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Post by ukcstokie on Mar 11, 2015 8:25:23 GMT
So with Morgan to go (he has to get the chop from at least the captaincy doesn't he?), who's the next ODI skipper?
The only candidates I can see are: Root - though he does always seem to be in the middle of any trouble. Taylor - perhaps too soon, but he has captained Leicestershire. Broad - surely another casualty of this WC?
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Post by partickpotter on Mar 11, 2015 8:54:14 GMT
So with Morgan to go (he has to get the chop from at least the captaincy doesn't he?), who's the next ODI skipper? The only candidates I can see are: Root - though he does always seem to be in the middle of any trouble. Taylor - perhaps too soon, but he has captained Leicestershire. Broad - surely another casualty of this WC? I've got a suggestion; first pick the eleven you want to play, then pick the captain.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2015 11:10:24 GMT
So with Morgan to go (he has to get the chop from at least the captaincy doesn't he?), who's the next ODI skipper? The only candidates I can see are: Root - though he does always seem to be in the middle of any trouble. Taylor - perhaps too soon, but he has captained Leicestershire. Broad - surely another casualty of this WC? Well if Morgan is up for the chop ......his batting won't save him surely ?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2015 11:12:33 GMT
So with Morgan to go (he has to get the chop from at least the captaincy doesn't he?), who's the next ODI skipper? The only candidates I can see are: Root - though he does always seem to be in the middle of any trouble. Taylor - perhaps too soon, but he has captained Leicestershire. Broad - surely another casualty of this WC? I've got a suggestion; first pick the eleven you want to play, then pick the captain. That is the way I've always favoured mate , then you don't get a passenger at the helm as England have so often had over the years .....but it's not our way sadly
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Post by ukcstokie on Mar 11, 2015 11:17:30 GMT
So with Morgan to go (he has to get the chop from at least the captaincy doesn't he?), who's the next ODI skipper? The only candidates I can see are: Root - though he does always seem to be in the middle of any trouble. Taylor - perhaps too soon, but he has captained Leicestershire. Broad - surely another casualty of this WC? I've got a suggestion; first pick the eleven you want to play, then pick the captain. But is that how captaincy works in cricket? In football yes, but in cricket - from kids level upwards, isn't the captaincy awarded not on a match-by-match basis? You'd assume that the senior players from this squad will hang up their boots for ODIs (Bell, Anderson, Ravi? Broad?) or be consigned to the past. As you'd assume that any new arrivals to the team (Roy? Vince? Rashid?) wouldn't be considered until established, that doesn't leave many left of the established players: Root Taylor Moeen Woakes Buttler Ballance Hayles
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Post by ukcstokie on Mar 11, 2015 11:20:03 GMT
I've got a suggestion; first pick the eleven you want to play, then pick the captain. That is the way I've always favoured mate , then you don't get a passenger at the helm as England have so often had over the years .....but it's not our way sadly Maybe they award for series or seasons. But have a review period at the end. They could make it clear that the captain would be dropped given poor form - something we just haven't done to the senior players for a very long time (last I can think of was Prior).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2015 11:32:16 GMT
That is the way I've always favoured mate , then you don't get a passenger at the helm as England have so often had over the years .....but it's not our way sadly Maybe they award for series or seasons. But have a review period at the end. They could make it clear that the captain would be dropped given poor form - something we just haven't done to the senior players for a very long time (last I can think of was Prior). Well you know I'm not sure about Prior ? It seems like he was far from fit and carrying two debilitating injuries ......serious hand and achillies , he only carried on without operations at the request of the management and specifically the Captain .
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Post by ukcstokie on Mar 11, 2015 12:25:27 GMT
Maybe they award for series or seasons. But have a review period at the end. They could make it clear that the captain would be dropped given poor form - something we just haven't done to the senior players for a very long time (last I can think of was Prior). Well you know I'm not sure about Prior ? It seems like he was far from fit and carrying two debilitating injuries ......serious hand and achillies , he only carried on without operations at the request of the management and specifically the Captain . I think you're probably right about Prior. Just too injured to continue. Ignoring KP, who was the last senior established England cricketer to be dropped for poor performances?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2015 12:39:49 GMT
Well you know I'm not sure about Prior ? It seems like he was far from fit and carrying two debilitating injuries ......serious hand and achillies , he only carried on without operations at the request of the management and specifically the Captain . I think you're probably right about Prior. Just too injured to continue. Ignoring KP, who was the last senior established England cricketer to be dropped for poor performances? In the context of ODI Cricket it has to be Cook doesn't It ?
