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Post by Squeekster on Jan 2, 2015 15:53:07 GMT
Firstly it is not the fault of the officials that the PL has now got around 4/5/6 elite clubs who are richer than the rest and have more influence. Secondly it is also not their fault that these clubs' players/managers/chairman attempt to put pressure on them for favourable decisions. Whether the officials are in awe of the top clubs is difficult to prove but we are where we are, if we want to eliminate mistakes or possible bias then bring in video technology. Referee's should remain neutral and not allow any pressure from big clubs on or off the pitch and why do they not tell players like Rooney to piss off when they question every single decision they make against them?
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Post by ukcstokie on Jan 2, 2015 17:01:56 GMT
Just what do the professional refs do all week? They will quite often have one (maybe two) games each week - and obviously they have fitness work to do each day - but the rest of the time?
Maybe they should try meeting up for a couple of days per week and reviewing each of the key decisions from the weekend before. Maybe even try and agree what the correct application of the law is so that we can get some consistency.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2015 17:20:53 GMT
Trouble is I don't see a point in them coming in front of the cameras at the end of the game to explain their decisions. Take yesterday for example,the only reason why Oliver didn't give a penalty can be is that he thought Smalling was too close to Crouch and that he couldn't react quick enough to move his hands out of the way. How many of you lot would feel better for hearing Oliver say that???? I know I wouldn't because it is quite literally bollocks.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2015 17:29:48 GMT
Firstly it is not the fault of the officials that the PL has now got around 4/5/6 elite clubs who are richer than the rest and have more influence. Secondly it is also not their fault that these clubs' players/managers/chairman attempt to put pressure on them for favourable decisions. Whether the officials are in awe of the top clubs is difficult to prove but we are where we are, if we want to eliminate mistakes or possible bias then bring in video technology. Your first point : What has that got to do with it? Your second point : What has that got to do with it?
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Post by Billy the kid on Jan 2, 2015 17:38:31 GMT
The biggest problem today is that every decision can be replayed, paused, slowed down and rewound. Why can we not all just agree the ref doesn't have a father, and move on? Sometimes I have to admit I hate this brand of Premier League supporter. When we were in the Championship we didn't have access to the media as we do today, and life was so much easier to have a list of bastards, Rob Stiles et al. We are not going down, and we are not going to win the league. Just chill and be safe in the knowledge that if all was fair we would have beat the Shit.
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Post by onionman on Jan 2, 2015 17:43:20 GMT
Just what do the professional refs do all week? They will quite often have one (maybe two) games each week - and obviously they have fitness work to do each day - but the rest of the time? Maybe they should try meeting up for a couple of days per week and reviewing each of the key decisions from the weekend before. Maybe even try and agree what the correct application of the law is so that we can get some consistency. They go for a coffee morning at Michael Oliver's house, where Mrs Oliver (also a referee) makes biscuits and the refs sit around swapping anecdotes about the time they refused to be swayed by the angry Stoke crowd, and how that nasty Ryan Shawcross is always pulling shirts, and how that nice Steven Gerrard gave them a signed shirt for their birthday.
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Post by geoff321 on Jan 2, 2015 18:03:56 GMT
Did Oliver fail to award a penalty because:
He is a secret United supporter?
He hates Stoke City?
Because of media reaction?
Because of his bosses reaction?
Because he wasn't sure?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2015 18:06:51 GMT
Did Oliver fail to award a penalty because: He is a secret United supporter? He hates Stoke City? Because of media reaction? Because of his bosses reaction? Because he wasn't sure? I think the answer is a mixture of all of those Geoffrey
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Post by geoff321 on Jan 2, 2015 18:09:45 GMT
In that case sid the very big decisions have to be taken out of their hands.
