the match day programme.
Obsessing with officials and all sorts of conspiracy theories can only detract from the enjoyment of the game in my opinion, best to accept they are human and make mistakes like we all do and concentrate on the football.
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Post by Pugsley on Apr 22, 2015 7:53:11 GMT
How is Atkinson refereeing in the Champions' League? Has every single other referee in Europe dropped dead? The school of thought within the FA is that he is the best we have and will more than likely be our representative at Euro 2016. Quite incredible really given the mistakes he's made, along with the decision to give Moss the Cup Final. Clattenburg is by far the best ref in the league.
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Post by haway on Apr 22, 2015 8:03:18 GMT
he always does his best to help sunderland and newcastle win. I guess someone doesn't want our streak of not having a player sent off in a league match to end. I hope you don't mean help Sunderland win in general... Games Atkinson has referreed for Sunderland this season: -Man U 2-0 Sunderland -Sunderland 0-2 QPR -Aston Villa 0-0 Sunderland -Sunderland 1-1 Man U He hasn't done a very good job
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Apr 22, 2015 8:06:34 GMT
he always does his best to help sunderland and newcastle win. I guess someone doesn't want our streak of not having a player sent off in a league match to end. I hope you don't mean help Sunderland win in general... Games Atkinson has referreed for Sunderland this season: -Man U 2-0 Sunderland -Sunderland 0-2 QPR -Aston Villa 0-0 Sunderland -Sunderland 1-1 Man U He hasn't done a very good job Looking at your season as a whole I'd say he helped you out a lot in those games. At least he kept the scores down.
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Post by geoff321 on Apr 22, 2015 8:14:48 GMT
Although there have been some high profile errors lately the standard of refereeing has probably never been higher, what has changed is the complexity of the rules and the scrutiny they are under, plus the money that goes with success makes makes the officials decisions that much more vital.
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Post by y_oh_y_delilah on Apr 22, 2015 9:30:21 GMT
As Smithy says, we can all look forward to Atkinson's masterclass in abysmal refereeing.
A total and utter wanker of the highest order.
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Post by thestatusquo on Apr 22, 2015 10:10:02 GMT
Although there have been some high profile errors lately the standard of refereeing has probably never been higher, what has changed is the complexity of the rules and the scrutiny they are under, plus the money that goes with success makes makes the officials decisions that much more vital. You couldn't be more wrong Geoff. When the likes of the perennial fence sitters like Shearer start saying that its getting worse and they need help I think I'll go with his opinion rather than yours if that's ok.
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Post by geoff321 on Apr 22, 2015 12:14:41 GMT
If all refs are getting worse, and I don't think they are, then that would have to point to specific reasons which as I said would be gamesmanship, complex rules many of which are subjective, scrutiny by television and money. Also status fans cannot measure the performance of a referee based on his record in games concerning their club, they are too biased to do that in my opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2015 12:27:16 GMT
I fully expect him to run over and celebrate with the away fans after giving a 97th minute penalty to Sunderland....he's that bad!
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Post by thedeadlyshart on Apr 22, 2015 13:19:29 GMT
he always does his best to help sunderland and newcastle win. I guess someone doesn't want our streak of not having a player sent off in a league match to end. I hope you don't mean help Sunderland win in general... Games Atkinson has referreed for Sunderland this season: -Man U 2-0 Sunderland -Sunderland 0-2 QPR -Aston Villa 0-0 Sunderland -Sunderland 1-1 Man U He hasn't done a very good job the red card he showed Delph in the game against aston villa, the red card he showed Huth last time he presided over a stoke v sunderland match. He tries his best.
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Post by Staying up for Grandadstokey on Apr 22, 2015 13:21:31 GMT
If all refs are getting worse, and I don't think they are, then that would have to point to specific reasons which as I said would be gamesmanship, complex rules many of which are subjective, scrutiny by television and money. Also status fans cannot measure the performance of a referee based on his record in games concerning their club, they are too biased to do that in my opinion. You are right to a certain extent particularly as any sides supporters are quite naturally biased.However whilst I agree that the modern game is more difficult to manage,what I don't get is why foreign referees in general always seem to be much better than ours.Years ago the opposite was the case.
