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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2015 18:38:08 GMT
lets hope Ireland can sneak though Let's not ....
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2015 18:38:54 GMT
lets hope Ireland can sneak though Morgan in defection shocker! He could for me ....
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Post by partickpotter on Mar 9, 2015 18:47:35 GMT
We need to take some of the aspiring next generation quicks and train them up to bowl at 90+ mph. Whatever that takes, fitness, strength, technique, practice, practice, practice. Back in 2005 3 of our 4 quicks bowled at that pace. Today none of our quicks do. We've got lazy; accepted standards that are well below what it takes to be the best. Finn is a joke. Broad no better. Jordan, Woakes, Stokes all well of the pace needed. Fixing this is going to take effort and focus. But it can be done. But, to fix something, we have to accept something is wrong. I've been more concerned about the bowling than the batting for a while now ....and it's saying something to say that ! I'm still numb. I feel worse now than in the recent Ashes whitewashes. At least we had the consolation that it was only a very good on fire Australia team trouncing us. This time, basically anyone can hammer us. Destroyed by Australia, New Zealand and Sri Lanka - humbled today by Bangladesh. This has to be the most abject inept display by any English cricket side ever. And post match it doesn't get any better. Moores wants to fight on. Morgan wants a test place. Both should have resigned immediately, along with Downton. Just appalling. The word disgrace does not do justice to England today. But, this has been coming. Our senior players have been way below par for far too long. I'm talking 18 months plus. And I include Cook and Pietersen in our list of under achieving players. I read today Bell has scored just 4 centuries in 160 ODIs!!!! What does it take for a senior player to get dropped.
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Post by StokieAsh13 on Mar 9, 2015 19:02:16 GMT
Spinners are a problem. Need one quickly, however there aren't a lot that are out and out bowlers, They seem to be batsmen who can just do it part time.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Mar 9, 2015 19:04:56 GMT
Morgan in defection shocker! He could for me .... Would he get in their side at the moment?I doubt it.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Mar 9, 2015 19:09:10 GMT
I know this will be controversial, but I would get in touch with KP and say to him, "Do you want back in the England fold"? If so, you can come back has England Coach, if any of the current players don't like it, they can just fuck off back to just playing domestic cricket and stay there. Of course he wants to be back in the set up ......But as Coach ? ......his ability as a player is not in doubt , but as a leader ....I can't see it myself He couldn't do any worse than what Moores is doing I'm sure.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2015 19:12:19 GMT
Spinners are a problem. Need one quickly, however there aren't a lot that are out and out bowlers, They seem to be batsmen who can just do it part time. Adil Rashid deserves a run in the team, yes he can be expensive but he takes wickets and is a superb batter. Get him in the international scene to see if he's got a big match temperament, I've always liked what I've seen when I've seen him play.....
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Post by ukcstokie on Mar 9, 2015 19:52:40 GMT
lets hope Ireland can sneak though Morgan in defection shocker! Would Morgan get in the Ireland side on his current form?
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Post by ukcstokie on Mar 9, 2015 20:09:33 GMT
Spinners are a problem. Need one quickly, however there aren't a lot that are out and out bowlers, They seem to be batsmen who can just do it part time. Adil Rashid deserves a run in the team, yes he can be expensive but he takes wickets and is a superb batter. Get him in the international scene to see if he's got a big match temperament, I've always liked what I've seen when I've seen him play..... Me too. Working with Moeen (Rashid turning the ball away from a RHB and Moeen into) I think they could do really well. Listening to Downton doesn't fill me confidence that they recognise the problem they're dealing with. Sounds as though they'll be more tinkering. Maybe the ECB need to have specialist training programmes for young fast bowlers and spinners. They could identify the top 10 of each between 15 and 21, and use specialist coaches to develop them throughout the year. If need be, bring in specialists to help the youngsters. Warne would be more than happy to spend the summer over here sharing his knowledge wouldn't he? One of the problems with our pace bowling - they seem to have it coached out of them. Whereas the Aussies seem to have lot of 90mph bowlers, I think our coaches preach control first. Didn't that happen to Graham Dilley? Started off as proper quickie but then got coached for line and length - ended up just an average 80mph bowler.
