|
Post by cheekymatt71 on Apr 13, 2015 7:51:35 GMT
Good comments on this thread and at least we seem united in not wanting this kind of behaviour from our fans.
Not sure on how to stop these morons without going back to the dreaded True Supporter cards
|
|
|
Post by kustokie on Apr 13, 2015 7:56:11 GMT
I will reiterate that the song is classless and embarrasses the good name of our club and each and everyone of the true football supporters that follow it. It is embarrassing to abuse Bobby Moore at all given his standing at their club and it is totally unnecessary. To bring Jimmy Saville into it, whether about Bobby Moore, Trevor Brooking or even their retarded bespectacled idiot who was every bit is stupid as some of our own supporters, is just wrong and has no place at a football game. However, I would like to highlight a little experience of my own day, as a way of crediting West Ham because at times, football supporting is alive and well. I took my little lad for his first proper lads day out. Early train out of Stoke, day in London, game and late train home. We were sat right next to West Ham fans against the mesh segregation and when Arnie scored his late disallowed goal we were up, celebrating an equaliser. When it was disallowed my boy was devastated and was fighting back the tears. Out of the corner of my eye I caught a West Ham fan point out my lad to his girlfriend/wife and make a "ahh" gesture. Obviously, seconds later we had the delight of a equalising goal and we went mental. Our first proper "dad and lad" mental. Once the euphoria had died down, I caught the eye of the same West Ham fan, who whilst clearly gutted by his teams concession of an equaliser found it within himself to flash a smile and a thumbs up to my boy. Walking back to the Central pub en route to East Ham station, loads of them spoke to us, ruffled his hair, commented on his Bojan strip etc etc. That is what football is about. Banter inside the ground, creating as intimidating an atmosphere as possible for the opposition team during the game, but then being able to appreciate fellow football supporters, who you have a common bond with by virtue of the fact that we're all proper supporters who invest time, money and energy supporting our teams. West Ham are a cracking club with, in the main, super supporters as are we. These idiots are a disgrace who have no place at football regardless of who they support. Such chants have no place at West Ham and no place at football in general and a section of our supporters are complete and utter morons (and that is being kind to them). Great post. Had my first "lad and dad" mental too. I'm 59 and he's 24 - Better late than never!
|
|
|
Post by jeycov on Apr 13, 2015 8:13:19 GMT
Good comments on this thread and at least we seem united in not wanting this kind of behaviour from our fans. Not sure on how to stop these morons without going back to the dreaded True Supporter cards I'm sure that all clubs are doing everything they can to track down the "ring leaders" in such incidents, their behaviour will / is having a direct impact on how many away tickets are allocated. Another concern is how quickly others (a significant number at times) seem to join in with the chanting without thinking about the extremely abusive wording.
|
|
|
Post by geoff321 on Apr 13, 2015 8:23:30 GMT
You would have thought that the rising cost of watching football would have kept away fans likely to behave like this. One solution that might just work is to try and get many more fans like waggy and Keith and hope their behaviour spreads to other fans.
|
|
|
Post by scfcno1fan on Apr 13, 2015 8:29:22 GMT
You would have thought that the rising cost of watching football would have kept away fans likely to behave like this. One solution that might just work is to try and get many more fans like waggy and Keith and hope their behaviour spreads to other fans. That word may have saved you there Geoff. I don't think you can make a direct correlation between income and behaviour. In fact, I'm sure the majority of our fans who scrimp and save to attend games are a credit to the club and our fanbase.