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Post by onionman on Jan 2, 2015 18:16:59 GMT
Did Oliver fail to award a penalty because: He is a secret United supporter? He hates Stoke City? Because of media reaction? Because of his bosses reaction? Because he wasn't sure? Because he is an ambitious career referee, who knows that to continue climbing the ladder it is safest to give the benefit of the doubt to Man United over Stoke. It is better for his career to upset Mark Hughes than Louis Van Gaal. Just as he knew it was good for his career to punish Ryan Shawcross for holding at a corner against Swansea, but probably not so good for his career to punish Phil Jones for holding at numerous corners against Stoke.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2015 18:17:47 GMT
In that case sid the very big decisions have to be taken out of their hands. I understand where you're coming from Geoff and my tongue was planted firmly in my cheek with that reply,but there is definitely a big club bias amongst referees. Too many big decisions have gone against the so called lesser clubs for it to be just coincidence now and officials seem to be getting more and more big decisions wrong by the week now. My earlier point was that I don't see the need for ref's to be held accountable because it doesn't change anything and they would only come out and say what we expect them to say because they cannot say anything else really,can they? Oliver obviously believed that Smalling was too close to Crouch yesterday but I'd bet as much money as I currently have that if he had to make that decision at the other end of the pitch,his decision would have been a totally different one.
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Post by ukcstokie on Jan 2, 2015 18:19:09 GMT
Did Oliver fail to award a penalty because: He is a secret United supporter? He hates Stoke City? Because of media reaction? Because of his bosses reaction? Because he wasn't sure? Probably because he knows he has to be really certain that it was a penalty because it's against one of the top sides. He get's it wrong in that situation and he's on the back pages for the next 3 or 4 days and Sky will be showing reruns with analysis several times a day. If he misses a penalty against Stoke (or our peers) then it will be the manager moaning on the interview for 25 seconds and that will be it.
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Post by geoff321 on Jan 2, 2015 18:20:43 GMT
You mean om this guarantees him United games in future?
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Post by geoff321 on Jan 2, 2015 18:26:45 GMT
A penalty award is in reality the award of a goal and therefore I think they should refer all penalty decisions to the 4th official who could have the benefit of a replay, would take a matter of seconds.
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Post by onionman on Jan 2, 2015 18:29:47 GMT
You mean om this guarantees him United games in future? He's playing a percentages game. He knows if he makes a mistake that upsets Man United he will get pilloried for days and quite likely not get to ref any of their games in the future. Upset too many of the big boys on a regular basis and he won't ever get to ref a cup final or be named as England's World Cup ref. Alternatively, as Ukcstokie says, he knows if he upsets Mark Hughes it will be immediately forgotten by everyone except Stoke fans. So for a career referee like Oliver, if there's any doubt, he will come down in favour of the big club. It's not a neutral decision-making process.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2015 18:31:35 GMT
A penalty award is in reality the award of a goal and therefore I think they should refer all penalty decisions to the 4th official who could have the benefit of a replay, would take a matter of seconds. That still wouldn't guarantee decisions being correctly given though Geoff because it's still open to interpretation. Especially ones like yesterday's,the problem lies in the rules and nobody really knowing what should be classed as handball or what shouldn't.
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Post by bmstoke on Jan 2, 2015 18:34:38 GMT
A penalty award is in reality the award of a goal and therefore I think they should refer all penalty decisions to the 4th official who could have the benefit of a replay, would take a matter of seconds. You've obviously never witnessed a Jon Walters penalty then
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2015 21:41:09 GMT
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I will sit there all day to see a fair result. Video evidence is the only way out of this, whether the officials like it or not! Every week mistakes are made in virtually every game. Get it sorted you clowns!