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Post by StokieAsh13 on Mar 9, 2015 20:33:01 GMT
Spinners are a problem. Need one quickly, however there aren't a lot that are out and out bowlers, They seem to be batsmen who can just do it part time. Adil Rashid deserves a run in the team, yes he can be expensive but he takes wickets and is a superb batter. Get him in the international scene to see if he's got a big match temperament, I've always liked what I've seen when I've seen him play..... I've seen bits of him, looks good timing has to be right, don't want another Kerrigan episode.
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Post by redstriper on Mar 9, 2015 20:47:04 GMT
Morgan in defection shocker! Would Morgan get in the Ireland side on his current form? on current form -Morgan wouldn't get into my midweek pub team!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2015 21:35:39 GMT
He could for me .... Would he get in their side at the moment?I doubt it. I think he would mate .....Ed Joyce would probably get in ours these days .
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2015 21:38:42 GMT
I've been more concerned about the bowling than the batting for a while now ....and it's saying something to say that ! I'm still numb. I feel worse now than in the recent Ashes whitewashes. At least we had the consolation that it was only a very good on fire Australia team trouncing us. This time, basically anyone can hammer us. Destroyed by Australia, New Zealand and Sri Lanka - humbled today by Bangladesh. This has to be the most abject inept display by any English cricket side ever. And post match it doesn't get any better. Moores wants to fight on. Morgan wants a test place. Both should have resigned immediately, along with Downton. Just appalling. The word disgrace does not do justice to England today. But, this has been coming. Our senior players have been way below par for far too long. I'm talking 18 months plus. And I include Cook and Pietersen in our list of under achieving players. I read today Bell has scored just 4 centuries in 160 ODIs!!!! What does it take for a senior player to get dropped. I have to say it's too disapointing for words .....no matter how many times it's happened ....it still hurts when we get beat badly like this
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Post by Okie Stokie. on Mar 9, 2015 21:55:21 GMT
My reaction on seeing and hearing the result of the cricket.....( Have I mentioned my uncanny resemblance to Bradley Cooper.
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Post by liathroid on Mar 9, 2015 22:02:14 GMT
Morgan in defection shocker! Would Morgan get in the Ireland side on his current form? Have to say I know fuck all about cricket
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Post by Okie Stokie. on Mar 9, 2015 22:12:19 GMT
Would Morgan get in the Ireland side on his current form? Have to say I know fuck all about cricket Why let anything like that get in the way Liathroid. I do it all the time.
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Post by liathroid on Mar 9, 2015 22:19:05 GMT
Have to say I know fuck all about cricket Why let anything like that get in the way Liathroid. I do it all the time. we know
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Post by Okie Stokie. on Mar 9, 2015 22:21:13 GMT
Why let anything like that get in the way Liathroid. I do it all the time. we know I thought I hid it well. But it seems not that well.
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Post by liathroid on Mar 9, 2015 22:41:24 GMT
a little song for your returning hero's
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2015 23:29:36 GMT
we know I thought I hid it well. But it seems not that well. Not at all in fact ....
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2015 23:37:07 GMT
Adil Rashid deserves a run in the team, yes he can be expensive but he takes wickets and is a superb batter. Get him in the international scene to see if he's got a big match temperament, I've always liked what I've seen when I've seen him play..... Me too. Working with Moeen (Rashid turning the ball away from a RHB and Moeen into) I think they could do really well. Listening to Downton doesn't fill me confidence that they recognise the problem they're dealing with. Sounds as though they'll be more tinkering. Maybe the ECB need to have specialist training programmes for young fast bowlers and spinners. They could identify the top 10 of each between 15 and 21, and use specialist coaches to develop them throughout the year. If need be, bring in specialists to help the youngsters. Warne would be more than happy to spend the summer over here sharing his knowledge wouldn't he? One of the problems with our pace bowling - they seem to have it coached out of them. Whereas the Aussies seem to have lot of 90mph bowlers, I think our coaches preach control first. Didn't that happen to Graham Dilley? Started off as proper quickie but then got coached for line and length - ended up just an average 80mph bowler. No I don't think Dilley was that slow , he was a genuine quick when he came on to the scene .....injury took its toll with Dilley , but he did become a very good sharpish bowler who moved it both ways both off the seam and in the air .