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Post by ukcstokie on Mar 11, 2015 13:42:13 GMT
I think you're probably right about Prior. Just too injured to continue. Ignoring KP, who was the last senior established England cricketer to be dropped for poor performances? In the context of ODI Cricket it has to be Cook doesn't It ? In any cricket really? Possibly Cooke, but that seemed less about dropping him, more about taking away the captaincy. I'm struggling to think of the last time?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2015 14:14:48 GMT
In the context of ODI Cricket it has to be Cook doesn't It ? In any cricket really? Possibly Cooke, but that seemed less about dropping him, more about taking away the captaincy. I'm struggling to think of the last time? So am I in fairly recent times to be honest .....
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Post by ukcstokie on Mar 11, 2015 14:35:51 GMT
In any cricket really? Possibly Cooke, but that seemed less about dropping him, more about taking away the captaincy. I'm struggling to think of the last time? So am I in fairly recent times to be honest ..... So either we are just forgetful... or this is a shocking indictment of how English cricket has been run. Once established, you're pretty much untouchable. No wonder it turned into such a mess.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2015 14:40:38 GMT
So am I in fairly recent times to be honest ..... So either we are just forgetful... or this is a shocking indictment of how English cricket has been run. Once established, you're pretty much untouchable. No wonder it turned into such a mess. The batting order has been pretty much a closed shop for years though all the changes have been mainly involuntary ones in recent times excepting Pietersen, I'm thinking , Trott, illness, Vaughan , injury retired , Trescothiick ,illness retired , Strauss , retired , Hussain , retired ....not many been dropped ?
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Mar 11, 2015 16:26:27 GMT
Carberry?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2015 17:30:51 GMT
Yes he was dropped , but he wasn't a long term established as a batsman ....perhaps on reflection a little unfairly treated , as was Compton , not that I'm suggesting either were top quality players .
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Post by partickpotter on Mar 11, 2015 18:05:58 GMT
Yes he was dropped , but he wasn't a long term established as a batsman ....perhaps on reflection a little unfairly treated , as was Compton , not that I'm suggesting either were top quality players . Interesting how both Carberry and Compton faired in their brief stints in the England set up - both started off OK, but seemed to freeze up after a while. Almost literally! Both had innings where they seemed unable to score. After which they were dumped. You could argue both had their chance but failed to take it. But... Listening to Carberry on Sky over the past few days he seems to have a grievance about how the English management asked him to play ie more restrained than he did at Hampshire. Maybe he has a point, maybe it's sour grapes. Whatever it was, he certainly wasn't in the set up long enough to be considered one of the...
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Post by sydneypotter on Mar 12, 2015 0:23:30 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised if Andy Moles name isn't mentioned in despatches as a possible replacement for the English coach. That is if Afghanistan put England to the sword in their next World Cup. match.
It seems to me that between Jason Gillespie and Moles this could be an excess of riches for the ECB to make a choice. Gillespie has an ongoing relationship (Yorkshire based) with the ECB Chairman I believe - that should help the cause somewhat.
As for your new skipper I really couldn't guess. A dressing room leader surely will, or already has, emerged during the recent turgid past.
Someone mentioned Warne as a possible inclusion to the England coaching set-up. Not a bad choice. He's possibly the best Australian player never to have been captain on his national side. Superb cricketing brain. If he can control his texting urges as well as keeping his fly firmly zipped, then England could a magnificent asset. He enjoys the English way of life too, so we are reliably informed.
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Post by ukcstokie on Mar 12, 2015 0:33:11 GMT
The England cricket team does feel like the equivalent to QPR.
The team can change. The strategy can change. The management can change.
But the organisation is just so messed up that success won't come.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2015 1:05:06 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised if Andy Moles name isn't mentioned in despatches as a possible replacement for the English coach. That is if Afghanistan put England to the sword in their next World Cup. match. It seems to me that between Jason Gillespie and Moles this could be an excess of riches for the ECB to make a choice. Gillespie has an ongoing relationship (Yorkshire based) with the ECB Chairman I believe - that should help the cause somewhat. As for your new skipper I really couldn't guess. A dressing room leader surely will, or already has, emerged during the recent turgid past. Someone mentioned Warne as a possible inclusion to the England coaching set-up. Not a bad choice. He's possibly the best Australian player never to have been captain on his national side. Superb cricketing brain. If he can control his texting urges as well as keeping his fly firmly zipped, then England could a magnificent asset. He enjoys the English way of life too, so we are reliably informed. Yes and English nurses apparently .Andy Moles .....not too sure about him although he has done a marvelous job with the Afghans ( that just sounds ridiculous doesn't it ? ) .
