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Post by foster on Mar 5, 2015 12:24:38 GMT
5th obviously. I'm not saying I don't want Stoke to finish as high as possible, of course I do. I'm just saying I wish we didn't have to do the Europa next season. The season after, for sure, Hughes will have improved our squad depth, got rid of shithouses like Maurice Edu and Wilson Palcios, and we'll have a team of 25 where Mark is willing to call on all of them. Right now, that isn't the case and I worry it would negatively impact our league form. Well 5th place comes with the Europa league so HA, your argument is invalid!!
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Post by metalhead on Mar 5, 2015 12:26:26 GMT
5th obviously. I'm not saying I don't want Stoke to finish as high as possible, of course I do. I'm just saying I wish we didn't have to do the Europa next season. The season after, for sure, Hughes will have improved our squad depth, got rid of shithouses like Maurice Edu and Wilson Palcios, and we'll have a team of 25 where Mark is willing to call on all of them. Right now, that isn't the case and I worry it would negatively impact our league form. Well 5th place comes with the Europa league so HA, your argument is invalid!! You know what I'm saying though. My argument isn't invalid, it's just not possible.
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Post by greenstokie on Mar 5, 2015 12:27:08 GMT
Another Europa league campaign would be brilliant. To achieve it from a league position, even better. I can't understand why any Stoke supporter wouldn't want to be at this level. As Spurs already have a Europa spot, our best chance is to overhaul Southampton which is in itself still a big ask, but not impossible.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2015 12:43:00 GMT
5th obviously. I'm not saying I don't want Stoke to finish as high as possible, of course I do. I'm just saying I wish we didn't have to do the Europa next season. The season after, for sure, Hughes will have improved our squad depth, got rid of shithouses like Maurice Edu and Wilson Palcios, and we'll have a team of 25 where Mark is willing to call on all of them. Right now, that isn't the case and I worry it would negatively impact our league form. but i think the point people are making is that we wouldn't be going into it NEXT season with the squad we have right now would we? Palacios and Edu will be going THIS summer so i'm pretty sure that Hughes won't be waiting for another year to replace their squad places. bizarre to base what you want out of NEXT season on what the squad THIS season is really mate. do you genuinely think that if we qualified then Coates wouldn't sanction extra incoming players this summer to be able to deal with it? if you're saying that we should wait until the season after then it's quite likely that players like Bojan (if he plays the way he did before he got injured) also wouldn't be with us anymore anyway, IF we managed to permanently sign Moses and he performs as well next season he could be gone by then as well etc. etc....i really don't get the point you're making to be honest. the idea that if we go out of the League Cup and the FA cup then we should just sit around and only aim for mid-table safety is daft, not to mention the complete lack of ambition that will cause players to move on (we've already had existing players mention how their ultimate aim is to play at higher levels and that means European competition) and how is it a death sentence? we've managed ok so far with all of our injuries and the squad depth, yes we've been "Found out" against 2 of the top 4 in the Prem but not many of the Europa teams we'd face are of that standard anyway. stats published only a week or so ago show that the average drop in league position for teams competing in the Europa league is only around 3.5 places and i'd take that happily for another season in europe. to use Everton as an example and say their problems this season have been caused by being in the europa league just isn't true, it's just one of those lazy excuses that their fans come up with. they had injuries at the start of the season (Coleman, Barkley, Stones, Baines etc.) that meant they never got up to speed and since then the way they've defended and spent far longer moving the ball up the pitch (which encourages pressure on their defence) in general and the way they set up is completely different to last year and that's been the main cause of their problems. they had a 3 month break from the Europa and have been just as shit without having that as a distraction. really really don't see your point at all basically
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Post by metalhead on Mar 5, 2015 12:49:34 GMT
