|
Post by dozintheseventees on Oct 20, 2014 13:30:10 GMT
I think we should cop it sweet. He's entitled to his opinion and that's that. Would be fair comment if it weren't for the fact that he's a Season Ticket holding Swansea fan. He can have an opinion but, if he's allowed to air it with such venom on national TV then we should send a 'biased' Stoke City fanatic to balance up the debate. Obviously I'm joking but you see the point.
|
|
|
Post by JoeinOz on Oct 20, 2014 13:31:46 GMT
I think we should cop it sweet. He's entitled to his opinion and that's that. Would be fair comment if it weren't for the fact that he's a Season Ticket holding Swansea fan. He can have an opinion but, if he's allowed to air it with such venom on national TV then we should send a 'biased' Stoke City fanatic to balance up the debate. Obviously I'm joking but you see the point. I do see your point. I just don't think it's worth getting so upset over a comment which wasn't groundless.
|
|
|
Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 20, 2014 13:34:10 GMT
Why would we be doing anything about Monk, didn't Hughes pretty much let him of in his own interview?
|
|
|
Post by dozintheseventees on Oct 20, 2014 13:37:59 GMT
Would be fair comment if it weren't for the fact that he's a Season Ticket holding Swansea fan. He can have an opinion but, if he's allowed to air it with such venom on national TV then we should send a 'biased' Stoke City fanatic to balance up the debate. Obviously I'm joking but you see the point. I do see your point. I just don't think it's worth getting so upset over a comment which wasn't groundless. No it wasn't groundless Joe hence the several threads and very many posts this morning and, it's clear, that we Stoke fans can't even agree. However, his comments were 'over the top' in my view when calling Moses a cheat and shouldn't go unchallenged by the very many who don't agree with him. They didn't get to air their opinions on national TV. Hartson clearly spoke, in both content and manner, as a Swansea fan rather than a neutral football pundit.
|
|
|
Post by Gods on Oct 20, 2014 13:38:30 GMT
I think we should cop it sweet. He's entitled to his opinion and that's that. Would be fair comment if it weren't for the fact that he's a Season Ticket holding Swansea fan. He can have an opinion but, if he's allowed to air it with such venom on national TV then we should send a 'biased' Stoke City fanatic to balance up the debate. Obviously I'm joking but you see the point. Yes, an analogy would be if Newsnight on BBC2 were discussing say the European Union with 2 political journalists it would be fine, but if one of them were a card carrying member of say the Conservative Party and unable to park his prejudice at the door then the second journalist would need to be officially linked to the Labour Party in the interest of balance. I guess in the end it comes down to whether you believe Hartson was simply expressing his views as an impartial pundit of if he had let his Swansea City connections crowd in on him. I would suggest from how emotional he got that it was the latter. But just as he can't prove Moses was not unbalanced by the shirt pull/small push then I can't prove he was motivated by his family allegiances to the team in white
|
|
|
Post by JoeinOz on Oct 20, 2014 13:39:26 GMT
I do see your point. I just don't think it's worth getting so upset over a comment which wasn't groundless. No it wasn't groundless Joe hence the several threads and very many posts this morning and, it's clear, that we Stoke fans can't even agree. However, his comments were 'over the top' in my view when calling Moses a cheat and shouldn't go unchallenged by the very many who don't agree with him. They didn't get to air their opinions on national TV. Hartson clearly spoke, in both content and manner, as a Swansea fan rather than a neutral football pundit. I don't mind a bit of straight talking. The test is his response next time a Swansea player cheats.
|
|
|
Post by jeycov on Oct 20, 2014 13:40:27 GMT
Why would we be doing anything about Monk, didn't Hughes pretty much let him of in his own interview? Hughes said that he didn't expect Monk to apologise, he advised him that with experience, he should bite his tongue and choose his words more carefully in the future He did however state that the comment "cheat" was totally unacceptable
|
|
|
Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 20, 2014 13:42:50 GMT
Why would we be doing anything about Monk, didn't Hughes pretty much let him of in his own interview? Hughes said that he didn't expect Monk to apologise, he advised him that with experience, he should bite his tongue and choose his words more carefully in the future He did however state that the comment "cheat" was totally unacceptable Fair enough, I thought he was a little more forgiving than that for some reason.