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Post by ukcstokie on Mar 12, 2015 1:18:25 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised if Andy Moles name isn't mentioned in despatches as a possible replacement for the English coach. That is if Afghanistan put England to the sword in their next World Cup. match. It seems to me that between Jason Gillespie and Moles this could be an excess of riches for the ECB to make a choice. Gillespie has an ongoing relationship (Yorkshire based) with the ECB Chairman I believe - that should help the cause somewhat. As for your new skipper I really couldn't guess. A dressing room leader surely will, or already has, emerged during the recent turgid past. Someone mentioned Warne as a possible inclusion to the England coaching set-up. Not a bad choice. He's possibly the best Australian player never to have been captain on his national side. Superb cricketing brain. If he can control his texting urges as well as keeping his fly firmly zipped, then England could a magnificent asset. He enjoys the English way of life too, so we are reliably informed. Some good suggestions for coach there. Wouldn't be surprised to add in Collingwood too. I mentioned Warne earlier in this thread to do coaching of young spinners, but a wider role wouldn't go a miss. He's got connections with Hampshire, so spending summers over here wouldn't be that big a problem for him. As you say, he's got a great cricketing brain - and he's not afraid to share it. P.S. Thanks for not taking the piss (though I'm sure you're desperate to!).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2015 1:20:28 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised if Andy Moles name isn't mentioned in despatches as a possible replacement for the English coach. That is if Afghanistan put England to the sword in their next World Cup. match. It seems to me that between Jason Gillespie and Moles this could be an excess of riches for the ECB to make a choice. Gillespie has an ongoing relationship (Yorkshire based) with the ECB Chairman I believe - that should help the cause somewhat. As for your new skipper I really couldn't guess. A dressing room leader surely will, or already has, emerged during the recent turgid past. Someone mentioned Warne as a possible inclusion to the England coaching set-up. Not a bad choice. He's possibly the best Australian player never to have been captain on his national side. Superb cricketing brain. If he can control his texting urges as well as keeping his fly firmly zipped, then England could a magnificent asset. He enjoys the English way of life too, so we are reliably informed. Some good suggestions for coach there. Wouldn't be surprised to add in Collingwood too. I mentioned Warne earlier in this thread to do coaching of young spinners, but a wider role wouldn't go a miss. He's got connections with Hampshire, so spending summers over here wouldn't be that big a problem for him. As you say, he's got a great cricketing brain - and he's not afraid to share it. P.S. Thanks for not taking the piss (though I'm sure you're desperate to!). Don't forget he is really only an English man abroad ....
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Post by ukcstokie on Mar 12, 2015 1:24:35 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised if Andy Moles name isn't mentioned in despatches as a possible replacement for the English coach. That is if Afghanistan put England to the sword in their next World Cup. match. It seems to me that between Jason Gillespie and Moles this could be an excess of riches for the ECB to make a choice. Gillespie has an ongoing relationship (Yorkshire based) with the ECB Chairman I believe - that should help the cause somewhat. As for your new skipper I really couldn't guess. A dressing room leader surely will, or already has, emerged during the recent turgid past. Someone mentioned Warne as a possible inclusion to the England coaching set-up. Not a bad choice. He's possibly the best Australian player never to have been captain on his national side. Superb cricketing brain. If he can control his texting urges as well as keeping his fly firmly zipped, then England could a magnificent asset. He enjoys the English way of life too, so we are reliably informed. Yes and English nurses apparently .Andy Moles .....not too sure about him although he has done a marvelous job with the Afghans ( that just sounds ridiculous doesn't it ? ) . Re: Moles - It does feel as though an underperforming Champion's League hopeful team would be bringing in a coach from Division one.
