|
Post by salopstick on Oct 25, 2014 13:48:10 GMT
~Hate to say this, charismatic soundbyte leaders like Farage are just what the Greens don't believe in - but if they had one, they'd probably be up there debating. All the same I expect the Greens to be pushing on long after UKIP have crashed and bunred or gone in with the Tories, if only because the Greens deal with the world as it is, not as their grandparents would love it to have been... Fair point Sal...but I can't help thinking if someone like Caroline Lucas was leading the Labour Party right now, the election would be a foregone conclusion. And most people think short term so parties have to think in the here and now to get votes. Solve the short term issues, campaign on short term issues. Then you have a platform to think and act long term. Ukip don't have a long term plan so they concentrate on short term out of EU this approach is working for them. Principals don't win elections. The greens need an injection of charisma if they are to get taken seriously by the majority of the population
|
|
|
Post by wizzardofdribble on Oct 25, 2014 14:00:53 GMT
There's never been a better time for The Green Party. The Liberal Democrats are a busted flush...nobody trusts them anymore . They'd shag anyone politically.
The Conservatives can't move to the Right. .that ground is occupied by UKIP and they can't move to the Left because that ground is occupied by Labour.
Labour are offering virtually the same as The Tories..nothing new there.
Step forward The Greens..the New Protest Party..make David Beckham Leader with that fit looking weather bird(1) as his deputy...Go back to your constituencies & prepare for Government ;-)
1. Lucy Verasama
|
|
|
Post by kbillyh on Oct 25, 2014 17:08:13 GMT
Face facts. The green party will never be embraced by the working class or those that would benefit most from their policies, i.e the 99%
Why? Because the seeds are planted by those who wish to conserve the status quo through the media of which they control. Just mention the greens and an instant reaction will be that of dismissal without actually any understanding of their policies in any way shape or form. It's easier to ridicule than understand and they exploit this to the max.
Greens = Swampy, tree huggers, do-gooders, loony lefties, weird beards, lesbo Greenham common types, sandal wearing hippies etc etc etc.
That's why they will not be given a platform to debate prior to the general election, They are shit scared of people waking up to the fact that their preconceptions may have been wrong.
|
|
|
Post by salopstick on Oct 25, 2014 19:05:09 GMT
Face facts. The green party will never be embraced by the working class or those that would benefit most from their policies, i.e the 99% Why? Because the seeds are planted by those who wish to conserve the status quo through the media of which they control. Just mention the greens and an instant reaction will be that of dismissal without actually any understanding of their policies in any way shape or form. It's easier to ridicule than understand and they exploit this to the max. Greens = Swampy, tree huggers, do-gooders, loony lefties, weird beards, lesbo Greenham common types, sandal wearing hippies etc etc etc. That's why they will not be given a platform to debate prior to the general election, They are shit scared of people waking up to the fact that their preconceptions may have been wrong. to be honest though the greens bring some of those attitudes on them selves.
|
|
|
Post by wizzardofdribble on Oct 25, 2014 20:57:26 GMT
If the Greens want to win more votes then they need to simplify their policies and offer the electorate something that they really want. Free plastic toys for their children for example, or T-Shirts with big letters on for their parents and a Big Mac meal with extra fries for those that vote Green.
This is the sort of thing people want, not all that bollocks about renewable energy sources and biotechnology. Common sense policies. More prisons. Repatriation of taxi drivers. Ritual stoning & public floggings. Restoration of the Death Penalty. Euthanasia of benefit claimants. Recycling of the obese.
Vote Green.
|
|
|
Post by salopstick on Oct 25, 2014 21:03:31 GMT
If the Greens want to win more votes then they need to simplify their policies and offer the electorate something that they really want. Free plastic toys for their children for example, or T-Shirts with big letters on for their parents and a Big Mac meal with extra fries for those that vote Green. This is the sort of thing people want, not all that bollocks about renewable energy sources and biotechnology. Common sense policies. More prisons. Repatriation of taxi drivers. Ritual stoning & public floggings. Restoration of the Death Penalty. Euthanasia of benefit claimants. Recycling of the obese. Vote Green. And maybe an MP who spends more time on her constituents than getting arrested protesting
|
|
|
Post by wizzardofdribble on Oct 25, 2014 21:17:44 GMT
And found Not Guilty (after a trial in Brighton Magistrates) of two charges. ..Wilful Obstruction of a Public Highway and breaching an Order under Section 14 of the Public Order Act.