|
|
|
Post by birdaking on Apr 13, 2015 8:35:56 GMT
As a 25 year old born and bred stoke fan I have to say that it is nothing more than banter. Its a different generation now and that is our sense of humor. Try single me out but even the amount of abuse we give each other as friends alone is more offensive that what's being cried over here. I didn't start the songs but I LOVED the west ham reaction. Seriously avoid a warehouse job in stoke if you were offended at the game
|
|
|
Post by jmst4 on Apr 13, 2015 8:40:29 GMT
Good comments on this thread and at least we seem united in not wanting this kind of behaviour from our fans. Not sure on how to stop these morons without going back to the dreaded True Supporter cards I'm sure that all clubs are doing everything they can to track down the "ring leaders" in such incidents, their behaviour will / is having a direct impact on how many away tickets are allocated. Another concern is how quickly others (a significant number at times) seem to join in with the chanting without thinking about the extremely abusive wording. I am sure they aren't. Why? Because when it comes down to it they aren't breaking any laws. Look, I think its a grubby little chant, but I am not as morally offended by it as some appear to be - it is just really embarrassing and small time. There seems to be an attitude from some on here that our support is becoming progressively worse and somehow worse than other away supports, but frankly I just don't see it. I can see the argument for seeking out those that are violent, those that racially abuse others and those that use flares in confined spaces - because they are a threat to safety and against the law (also, it would appear we have less problems with these an other sets of supporters). But the insinuation by some that people should be banned for singing and saying things, within the law, but that others don't like is where things become problematic. That we should appoint select individuals as arbitrators of taste and decency among football supporters, does not sound particularly encouraging.
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 13, 2015 8:42:14 GMT
As a 25 year old born and bred stoke fan I have to say that it is nothing more than banter. Its a different generation now and that is our sense of humor. Try single me out but even the amount of abuse we give each other as friends alone is more offensive that what's being cried over here. I didn't start the songs but I LOVED the west ham reaction. Seriously avoid a warehouse job in stoke if you were offended at the game You are right. You are a different generation and it isn't a good thing. Yours is a generation lacking in common decency, respect, discipline and dare I say it both education and aspiration. Joking about Jimmy Saville isn't funny, it isn't banter and it has no place at any football match.
|
|
|
Post by Fenparkpotter on Apr 13, 2015 8:47:55 GMT
As a 25 year old born and bred stoke fan I have to say that it is nothing more than banter. Its a different generation now and that is our sense of humor. Try single me out but even the amount of abuse we give each other as friends alone is more offensive that what's being cried over here. I didn't start the songs but I LOVED the west ham reaction. Seriously avoid a warehouse job in stoke if you were offended at the game I'm 26, you don't speak for my generation.
|
|
|
Post by jmst4 on Apr 13, 2015 8:50:26 GMT
As a 25 year old born and bred stoke fan I have to say that it is nothing more than banter. Its a different generation now and that is our sense of humor. Try single me out but even the amount of abuse we give each other as friends alone is more offensive that what's being cried over here. I didn't start the songs but I LOVED the west ham reaction. Seriously avoid a warehouse job in stoke if you were offended at the game Not that it isn't a noble profession, but I think some may need little encouragement to 'avoid a warehouse job in stoke'.
|
|
|
Post by cheekymatt71 on Apr 13, 2015 8:54:20 GMT
As a 25 year old born and bred stoke fan I have to say that it is nothing more than banter. Its a different generation now and that is our sense of humor. Try single me out but even the amount of abuse we give each other as friends alone is more offensive that what's being cried over here. I didn't start the songs but I LOVED the west ham reaction. Seriously avoid a warehouse job in stoke if you were offended at the game We had banter in our day too but it was based on a modicum of intelligence and humour.
|
|
|
Post by geoff321 on Apr 13, 2015 8:56:08 GMT
I have no doubt scf that there are many hardworking people who scrimp and save to watch Stoke and are a credit to the club. The fact remains though that at most PL games there is significant police and steward activity both at the game itself and behind the scenes.