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Post by onionman on Apr 22, 2015 16:09:25 GMT
If all refs are getting worse, and I don't think they are, then that would have to point to specific reasons which as I said would be gamesmanship, complex rules many of which are subjective, scrutiny by television and money. Also status fans cannot measure the performance of a referee based on his record in games concerning their club, they are too biased to do that in my opinion. Some truth in that post Geoff. It is without doubt harder to referee than ever before, for all the reasons you outline. My biggest problem with the refs isn't that they make mistakes. I accept mistakes are a necessary part of football and that refs are human. My problem is that the mistakes consistently favour certain sides over others, so there's no chance of them evening out over time. Yes, that's partly because some teams are more likely to practise gamesmanship, and some managers are more powerful than others, meaning they can intimidate the refs to their team's advantage. But it's also because refs know it's far worse for their career to upset a big team than it is to upset a small team. Some retired refs have admitted that. So that problem is being caused by the refs themselves, or certainly it's the fault of the culture of the career referee. If, sadly, we accept that gamesmanship, bullying managers and a hysterical biased national media are never going away, the solution is either: 1) Get rid of career referees. Widen the pool so that there are dozens of amateur or part-time referees, none of whom get to be famous Premier League referees, all of whom know that it makes no difference what decisions they give in a game between Man Utd and Burnley, because the following week they will be back in League Two anyway. That would instantly remove the problem of refs feeling they'll be rewarded for favouring big clubs (or punished for penalising big clubs). 2) Get rid of refs altogether. Let one club officiate the first half, and the other club officiate the second half. Players will be forced to behave properly or football will be reduced to anarchy. 3) Let Roger East referee every single match. He doesn't favour anyone, he's just an idiot.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2015 16:16:35 GMT
We could make it so much easier for referees. Strap a camera to their foreheads and instead of all of these fancy camera angle replays, just play a one off replay from the head cam at full speed.
That way you see the ref's angle at his speed and at least understand why he's made the decision.
I think the idea has already been mooted though and rejected by the ref chiefs. I wonder why?
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Post by adi on Apr 22, 2015 16:31:52 GMT
We could make it so much easier for referees. Strap a camera to their foreheads and instead of all of these fancy camera angle replays, just play a one off replay from the head cam at full speed. That way you see the ref's angle at his speed and at least understand why he's made the decision. I think the idea has already been mooted though and rejected by the ref chiefs. I wonder why? Make it easier how? Make it easier by giving them access to slowed down replays, using the 4th official.
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Post by onionman on Apr 22, 2015 16:40:29 GMT
Instead of a camera on his forehead, insert a chip into the referee's brain, attached to an old-fashioned electro-shock generator, so that when he gives a decision that isn't 100 percent honest, he gets a mild electric shock.
The more and more dishonest decisions he gives throughout the match, the more powerful the electric shock.
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Post by skip on Apr 22, 2015 17:41:22 GMT
If all refs are getting worse, and I don't think they are, then that would have to point to specific reasons which as I said would be gamesmanship, complex rules many of which are subjective, scrutiny by television and money. Also status fans cannot measure the performance of a referee based on his record in games concerning their club, they are too biased to do that in my opinion. So football has been tainted from all angles yet referees are blameless?
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Post by geoff321 on Apr 22, 2015 18:12:15 GMT
Seems to me om that there are three basic problems with the officials, at least according to this board.
Human error.
Favouring the home team or the biggest clubs.
Incompetence.
In my opinion the only way to improve, but not eliminate, these problems is by the use of video technology but what we don't know is at what cost to the natural flow of the game.
In response to you skip I think officials are the victims of the way the game as evolved and not in anyway the cause of it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2015 18:24:36 GMT
We could make it so much easier for referees. Strap a camera to their foreheads and instead of all of these fancy camera angle replays, just play a one off replay from the head cam at full speed. That way you see the ref's angle at his speed and at least understand why he's made the decision. I think the idea has already been mooted though and rejected by the ref chiefs. I wonder why? Make it easier how? Make it easier by giving them access to slowed down replays, using the 4th official. You keep the integrity of the game intact whilst gaining respect for the officials. If we all saw first-ish hand how quick the game is and how much of a split second decision refs have to make we might think twice about having a go at them. Video technology might naturally follow.
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Post by onionman on Apr 22, 2015 18:54:28 GMT
Seems to me om that there are three basic problems with the officials, at least according to this board. Human error. Favouring the home team or the biggest clubs. Incompetence. In my opinion the only way to improve, but not eliminate, these problems is by the use of video technology but what we don't know is at what cost to the natural flow of the game. In response to you skip I think officials are the victims of the way the game as evolved and not in anyway the cause of it. I think video technology would help with human error and incompetence (one and the same thing really). However I don't think it would be completely effective with the favouring of the biggest clubs. The fifth official sat in a room with a TV screen would be as influenced by the fear of a Mourinho/Wenger backlash as the ref on the pitch, for those 50/50 decisions that still require individual interpretation.
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Post by geoff321 on Apr 22, 2015 19:15:13 GMT
Firstly I think there is a significant difference between human error and incompetence. Secondly surely a referee is more frightened of making a mistake and being exposed on television in front of millions of viewers than he is of any backlash from Mourinho or Wenger.
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Post by derbypotter2 on Apr 22, 2015 19:32:49 GMT
I think onionman is absolutely spot on here.
It's always bad news when 'TW' Atkinson gets appointed for one of our games, but when it's for one of our games against a north east team you just know it's a lost cause.
On three occasions in recent times (2 Sunderland, 1 Newcastle) he's been so appallingly bad that you simply can't put it down to his usual incompetence. No man can be that incompetent - it just isn't possible.