5th obviously. I'm not saying I don't want Stoke to finish as high as possible, of course I do. I'm just saying I wish we didn't have to do the Europa next season. The season after, for sure, Hughes will have improved our squad depth, got rid of shithouses like Maurice Edu and Wilson Palcios, and we'll have a team of 25 where Mark is willing to call on all of them. Right now, that isn't the case and I worry it would negatively impact our league form. but i think the point people are making is that we wouldn't be going into it NEXT season with the squad we have right now would we? Palacios and Edu will be going THIS summer so i'm pretty sure that Hughes won't be waiting for another year to replace their squad places. bizarre to base what you want out of NEXT season on what the squad THIS season is really mate. do you genuinely think that if we qualified then Coates wouldn't sanction extra incoming players this summer to be able to deal with it? if you're saying that we should wait until the season after then it's quite likely that players like Bojan (if he plays the way he did before he got injured) also wouldn't be with us anymore anyway, IF we managed to permanently sign Moses and he performs as well next season he could be gone by then as well etc. etc....i really don't get the point you're making to be honest. the idea that if we go out of the League Cup and the FA cup then we should just sit around and only aim for mid-table safety is daft, not to mention the complete lack of ambition that will cause players to move on (we've already had existing players mention how their ultimate aim is to play at higher levels and that means European competition) and how is it a death sentence? we've managed ok so far with all of our injuries and the squad depth, yes we've been "Found out" against 2 of the top 4 in the Prem but not many of the Europa teams we'd face are of that standard anyway. stats published only a week or so ago show that the average drop in league position for teams competing in the Europa league is only around 3.5 places and i'd take that happily for another season in europe. to use Everton as an example and say their problems this season have been caused by being in the europa league just isn't true, it's just one of those lazy excuses that their fans come up with. they had injuries at the start of the season (Coleman, Barkley, Stones, Baines etc.) that meant they never got up to speed and since then the way they've defended and spent far longer moving the ball up the pitch (which encourages pressure on their defence) in general and the way they set up is completely different to last year and that's been the main cause of their problems. they had a 3 month break from the Europa and have been just as shit without having that as a distraction. really really don't see your point at all basically Mick, I love Peter, but he's not throwing money at it anymore. I hope I'm wrong, and you're right. I really hope this season, players like Palacios make way and he gives Hughes say a good 20-30 million where he can go and find 4 or 5 good players. If he does, then I take it all back and would love a Europa challenge. Who wouldn't? I just aren't as confident as you about Coates coming good on the money thing, not until other players have departed. We'll see anyway.
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Mar 5, 2015 12:56:56 GMT
IF we had all players fit this is the second string side we could put together now without any new summer signings
Butland
Cameron Wilson Teixeira Muniesa
Sidwell Adam
Arnautovic Ireland Odemwingie
Crouch
Now that is not going to win the Europa League but should get us out of the group stage, and add in first-teamers as we progress further through. Pulis managed to do the same with using a 2nd team at times in Europa League so it can be a great chance to give fringe players games. I think it would mean players like Adam & Ireland stay because they could be guaranteed more game time even with Bojan the first-choice
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Post by mosquito on Mar 5, 2015 13:05:13 GMT
I would love another European adventure! Hopefully, it would mean investment into strengthening the squad and we would look a better proposition to a better calibre of player. Playing for a Prem club who finished 7th with Europa football next season, or playing for a team that finished say 10th I can't see it happening, but here's hoping
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2015 13:30:19 GMT