Although I take your point. ..not the best advert.
|
|
|
Post by salopstick on Oct 26, 2014 8:04:38 GMT
And found Not Guilty (after a trial in Brighton Magistrates) of two charges. ..Wilful Obstruction of a Public Highway and breaching an Order under Section 14 of the Public Order Act. Although I take your point. ..not the best advert. Exactly If they want to be mainstream they have to act slightly less anarchist than they do
|
|
|
Post by kbillyh on Oct 26, 2014 9:11:22 GMT
Yes of course, the Greens should remain quite and behave themselves in the face of corruption and wrongdoing.
Sit down, shat up. Sit down, shat up.
The parameters are in place for them in current politics for them to exercise their right to participate and demonstrate legally without the need to be seen or heard.
If only they would shut up about things they may get a voice.
|
|
|
Post by wizzardofdribble on Oct 26, 2014 9:11:23 GMT
And found Not Guilty (after a trial in Brighton Magistrates) of two charges. ..Wilful Obstruction of a Public Highway and breaching an Order under Section 14 of the Public Order Act. Although I take your point. ..not the best advert. Exactly If they want to be mainstream they have to act slightly less anarchist than they do Agreed. Being a bit irresponsible is a sign of (political) immaturity. They now need to show they are serious and refrain from engaging in the usual divisive political debate. That will win them votes..long term.
|
|
|
Post by jonah77 on Oct 26, 2014 9:42:12 GMT
The problem is that the vast majority of people are more concerned with the economy,not ecology.The perceived threat to peoples wallet from immigrants or Europe far outweighs any fear of envoiromental disaster. Yeah it's a shame that such and such a species is dying out or the global temprature is rising but the all important questions are can i still pay my mortgage and how much is the cost of fuel going up.
|
|
|
Post by wizzardofdribble on Oct 26, 2014 10:27:45 GMT
The problem is that the vast majority of people are more concerned with the economy,not ecology.The perceived threat to peoples wallet from immigrants or Europe far outweighs any fear of envoiromental disaster. Yeah it's a shame that such and such a species is dying out or the global temprature is rising but the all important questions are can i still pay my mortgage and how much is the cost of fuel going up. That's more to do with the way the Green Party are perceived though. They do actually have fiscal & monetary policies but they aren't very good at 'spin'. Public relations and communications is something they need to work on, as I think Salop & myself were saying..in a roundabout way.
|
|
|
Post by kbillyh on Oct 26, 2014 14:48:22 GMT
The problem is that the vast majority of people are more concerned with the economy,not ecology.The perceived threat to peoples wallet from immigrants or Europe far outweighs any fear of envoiromental disaster. Yeah it's a shame that such and such a species is dying out or the global temprature is rising but the all important questions are can i still pay my mortgage and how much is the cost of fuel going up. That's more to do with the way the Green Party are perceived though. They do actually have fiscal & monetary policies but they aren't very good at 'spin'. Public relations and communications is something they need to work on, as I think Salop & myself were saying..in a roundabout way. Yes it seems to get a slot in the modern political arena you need to buy a newspaper group, or be in the pocket of a newspaper group owner. Democracy in action.
|
|
|
Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 26, 2014 15:06:46 GMT
That's more to do with the way the Green Party are perceived though. They do actually have fiscal & monetary policies but they aren't very good at 'spin'. Public relations and communications is something they need to work on, as I think Salop & myself were saying..in a roundabout way. Yes it seems to get a slot in the modern political arena you need to buy a newspaper group, or be in the pocket of a newspaper group owner. Democracy in action. Precisely and it seems regardless of any genuine policies in place. The right wing owned press are frankly shit scared of the likes of the Greens and the TUSC.
|
|
|
Post by salopstick on Oct 26, 2014 16:14:18 GMT
Yes of course, the Greens should remain quite and behave themselves in the face of corruption and wrongdoing. Sit down, shat up. Sit down, shat up. The parameters are in place for them in current politics for them to exercise their right to participate and demonstrate legally without the need to be seen or heard. If only they would shut up about things they may get a voice. UKIP didn't shut up. If you speak in the right way your voice will be heard metaphorically speaking If it means making short term compromises to get the message out. Surely a good thing
|
|
|
Post by wizzardofdribble on Oct 26, 2014 18:30:57 GMT
That's more to do with the way the Green Party are perceived though. They do actually have fiscal & monetary policies but they aren't very good at 'spin'. Public relations and communications is something they need to work on, as I think Salop & myself were saying..in a roundabout way. Yes it seems to get a slot in the modern political arena you need to buy a newspaper group, or be in the pocket of a newspaper group owner. Democracy in action. Newspaper Barons & Media Moguls like Murdoch want tame politicians & political parties. Most of these owners are foreigners.Quite ironic given there stance on immigration. The Green Party are seen as a threat to the staus quo & will therefore recieve an enormous amount of shit thrown in their direction in the run up to the General Election. Shoot the messenger & people will ignore the message. Works everytime.