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Post by onionman on Apr 22, 2015 19:51:05 GMT
Firstly I think there is a significant difference between human error and incompetence. Secondly surely a referee is more frightened of making a mistake and being exposed on television in front of millions of viewers than he is of any backlash from Mourinho or Wenger. In terms of refereeing, human error and incompetence amount to the same thing. It's blokes making honest mistakes, for whatever reason. And I don't mind that, hence why I am bumbling idiot Roger East's biggest fan. On the second point, Ferguson has stated he deliberately intimidated officials into giving his teams the benefit of the doubt. Various referees have acknowledged this too. But really it's irrelevant whether the refs are afraid of a backlash from Wenger/Mourinho/Ferguson or whether they're afraid of the backlash of millions of fans from Arsenal/Chelsea/Man Utd watching on TV. The end result is the same: the benefit of the doubt goes to the big club.
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Post by 2004 on Apr 22, 2015 22:30:35 GMT
If all refs are getting worse, and I don't think they are, then that would have to point to specific reasons which as I said would be gamesmanship, complex rules many of which are subjective, scrutiny by television and money. Also status fans cannot measure the performance of a referee based on his record in games concerning their club, they are too biased to do that in my opinion. Some truth in that post Geoff. It is without doubt harder to referee than ever before, for all the reasons you outline. My biggest problem with the refs isn't that they make mistakes. I accept mistakes are a necessary part of football and that refs are human. My problem is that the mistakes consistently favour certain sides over others, so there's no chance of them evening out over time. Yes, that's partly because some teams are more likely to practise gamesmanship, and some managers are more powerful than others, meaning they can intimidate the refs to their team's advantage. But it's also because refs know it's far worse for their career to upset a big team than it is to upset a small team. Some retired refs have admitted that. So that problem is being caused by the refs themselves, or certainly it's the fault of the culture of the career referee. If, sadly, we accept that gamesmanship, bullying managers and a hysterical biased national media are never going away, the solution is either: 1) Get rid of career referees. Widen the pool so that there are dozens of amateur or part-time referees, none of whom get to be famous Premier League referees, all of whom know that it makes no difference what decisions they give in a game between Man Utd and Burnley, because the following week they will be back in League Two anyway. That would instantly remove the problem of refs feeling they'll be rewarded for favouring big clubs (or punished for penalising big clubs). 2) Get rid of refs altogether. Let one club officiate the first half, and the other club officiate the second half. Players will be forced to behave properly or football will be reduced to anarchy. 3) Let Roger East referee every single match. He doesn't favour anyone, he's just an idiot.
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Post by haway on Apr 23, 2015 7:08:18 GMT
I think onionman is absolutely spot on here. It's always bad news when 'TW' Atkinson gets appointed for one of our games, but when it's for one of our games against a north east team you just know it's a lost cause. On three occasions in recent times (2 Sunderland, 1 Newcastle) he's been so appallingly bad that you simply can't put it down to his usual incompetence. No man can be that incompetent - it just isn't possible. Kevin Friend...
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Post by haway on Apr 23, 2015 7:14:19 GMT
I hope you don't mean help Sunderland win in general... Games Atkinson has referreed for Sunderland this season: -Man U 2-0 Sunderland -Sunderland 0-2 QPR -Aston Villa 0-0 Sunderland -Sunderland 1-1 Man U He hasn't done a very good job the red card he showed Delph in the game against aston villa, the red card he showed Huth last time he presided over a stoke v sunderland match. He tries his best. That red for Delph was the correct decision - he left his studs up high to catch Gomez on his ankle, and could have easily resulted in a broken leg. The Huth one was a few years ago, but yes that one was an error.
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Post by ohbottom on Apr 23, 2015 8:26:53 GMT
It didn't help us when he sent off Huth, nor when he ignored Cattermole's handball on the line, in the same match he sent off one of our men for something really trivial.I suspect he's not so much a Newcastle fan, as a fan of North East football in general. He's Newcastle/Sunderland's answer to Geoff321. news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/9154670.stmI still have the occasional fume about this. Those were the days when Bego used to save the occasional penalty
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Post by yankiegeoff on Apr 23, 2015 19:01:10 GMT
Any bookies I can use to have a yellow/red card bet for saturday? Guaranteed with this fucking clown.
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Post by numpty40 on Apr 23, 2015 19:12:07 GMT
We could make it so much easier for referees. Strap a camera to their foreheads and instead of all of these fancy camera angle replays, just play a one off replay from the head cam at full speed. That way you see the ref's angle at his speed and at least understand why he's made the decision. I think the idea has already been mooted though and rejected by the ref chiefs. I wonder why? Have you ever seen an investigative journalist running after his subject with a camera? The pictures are jumping all over the place. Imagine trying to view footage when the ref is sprinting to keep up whilst quickly turning his head right and left looking for infringements. Not your best idea mate
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Post by colinroberts1 on Apr 24, 2015 7:36:53 GMT
A load 'twatkinson na,na,na, twatkinson na,na,na'. Should do it. followed by 'there's only one mark clattenburg' till he drops to his knee's sobbing like a little babby
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Post by rickyisgod on Apr 24, 2015 20:39:02 GMT
By the law of averages we will win one day with this fuckin bell end in charge
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