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Post by Sergeant Muttley on Apr 1, 2015 9:19:24 GMT
Has now risen to £172.9 million,how the hell can a club continue losing money like that?
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Apr 1, 2015 9:23:27 GMT
Dunner werrit, Bolton council will follow S-o-T council's example and bale out their club on the grounds it brings in 3sh 6d into the local economy every match day?!
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Post by chiefdelilah on Apr 1, 2015 9:32:25 GMT
Has now risen to £172.9 million,how the hell can a club continue losing money like that? Owen Coyle's shorts budget. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 1, 2015 9:38:56 GMT
The same way we'd be about 100m in debt if Coates hadn't written it off I think.....
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Apr 1, 2015 9:40:52 GMT
I presume most of it is director's loans? If it isn't they'll be in liquidation soon. Even if it is director's loans, how are they managing to stay on the right side of the FFP rules. Anyone know how the Football League FFP rules are worded? They must be making huge losses compared to their income to need regular loans of that size.
As an example of what that sort of debt means to a Championship club - our debt at the time the Coates family bought the club back from the Icelanders was (from memory) about £10 million ish. OK, we only owned half our stadium and Bolton may own 100% of a smaller (but finished) stadium. But, their income will be no higher than ours was at the time the Coates family bought the club - yet their debts are around 17 times bigger - madness!
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Post by harryburrows on Apr 1, 2015 9:44:23 GMT
Bolton were lumbered with a huge payroll problem when they went down , something that would hurt us as well if it happened
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Apr 1, 2015 9:45:21 GMT
The same way we'd be about 100m in debt if Coates hadn't written it off I think..... Not the same at all. Debt isn't a problem if you have the income to service it. Man Utd (still) and Arsenal (when they were paying off their stadium costs) demonstrate that. Even if Bet 365 hadn't written off some of our debt the whole debt would be no more than and probably less than a year's Premier League income. Bolton's debt must be at least 8 (or more) times their Championship income. That's bloody daft. |
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Apr 1, 2015 9:47:30 GMT
Bolton were lumbered with a huge payroll problem when they went down , something that would hurt us as well if it happened Bolton's debt was £87 million at the time we played them in the Cup semi final so it was already huge well before relegation. |
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Post by foster on Apr 1, 2015 9:50:29 GMT
They're fucked. Can't see anyone paying that off nor can I see them even affording the interest.
As for us and Peter's investment. That's what it is, an investment. He has put in pretty much what the club is now worth I expect.
Probably less considering the revenue being in the Prem is now bringing.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 1, 2015 9:51:50 GMT
The same way we'd be about 100m in debt if Coates hadn't written it off I think..... Not the same at all. Debt isn't a problem if you have the income to service it. Man Utd (still) and Arsenal (when they were paying off their stadium costs) demonstrate that. Even if Bet 365 hadn't written off some of our debt the whole debt would be no more than and probably less than a year's Premier League income. Bolton's debt must be at least 8 (or more) times their Championship income. That's bloody daft. It is the same. That's how they made their debt, it's mainly or it started mainly as being need to be owed to their chairman. Obviously when they went down it became more of an issue like it would with us if we went down. |
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Post by harryburrows on Apr 1, 2015 9:56:38 GMT
Bolton were lumbered with a huge payroll problem when they went down , something that would hurt us as well if it happened Bolton's debt was £87 million at the time we played them in the Cup semi final so it was already huge well before relegation. And added £90 mil in 4 years , staggering |
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Post by 2004 on Apr 1, 2015 10:02:00 GMT
Well at least they have Emile Heskey
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Post by maninasuitcase on Apr 1, 2015 10:59:00 GMT
I'd like to think a certain 5-0 drubbing at Wembley contributed to their fall from grace  |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 1, 2015 11:35:43 GMT
They're fucked. Can't see anyone paying that off nor can I see them even affording the interest. As for us and Peter's investment. That's what it is, an investment. He has put in pretty much what the club is now worth I expect. Probably less considering the revenue being in the Prem is now bringing. I wouldn't wish to decry anything that Peter Coates has done for our club during his second spell as owner but I think it is probably pretty fair to say that Peter Coates isn't out of pocket at all in regard to investment v return in owning our club. |
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Post by santy on Apr 1, 2015 13:30:13 GMT
They're fucked. Can't see anyone paying that off nor can I see them even affording the interest. As for us and Peter's investment. That's what it is, an investment. He has put in pretty much what the club is now worth I expect. Probably less considering the revenue being in the Prem is now bringing. I wouldn't wish to decry anything that Peter Coates has done for our club during his second spell as owner but I think it is probably pretty fair to say that Peter Coates isn't out of pocket at all in regard to investment v return in owning our club. I believe the most recent accounts show we now owe something in the region of £50m to the Coates family. We also pay £4m a year in rent for the Stadium and the training grounds to the company that owns the club (Stoke Holdings Ltd) as the club itself no longer owns the stadium or training ground. Edit: Just done a check, it's currently at £57m. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 1, 2015 13:39:48 GMT
I wouldn't wish to decry anything that Peter Coates has done for our club during his second spell as owner but I think it is probably pretty fair to say that Peter Coates isn't out of pocket at all in regard to investment v return in owning our club. I believe the most recent accounts show we now owe something in the region of £50m to the Coates family. We also pay £4m a year in rent for the Stadium and the training grounds to the company that owns the club (Stoke Holdings Ltd) as the club itself no longer owns the stadium or training ground. Edit: Just done a check, it's currently at £57m. Yup And currently it's ok because it's all within the same group. In the future it could be a massive issue. Especially with how irate Scholes got over that idea over the ground to protect it (I can't remember the name of the policy). |
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Post by spitthedog on Apr 1, 2015 13:45:33 GMT
The same way we'd be about 100m in debt if Coates hadn't written it off I think..... Not the same at all. Debt isn't a problem if you have the income to service it. Man Utd (still) and Arsenal (when they were paying off their stadium costs) demonstrate that. Even if Bet 365 hadn't written off some of our debt the whole debt would be no more than and probably less than a year's Premier League income. Bolton's debt must be at least 8 (or more) times their Championship income. That's bloody daft. But if the debt hadn't been written off we might not be in the Premiership and would be struggling to generate income? |
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Post by spitthedog on Apr 1, 2015 13:48:00 GMT
Bolton's debt was £87 million at the time we played them in the Cup semi final so it was already huge well before relegation. And added £90 mil in 4 years , staggering It's all about the Premiership If they had stayed up 90m debt is manageable Going down = Trouble |
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Post by harryburrows on Apr 1, 2015 14:30:59 GMT
And added £90 mil in 4 years , staggering It's all about the Premiership If they had stayed up 90m debt is manageable Going down = Trouble It's still very sad that a club like Bolton are unable or unwilling to control this slide towards insolvency |
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Post by jarvinski on Apr 1, 2015 14:38:47 GMT
What is scfc worth now?
