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Post by kinetic on Mar 18, 2015 12:44:00 GMT
So I'll assume you're just as appalled by Europeans & Christians doing the same thing in North & South America?..... I say I assume that as I've never seen you banging on about it, so I was just checking. Medina was 1500 years ago wasn't it? I'm sure we've hopefully been educated and moved on since then. Sadly Islam is not moving forward it's going backwards out with all the open thinking types Sufi, Shia, Ahmadiyya ect. What we have instead is the Sunni sect over run by Deobandi and Salafi lunatics. They want live like in Mohamed's time. You see on the news the terror attacks the world over by "Radical Islam" No it's by followers of Deobandi in the main. The talk in Pakistan now is of closing down Deobandi run madrasas and bringing them under State control. Makes sense all they preach is hate. 70% of suicide bombers Deobandi the rest Salafi. Got giggle though t the same time the Pakistani state is talking of closing down Arab backed Deobandi madrasas, what is that clown Cameron doing ?? Giving the green light for more Deobandi madrasas to be opened in the UK. He calls em free schools though. I mean if the problems in Pakistan down turn your head. How about the Trojan horse investigations into the "free schools" we all ready have ??? Sleepwalking into the abyss Just to remind everyone again Deobandi Islam is the dominant force here in the UK as well Happy days. Bring me a slave.
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 18, 2015 13:08:16 GMT
Really your poster name has changed plus you have at least three other poster names that you regularly communicate with on this board and that does not include ************** who according to you is now in Thailand but you are still living in Stoke how very strange how about changing your username to Mr Benn or Dr Who Carpy, what are you going on about? Chill out a bit. Would you like me to send yo a PM to explain things? You've got your knickers in a rate twist son. Nope ta.
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Post by biddulphchav on Mar 18, 2015 16:15:32 GMT
I'm not sure where this argument is going to be honest.
Surely we can all agree that not all Muslims are evil? Just as we can agree that not all of us are or were responsible for some of the atrocities commited in the name of either our country or Christianity. Tarnishing all 1.5 billion Muslims in the world with the same brush is a very simplistic, and indeed bigoted, way of looking at the World. I'm in agreement though that Islam has some very violent overtures that go back all the way to Muhammed. However, we have to look at things in the context they were written in. It was certainly a very different time and those that choose to take the words of the Quran are clearly deranged people and they deserve to fall on the wrong side of the law for the acts they commit as a result of this type of interpretation.
Now that I've calmed down a bit all I really wanted to point out is that the vast majority of people (non-muslim and muslim alike) are civilised - we have to treat Islamism in accordance with our own laws. We cannot just condemn the whole religion and we cannot contravene our own laws and 'send them all back to where they came from'. I would hope that most civilised and educated people would see this is the way to deal with them and that we should try and intergrate the rest of the moderate normal people into our society. That's the only way we'll change anything in the long-term. Lowering our own standards is not the way to handle it and paradoxically, is exactly what many of these former moderates have done when converting to extremism in the face of perceived injustice etc. I make no excuses for them in that sense though, and I'm firmly of the opinion that any British citizen that takes up arms against fellow Britians (as in ISIS) should be tried for treason - as per the law.
There is definitely a racist element on this board which does get my back up a bit. All the talk of impending doom and 'descending into the abyss' is nonsense. What we should do is to take the moral high ground and show these people how a decent, civilised society handles such problems. Sadly, people like kinetic and mumf clearly demonstrate a total lack of understanding or ability to empathise with those who view the solution to this problem in a different way. I doubt either of those two have ever considering taking the moral high ground or sticking to their principles in any aspects of their lives so I'm suppose we shouldn't be suprised by their views. Fortunately the vast majority of people in this country are far more fair minded and educated than them and thus we are in many ways standard bearers in the western world for the things I've talked about above.