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Post by ukcstokie on Mar 10, 2015 1:16:34 GMT
Me too. Working with Moeen (Rashid turning the ball away from a RHB and Moeen into) I think they could do really well. Listening to Downton doesn't fill me confidence that they recognise the problem they're dealing with. Sounds as though they'll be more tinkering. Maybe the ECB need to have specialist training programmes for young fast bowlers and spinners. They could identify the top 10 of each between 15 and 21, and use specialist coaches to develop them throughout the year. If need be, bring in specialists to help the youngsters. Warne would be more than happy to spend the summer over here sharing his knowledge wouldn't he? One of the problems with our pace bowling - they seem to have it coached out of them. Whereas the Aussies seem to have lot of 90mph bowlers, I think our coaches preach control first. Didn't that happen to Graham Dilley? Started off as proper quickie but then got coached for line and length - ended up just an average 80mph bowler. No I don't think Dilley was that slow , he was a genuine quick when he came on to the scene .....injury took its toll with Dilley , but he did become a very good sharpish bowler who moved it both ways both off the seam and in the air . I was pretty certain that they cut his run up down and remodelled his action and he never had the same pace again. I maybe wrong though! Still remembered fondly for his batting (with ITB at Headingly). The Irish showing how you start batting in an ODI. Taking control with aggression. Sure it won't last too long but we just don't play cricket with that attitude.
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Post by partickpotter on Mar 10, 2015 7:17:33 GMT
Adil Rashid deserves a run in the team, yes he can be expensive but he takes wickets and is a superb batter. Get him in the international scene to see if he's got a big match temperament, I've always liked what I've seen when I've seen him play..... Me too. Working with Moeen (Rashid turning the ball away from a RHB and Moeen into) I think they could do really well. Listening to Downton doesn't fill me confidence that they recognise the problem they're dealing with. Sounds as though they'll be more tinkering. Maybe the ECB need to have specialist training programmes for young fast bowlers and spinners. They could identify the top 10 of each between 15 and 21, and use specialist coaches to develop them throughout the year. If need be, bring in specialists to help the youngsters. Warne would be more than happy to spend the summer over here sharing his knowledge wouldn't he? One of the problems with our pace bowling - they seem to have it coached out of them. Whereas the Aussies seem to have lot of 90mph bowlers, I think our coaches preach control first. Didn't that happen to Graham Dilley? Started off as proper quickie but then got coached for line and length - ended up just an average 80mph bowler. Amen to that.
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Post by lastoftheldk on Mar 10, 2015 7:20:28 GMT
(whistle)India scraping through,
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Post by partickpotter on Mar 10, 2015 7:21:03 GMT
No I don't think Dilley was that slow , he was a genuine quick when he came on to the scene .....injury took its toll with Dilley , but he did become a very good sharpish bowler who moved it both ways both off the seam and in the air . I was pretty certain that they cut his run up down and remodelled his action and he never had the same pace again. I maybe wrong though! Still remembered fondly for his batting (with ITB at Headingly). The Irish showing how you start batting in an ODI. Taking control with aggression. Sure it won't last too long but we just don't play cricket with that attitude. And the Indians showing how you chase down a score of 250+. (228-2 after 33 overs currently in response to Ireland's 259).
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Post by ukcstokie on Mar 10, 2015 8:29:48 GMT
I was pretty certain that they cut his run up down and remodelled his action and he never had the same pace again. I maybe wrong though! Still remembered fondly for his batting (with ITB at Headingly). The Irish showing how you start batting in an ODI. Taking control with aggression. Sure it won't last too long but we just don't play cricket with that attitude. And the Indians showing how you chase down a score of 250+. (228-2 after 33 overs currently in response to Ireland's 259). It's not like we have to reinvent the game is it? There's plenty of blue prints out there that we could follow. Unfortunately the one we had was obsoleted 10 years ago. We've been told for years that they knew better, that this was the way to go. It was patently obvious they were wrong. I'm not convinced that they have accepted that though. Not at all.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 9:35:16 GMT
No I don't think Dilley was that slow , he was a genuine quick when he came on to the scene .....injury took its toll with Dilley , but he did become a very good sharpish bowler who moved it both ways both off the seam and in the air . I was pretty certain that they cut his run up down and remodelled his action and he never had the same pace again. I maybe wrong though! Still remembered fondly for his batting (with ITB at Headingly). The Irish showing how you start batting in an ODI. Taking control with aggression. Sure it won't last too long but we just don't play cricket with that attitude. No you were not that wrong , but it wasn't for the sake of change , he had back problems which made it neccessary to change his action a llittle .....he was as you say never as quick again , but he was quite a bit quicker than 80 mph....good bowler ,untill the injury ultimately finished him .....very sad that he passed away at such a young age a few years ago .