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Post by tuum on Jan 3, 2015 6:28:42 GMT
Is a lot of it in the eye of the beholder? Bias I mean. We've had some favourable decisions as well as crap ones this season so the old 'it balances itself' comes into play at least to some degree. I'm not sure publicly hanging them out to dry will help. It might dissuade a referee from making a big decision from fear of the barracking they will get from all sides if they get it wrong. Video evidence surely is the way forward if any form of accountability is introduced? Either way there will be a huge furore over every incident as the rules of what is and isn't a foul are muddy at best. I can see that throwing up plenty of controversy. Personally (and I'm probably in the minority here) I wouldn't change a thing. I think a dodgy decision is all part of the entertainment value and I would say we've benefitted from it in both ways; Delap getting sent off against city comes to mind. That game was decided by the red card. Your idea of entertainment and mine must be quite different then. If Oliver had done his job correctly we would more than likely have gone on to get all 3 points and record a well earned win against one of the big boys. Oliver once again screws up. He needs to be sent to a rest home with the likes of Wiley, Atkinson and Dean; they can while away their final hours together playing cribbage or something similar, totally useless (and what's worse BIASED) tosspots all of them. Video technology can't come in soon enough for me and it will (note not should) help to reduce this constant 'referee makes dodgy decision' crap that only gets in the way of discussing the actual game itself. Plus while we are on the subject of useless officials the liners need to be younger, fitter and faster at taking decisions. They also need to go on a flag waving course too. The one down our side (Novus) was totally useless AGAIN yesterday. Walters was flattened at one stage and he just stood and stared....unbelievable. He couldn't even keep up with play which should be a pretty fundamental requirement at this level. I tried to both like and dislike this post but it wouldn't let me do both. Like the comments about the linos. They are pretty shit at a lot of stuff that goes on 5 yds in front of them. I dislike the video ref idea. I am happy to accept that refs are wrong occasionally and that things do even themselves out (more or less). We get breaks from refs just like other sides. Dodgy decisions are part of the game and are a part of the post match discussion..it allows fans of the same team to bond in the pub in the knowledge that they may have been shafted. I am not a football purist and have no interest in discussing the finer elements of skill of the respective teams. I will happily purr about how great Stoke were but grudging admiration is the limit of my adulation for the opposition. My perception that we were robbed by the ref helps me to accept the injustice of the draw or defeat.
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Post by tuum on Jan 3, 2015 8:33:41 GMT
A penalty award is in reality the award of a goal and therefore I think they should refer all penalty decisions to the 4th official who could have the benefit of a replay, would take a matter of seconds. I understand why people want this and it would cut out a lot of grief but so what? There is a website that shows the supposed implications of toss refereeing decisions. It would be interesting to see where teams are in the 'perfect' refereeing table. Every time I looked in the past the teams were +/- 2 places where they were in the current 'shite refereeing' table. There was not a lot of difference which suggests that things do even themselves out. It shouldn't be too difficult for some bright young spark to research this alleged bias and see what the effect is. This might be an interesting PhD study for a Maths graduate or even a psychology student.
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Post by Squeekster on Jan 3, 2015 11:33:35 GMT
In that case sid the very big decisions have to be taken out of their hands. Geoff can you explain why you can appeal a red card,the ref has sent the player off as in his opinion it's a red. It get over turned because it's deemed he made a mistake. Gary Cahil kicks and then stamps on Harry Kane the ref says he saw this and does nothing but clearly has made a mistake so why can't the FA give a retrospective ban?
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Post by geoff321 on Jan 3, 2015 12:46:49 GMT
I'm not sure Squeekster why the FA have decided not to impose a retrospective ban, I guess you are saying it shows big club bias.
Graham Poll in the Daily Mail has highlighted a significant number of major errors by officials in recent weeks and they don't seem too point to a favouring of the bigger clubs, one example he mentions is Walters escaping a red card against Everton.
Like tuum says in his post you can probably show bad decisions even themselves out over the course of a season and therefore if fans feel aggrieved so what?
The problem with leaving things as they are though is that if millions of TV viewers had been watching the Liverpool/Leicester game they would all know of the errors, but the officials wouldn't, which seems slightly crazy.
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Post by tazi on Jan 3, 2015 12:57:45 GMT
The most annoying thing is to think that I still contribute towards it.
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