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Post by kinetic on Mar 18, 2015 16:45:37 GMT
I'm not sure where this argument is going to be honest. Surely we can all agree that not all Muslims are evil? Just as we can agree that not all of us are or were responsible for some of the atrocities commited in the name of either our country or Christianity. Tarnishing all 1.5 billion Muslims in the world with the same brush is a very simplistic, and indeed bigoted, way of looking at the World. I'm in agreement though that Islam has some very violent overtures that go back all the way to Muhammed. However, we have to look at things in the context they were written in. It was certainly a very different time and those that choose to take the words of the Quran are clearly deranged people and they deserve to fall on the wrong side of the law for the acts they commit as a result of this type of interpretation. Now that I've calmed down a bit all I really wanted to point out is that the vast majority of people (non-muslim and muslim alike) are civilised - we have to treat Islamism in accordance with our own laws. We cannot just condemn the whole religion and we cannot contravene our own laws and 'send them all back to where they came from'. I would hope that most civilised and educated people would see this is the way to deal with them and that we should try and intergrate the rest of the moderate normal people into our society. That's the only way we'll change anything in the long-term. Lowering our own standards is not the way to handle it and paradoxically, is exactly what many of these former moderates have done when converting to extremism in the face of perceived injustice etc. I make no excuses for them in that sense though, and I'm firmly of the opinion that any British citizen that takes up arms against fellow Britians (as in ISIS) should be tried for treason - as per the law. There is definitely a racist element on this board which does get my back up a bit. All the talk of impending doom and 'descending into the abyss' is nonsense. What we should do is to take the moral high ground and show these people how a decent, civilised society handles such problems. Sadly, people like kinetic and mumf clearly demonstrate a total lack of understanding or ability to empathise with those who view the solution to this problem in a different way. I doubt either of those two have ever considering taking the moral high ground or sticking to their principles in any aspects of their lives so I'm suppose we shouldn't be suprised by their views. Fortunately the vast majority of people in this country are far more fair minded and educated than them and thus we are in many ways standard bearers in the western world for the things I've talked about above. What's so hard to get in your head that Deobandi runs British Islam ? Come on you claim to be educated. your thick as fuck shout racist. We need to integrate the moderates haha more BS. Moderates do integrate. We don't need to do anything with moderate strands of Islam. You have google now go and learn at Deobandi. You got that Deobandi one last time Deobandi now run along clueless.
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Post by biddulphchav on Mar 18, 2015 17:00:19 GMT
Haha you truly are an idiot.
I would love to see you on a live debate. You would be shown up for the fool that you are.
Your quick google research sessions yield a new buzz word for you on an almost daily basis that you then latch onto and repeat constantly - above is a great example.
Many of the extremists we are discussing have come from moderate families, haven't they? So, they've started off as moderates and then converted or radicalised. Surely we have some small role that we can play in helping to prevent this? Or maybe we should just post links on forums that depict sectarian violence (all of it perpetrated by muslims) and use these to lend credence to the new theory we discovered on google last night.
I honestly can't be bothered with you anymore. You can barely read, let alone make any type of reasonable, logical, thought-out argument. You are just another brain washed idiot. I hope you get run over by a bus.
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Post by kinetic on Mar 18, 2015 17:05:54 GMT
Haha you truly are an idiot. I would love to see you on a live debate. You would be shown up for the fool that you are. Your quick google research sessions yield a new buzz word for you on an almost daily basis that you then latch onto and repeat constantly - above is a great example. Many of the extremists we are discussing have come from moderate families, haven't they? So, they've started off as moderates and then converted or radicalised. Surely we have some small role that we can play in helping to prevent this? Or maybe we should just post links on forums that depict sectarian violence (all of it perpetrated by muslims) and use these to lend credence to the new theory we discovered on google last night. I honestly can't be bothered with you anymore. You can barely read, let alone make any type of reasonable, logical, thought-out argument. You are just another brain washed idiot. I hope you get run over by a bus. They come from moderate family's. Yeah then Deobandi took over the running of British Mosques backed by Arab oil money and all hell broke lose. Now go and Google it Deobandi and stop making yourself look a dick. That is the issue so I will keep repeating it Deobandi. Buzz Word nah being saying it for years look back through my posts brain-dead.
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Post by biddulphchav on Mar 18, 2015 17:24:57 GMT
Praise the Lord! We might be getting somewhere! You've finally admitted that they come from moderate families?!!!!!!!!!