My question about modern day football would be why a sporting event requires this sort of security if we are simply talking about a tiny minority of people who are just engaged in banter. I think we all know that if you removed the majority of the police and stewards you would risk serious disorder and violence and we should stop and ask ourselves why on earth that should be the case.
|
|
|
Post by liathroid on Apr 13, 2015 9:03:46 GMT
|
|
|
Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Apr 13, 2015 9:08:13 GMT
As a 25 year old born and bred stoke fan I have to say that it is nothing more than banter. Its a different generation now and that is our sense of humor. Try single me out but even the amount of abuse we give each other as friends alone is more offensive that what's being cried over here. I didn't start the songs but I LOVED the west ham reaction. Seriously avoid a warehouse job in stoke if you were offended at the game Your generation are fucking pathetic if you find that funny. I'm glad that I'm older and much wiser. For the record, I would avoid a warehouse job if it meant working alongside a bunch of disrespectful numpties. Be warned, there's a lot of older fans that are getting very pissed off and some of our younger supporters will be challenged, sooner rather than later.
|
|
|
Post by kustokie on Apr 13, 2015 9:12:01 GMT
As a 25 year old born and bred stoke fan I have to say that it is nothing more than banter. Its a different generation now and that is our sense of humor. Try single me out but even the amount of abuse we give each other as friends alone is more offensive that what's being cried over here. I didn't start the songs but I LOVED the west ham reaction. Seriously avoid a warehouse job in stoke if you were offended at the game We had banter in our day too but it was based on a modicum of intelligence and humour. My 20 something son and his two cousins didn't think it was funny either. Not sure if I remember the "good-old days" being exactly perfect: the banter was a bit different, but the hooliganism was much worse. Sometimes it was bloody dangerous, especially at away games. I distinctly remember being charged more than once outside the Stoke End by a police horse who was breaking up rival "fans" - sacred the crap out of me!
|
|
|
Post by kustokie on Apr 13, 2015 9:15:05 GMT
We had banter in our day too but it was based on a modicum of intelligence and humour. My 20 something son and his two cousins didn't think it was funny either. However, I am not sure if I remember the "good-old days" being exactly perfect either: the banter was a bit different, but the hooliganism was much worse. Sometimes it was bloody dangerous, especially at away games. I distinctly remember being charged more than once by police horses who were trying to break up rival "fans" - sacred the crap out of me!
|
|
|
Post by birdaking on Apr 13, 2015 9:17:30 GMT
I knew I would be insulted but ah well, tbh I just don't really have any opinion on it I just don't think its as bad as its being made out but that was my fault for how it came across and no I don't speak for everyone around my age but in my defense growing up with tv how it is and all the social media it does seem nothing is off topic any more so when a chant starts off like that I'm not offended but I was offended by what was said to walking home from the Brit bumping into west ham fans.... The difference FOR ME there is what ever abuse is thrown over the pitch stays at the ground. I don't look for fights, I don't drink, I don't do drugs, I watch my language around young children, I'm not the most educated but I wont give up until I understand and I'm ALWAYS polite so no there's NOTHING wrong with my generation just the odd bad egg like back in the days of pissing in peoples pockets or the naughty 40. I see us all as stoke fans and it makes me proud that for 1 day everyone from the city comes together to cheer 1 for thing and I just don't understand how you can turn on other fans for a difference of opinion? Once again I don't agree with saville but I'm not offended by it either
|
|
|
Post by jmst4 on Apr 13, 2015 9:20:38 GMT
I knew I would be insulted but ah well, tbh I just don't really have any opinion on it I just don't think its as bad as its being made out but that was my fault for how it came across and no I don't speak for everyone around my age but in my defense growing up with tv how it is and all the social media it does seem nothing is off topic any more so when a chant starts off like that I'm not offended but I was offended by what was said to walking home from the Brit bumping into west ham fans.... The difference FOR ME there is what ever abuse is thrown over the pitch stays at the ground. I don't look for fights, I don't drink, I don't do drugs, I watch my language around young children, I'm not the most educated but I wont give up until I understand and I'm ALWAYS polite so no there's NOTHING wrong with my generation just the odd bad egg like back in the days of pissing in peoples pockets or the naughty 40. I see us all as stoke fans and it makes me proud that for 1 day everyone from the city comes together to cheer 1 for thing and I just don't understand how you can turn on other fans for a difference of opinion? Once again I don't agree with saville but I'm not offended by it eitherYou might want to make that a little clearer.
