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Post by kbillyh on Jun 22, 2015 19:11:00 GMT
Taxing the rich to death doesn't work anymore, these people can just up sticks and move elsewhere. Look at France Oh, is this the same Nick1984 who is sick of people posting on political threads? Must be a different one, duplicate accounts or something.
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Post by crapslinger on Jun 22, 2015 19:21:31 GMT
Taxing the rich to death doesn't work anymore, these people can just up sticks and move elsewhere. Look at France I seem to recall that there were rumours of Russian mafia money having some part in Greek banking issues, so there may be a link between the two financially.
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Post by partickpotter on Jun 22, 2015 21:22:13 GMT
Taxing the rich to death doesn't work anymore, these people can just up sticks and move elsewhere. Look at France I seem to recall that there were rumours of Russian mafia money having some part in Greek banking issues, so there may be a link between the two financially. There's Russian Mafia money all over Europe - including the Premier Łeague. That ain't Greece's problem. It's much more simple than that. They don't collect enough tax to pay all the public services they provide. Simple Thatchernomics. You spend what you can afford. So spend less or earn more. It's that simple. Not easy mind if you've got an endemic culture of tax evasion and welfare (ok - generous state pension) dependency.
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Post by boothenboy75 on Jun 27, 2015 6:17:20 GMT
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Jun 27, 2015 6:59:57 GMT
Good luck to the Greeks, I'm expecting a No vote.
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Post by partickpotter on Jun 27, 2015 7:29:17 GMT
Good luck to the Greeks, I'm expecting a No vote. Hard to imagine anything but a No. But the real issue isn't the question about accepting of rejecting the terms of the deal - it's about the consequences. Is this a game of bluff or it it an end game. In other words, if they vote no does that mean Europe reconsiders the terms or does it mean they leave the Euro. I reckon it's important voters understand this.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2015 7:30:26 GMT
Nice country but awful yoghurt,
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Post by Miles Offside on Jun 27, 2015 10:22:10 GMT
With a civil service pro-rata four times the size of Germany's; with bus drivers, hairdressers and masseurs retiring in their fifties on good state pensions because they have been in "hazardous" professions; with the tax collectors not doing their jobs, and an unsustainable 300+ billion debt, the amazing thing is that it's gone on this long before it's reached the crisis they're now in.
Good luck to the Greeks, but they need far more than luck.
Most of all they need a government which will face facts, make unpopular decisions and devise a long-term recovery strategy.
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Jun 27, 2015 10:29:58 GMT
Good luck to the Greeks, I'm expecting a No vote. Hard to imagine anything but a No. But the real issue isn't the question about accepting of rejecting the terms of the deal - it's about the consequences. Is this a game of bluff or it it an end game. In other words, if they vote no does that mean Europe reconsiders the terms or does it mean they leave the Euro. I reckon it's important voters understand this. I know a Greek doctor, and he's all for getting out of the Euro and the Greeks being able to take back control of his country. He knows the consequences are grim, but he feels that his country will be run by the French and German banks instead of the Greeks, if they stay in the Euro/EU. If the EU allow Greece to leave, it will put them in an impossible situation, it's not like they would impose economic sanctions on a bankrupt European country, and if Greece grows stronger, other counties may pursue the same course, and even the UK may be persuaded to leave the EU in the referendum.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2015 11:12:50 GMT
Nice country but awful yoghurt, Like licking a battery
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2015 11:16:38 GMT
Hard to imagine anything but a No. But the real issue isn't the question about accepting of rejecting the terms of the deal - it's about the consequences. Is this a game of bluff or it it an end game. In other words, if they vote no does that mean Europe reconsiders the terms or does it mean they leave the Euro. I reckon it's important voters understand this. I know a Greek doctor, and he's all for getting out of the Euro and the Greeks being able to take back control of his country. He knows the consequences are grim, but he feels that his country will be run by the French and German banks instead of the Greeks, if they stay in the Euro/EU. If the EU allow Greece to leave, it will put them in an impossible situation, it's not like they would impose economic sanctions on a bankrupt European country, and if Greece grows stronger, other counties may pursue the same course, and even the UK may be persuaded to leave the EU in the referendum. As here in blighty, Imo I doubt they will be allowed to leave in the end.......business want in so they can continue to drink gravy from the trough.