Right, let's walk through this slowly, and step by step. Hopefully by spelling it out to you, you'll be able to follow the logic. Perhaps in the future you can apply similar logic in future arguments (but let's just go slow for now and concentrate on this one).
1.) Many of the British extrmeists come from moderate families. 2.) They become radicalised at some point - usually in early adulthood. 3.) The reasons for the radicalisation are a combination of perceived injustices against Muslims by the west, and a literal intrepreation of the Quran that's 'taught' to them by other extremists.
If you agree on the above then surely we can agree also the rest of society (as in, people like you and I) can help prevent this radicalisation by intergrating with these people - or at the very least not writing their religion off as evil and therefore they as followers, also evil? Or by not posting one-sided BS on the internet that highlights violence that muslims have been involved in while totally ignorning violent acts committed by other religious groups or dismissing as irrelevant things like the Catholic church's horrendous record of paedophilia?
Do you agree with the above?
For what it is worth I agree with some of your sentiments. Islam does have a violent doctrine. We do have a disproportionate number of extremist youths in this country. I also agree that those who take up arms in this 'jihad' (incidentally I think this is a political war that the leaders of ISIS are proclaiming to be a jihad to attract followers, but that's another matter entirely), should be tried for treason.
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Post by kinetic on Mar 18, 2015 17:56:34 GMT
Praise the Lord! We might be getting somewhere! You've finally admitted that they come from moderate families?!!!!!!!!! Right, let's walk through this slowly, and step by step. Hopefully by spelling it out to you, you'll be able to follow the logic. Perhaps in the future you can apply similar logic in future arguments (but let's just go slow for now and concentrate on this one). 1.) Many of the British extrmeists come from moderate families. 2.) They become radicalised at some point - usually in early adulthood. 3.) The reasons for the radicalisation are a combination of perceived injustices against Muslims by the west, and a literal intrepreation of the Quran that's 'taught' to them by other extremists. If you agree on the above then surely we can agree also the rest of society (as in, people like you and I) can help prevent this radicalisation by intergrating with these people - or at the very least not writing their religion off as evil and therefore they as followers, also evil? Or by not posting one-sided BS on the internet that highlights violence that muslims have been involved in while totally ignorning violent acts committed by other religious groups or dismissing as irrelevant things like the Catholic church's horrendous record of paedophilia? Do you agree with the above? For what it is worth I agree with some of your sentiments. Islam does have a violent doctrine. We do have a disproportionate number of extremist youths in this country. I also agree that those who take up arms in this 'jihad' (incidentally I think this is a political war that the leaders of ISIS are proclaiming to be a jihad to attract followers, but that's another matter entirely), should be tried for treason. Islam is to blame though. The Deobandi teachings are not questioned I don't know why. Its very simple what we need I have said many a time on here a British Islam with British trained Imams. Instead every Sunni Imam that is working in a Mosque has been trained at the Darul Uloom University aka Deobandi even the Sufi ones. The Sufi's are the moderates who come over in the 50s and 60s btw !! Now get trained by 6th century nutters.
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Post by biddulphchav on Mar 18, 2015 19:08:29 GMT
Those teachings should be questioned. I don't think anybody can argue that and I'm not going to try and justify them. I disagree with the radical versions of Islam (and any religion) as much as anyone.
I would question the statistics though, and I'm not so sure that the muslim community in this country is as radicalised as you think.
I'm not so naive to think that there is no problem. Where we differ is on the solution. I believe intergration and time are the answer. Hand in hand with that is religous tolerance. In my opinion, demonising the faith and it's followers is counter-productive.