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Post by ukcstokie on Mar 12, 2015 1:29:04 GMT
Some good suggestions for coach there. Wouldn't be surprised to add in Collingwood too. I mentioned Warne earlier in this thread to do coaching of young spinners, but a wider role wouldn't go a miss. He's got connections with Hampshire, so spending summers over here wouldn't be that big a problem for him. As you say, he's got a great cricketing brain - and he's not afraid to share it. P.S. Thanks for not taking the piss (though I'm sure you're desperate to!). Don't forget he is really only an English man abroad .... Is he? Always thought SidneyPotter was a proper Aussie? Come on, enlighten us!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2015 1:31:07 GMT
Yes and English nurses apparently .Andy Moles .....not too sure about him although he has done a marvelous job with the Afghans ( that just sounds ridiculous doesn't it ? ) . Re: Moles - It does feel as though an underperforming Champion's League hopeful team would be bringing in a coach from Division one. I remember him as an opening bat for Warwickshire in the 90's .....not much to get overly excited about , but that should not be a factor in anything concerning team management ( I prefer that description , as I feel coach is a little misleading )
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2015 1:32:41 GMT
Don't forget he is really only an English man abroad .... Is he? Always thought SidneyPotter was a proper Aussie? Come on, enlighten us! He's an ex pat Stokie of some 40 years I believe
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Post by ukcstokie on Mar 12, 2015 1:39:37 GMT
Re: Moles - It does feel as though an underperforming Champion's League hopeful team would be bringing in a coach from Division one. I remember him as an opening bat for Warwickshire in the 90's .....not much to get overly excited about , but that should not be a factor in anything concerning team management ( I prefer that description , as I feel coach is a little misleading ) The level someone plays at doesn't how good they'll be coaching/managing (just think TP vs. Bryan Robson). It is more of a management role isn't it. A role that seems to have emerged in the last 10-15 years. Wasn't there just a captain and a tour manager in the 1990's and earlier? (South Africans started well. This could be big (if A.B.D.V. gets going).
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Post by ukcstokie on Mar 12, 2015 1:43:40 GMT
Is he? Always thought SidneyPotter was a proper Aussie? Come on, enlighten us! He's an ex pat Stokie of some 40 years I believe Don't tell anyone, I think he's gone native then! That being the case, it's not that long until I'm off to be a "soft southerner"!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2015 1:49:02 GMT
I remember him as an opening bat for Warwickshire in the 90's .....not much to get overly excited about , but that should not be a factor in anything concerning team management ( I prefer that description , as I feel coach is a little misleading ) The level someone plays at doesn't how good they'll be coaching/managing (just think TP vs. Bryan Robson). It is more of a management role isn't it. A role that seems to have emerged in the last 10-15 years. Wasn't there just a captain and a tour manager in the 1990's and earlier? (South Africans started well. This could be big (if A.B.D.V. gets going). That's true enough I suppose ....but it must have major advantages for someone doing the job if they have played at the highest level , how can you interact with Test match players if you don't understand the nuances of the game at that level ? ....this was the problem when Pietersen was captain an Moores was coach first time around .....Pietersen had no respect at all for the coach ..he said as much afterwards ....and I understand that .
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2015 1:55:10 GMT
I remember him as an opening bat for Warwickshire in the 90's .....not much to get overly excited about , but that should not be a factor in anything concerning team management ( I prefer that description , as I feel coach is a little misleading ) The level someone plays at doesn't how good they'll be coaching/managing (just think TP vs. Bryan Robson). It is more of a management role isn't it. A role that seems to have emerged in the last 10-15 years. Wasn't there just a captain and a tour manager in the 1990's and earlier? (South Africans started well. This could be big (if A.B.D.V. gets going). Yes and before that ....the Captain ran everything ....hence the clash of personalities between Gower and Mickey Stewart when Gower was re- appointed Captain in 1989 ....he wanted complete control of the team as before ....making Stewart nothing more than an Errand Boy ....we know the outcome ...it ended up finishing Gowers career a couple of years later .....long before it should have been over ( not withstanding the Tiger Moth affair )
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Post by ukcstokie on Mar 12, 2015 1:59:45 GMT
The level someone plays at doesn't how good they'll be coaching/managing (just think TP vs. Bryan Robson). It is more of a management role isn't it. A role that seems to have emerged in the last 10-15 years. Wasn't there just a captain and a tour manager in the 1990's and earlier? (South Africans started well. This could be big (if A.B.D.V. gets going). That's true enough I suppose ....but it must have major advantages for someone doing the job if they have played at the highest level , how can you interact with Test match players if you don't understand the nuances of the game at that level ? ....this was the problem when Pietersen was captain an Moores was coach first time around .....Pietersen had no respect at all for the coach ..he said as much afterwards ....and I understand that . If players think that they can only respect a coach/manager who was as good as them, then the pool is going to be very limited. I think KP's feelings said a lot about KP to be honest. Management/coaching and playing are different skills. There's a big crossover between the two, but great player + time does not always equal a great coach. Just think Mourinio. He didn't play football at any level but still manages a bunch of top top footballers pretty successfully.
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