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Post by partickpotter on Jun 27, 2015 12:03:42 GMT
I know a Greek doctor, and he's all for getting out of the Euro and the Greeks being able to take back control of his country. He knows the consequences are grim, but he feels that his country will be run by the French and German banks instead of the Greeks, if they stay in the Euro/EU. If the EU allow Greece to leave, it will put them in an impossible situation, it's not like they would impose economic sanctions on a bankrupt European country, and if Greece grows stronger, other counties may pursue the same course, and even the UK may be persuaded to leave the EU in the referendum. As here in blighty, Imo I doubt they will be allowed to leave in the end.......business want in so they can continue to drink gravy from the trough. There's a difference. Business here wants us in Europe but not the Euro. Suspect Greece would be happy with the same. In that regards Dave may have an ally in his socialist counterpart in Greece. Europe has a tradition of producing unlikely bedfellows; Benn and Powell in the past. Nige and Bob Crow more recently.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2015 12:29:58 GMT
As here in blighty, Imo I doubt they will be allowed to leave in the end.......business want in so they can continue to drink gravy from the trough. There's a difference. Business here wants us in Europe but not the Euro. Suspect Greece would be happy with the same. In that regards Dave may have an ally in his socialist counterpart in Greece. Europe has a tradition of producing unlikely bedfellows; Benn and Powell in the past. Nige and Bob Crow more recently. Apologies didn't read it thoroughly. Just to clarify, I was watching a news program the other day that were implying the majority of Greek publicreally want to stay in the eu ......as the eu rolls on I'm not sure being in without accepting the euro will be possible That goes for us too Europe put us on a choker chain many moons ago with plenty of slack to keep the bulldog sweet........with each day their arm gets stronger and the choker chain is pulled tighter Why there are a lot of people happy with this is beyond me Still, too late for us all now I'm off to replace my avatar with the grim reaper
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Post by greenhoff74 on Jun 27, 2015 12:33:42 GMT
Got to admire Tsipras he's going to ballot the people in referendum, they will decide, I suspect it's not what the European heirachy want to hear
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Post by partickpotter on Jun 27, 2015 12:47:08 GMT
There's a difference. Business here wants us in Europe but not the Euro. Suspect Greece would be happy with the same. In that regards Dave may have an ally in his socialist counterpart in Greece. Europe has a tradition of producing unlikely bedfellows; Benn and Powell in the past. Nige and Bob Crow more recently. Apologies didn't read it thoroughly. Just to clarify, I was watching a news program the other day that were implying the majority of Greek publicreally want to stay in the eu ......as the eu rolls on I'm not sure being in without accepting the euro will be possible That goes for us too Europe put us on a choker chain many moons ago with plenty of slack to keep the bulldog sweet........with each day their arm gets stronger and the choker chain is pulled tighter Why there are a lot of people happy with this is beyond me Still, too late for us all now I'm off to replace my avatar with the grim reaper Make sure you choose a politically neutral grim reaper. Europe is in crisis just now - and no one seems to know what the solution is. Fortress Britannia as advocated by UKIP isn't, IMO, the answer, nor is full political union which Eurocrats see as the solution to the Euros woes. It may be in theory, but then again Marx looks good in a book. A disaster in practice though. The answer? I don't know - other than saying a reformed Europe, which is such a bland statement as to be worthless! That's what our leaders are paid to figure out. While they mess things up though, fiascos like the PIGS are inevitable.
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Post by mermaidsal on Jun 27, 2015 13:01:00 GMT
Really believe in what the Greek govt are trying to but it leaves them so vulnerableto dodgy money pouring in from eg Russia -= not a problem in itself but when it starts messing with their legal system it will be .