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 18, 2015 22:17:44 GMT
Those teachings should be questioned. I don't think anybody can argue that and I'm not going to try and justify them. I disagree with the radical versions of Islam (and any religion) as much as anyone. I would question the statistics though, and I'm not so sure that the muslim community in this country is as radicalised as you think. I'm not so naive to think that there is no problem. Where we differ is on the solution. I believe intergration and time are the answer. Hand in hand with that is religous tolerance. In my opinion, demonising the faith and it's followers is counter-productive. ************** Mk 4 liking his own posts you need to get a life, a real life not one based on fantasy Mr Benn
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 22:30:07 GMT
Those teachings should be questioned. I don't think anybody can argue that and I'm not going to try and justify them. I disagree with the radical versions of Islam (and any religion) as much as anyone. I would question the statistics though, and I'm not so sure that the muslim community in this country is as radicalised as you think. I'm not so naive to think that there is no problem. Where we differ is on the solution. I believe intergration and time are the answer. Hand in hand with that is religous tolerance. In my opinion, demonising the faith and it's followers is counter-productive. ************** Mk 4 liking his own posts you need to get a life, a real life not one based on fantasy Mr Benn Ha ha ha .... Is there a shrink available ...we have an emergency .!
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Post by ************** on Mar 18, 2015 22:30:52 GMT
Those teachings should be questioned. I don't think anybody can argue that and I'm not going to try and justify them. I disagree with the radical versions of Islam (and any religion) as much as anyone. I would question the statistics though, and I'm not so sure that the muslim community in this country is as radicalised as you think. I'm not so naive to think that there is no problem. Where we differ is on the solution. I believe intergration and time are the answer. Hand in hand with that is religous tolerance. In my opinion, demonising the faith and it's followers is counter-productive. ************** Mk 4 liking his own posts you need to get a life, a real life not one based on fantasy Mr Benn So...i've just liked your last quote. Does that make me you as well?
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Post by ************** on Mar 18, 2015 22:36:58 GMT
************** Mk 4 liking his own posts you need to get a life, a real life not one based on fantasy Mr Benn Ha ha ha .... Is there a shrink available ... we have an emergency .! Finally, a cry for help and the final proof that Mumf indeed suffers with some form of multiple personality disorder. Or is this the "royal" we?
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 18, 2015 22:40:47 GMT
************** Mk 4 liking his own posts you need to get a life, a real life not one based on fantasy Mr Benn Ha ha ha .... Is there a shrink available ...we have an emergency .! If there is he better have a tardis or know where that shop is that ************** x4(Mr Benn) frequents on a daily basis if he has any hope of sorting this out. ting tong, sorry ding dong
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 22:44:03 GMT
Mr Benn....! ha ha ha.....Brilliant .
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 18, 2015 23:00:43 GMT
Mr Benn....! ha ha ha.....Brilliant . Attachment Deleted
************** stops off on the way to Thailand this afternoon, before returning to Hartshill later this evening
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 23:02:17 GMT
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 18, 2015 23:27:47 GMT
..........via BIddulph with his S.O.N.S........ I think one is a 'Chav' ....No surprise there .... Hope he did not miss Drayton Dave in the rush to meet his deadline for lockdown, they are very strict at Harplands these days I believe, by the way bagged two of those nasty grey bastards today baited them with some under aged nuts, they just can not resist them must be in their genes fecking animals.
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Post by kinetic on Mar 26, 2015 11:38:12 GMT
Poor fella. Anyway some eagle eyed viewer has been watching youtube vids of Islamists marching in London. Guess whos up front. The lying cunt. Nothing but a radical himself. Bet they were groomed on the internet though hey 4min 50sec Sad Sad man lock him up.
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 26, 2015 12:32:41 GMT
Poor fella. Anyway some eagle eyed viewer has been watching youtube vids of Islamists marching in London. Guess whos up front. The lying cunt. Nothing but a radical himself. Bet they were groomed on the internet though hey 4min 50sec Sad Sad man lock him up. Wonder how many on that vid were arrested for public order offences at the very least, as for the father I think your assessment is pretty much bang on, of course it was the fault of the authorities 8-|who have apologised what a joke.