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Post by sydneypotter on Mar 10, 2015 23:06:43 GMT
Oh dear, poor England. That isn't said cynically but with sympathy. I've deliberately stayed off this thread for a while to allow the bellowing and shouting to subside before I contributed. I read that the English press is wringing out all manner of contortions from the analysis of the recent England World Cup performance. I suppose that someone has to be hung from the cross or publicly pilloried in Trafalgar Square, so Morgan, Moores and Downton are unfortunately ready made aunt sally's.
The one major upside to this debacle is that the ECB can now start to rebuild the management and or the management structure to one that should reflect the needs of English cricket. that is of course if the ECB take a hard look at themselves as part of the process. Let's face it, world cricket needs England and England needs to be competitive into the future. The how is problematic. From where I sit England is looking at replacing the coach and the captain as a minimum. Morgan has been an unmitigated failure. His demeaner on the field is a disgrace to the game and his batting and captaincy are a good distance from being Sheffield Shield colts level.
I read that Jason Gillespie is in the frame to take over as coach. His spell in Yorkshire has been followed by a number of cricket luminaries here and his success isn't too much of a surprise. Perhaps he's the next Marsh. By the way, what ever happened to the England Cricket Academy of a few years ago?
Hopefully there is someone in the mix who has the courage to grasp the nettle in the same way that the ACB did a few years ago. Clear out the deadwood and the flowery coaching methods, get back to the essentials and trust the talent pool you already have.
There you go. That's my sixpence worth.
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Post by salopstick on Mar 10, 2015 23:13:26 GMT
There is two much meaningless international one day cricket. Each game win or lose just rolls into the next
The world cup is when it gets competitive. Maybe it should be every two years with a structured one day program with all cricket countries run around it
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Post by partickpotter on Mar 10, 2015 23:16:13 GMT
Oh dear, poor England. That isn't said cynically but with sympathy. I've deliberately stayed off this thread for a while to allow the bellowing and shouting to subside before I contributed. I read that the English press is wringing out all manner of contortions from the analysis of the recent England World Cup performance. I suppose that someone has to be hung from the cross or publicly pilloried in Trafalgar Square, so Morgan, Moores and Downton are unfortunately ready made aunt sally's. The one major upside to this debacle is that the ECB can now start to rebuild the management and or the management structure to one that should reflect the needs of English cricket. that is of course if the ECB take a hard look at themselves as part of the process. Let's face it, world cricket needs England and England needs to be competitive into the future. The how is problematic. From where I sit England is looking at replacing the coach and the captain as a minimum. Morgan has been an unmitigated failure. His demeaner on the field is a disgrace to the game and his batting and captaincy are a good distance from being Sheffield Shield colts level. I read that Jason Gillespie is in the frame to take over as coach. His spell in Yorkshire has been followed by a number of cricket luminaries here and his success isn't too much of a surprise. Perhaps he's the next Marsh. By the way, what ever happened to the England Cricket Academy of a few years ago? Hopefully there is someone in the mix who has the courage to grasp the nettle in the same way that the ACB did a few years ago. Clear out the deadwood and the flowery coaching methods, get back to the essentials and trust the talent pool you already have. There you go. That's my sixpence worth. It's not all negative. Positive #1. We have plenty of young batting talent. They will surely now get their chance. Positive #2. The management will change. Some of a England's problems can be fixed quite quickly with personnel changes and new leadership. The biggest worry is our bowling. No quick fixes there.
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