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 27, 2015 14:34:56 GMT
Apologies didn't read it thoroughly. Just to clarify, I was watching a news program the other day that were implying the majority of Greek publicreally want to stay in the eu ......as the eu rolls on I'm not sure being in without accepting the euro will be possible That goes for us too Europe put us on a choker chain many moons ago with plenty of slack to keep the bulldog sweet........with each day their arm gets stronger and the choker chain is pulled tighter Why there are a lot of people happy with this is beyond me Still, too late for us all now I'm off to replace my avatar with the grim reaper Make sure you choose a politically neutral grim reaper. Europe is in crisis just now - and no one seems to know what the solution is. Fortress Britannia as advocated by UKIP isn't, IMO, the answer, nor is full political union which Eurocrats see as the solution to the Euros woes. It may be in theory, but then again Marx looks good in a book. A disaster in practice though. The answer? I don't know - other than saying a reformed Europe, which is such a bland statement as to be worthless! That's what our leaders are paid to figure out. While they mess things up though, fiascos like the PIGS are inevitable. Patrick UKIP are not advocating 'Fortress Europe' ,just anti the undemocratic EU. The press need to portray them as this and Farage as the fall guy because they pose a threat to the political and corporate masters
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Post by harryburrows on Jun 27, 2015 16:33:26 GMT
Apologies didn't read it thoroughly. Just to clarify, I was watching a news program the other day that were implying the majority of Greek publicreally want to stay in the eu ......as the eu rolls on I'm not sure being in without accepting the euro will be possible That goes for us too Europe put us on a choker chain many moons ago with plenty of slack to keep the bulldog sweet........with each day their arm gets stronger and the choker chain is pulled tighter Why there are a lot of people happy with this is beyond me Still, too late for us all now I'm off to replace my avatar with the grim reaper Make sure you choose a politically neutral grim reaper. Europe is in crisis just now - and no one seems to know what the solution is. Fortress Britannia as advocated by UKIP isn't, IMO, the answer, nor is full political union which Eurocrats see as the solution to the Euros woes. It may be in theory, but then again Marx looks good in a book. A disaster in practice though. The answer? I don't know - other than saying a reformed Europe, which is such a bland statement as to be worthless! That's what our leaders are paid to figure out. While they mess things up though, fiascos like the PIGS are inevitable. Sadly the only way to make the euro work effectively is full political and economic union for all its members , until such time as this happens they will continue to fudge the Greek problem . After all the conditions they are trying to impose on Greece are meant to try and bring some controls over there public spending , in order to lend them more money to avoid being in default . It's completely unsustainable economics
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Post by partickpotter on Jun 27, 2015 17:15:35 GMT
Make sure you choose a politically neutral grim reaper. Europe is in crisis just now - and no one seems to know what the solution is. Fortress Britannia as advocated by UKIP isn't, IMO, the answer, nor is full political union which Eurocrats see as the solution to the Euros woes. It may be in theory, but then again Marx looks good in a book. A disaster in practice though. The answer? I don't know - other than saying a reformed Europe, which is such a bland statement as to be worthless! That's what our leaders are paid to figure out. While they mess things up though, fiascos like the PIGS are inevitable. Sadly the only way to make the euro work effectively is full political and economic union for all its members , until such time as this happens they will continue to fudge the Greek problem . After all the conditions they are trying to impose on Greece are meant to try and bring some controls over there public spending , in order to lend them more money to avoid being in default . It's completely unsustainable economics And unsustainable politics. Only the most dedicated theoretical Eurocrats could see further political and economic Union as the solution to the current problems. Sadly there are lots of those creatures in Brussels and Strasbourg.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2015 18:32:58 GMT
Apologies didn't read it thoroughly. Just to clarify, I was watching a news program the other day that were implying the majority of Greek publicreally want to stay in the eu ......as the eu rolls on I'm not sure being in without accepting the euro will be possible That goes for us too Europe put us on a choker chain many moons ago with plenty of slack to keep the bulldog sweet........with each day their arm gets stronger and the choker chain is pulled tighter Why there are a lot of people happy with this is beyond me Still, too late for us all now I'm off to replace my avatar with the grim reaper Make sure you choose a politically neutral grim reaper. Europe is in crisis just now - and no one seems to know what the solution is. Fortress Britannia as advocated by UKIP isn't, IMO, the answer, nor is full political union which Eurocrats see as the solution to the Euros woes. It may be in theory, but then again Marx looks good in a book. A disaster in practice though. The answer? I don't know - other than saying a reformed Europe, which is such a bland statement as to be worthless! That's what our leaders are paid to figure out. While they mess things up though, fiascos like the PIGS are inevitable. Imo, if you don't want political union with europe ukip is the only answer as yet. Labour and conservatives "leaders"are both moving to political union slowly but surely...no matter what they are promising its in their personal interest....behind the scenes they are bought and paid for, as are we.