but i think the point people are making is that we wouldn't be going into it NEXT season with the squad we have right now would we? Palacios and Edu will be going THIS summer so i'm pretty sure that Hughes won't be waiting for another year to replace their squad places. bizarre to base what you want out of NEXT season on what the squad THIS season is really mate. do you genuinely think that if we qualified then Coates wouldn't sanction extra incoming players this summer to be able to deal with it? if you're saying that we should wait until the season after then it's quite likely that players like Bojan (if he plays the way he did before he got injured) also wouldn't be with us anymore anyway, IF we managed to permanently sign Moses and he performs as well next season he could be gone by then as well etc. etc....i really don't get the point you're making to be honest. the idea that if we go out of the League Cup and the FA cup then we should just sit around and only aim for mid-table safety is daft, not to mention the complete lack of ambition that will cause players to move on (we've already had existing players mention how their ultimate aim is to play at higher levels and that means European competition) and how is it a death sentence? we've managed ok so far with all of our injuries and the squad depth, yes we've been "Found out" against 2 of the top 4 in the Prem but not many of the Europa teams we'd face are of that standard anyway. stats published only a week or so ago show that the average drop in league position for teams competing in the Europa league is only around 3.5 places and i'd take that happily for another season in europe. to use Everton as an example and say their problems this season have been caused by being in the europa league just isn't true, it's just one of those lazy excuses that their fans come up with. they had injuries at the start of the season (Coleman, Barkley, Stones, Baines etc.) that meant they never got up to speed and since then the way they've defended and spent far longer moving the ball up the pitch (which encourages pressure on their defence) in general and the way they set up is completely different to last year and that's been the main cause of their problems. they had a 3 month break from the Europa and have been just as shit without having that as a distraction. really really don't see your point at all basically Mick, I love Peter, but he's not throwing money at it anymore. I hope I'm wrong, and you're right. I really hope this season, players like Palacios make way and he gives Hughes say a good 20-30 million where he can go and find 4 or 5 good players. If he does, then I take it all back and would love a Europa challenge. Who wouldn't? I just aren't as confident as you about Coates coming good on the money thing, not until other players have departed. We'll see anyway. but that's my point... the deadwood you're mentioning will be going THIS summer (unless Hughes wants to extend their contracts which i'm pretty sure won't happen). Coates hasn't thrown money around the last couple of years you're right but has he needed to?? in terms of the way we play we're fields ahead of where we were and in terms of league position and points we're way better off too and haven't needed to splash the cash....the "New" transfer policy he wanted (i.e. foreign market, younger players with resale value) is working just fine and dandy at the moment because we have a manager in that knows how to implement and manage such a transfer policy and that kind of policy doesn't need tens of millions to be thrown around so again, i don't really see your point. Hughes has already proved 100% that throwing around tens of millions just isn't necessary. if we qualified for Europa and Hughes asked Coates for a bit of money for players to accommodate those extra commitments,he's not likely to tell Sparky to go fuck himself.
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Post by metalhead on Mar 5, 2015 13:37:15 GMT
Mick, I love Peter, but he's not throwing money at it anymore. I hope I'm wrong, and you're right. I really hope this season, players like Palacios make way and he gives Hughes say a good 20-30 million where he can go and find 4 or 5 good players. If he does, then I take it all back and would love a Europa challenge. Who wouldn't? I just aren't as confident as you about Coates coming good on the money thing, not until other players have departed. We'll see anyway. but that's my point... the deadwood you're mentioning will be going THIS summer (unless Hughes wants to extend their contracts which i'm pretty sure won't happen). Coates hasn't thrown money around the last couple of years you're right but has he needed to?? in terms of the way we play we're fields ahead of where we were and in terms of league position and points we're way better off too and haven't needed to splash the cash....the "New" transfer policy he wanted (i.e. foreign market, younger players with resale value) is working just fine and dandy at the moment because we have a manager in that knows how to implement and manage such a transfer policy and that kind of policy doesn't need tens of millions to be thrown around so again, i don't really see your point. Hughes has already proved 100% that throwing around tens of millions just isn't necessary. if we qualified for Europa and Hughes asked Coates for a bit of money for players to accommodate those extra commitments,he's not likely to tell Sparky to go fuck himself. I think the day Palacios goes will be an important day. Mark will really be able to make this squad his own with no lasting legacy from Tony.