|
|
|
Post by kustokie on Apr 13, 2015 9:21:35 GMT
I knew I would be insulted but ah well, tbh I just don't really have any opinion on it I just don't think its as bad as its being made out but that was my fault for how it came across and no I don't speak for everyone around my age but in my defense growing up with tv how it is and all the social media it does seem nothing is off topic any more so when a chant starts off like that I'm not offended but I was offended by what was said to walking home from the Brit bumping into west ham fans.... The difference FOR ME there is what ever abuse is thrown over the pitch stays at the ground. I don't look for fights, I don't drink, I don't do drugs, I watch my language around young children, I'm not the most educated but I wont give up until I understand and I'm ALWAYS polite so no there's NOTHING wrong with my generation just the odd bad egg like back in the days of pissing in peoples pockets or the naughty 40. I see us all as stoke fans and it makes me proud that for 1 day everyone from the city comes together to cheer 1 for thing and I just don't understand how you can turn on other fans for a difference of opinion? Once again I don't agree with saville but I'm not offended by it either Apparently, from the length of your post you clearly have a very strong opinion on this subject. BTW you are also a total idiot.
|
|
|
Post by birdaking on Apr 13, 2015 9:39:36 GMT
Nah I'm just rubbish at getting to the point because i always try over explain everything. The sense of humor has changed and I believe chants like that will always exist as long as people still get offended by them there is just a sick sense of humor around lately.
|
|
|
Post by cheekymatt71 on Apr 13, 2015 9:56:19 GMT
I knew I would be insulted but ah well, tbh I just don't really have any opinion on it I just don't think its as bad as its being made out but that was my fault for how it came across and no I don't speak for everyone around my age but in my defense growing up with tv how it is and all the social media it does seem nothing is off topic any more so when a chant starts off like that I'm not offended but I was offended by what was said to walking home from the Brit bumping into west ham fans.... The difference FOR ME there is what ever abuse is thrown over the pitch stays at the ground. I don't look for fights, I don't drink, I don't do drugs, I watch my language around young children, I'm not the most educated but I wont give up until I understand and I'm ALWAYS polite so no there's NOTHING wrong with my generation just the odd bad egg like back in the days of pissing in peoples pockets or the naughty 40. I see us all as stoke fans and it makes me proud that for 1 day everyone from the city comes together to cheer 1 for thing and I just don't understand how you can turn on other fans for a difference of opinion? Once again I don't agree with saville but I'm not offended by it either fair enough for clarifying your original post. Its not about political correctness, its about common decency in the society we live in. Being older doesnt make us any wiser but trying to take young children to a game and hearing some of the bile from so called supporters we sit next to is fairly cringeworthy.