|
|
|
Post by Gods on Oct 20, 2014 13:45:42 GMT
Why would we be doing anything about Monk, didn't Hughes pretty much let him of in his own interview? Hughes said that he didn't expect Monk to apologise, he advised him that with experience, he should bite his tongue and choose his words more carefully in the future He did however state that the comment "cheat" was totally unacceptable Yes he did. All in all it was far ruder and more condescending than lamely asking for an apology which you won't ever get, well done Sparky
|
|
|
Post by dozintheseventees on Oct 20, 2014 13:51:11 GMT
No it wasn't groundless Joe hence the several threads and very many posts this morning and, it's clear, that we Stoke fans can't even agree. However, his comments were 'over the top' in my view when calling Moses a cheat and shouldn't go unchallenged by the very many who don't agree with him. They didn't get to air their opinions on national TV. Hartson clearly spoke, in both content and manner, as a Swansea fan rather than a neutral football pundit. I don't mind a bit of straight talking. The test is his response next time a Swansea player cheats. It will be very interesting Joe if Monk's reported comments are true. He is reported to have said that, if any player dives in training they are fined and if they do it in a game he won't pick them for the following game. That's Siggurdsson and Bony out for Saturday then.
|
|
|
Post by Clayton Wood on Oct 20, 2014 13:52:37 GMT
Just ban the Beeb from interviews as Fergie did at the Shit. Was against the rules but went on for years there.
|
|
|
Post by JoeinOz on Oct 20, 2014 13:54:50 GMT
I don't mind a bit of straight talking. The test is his response next time a Swansea player cheats. It will be very interesting Joe if Monk's reported comments are true. He is reported to have said that, if any player dives in training they are fined and if they do it in a game he won't pick them for the following game. That's Siggurdsson and Bony out for Saturday then. He made a rod for his own back there. He can't trust footballers to support him because they are too thick.
|
|
|
Post by ukcstokie on Oct 20, 2014 13:55:06 GMT
I've also complained to the BBC. The more complaints they receive, the more seriously they will take the issue. I complained about Hartson's bias and also the fact he was allowed so much time to continue his rant when there were other significant incidents that should have been highlighted e.g. the pull on Crouch's shirt that went unpunished and the excellent winning goal following a 5/6 man passing movement. www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/complain-online/I've tried to make the complaint from the view of any football fan so as we are not just seen as whinging Stoke City The BBC does have a responsibility to give a balanced assessment of incidents like this, if they decide to invite an ex player from just one of the clubs involved, then he should be professional enough to comment in an appropriate way. This is not a live commentary, producers, presenters, guests, they all have time to consider their comments and appropriate language At any point did they mention on MotD that Hartson is actually a fan of Swansea? His views were presented as impartial opinions of an ex-pro, with in reality they're of a Swansea season ticket holder. Shocking.
|
|
|
Post by JoeinOz on Oct 20, 2014 13:56:34 GMT
Just ban the Beeb from interviews as Fergie did at the Shit. Was against the rules but went on for years there. Nah not that bloody mardarse crap. Ferguson made a tit of himself there and looked like a cantankerous stubborn old nutter.
|
|
|
Post by jeycov on Oct 20, 2014 14:05:26 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/complain-online/I've tried to make the complaint from the view of any football fan so as we are not just seen as whinging Stoke City The BBC does have a responsibility to give a balanced assessment of incidents like this, if they decide to invite an ex player from just one of the clubs involved, then he should be professional enough to comment in an appropriate way. This is not a live commentary, producers, presenters, guests, they all have time to consider their comments and appropriate language At any point did they mention on MotD that Hartson is actually a fan of Swansea? His views were presented as impartial opinions of an ex-pro, with in reality they're of a Swansea season ticket holder. Shocking. I think that they did mention Hartsons link with Swansea - Shearer was never going to defend Moses actions, but was also very diplomatic in giving his opinion (that is what he is paid to do) He looked uncomfortable with the biased and damming comments made and quickly made the point that Monk could be making a rod for his own back by saying he would fine / ban any of his players who did such a thing. I don't think that Hartson will be reappearing on the programme any time soon, how about Rory to give a totally professional point of view?