|
|
|
Post by harryburrows on Oct 26, 2014 18:36:57 GMT
The greens are against nuclear power AND fracking AND fossil fuels. They live in a left wing dreamworld where the country is powered by a few solar panels and a million expensive windmills which don't work when the wind is strong. I was in Brighton last week - what a fucking dump it has become. I've never seen so many beggars in a town centre, that's what you get when you encourage a something for nothing culture. they will be the first to moan when their bread and yogurt makers stop working
|
|
|
Post by jonah77 on Oct 26, 2014 19:11:56 GMT
Yes it seems to get a slot in the modern political arena you need to buy a newspaper group, or be in the pocket of a newspaper group owner. Democracy in action. Newspaper Barons & Media Moguls like Murdoch want tame politicians & political parties. Most of these owners are foreigners.Quite ironic given there stance on immigration. The Green Party are seen as a threat to the staus quo & will therefore recieve an enormous amount of shit thrown in their direction in the run up to the General Election. Shoot the messenger & people will ignore the message. Works everytime. I really don't think the Greens will receive enormous amounts of shit, in fact I think they'll barely get a mention. Mainly because they're pretty irrelevant to most people.
|
|
|
Post by robstokie on Oct 26, 2014 19:29:26 GMT
Newspaper Barons & Media Moguls like Murdoch want tame politicians & political parties. Most of these owners are foreigners.Quite ironic given there stance on immigration. The Green Party are seen as a threat to the staus quo & will therefore recieve an enormous amount of shit thrown in their direction in the run up to the General Election. Shoot the messenger & people will ignore the message. Works everytime. I really don't think the Greens will receive enormous amounts of shit, in fact I think they'll barely get a mention. Mainly because they're pretty irrelevant to most people. Basically, the reason why most people will not look at the Green Party is because they are a bunch of idealistic do-gooders whose policies are so out of touch with what the common man wants, whereas UKIP (or, more accurately, Farage) knows what the majority want to hear and then says it, his persona of liking a pint and a fag helps and all, whereas Green Party officials in kaftans eating vegan yogurt and doing yoga is not exactly relevant to voters. Either way, no-one will really break the stranglehold on politics that Labour and the Tories have.
|
|
|
Post by wizzardofdribble on Oct 26, 2014 19:43:40 GMT
Microbiotic suits mate..not kaftans..very Oldskool and if you saw some of the birds in my yoga class ;-)
|
|
|
Post by kbillyh on Oct 26, 2014 20:29:01 GMT
I really don't think the Greens will receive enormous amounts of shit, in fact I think they'll barely get a mention. Mainly because they're pretty irrelevant to most people. Basically, the reason why most people will not look at the Green Party is because they are a bunch of idealistic do-gooders whose policies are so out of touch with what the common man wants, whereas UKIP (or, more accurately, Farage) knows what the majority want to hear and then says it, his persona of liking a pint and a fag helps and all, whereas Green Party officials in kaftans eating vegan yogurt and doing yoga is not exactly relevant to voters. Either way, no-one will really break the stranglehold on politics that Labour and the Tories have. "bunch of idealistic do-gooders whose policies are so out of touch with what the common man wants" Do you know their policies? "Green Party officials in kaftans eating vegan yogurt and doing yoga" Where does this perception come from? Not having a go or owt, i was just wondering.
|
|
|
Post by kbillyh on Oct 26, 2014 20:35:07 GMT
Newspaper Barons & Media Moguls like Murdoch want tame politicians & political parties. Most of these owners are foreigners.Quite ironic given there stance on immigration. The Green Party are seen as a threat to the staus quo & will therefore recieve an enormous amount of shit thrown in their direction in the run up to the General Election. Shoot the messenger & people will ignore the message. Works everytime. I really don't think the Greens will receive enormous amounts of shit, in fact I think they'll barely get a mention. Mainly because they're pretty irrelevant to most people. Happened to browse the Mail today and there was a 2 page spread on "The Green Blob".... an incredibly transparent piece of propaganda demonising any kind of subsidy for renewables by claiming dark Green forces are at work within the British Establishment. Had a b-movie type graphic accompanying it........staring the British Tax payers as the victims. Some people believe this shit.