|
|
|
Post by Gods on Apr 13, 2015 10:02:15 GMT
I have no doubt scf that there are many hardworking people who scrimp and save to watch Stoke and are a credit to the club. The fact remains though that at most PL games there is significant police and steward activity both at the game itself and behind the scenes. My question about modern day football would be why a sporting event requires this sort of security if we are simply talking about a tiny minority of people who are just engaged in banter. I think we all know that if you removed the majority of the police and stewards you would risk serious disorder and violence and we should stop and ask ourselves why on earth that should be the case. That is a great question and perhaps a topic for another thread but it is something I have pondered over a lot. I sometimes think the whole match day pantomime may be universally self serving. Fans who don't really want to punch one another get to jump up and down behind lines of stewards with their camera phones on and have something to talk about later manhood in tact without actually risking getting hurt, jobs for stewards, police overtime, the media get to write about it, 'sensible folk' get to be outraged and so it goes on. Take much of the 'security' away and trust people and you may just be pleasantly surprised. They did an experiment where they took all the traffic lights and roundabouts away in a town somewhere, I don't remember where, and the anticipated ensuing chaos never occurred, everyone just behaved respectfully and it all flowed better as a result. I may be wrong of course, I usually am, in which case put it all back, but give it a go
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2015 10:10:09 GMT
I have no doubt scf that there are many hardworking people who scrimp and save to watch Stoke and are a credit to the club. The fact remains though that at most PL games there is significant police and steward activity both at the game itself and behind the scenes. My question about modern day football would be why a sporting event requires this sort of security if we are simply talking about a tiny minority of people who are just engaged in banter. I think we all know that if you removed the majority of the police and stewards you would risk serious disorder and violence and we should stop and ask ourselves why on earth that should be the case. That is a great question and perhaps a topic for another thread but it is something I have pondered over a lot. I sometimes think the whole match day pantomime may be universally self serving. Fans who don't really want to punch one another get to jump up and down behind lines of stewards with their camera phones on and have something to talk about later manhood in tact without actually risking getting hurt, jobs for stewards, police overtime, the media get to write about it, 'sensible folk' get to be outraged and so it goes on. Take much of the 'security' away and trust people and you may just be pleasantly surprised. They did an experiment where they took all the traffic lights and roundabouts away in a town somewhere, I don't remember where, and the ensuing anticipated chaos never occurred, everyone just behaved respectfully and it all flowed better as a result. I may be wrong of course, I usually am, in which case put it all back, but give it a go You're probably right in general, but at a football ground without security, as at busy junctions without lights or a roundabout, you have to remember that well worn phrase "It only takes one idiot!"
|
|
|
Post by penkvillepotter on Apr 13, 2015 10:19:50 GMT
As a 25 year old born and bred stoke fan I have to say that it is nothing more than banter. Its a different generation now and that is our sense of humor. Try single me out but even the amount of abuse we give each other as friends alone is more offensive that what's being cried over here. I didn't start the songs but I LOVED the west ham reaction. Seriously avoid a warehouse job in stoke if you were offended at the game Hold on a minute. Try working on a Pot Bank, you may have studied them in History. You needed to be on your game then. For context I'm 57 next month. I went on Saturday with 3 mates ranging from early (ish) 50's to 68. None of us act our age, we all had our share of ale on but where you lot go, we go elsewhere to avoid you. Listen, there is nothing in the world that's new and don't think for one minute you invented 'banter' If piss taking was an Olympic sport we'd win the realy event. The difference is we keep it in house, that way no one else gets offended. Going for a piss at half time at an away game is nightmare. If lung cancer doesn't get me, then I may drown in ale. I don't need that shit at my age or any age come to that. The sad thing is there are blokes involved who really ought to know better. Seeing and hearing some of the stuff on the train home is just bang out of order but dont' moan at me for not stepping in. I'm not getting a thump for watching my football team. What you call Banter is about as funny as Jimmy Tarbuck, look him up.
|
|
|
Post by stokemark on Apr 13, 2015 10:28:29 GMT
Funnily enough in 'my day' (mid 80's - Im 47) if you had sung that to the West Ham fans you would have got your head kicked in after the match.
Those days werent better and thank god they are behind us. It equally doesnt mean that you can behave like an utter moron without anyone getting offended. Its OUR game, not yours and Im getting sick of those who seem to think they can do whatever they like just because they are at a football match.
|
|
|
Post by geoff321 on Apr 13, 2015 11:06:09 GMT
It's an interesting point you make Gods and exactly what would happen if you reduced security would be I suppose interesting. I was taken to task earlier because I had hinted that hooliganism and poverty or low income might be connected, but one of my questions is who are the people at football matches who are causing trouble and if you could ban them could we then see a massive reduction in security. Those people who say trouble at games years ago was worse could be right but that was largely because police were inexperienced and ill equipped in dealing with the problems.