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Post by foster on Mar 5, 2015 13:43:23 GMT
5th obviously. I'm not saying I don't want Stoke to finish as high as possible, of course I do. I'm just saying I wish we didn't have to do the Europa next season. The season after, for sure, Hughes will have improved our squad depth, got rid of shithouses like Maurice Edu and Wilson Palcios, and we'll have a team of 25 where Mark is willing to call on all of them. Right now, that isn't the case and I worry it would negatively impact our league form. but i think the point people are making is that we wouldn't be going into it NEXT season with the squad we have right now would we? Palacios and Edu will be going THIS summer so i'm pretty sure that Hughes won't be waiting for another year to replace their squad places. bizarre to base what you want out of NEXT season on what the squad THIS season is really mate.do you genuinely think that if we qualified then Coates wouldn't sanction extra incoming players this summer to be able to deal with it? if you're saying that we should wait until the season after then it's quite likely that players like Bojan (if he plays the way he did before he got injured) also wouldn't be with us anymore anyway, IF we managed to permanently sign Moses and he performs as well next season he could be gone by then as well etc. etc.... i really don't get the point you're making to be honest. the idea that if we go out of the League Cup and the FA cup then we should just sit around and only aim for mid-table safety is daft, not to mention the complete lack of ambition that will cause players to move on (we've already had existing players mention how their ultimate aim is to play at higher levels and that means European competition) and how is it a death sentence? we've managed ok so far with all of our injuries and the squad depth, yes we've been "Found out" against 2 of the top 4 in the Prem but not many of the Europa teams we'd face are of that standard anyway. stats published only a week or so ago show that the average drop in league position for teams competing in the Europa league is only around 3.5 places and i'd take that happily for another season in europe. to use Everton as an example and say their problems this season have been caused by being in the europa league just isn't true, it's just one of those lazy excuses that their fans come up with. they had injuries at the start of the season (Coleman, Barkley, Stones, Baines etc.) that meant they never got up to speed and since then the way they've defended and spent far longer moving the ball up the pitch (which encourages pressure on their defence) in general and the way they set up is completely different to last year and that's been the main cause of their problems. they had a 3 month break from the Europa and have been just as shit without having that as a distraction. really really don't see your point at all basicallyMetalhead, I don't think Mick really knows what you mean.
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Post by cousindupree on Mar 5, 2015 13:43:52 GMT
I continue to be baffled at the lets not bother with Europa brigade. I really don't understand it. If all we had was deja vue of the Prem week in week out playing the same teams and the only prize being a relatively meaningless mid table position my interest might be difficult to maintain. I love the cup competitions and the European adventure we had eclipses any win in the Prem in my view. It cost me a fortune to follow the guys but money well spent. Ask the players what they think? I am sure you will get 100% positive about playing in Europe. Bego has already said it raises our profile. I can understand teams who are pushing for champs league spots don't want to be distracted as the riches on offer in the Champs league are huge but for a club like us....surely its about winning a trophy and playing on the European stage...isn't it?
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Post by lordb on Mar 5, 2015 13:46:54 GMT
Why is it only in England that the Europa League is seen as a second rate competition?
Can only speak for myself but I loved the "meaningless group games" last time & not just because of the novelty value either. I thought that the Europa League games we're of a higher quality/more fun overall than most Premier League games. The away followings at The Brit were (Valencia fans excepted as they didn't turn up) we're great. Is there a risk we could have a downturn on our Premier Legaue results,yes there is. I think that risk is overstated myself. So to summerise I am in favour of experiencing higher quality/more fun games.
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Post by redstriper on Mar 5, 2015 14:01:55 GMT
Some bizarre ideas on here. Lets snub Europe in case we get injuries, perhaps we should opt out of the Carling and FA cups whilst we are at it, all to try and have a tilt next year - at what exactly ?, 7th place ? the Europa league raises our profile, adds income, provides some great awaydays, gives us a shot at winning another trophy. Really, what's not to like ??
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Post by foster on Mar 5, 2015 14:05:35 GMT
Some bizarre ideas on here. Lets snub Europe in case we get injuries, perhaps we should opt out of the Carling and FA cups whilst we are at it, all to try and have a tilt next year - at what exactly ?, 7th place ? the Europa league raises our profile, adds income, provides some great awaydays, gives us a shot at winning another trophy. Really, what's not to like ?? Cold wet Thursday nights in Zagreb.
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Post by burberrybassist on Mar 5, 2015 14:20:01 GMT
It's a toughie. Yes I'd sell my left bollock to see the likes of Inter Milan here at the Brit next season but if we have similar sized squad and injury list as we do this year then it could backfire big time!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2015 14:27:16 GMT
Could the Europa League be any worse than our complete and utter mickey take of an injury list this season?