|
|
|
Post by onionman on Oct 20, 2014 14:10:52 GMT
I thought this was excellent from John Percy today, from the Telegraph: www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/11173734/Premier-League-review-John-Terry-reaches-500-game-milestone-and-Joe-Hart-is-vital-to-Manchester-City-cause.htmlSpot of bother for Ryan Shawcross It seems Ryan Shawcross has got more to worry about than Roy Hodgson’s faulty sat-nav ever navigating a route to the Britannia Stadium. After Sunday’s victory over Swansea City, manager Mark Hughes admitted he is growing increasingly concerned that his Stoke captain is being unfairly targeted by referees. The penalty Shawcross conceded was his seventh since the 2008/09 season, earning him the unwanted record of giving away the most spot kicks in the Premier League in that time. Whether it was a penalty or not is an argument that is irrelevant now, although it was notable how Wilfried Bony seemed to have no problems holding off opponents outside the box for most of the afternoon. And if the offence Shawcross was supposedly guilty of applied to other players, we could be looking at more penalties in games than Liverpool's recent Capital One Cup tie against Middlesbrough. But the greater fear for Stoke at this stage is that Shawcross seems to have a reputation in both boxes and officials are fully aware of it. Sky Sports pundits including Jamie Carragher and Kevin Phillips waded in to the debate, insisting referee Michael Oliver was right, and hinting that Shawcross does have a tendency for tactics more frequently seen by the World Wrestling Federation. It won’t be the first time that Stoke have suspected bias against their players – in their early years in the Premier League under Tony Pulis there was even a story that dvd’s for officials included a special section focusing on the club’s tactics. But with Shawcross determined to regain his place in the England squad, this will do little to improve his chances unless he can adapt his game quickly. Now the theory is out there, officials and managers may pick up the baton and run with it, placing even more pressure on Shawcross. John Percy
|
|
|
Post by thestatusquo on Oct 20, 2014 14:14:43 GMT
The club should do something. I'm also surprised that the PFA haven't had some comment on this.
|
|
|
Post by Kjones9 on Oct 20, 2014 14:32:47 GMT
I think we have to come to terms with that we are pretty much universally disliked.
In the comments section of that piece, we have people saying we have always been cheats?!?
The slightest thing we do sticks like glue.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 14:41:24 GMT
I thought this was excellent from John Percy today, from the Telegraph: www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/11173734/Premier-League-review-John-Terry-reaches-500-game-milestone-and-Joe-Hart-is-vital-to-Manchester-City-cause.htmlSpot of bother for Ryan Shawcross It seems Ryan Shawcross has got more to worry about than Roy Hodgson’s faulty sat-nav ever navigating a route to the Britannia Stadium. After Sunday’s victory over Swansea City, manager Mark Hughes admitted he is growing increasingly concerned that his Stoke captain is being unfairly targeted by referees. The penalty Shawcross conceded was his seventh since the 2008/09 season, earning him the unwanted record of giving away the most spot kicks in the Premier League in that time. Whether it was a penalty or not is an argument that is irrelevant now, although it was notable how Wilfried Bony seemed to have no problems holding off opponents outside the box for most of the afternoon. And if the offence Shawcross was supposedly guilty of applied to other players, we could be looking at more penalties in games than Liverpool's recent Capital One Cup tie against Middlesbrough. But the greater fear for Stoke at this stage is that Shawcross seems to have a reputation in both boxes and officials are fully aware of it. Sky Sports pundits including Jamie Carragher and Kevin Phillips waded in to the debate, insisting referee Michael Oliver was right, and hinting that Shawcross does have a tendency for tactics more frequently seen by the World Wrestling Federation. It won’t be the first time that Stoke have suspected bias against their players – in their early years in the Premier League under Tony Pulis there was even a story that dvd’s for officials included a special section focusing on the club’s tactics. But with Shawcross determined to regain his place in the England squad, this will do little to improve his chances unless he can adapt his game quickly. Now the theory is out there, officials and managers may pick up the baton and run with it, placing even more pressure on Shawcross. John Percy I've seen this stat quite a lot over the past 24 hours. Is there a defender who has played more minutes than Shawcross since 2008/09? - I'm struggling to think of a more ever present Premier League defender in terms of years in the league and injury record during the period. Is there a defender who has done more 'defending' per game than Shawcross during this period, he was camped in his box for the Pulis years! It's probably a penalty per 30 games - which doesn't seem at all excessive or noteworthy to me.
|
|
|
Post by Kjones9 on Oct 20, 2014 14:46:15 GMT
1 penalty per 32 games isn't that bad is it? Especially for a team like ourselves.