|
|
|
Post by kbillyh on Oct 26, 2014 20:39:39 GMT
Yes of course, the Greens should remain quite and behave themselves in the face of corruption and wrongdoing. Sit down, shat up. Sit down, shat up. The parameters are in place for them in current politics for them to exercise their right to participate and demonstrate legally without the need to be seen or heard. If only they would shut up about things they may get a voice. UKIP didn't shut up. If you speak in the right way your voice will be heard metaphorically speaking If it means making short term compromises to get the message out. Surely a good thing First they ignore you............ unless it suits their agenda. We are clearly being primed for a Tory/Ukip coalition.
|
|
|
Post by dutchstokie on Oct 26, 2014 20:46:27 GMT
If the Greens want to win more votes then they need to simplify their policies and offer the electorate something that they really want. Free plastic toys for their children for example, or T-Shirts with big letters on for their parents and a Big Mac meal with extra fries for those that vote Green. This is the sort of thing people want, not all that bollocks about renewable energy sources and biotechnology. Common sense policies. More prisons. Repatriation of taxi drivers. Ritual stoning & public floggings. Restoration of the Death Penalty. Euthanasia of benefit claimants. Recycling of the obese. Vote Green. SOLD !!! Wheres that ballot paper..?
|
|
|
Post by robstokie on Oct 26, 2014 20:46:31 GMT
Basically, the reason why most people will not look at the Green Party is because they are a bunch of idealistic do-gooders whose policies are so out of touch with what the common man wants, whereas UKIP (or, more accurately, Farage) knows what the majority want to hear and then says it, his persona of liking a pint and a fag helps and all, whereas Green Party officials in kaftans eating vegan yogurt and doing yoga is not exactly relevant to voters. Either way, no-one will really break the stranglehold on politics that Labour and the Tories have. "bunch of idealistic do-gooders whose policies are so out of touch with what the common man wants" Do you know their policies? "Green Party officials in kaftans eating vegan yogurt and doing yoga" Where does this perception come from? Not having a go or owt, i was just wondering. 1. The greens do not talk about the issues that 99% of voters talk about on a daily basis, such as immigration and the EU. Instead, they keep on going on about turbines, tranny toilets and tree-hugging. 2. Whereas UKIP, another minority party, albeit a lot bigger, can send out a leader in Nigel Farage who has a 'guy down the pub' charm and an ability to connect with the voter, The Greens don't seem to ever have had a leader who can connect in a similar way, plus all green members/activists I have seen are a bit 'radical' and somewhat out of touch with the rest of society (for example, a lot of green activists (not all by any means) are students from middle class homes, most of whom don't have a clue how the world really works). On the other hand, the Greens are forthright and are devoted to what they feel is right, which I personally like (even thugh I don't agree with their policies), whereas a lot (most) of politicians are corrupt fuckers who will shake hands with fat-cats, despots and bend the rules for their high-end mates purely for personal gain.
|
|
|
Post by dutchstokie on Oct 26, 2014 20:54:27 GMT
"bunch of idealistic do-gooders whose policies are so out of touch with what the common man wants" Do you know their policies? "Green Party officials in kaftans eating vegan yogurt and doing yoga" Where does this perception come from? Not having a go or owt, i was just wondering. 1. The greens do not talk about the issues that 99% of voters talk about on a daily basis, such as immigration and the EU. Instead, they keep on going on about turbines, tranny toilets and tree-hugging. 2. Whereas UKIP, another minority party, albeit a lot bigger, can send out a leader in Nigel Farage who has a 'guy down the pub' charm and an ability to connect with the voter, The Greens don't seem to ever have had a leader who can connect in a similar way, plus all green members/activists I have seen are a bit 'radical' and somewhat out of touch with the rest of society (for example, a lot of green activists (not all by any means) are students from middle class homes, most of whom don't have a clue how the world really works). On the other hand, the Greens are forthright and are devoted to what they feel is right, which I personally like (even thugh I don't agree with their policies), whereas a lot (most) of politicians are corrupt fuckers who will shake hands with fat-cats, despots and bend the rules for their high-end mates purely for personal gain. A lot or most politicians are corrupt....??? Theyre ALL on the fuckin fiddle in some shape and anyone who thinks otherwise is being naive in the extreme Ever seen a poor politician....??? Shysters the lot of 'em !