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Post by kinetic on Mar 26, 2015 13:42:00 GMT
Poor fella. Anyway some eagle eyed viewer has been watching youtube vids of Islamists marching in London. Guess whos up front. The lying cunt. Nothing but a radical himself. Bet they were groomed on the internet though hey 4min 50sec Sad Sad man lock him up. Wonder how many on that vid were arrested for public order offences at the very least, as for the father I think your assessment is pretty much bang on, of course it was the fault of the authorities 8-|who have apologised what a joke. Well obviously its going to be the fault of the British police for allowing him to attend one of Anjem Choudrys rally's of hate. Have a listen to what he is shouting in the video "Jihad,Jihad,Jihad" Whats his daughter doing again.
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Post by kinetic on Mar 26, 2015 17:33:49 GMT
(rofl)Lies lies lies I tell thee.
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Post by boothenboy75 on Mar 26, 2015 19:54:49 GMT
This knob head has the nerve to blame the police, the government, the security services and you, but when you have people like John Prescott fueling this bullshit, it's only going to get worse. Remember vote Labour. www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/john-prescott-wasnt-just-jihadi-5379157How the fat twat has the nerve to blame us for radicalising young muslims following the Afghanistan & Iraqi conflicts, when he was the deputy PM for the government at the time, shows what a prick he is. He's clearly decided Tony's crusades were nowt to do with him and seems to be taking his inspiration from Galloway these days. Anyone who thinks Labour have disowned the fool, need to remember that Miliband has just appointed him as his special advisor on climate change! You couldn't make it up.
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 26, 2015 20:05:27 GMT
This knob head has the nerve to blame the police, the government, the security services and you, but when you have people like John Prescott fueling this bullshit, it's only going to get worse. Remember vote Labour. www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/john-prescott-wasnt-just-jihadi-5379157How the fat twat has the nerve to blame us for radicalising young muslims following the Afghanistan & Iraqi conflicts, when he was the deputy PM for the government at the time, shows what a prick he is. He's clearly decided Tony's crusades were nowt to do with him and seems to be taking his inspiration from Galloway these days. Anyone who thinks Labour have disowned the fool, need to remember that Miliband has just appointed him as his special advisor on climate change! You couldn't make it up. Three Jags is back, as you say a prominent figure in the Labour government who instigated the second Iraq conflict, he is nothing but an obese lying hypocrite as for that pious bastard Galloway he should be locked up for incitement to racial hatred for his stance on Jews in Bradford, Muslim turncoat would be incarcerated in any other country vile creature.
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Post by kinetic on Mar 27, 2015 9:56:58 GMT
Anyone who thinks Labour have disowned the fool, need to remember that Miliband has just appointed him as his special advisor on climate change! You couldn't make it up. (lol)As Carps says back down to 2 Jags instead of 3 then.
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Post by kinetic on Mar 27, 2015 9:58:17 GMT
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Post by harryburrows on Mar 28, 2015 12:41:51 GMT
It appears that one of the girls fathers who blamed the police for allowing them to leave the country is a pretty radical Muslim , photographed during a mass demo outside the U.S. embassy chanting death to America and burning the Stars and Stripes
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 28, 2015 13:59:48 GMT
It appears that one of the girls fathers who blamed the police for allowing them to leave the country is a pretty radical Muslim , photographed during a mass demo outside the U.S. embassy chanting death to America and burning the Stars and Stripes And the police apologised to the parents, you could not make it up really what a joke we have become.
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Post by boothenboy75 on Apr 2, 2015 18:08:25 GMT
1 of the 9 who were arrested in Turkey yesterday has been revealed as the son of a Labour councillor from Rochdale. The councillor thought his son was doing work experience in Birmingham! He has said he wants his son home as soon as possible to find out whats been going on. :)
Wouldn't it just be easier to let these wannabe Jiahdi's go to Syria? I'm sure it'd make them happier.
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Post by kinetic on Apr 2, 2015 19:38:01 GMT
1 of the 9 who were arrested in Turkey yesterday has been revealed as the son of a Labour councillor from Rochdale. The councillor thought his son was doing work experience in Birmingham! He has said he wants his son home as soon as possible to find out whats been going on. Wouldn't it just be easier to let these wannabe Jiahdi's go to Syria? I'm sure it'd make them happier. Stick it in here as well. oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/240307/rotherham-reportRochdale not much bigger than Burslem ?? Fucked.
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