I really don't think it would.
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Post by Davef on Mar 5, 2015 14:28:38 GMT
5th obviously. I'm not saying I don't want Stoke to finish as high as possible, of course I do. I'm just saying I wish we didn't have to do the Europa next season. The season after, for sure, Hughes will have improved our squad depth, got rid of shithouses like Maurice Edu and Wilson Palcios, and we'll have a team of 25 where Mark is willing to call on all of them. Right now, that isn't the case and I worry it would negatively impact our league form. You can't pick and choose when success comes your way. You have no idea what the make up of the team may be like next season, or whether we hit the kind of form we've reached this and last season, never mind in two seasons time. What if we don't have an injury crisis next season, but one the season after?
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Post by interestedobserver on Mar 5, 2015 14:31:29 GMT
I thought England was in line for a possible fair play slot in the Europa League -- which would mean eighth place is sufficient if the FA Cup falls favorably.
EDIT: Nevermind. I'm a fucking idiot.
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Post by 2004 on Mar 5, 2015 14:33:45 GMT
Would love to be in Europe again however to achieve it this season is a step too far.
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Post by realstokebloke on Mar 5, 2015 14:35:30 GMT
Yup, sorry, but i'd be with all those damp squibbers adding a note of 'careful what you wish for' here.
History tells us that Europe + insufficient depth & quality of squad can = a decidedly dodgy league campaign.
OK, Spuds look to have come out relatively unharmed for e.g. this year but look at Everton (martinez factor aside) and Newcastle two years ago.
Yes, Europe would be brilliant and we are getting there in terms of both quality & depth - yet even with major bucks spent in the summer, there would still be the settling in period required for new players for any run of form stable enough to sustain a league and European cup run of any note.
This year more than any also tells us that you have to factor in injury and plain old bad luck too of course.
I think we will miss out this year anyway, which, actually, might be no bad thing.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2015 14:56:58 GMT
Europa has to be our aim, what else is there for us , a cup, well surely not the FA cup now maybe a League Cup but even that seems to be more desirable for the top teams or more realistically the "Top Managers" as their success is only measured in silverware and gives them something to point to after Champions League failure.
So what do we need, like many I think we are still a little squad light for this season our level of injuries would surely only have been compounded by a European campaign and we are at skeleton crew now.
The dream is surely Barcelona knocked out in the group stages playing in the Europa league with Messi at the Brit, now what part of that dream is not possible, I'd say bring it on.
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Post by Binndy on Mar 5, 2015 15:12:50 GMT
Contracts for odemwingie , wollscheid and moses.A quality RB ,DM and an experienced 3rd GK.Plus shenton and around 4/5 under 21s that are ready for first team football.As in a fb , CB ,mf and w/s.Would give us a real chance of doing well at home ,in cups and in the europa. I feel 30 players that you can depend on.In a sense this gives us 2 teams and the bench. I am happy with top 12 and another season in the Europa and good runs in the cups games.Hughes said in his interview last night ,we are not the finished article.No middle of the table team on a limited budget can do well at home and in the europa without a few quality under 21s to turn to.