|
|
|
Post by kbillyh on Oct 26, 2014 20:57:44 GMT
"bunch of idealistic do-gooders whose policies are so out of touch with what the common man wants" Do you know their policies? "Green Party officials in kaftans eating vegan yogurt and doing yoga" Where does this perception come from? Not having a go or owt, i was just wondering. 1. The greens do not talk about the issues that 99% of voters talk about on a daily basis, such as immigration and the EU. Instead, they keep on going on about turbines, tranny toilets and tree-hugging. 2. Whereas UKIP, another minority party, albeit a lot bigger, can send out a leader in Nigel Farage who has a 'guy down the pub' charm and an ability to connect with the voter, The Greens don't seem to ever have had a leader who can connect in a similar way, plus all green members/activists I have seen are a bit 'radical' and somewhat out of touch with the rest of society (for example, a lot of green activists (not all by any means) are students from middle class homes, most of whom don't have a clue how the world really works). On the other hand, the Greens are forthright and are devoted to what they feel is right, which I personally like (even thugh I don't agree with their policies), whereas a lot (most) of politicians are corrupt fuckers who will shake hands with fat-cats, despots and bend the rules for their high-end mates purely for personal gain. Fair enough mate. To be fair though the 99% you mention talk about the policies they read about in the newspapers or hear on the news and at the moment they are being bombarded with stories about immigration, benefit scroungers, E.U etc etc. The agenda is set for them. You say you don't agree with their policies and whereas i agree they do go on about turbines a lot, i'm not sure you have been given the correct information in assuming their policies include "tranny toilets" or "tree hugging". Sounding a bit Jeremy Clarkson there.
|
|
|
Post by robstokie on Oct 26, 2014 20:59:35 GMT
1. The greens do not talk about the issues that 99% of voters talk about on a daily basis, such as immigration and the EU. Instead, they keep on going on about turbines, tranny toilets and tree-hugging. 2. Whereas UKIP, another minority party, albeit a lot bigger, can send out a leader in Nigel Farage who has a 'guy down the pub' charm and an ability to connect with the voter, The Greens don't seem to ever have had a leader who can connect in a similar way, plus all green members/activists I have seen are a bit 'radical' and somewhat out of touch with the rest of society (for example, a lot of green activists (not all by any means) are students from middle class homes, most of whom don't have a clue how the world really works). On the other hand, the Greens are forthright and are devoted to what they feel is right, which I personally like (even thugh I don't agree with their policies), whereas a lot (most) of politicians are corrupt fuckers [/b]who will shake hands with fat-cats, despots and bend the rules for their high-end mates purely for personal gain. [/quote] A lot or most politicians are corrupt....??? Theyre ALL on the fuckin fiddle in some shape and anyone who thinks otherwise is being naive in the extreme Ever seen a poor politician....??? Shysters the lot of 'em ! [/quote] I was expressing my opinions in a diplomatic and intellectual manner but yes, they're all diddling the system or re-routing how the system works for personal gain.
|
|
|
Post by salopstick on Oct 26, 2014 22:45:00 GMT
1. The greens do not talk about the issues that 99% of voters talk about on a daily basis, such as immigration and the EU. Instead, they keep on going on about turbines, tranny toilets and tree-hugging. 2. Whereas UKIP, another minority party, albeit a lot bigger, can send out a leader in Nigel Farage who has a 'guy down the pub' charm and an ability to connect with the voter, The Greens don't seem to ever have had a leader who can connect in a similar way, plus all green members/activists I have seen are a bit 'radical' and somewhat out of touch with the rest of society (for example, a lot of green activists (not all by any means) are students from middle class homes, most of whom don't have a clue how the world really works). On the other hand, the Greens are forthright and are devoted to what they feel is right, which I personally like (even thugh I don't agree with their policies), whereas a lot (most) of politicians are corrupt fuckers who will shake hands with fat-cats, despots and bend the rules for their high-end mates purely for personal gain. A lot or most politicians are corrupt....??? Theyre ALL on the fuckin fiddle in some shape and anyone who thinks otherwise is being naive in the extreme Ever seen a poor politician....??? Shysters the lot of 'em ! Caroline Lucas cost taxpayers 300k per year for her 10 years as a MEP
|
|
|
Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 27, 2014 0:05:22 GMT
A lot or most politicians are corrupt....??? Theyre ALL on the fuckin fiddle in some shape and anyone who thinks otherwise is being naive in the extreme Ever seen a poor politician....??? Shysters the lot of 'em ! Caroline Lucas cost taxpayers 300k per year for her 10 years as a MEP Would you like to Google the figures for Farage? Is that the best you can do? Apologies...I only ask because you claim to have an open mind on these matters.
|
|