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Apr 1, 2015 14:40:32 GMT
Not the same at all. Debt isn't a problem if you have the income to service it. Man Utd (still) and Arsenal (when they were paying off their stadium costs) demonstrate that. Even if Bet 365 hadn't written off some of our debt the whole debt would be no more than and probably less than a year's Premier League income. Bolton's debt must be at least 8 (or more) times their Championship income. That's bloody daft. But if the debt hadn't been written off we might not be in the Premiership and would be struggling to generate income? But the debt was a) much smaller in relation to income than Bolton's debt and b) about half of it was capitalised = written off. So, in comparative terms, we are much better off than Bolton were when they were in the Prem and infinitely better off than they are now. I THINK it is also true to say that parachute payments are now far higher (in proportion to wages)than they were at the time of Bolton's relegation so that would reduce the adverse impact of relegation on our profit and loss account. Finally, we MAY (like other clubs) have gone down the route WBA pioneered, which is to word our contracts so that a sizeable proportion of players' wages are dependent upon which Division they play in - so relegation automatically triggers a clause lowering the basic wage of the player. All ifs and buts of course and I don't know how we'll ever find out unless/until we got relegated.  |
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Post by Kjones9 on Apr 1, 2015 14:48:08 GMT
I'd like to think a certain 5-0 drubbing at Wembley contributed to their fall from grace More likely us sending them down on the last day of the season. |
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Post by slpmarc on Apr 1, 2015 15:20:07 GMT
Bolton were lumbered with a huge payroll problem when they went down , something that would hurt us as well if it happened Bolton's debt was £87 million at the time we played them in the Cup semi final so it was already huge well before relegation. Big Sam and his agent racked up most of their debt, only buying players that his own agent represented lining both their pockets in the process, something that still continues at west ham |
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Post by upthefud on Apr 1, 2015 15:22:14 GMT
Bolton's debt was £87 million at the time we played them in the Cup semi final so it was already huge well before relegation. Big Sam and his agent racked up most of their debt, only buying players that his own agent represented lining both their pockets in the process, something that still continues at west ham Big Sam did a great job at Bolton. He's been away from that club for roughly 8 years, you can't pin this on him |
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Post by slpmarc on Apr 1, 2015 15:29:34 GMT
Big Sam and his agent racked up most of their debt, only buying players that his own agent represented lining both their pockets in the process, something that still continues at west ham Big Sam did a great job at Bolton. He's been away from that club for roughly 8 years, you can't pin this on him Don't believe it then, but you look at the players big Sam brings into clubs, and look at who represents them. Then look at the clubs big Sam has managed and look at the financial state they are in after his tenure |
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Post by upthefud on Apr 1, 2015 15:41:45 GMT
Big Sam did a great job at Bolton. He's been away from that club for roughly 8 years, you can't pin this on him Don't believe it then, but you look at the players big Sam brings into clubs, and look at who represents them. Then look at the clubs big Sam has managed and look at the financial state they are in after his tenure Redknapp leaves clubs in a mess. Regardless of who Big Sam signs he always leaves clubs in a better state than when he took over. Taking Bolton from the Championship to Europe is/was a fantastic feat and brought a lot of money to the club. |
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Post by Pugsley on Apr 1, 2015 15:45:03 GMT
Don't believe it then, but you look at the players big Sam brings into clubs, and look at who represents them. Then look at the clubs big Sam has managed and look at the financial state they are in after his tenure Redknapp leaves clubs in a mess. Regardless of who Big Sam signs he always leaves clubs in a better state than when he took over. Taking Bolton from the Championship to Europe is/was a fantastic feat and brought a lot of money to the club.
Redknapp - Cockney wide boy, plays good football, wins a trophy - cunt. Allardyce - gruff northerner, wins fuck all, likes to hoof it - great manager.
We get where you're coming from.
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Post by maninasuitcase on Apr 1, 2015 15:45:37 GMT
I'd like to think a certain 5-0 drubbing at Wembley contributed to their fall from grace More likely us sending them down on the last day of the season. That as well mate lol |
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Post by chiefdelilah on Apr 1, 2015 15:53:26 GMT
Sam's famously dodgy isn't he (allegedly)?
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Post by Somebody_Told_Me on Apr 1, 2015 16:11:25 GMT
And their chairman tried to commit the 20 Premier League clubs to no relegation and no promotion. I bet he's changed his tune now.
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