|
|
|
Post by onionman on Oct 20, 2014 14:48:58 GMT
I thought this was excellent from John Percy today, from the Telegraph: www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/11173734/Premier-League-review-John-Terry-reaches-500-game-milestone-and-Joe-Hart-is-vital-to-Manchester-City-cause.htmlSpot of bother for Ryan Shawcross It seems Ryan Shawcross has got more to worry about than Roy Hodgson’s faulty sat-nav ever navigating a route to the Britannia Stadium. After Sunday’s victory over Swansea City, manager Mark Hughes admitted he is growing increasingly concerned that his Stoke captain is being unfairly targeted by referees. The penalty Shawcross conceded was his seventh since the 2008/09 season, earning him the unwanted record of giving away the most spot kicks in the Premier League in that time. Whether it was a penalty or not is an argument that is irrelevant now, although it was notable how Wilfried Bony seemed to have no problems holding off opponents outside the box for most of the afternoon. And if the offence Shawcross was supposedly guilty of applied to other players, we could be looking at more penalties in games than Liverpool's recent Capital One Cup tie against Middlesbrough. But the greater fear for Stoke at this stage is that Shawcross seems to have a reputation in both boxes and officials are fully aware of it. Sky Sports pundits including Jamie Carragher and Kevin Phillips waded in to the debate, insisting referee Michael Oliver was right, and hinting that Shawcross does have a tendency for tactics more frequently seen by the World Wrestling Federation. It won’t be the first time that Stoke have suspected bias against their players – in their early years in the Premier League under Tony Pulis there was even a story that dvd’s for officials included a special section focusing on the club’s tactics. But with Shawcross determined to regain his place in the England squad, this will do little to improve his chances unless he can adapt his game quickly. Now the theory is out there, officials and managers may pick up the baton and run with it, placing even more pressure on Shawcross. John Percy I've seen this stat quite a lot over the past 24 hours. Is there a defender who has played more minutes than Shawcross since 2008/09? Is there a defender who has done more 'defending' per game than Shawcross during this period? It's probably a penalty per 30 games - which doesn't seem at all excessive or noteworthy to me. The statistic actually tells us Shawcross is boringly average in terms of his fouling, however it's easy meat for the Shawcross-villain narrative which crap commentators rely upon.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 14:53:54 GMT
I've seen this stat quite a lot over the past 24 hours. Is there a defender who has played more minutes than Shawcross since 2008/09? Is there a defender who has done more 'defending' per game than Shawcross during this period? It's probably a penalty per 30 games - which doesn't seem at all excessive or noteworthy to me. The statistic actually tells us Shawcross is boringly average in terms of his fouling, however it's easy meat for the Shawcross-villain narrative which crap commentators rely upon. If Pulis was still here he'd be preparing a minutes per penalty conceded document to email to every journalist in the country by now, starting with the Arsenal defenders. Wilko would be top of the league.
|
|
|
Post by Gods on Oct 20, 2014 15:00:52 GMT
I thought this was excellent from John Percy today, from the Telegraph: www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/11173734/Premier-League-review-John-Terry-reaches-500-game-milestone-and-Joe-Hart-is-vital-to-Manchester-City-cause.htmlSpot of bother for Ryan Shawcross It seems Ryan Shawcross has got more to worry about than Roy Hodgson’s faulty sat-nav ever navigating a route to the Britannia Stadium. After Sunday’s victory over Swansea City, manager Mark Hughes admitted he is growing increasingly concerned that his Stoke captain is being unfairly targeted by referees. The penalty Shawcross conceded was his seventh since the 2008/09 season, earning him the unwanted record of giving away the most spot kicks in the Premier League in that time. Whether it was a penalty or not is an argument that is irrelevant now, although it was notable how Wilfried Bony seemed to have no problems holding off opponents outside the box for most of the afternoon. And if the offence Shawcross was supposedly guilty of applied to other players, we could be looking at more penalties in games than Liverpool's recent Capital One Cup tie against Middlesbrough. But the greater fear for Stoke at this stage is that Shawcross seems to have a reputation in both boxes and officials are fully aware of it. Sky Sports pundits including Jamie Carragher and Kevin Phillips waded in to the debate, insisting referee Michael Oliver was right, and hinting that Shawcross does have a tendency for tactics more frequently seen by the World Wrestling Federation. It won’t be the first time that Stoke have suspected bias against their players – in their early years in the Premier League under Tony Pulis there was even a story that dvd’s for officials included a special section focusing on the club’s tactics. But with Shawcross determined to regain his place in the England squad, this will do little to improve his chances unless he can adapt his game quickly. Now the theory is out there, officials and managers may pick up the baton and run with it, placing even more pressure on Shawcross. John Percy I've seen this stat quite a lot over the past 24 hours. Is there a defender who has played more minutes than Shawcross since 2008/09? - I'm struggling to think of a more ever present Premier League defender in terms of years in the league and injury record during the period. Is there a defender who has done more 'defending' per game than Shawcross during this period, he was camped in his box for the Pulis years! It's probably a penalty per 30 games - which doesn't seem at all excessive or noteworthy to me. I agree, and it is not only the fact that he is a defender and the number of minutes he spends on the pitch it is also the fact that he is a defender who defends like his life depends upon it, a pure play stopper and blocker and tackler and interceptor, I'm not at all surprised.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 15:01:39 GMT
Hughes said that he didn't expect Monk to apologise, he advised him that with experience, he should bite his tongue and choose his words more carefully in the future He did however state that the comment "cheat" was totally unacceptable Yes he did. All in all it was far ruder and more condescending than lamely asking for an apology which you won't ever get, well done Sparky It was a brilliant put down wasn't it? I bet Monk was even angrier after seeing that little dig about his lack of experience
|
|
|
Post by ohbottom on Oct 20, 2014 15:02:37 GMT
I'm quite happy to have passionate pundits like Hartson He meant every word clearly. Needed some one with a Stoke viewpoint though. Just because he's "passionate" and "means it" doesn't mean it's ok for the beeb to allow highly biased bollocks be spouted on their flagship football programme. Ever seen any footage of Hitler's speeches at Nuremberg? He was extremely passionate and meant every word.