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Post by Northy on Mar 5, 2015 15:12:58 GMT
I would love another European adventure! Hopefully, it would mean investment into strengthening the squad and we would look a better proposition to a better calibre of player. Playing for a Prem club who finished 7th with Europa football next season, or playing for a team that finished say 10th I can't see it happening, but here's hoping Agree here, better players will look at us, get rid of Palacios, Sorensen is going, and a few more going and that money can be used to recruit better players for a similar outlay
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sting
Youth Player
Posts: 354
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Post by sting on Mar 5, 2015 15:25:51 GMT
Another Europa league campaign would be brilliant. To achieve it from a league position, even better. I can't understand why any Stoke supporter wouldn't want to be at this level. As Spurs already have a Europa spot, our best chance is to overhaul Southampton which is in itself still a big ask, but not impossible. Spurs do not already have a spot. They have not qualified as League Cup runners up. It goes back to the league for the team who finishes 6th.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2015 15:37:10 GMT
but that's my point... the deadwood you're mentioning will be going THIS summer (unless Hughes wants to extend their contracts which i'm pretty sure won't happen). Coates hasn't thrown money around the last couple of years you're right but has he needed to?? in terms of the way we play we're fields ahead of where we were and in terms of league position and points we're way better off too and haven't needed to splash the cash....the "New" transfer policy he wanted (i.e. foreign market, younger players with resale value) is working just fine and dandy at the moment because we have a manager in that knows how to implement and manage such a transfer policy and that kind of policy doesn't need tens of millions to be thrown around so again, i don't really see your point. Hughes has already proved 100% that throwing around tens of millions just isn't necessary. if we qualified for Europa and Hughes asked Coates for a bit of money for players to accommodate those extra commitments,he's not likely to tell Sparky to go fuck himself. I think the day Palacios goes will be an important day. Mark will really be able to make this squad his own with no lasting legacy from Tony. 100% agree... regardless of all the good he did for us, he has left us with some serious deadwood we've badly needed shifting for a long time now.
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Post by norman conquest on Mar 5, 2015 15:40:13 GMT
Someone stated earlier in this thread that we,re never going to break into the top 6, well if we,d had anything like an half decent start to the season and beaten Burnley, Villa and Leicester we,d be 6th, just behind the dippers on gd
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Post by metalhead on Mar 5, 2015 15:42:47 GMT
I think the day Palacios goes will be an important day. Mark will really be able to make this squad his own with no lasting legacy from Tony. 100% agree... regardless of all the good he did for us, he has left us with some serious deadwood we've badly needed shifting for a long time now. Agreed. Tony did so much good, but he did leave us with a legacy of some very poor players (Edu etc) and some who are simply finished (Palacios). We've come a long way since then, but we still have work to do.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Mar 5, 2015 15:56:05 GMT
5th obviously. I'm not saying I don't want Stoke to finish as high as possible, of course I do. I'm just saying I wish we didn't have to do the Europa next season. The season after, for sure, Hughes will have improved our squad depth, got rid of shithouses like Maurice Edu and Wilson Palcios, and we'll have a team of 25 where Mark is willing to call on all of them. Right now, that isn't the case and I worry it would negatively impact our league form. I understand your concerns mate but getting into Europe would be a very big thing for Stoke in terms of profile, attracting players. Yes we would have struggled this season but Hughes has had very little to spend so far and you'd expect/hope that a finishing position that brings in greater finance and the prospect of European games/TV coverage and the huge rise in revenue next season would mean that we'd be making a few significant signings in the summer.
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Post by apb1 on Mar 5, 2015 16:22:09 GMT
I would take a season of mid-table mediocrity if it meant going abroad to watch the lads again, and even seeing the home games was good, especially Besiktas. There are no guarantees that we will ever be challenging again in the near future, despite all the positive signs, and you have to take whatever you can get, not worry about the timing.
However, it seems a bit unlikely. Perhaps we'll finish 7th and not qualify like in 74-75. Wasn't it Everton who pipped us due to the one club one city rule being abolished?
I am still a bit unclear in any case, about permutations. I get that if it's a Man U Liverpool final and both are already in CL places that would do it for the 7th team. What if either of them were 5th, would it push the final EL place down a bit? And what if Chelsea win the CL? If that happens we get 5 entrants, do we keep our EL places too? So could it theoretically be 8th if:
Chelsea Man C Man U Liverpool are top 4 Man U and Liverpool in Cup Final Chelsea win CL
Arsenal get CL in 5th Soton or Spurs get EL in 6th and 7th We cruise in via 8th place.
Any experts out there?
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Post by miggo on Mar 5, 2015 17:42:37 GMT
Someone stated earlier in this thread that we,re never going to break into the top 6, well if we,d had anything like an half decent start to the season and beaten Burnley, Villa and Leicester we,d be 6th, just behind the dippers on gd And if we'd have won every game, we would be top. Imagine that!!
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