Coming back to the issue of what sort of fans cause trouble, I guess for instance if you had 26,000 people at the Brit and they were all women the level of trouble would be negligible.
|
|
|
Post by Davef on Apr 13, 2015 11:14:02 GMT
As a 25 year old born and bred stoke fan I have to say that it is nothing more than banter. Its a different generation now and that is our sense of humor. Try single me out but even the amount of abuse we give each other as friends alone is more offensive that what's being cried over here. I didn't start the songs but I LOVED the west ham reaction. Seriously avoid a warehouse job in stoke if you were offended at the game I was 25 when Bobby Moore died and just about remember him playing for Fulham in the 1975 FA Cup Final. I was at Leyton Orient on the day that an impeccably observed minute's silence (not a minute's applause) was held for Bobby. I doubt anyone in the crowd that day would think there would come a time when he would be subjected to such a disgusting chant. And don't think you speak for your generation. We had a couple of lads in their mid-20's with us on Saturday and they wouldn't dream of joining in with such "banter".
|
|
|
Post by JoeinOz on Apr 13, 2015 12:11:20 GMT
As a 25 year old born and bred stoke fan I have to say that it is nothing more than banter. Its a different generation now and that is our sense of humor. Try single me out but even the amount of abuse we give each other as friends alone is more offensive that what's being cried over here. I didn't start the songs but I LOVED the west ham reaction. Seriously avoid a warehouse job in stoke if you were offended at the game It was despicable and and anyone who reflects on it and considers those who chanted this crap to be a braindead moron is excused. Age is no excuse either.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2015 12:17:42 GMT
As a 25 year old born and bred stoke fan I have to say that it is nothing more than banter. Its a different generation now and that is our sense of humor. Try single me out but even the amount of abuse we give each other as friends alone is more offensive that what's being cried over here. I didn't start the songs but I LOVED the west ham reaction. Seriously avoid a warehouse job in stoke if you were offended at the game but how many little kids work at warehouses in Stoke exactly?? i have nothing against "Banter" but everything has a time and a place where it's acceptable and i'm pretty sure that most of the older workers you work with wouldn't say half the stuff they do on the floor in front of little kids. you and your mates have "Banter" with each other because you all know each other and are aware that that's all it is, a joke, a laugh and nothing more.to liken that to this kind of situation where there are tens of thousands of people present who don't know each other (or their particular sense of humours) from Adam (or, for some on here, Adams )is ludicrous. THAT'S the difference really...banter is banter ONLY (and i can't stress this enough) when it's accepted as such between all parties and all parties are happy enough to go along with it....Banter is something that everyone accepts, not just a carte blanche to enable 1 person to say whatever they want to whoever they want and just say "Hashtag classic Bants mate" afterwards so they can get away with it as if it gives them some kind of immunity. as soon as 1 party takes offence then it's no longer banter at all, it's simply abuse and this kind of abuse is wholly unacceptable when there are plenty of children around. the "Younger" generation may do well to learn that! you (like everyone else) have an obligation to the rest of society around you and in your immediate vicinity to respect those people and take into account how offensive your actions may be...it's not hard to do at all, all it calls for is a tiny modicum of common sense and respect for your fellow man, something which in this day and age seems to be fast disappearing!
|
|
|
Post by Vestan Pance on Apr 13, 2015 12:24:57 GMT
I think the point has been made clear enough. Not that it will stop me.
For those in their 20's, you might not really know who Bobby Moore was, or his standing in the game. Fair enough, but there's plenty on here and in the Britannia on a Saturday that do, and they have every right to be offended.
It's not banter, any more than lobbing a fucking banana at a Black player is banter. It's too easy now to remove any kind of personal responsibility under the auspices of humour. Bollocks. Moore transcended West Ham United and is fondly, very fondly remembered as a bastion of how an Englishman could play the game of football. What happened to him in his last years was a disgrace, and I know that Moore's treatment at West Ham in his final years is a source of great shame to many West Ham fans, fans who were oblivious how one of it's greatest sons were being treated.
Absolutely fucking disgraceful.
|
|