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Post by harryburrows on Jun 27, 2015 18:46:56 GMT
Make sure you choose a politically neutral grim reaper. Europe is in crisis just now - and no one seems to know what the solution is. Fortress Britannia as advocated by UKIP isn't, IMO, the answer, nor is full political union which Eurocrats see as the solution to the Euros woes. It may be in theory, but then again Marx looks good in a book. A disaster in practice though. The answer? I don't know - other than saying a reformed Europe, which is such a bland statement as to be worthless! That's what our leaders are paid to figure out. While they mess things up though, fiascos like the PIGS are inevitable. Imo, if you don't want political union with europe ukip is the only answer as yet. Labour and conservatives "leaders"are both moving to political union slowly but surely...no matter what they are promising its in their personal interest....behind the scenes they are bought and paid for, as are we. No political party could sell EU political union to the British people
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 27, 2015 18:50:39 GMT
Don't need to sell it , it's already happening. Just do nothing , vote to stay in , in the referendum and we have had it, given our democracy and control away. We will be a part of the United States of Europe, taken for a ride by our political masters ,as net contributors.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2015 20:05:56 GMT
Imo, if you don't want political union with europe ukip is the only answer as yet. Labour and conservatives "leaders"are both moving to political union slowly but surely...no matter what they are promising its in their personal interest....behind the scenes they are bought and paid for, as are we. No political party could sell EU political union to the British people They won't need to Harry, they will do what they always do and tell us when it's too late to back away , after the ground work has been done
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Post by harryburrows on Jun 27, 2015 20:19:31 GMT
No political party could sell EU political union to the British people They won't need to Harry, they will do what they always do and tell us when it's too late to back away , after the ground work has been done Mate any suggestion of Britain abandoning our system of government would create a constitutional crisis . The queen wouldn't allow it , the electorate wouldn't allow it
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2015 20:29:41 GMT
They won't need to Harry, they will do what they always do and tell us when it's too late to back away , after the ground work has been done Mate any suggestion of Britain abandoning our system of government would create a constitutional crisis . The queen wouldn't allow it , the electorate wouldn't allow it You have too much faith in those politicians Harry.....since when did they do things honestly
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Post by harryburrows on Jun 27, 2015 20:30:46 GMT
Mate any suggestion of Britain abandoning our system of government would create a constitutional crisis . The queen wouldn't allow it , the electorate wouldn't allow it You have too much faith in those politicians Harry.....since when did they do things honestly Won't happen . Fact
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2015 20:40:20 GMT
You have too much faith in those politicians Harry.....since when did they do things honestly Won't happen . Fact It won't happen in a straight forward way, they will create a bullshit method of convincing us like errrr.....filling blighty full of Europeans...let them breed like fuck first
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Jun 27, 2015 21:06:55 GMT
You have too much faith in those politicians Harry.....since when did they do things honestly Won't happen . Fact Bit by bit, piece by piece, our power is being eroded. It's only a matter of time before our constitution (not that we have one) will be irrelevant.
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Post by harryburrows on Jun 27, 2015 21:12:43 GMT
Bit by bit, piece by piece, our power is being eroded. It's only a matter of time before our constitution (not that we have one) will be irrelevant. It's , I agree . But a full political / economic union is a quantum leap , it won't happen
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Jun 27, 2015 21:14:44 GMT
Bit by bit, piece by piece, our power is being eroded. It's only a matter of time before our constitution (not that we have one) will be irrelevant. It's , I agree . But a full political / economic union is a quantum leap , it won't happen It's all down to timescale; take the long view and it will not be a quantum leap.
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