|
|
|
Post by Gods on Oct 20, 2014 15:05:07 GMT
Yes he did. All in all it was far ruder and more condescending than lamely asking for an apology which you won't ever get, well done Sparky It was a brilliant put down wasn't it? I bet Monk was even angrier after seeing that little dig about his lack of experience Yes, I imagine Mr. Monk would have had copious quantities of steam coming out of his ears when he heard that if he didn't already
|
|
|
Post by metalhead on Oct 20, 2014 15:22:41 GMT
I thought this was excellent from John Percy today, from the Telegraph: www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/11173734/Premier-League-review-John-Terry-reaches-500-game-milestone-and-Joe-Hart-is-vital-to-Manchester-City-cause.htmlSpot of bother for Ryan Shawcross It seems Ryan Shawcross has got more to worry about than Roy Hodgson’s faulty sat-nav ever navigating a route to the Britannia Stadium. After Sunday’s victory over Swansea City, manager Mark Hughes admitted he is growing increasingly concerned that his Stoke captain is being unfairly targeted by referees. The penalty Shawcross conceded was his seventh since the 2008/09 season, earning him the unwanted record of giving away the most spot kicks in the Premier League in that time. Whether it was a penalty or not is an argument that is irrelevant now, although it was notable how Wilfried Bony seemed to have no problems holding off opponents outside the box for most of the afternoon. And if the offence Shawcross was supposedly guilty of applied to other players, we could be looking at more penalties in games than Liverpool's recent Capital One Cup tie against Middlesbrough. But the greater fear for Stoke at this stage is that Shawcross seems to have a reputation in both boxes and officials are fully aware of it. Sky Sports pundits including Jamie Carragher and Kevin Phillips waded in to the debate, insisting referee Michael Oliver was right, and hinting that Shawcross does have a tendency for tactics more frequently seen by the World Wrestling Federation. It won’t be the first time that Stoke have suspected bias against their players – in their early years in the Premier League under Tony Pulis there was even a story that dvd’s for officials included a special section focusing on the club’s tactics. But with Shawcross determined to regain his place in the England squad, this will do little to improve his chances unless he can adapt his game quickly. Now the theory is out there, officials and managers may pick up the baton and run with it, placing even more pressure on Shawcross. John Percy I've seen this stat quite a lot over the past 24 hours. Is there a defender who has played more minutes than Shawcross since 2008/09? - I'm struggling to think of a more ever present Premier League defender in terms of years in the league and injury record during the period. Is there a defender who has done more 'defending' per game than Shawcross during this period, he was camped in his box for the Pulis years! It's probably a penalty per 30 games - which doesn't seem at all excessive or noteworthy to me. I'm sure I read somewhere that Koscielny has conceded 6 since 2010... in just 126 games. Shawcross has significantly more games and only conceded 1 more... Don't let the media find out that... They might voulez-vous all over themselves.
|
|
|
Post by nicholasjalcock on Oct 20, 2014 15:33:23 GMT
I've seen this stat quite a lot over the past 24 hours. Is there a defender who has played more minutes than Shawcross since 2008/09? - I'm struggling to think of a more ever present Premier League defender in terms of years in the league and injury record during the period. Is there a defender who has done more 'defending' per game than Shawcross during this period, he was camped in his box for the Pulis years! It's probably a penalty per 30 games - which doesn't seem at all excessive or noteworthy to me. I'm sure I read somewhere that Koscielny has conceded 6 since 2010... in just 126 games. Shawcross has significantly more games and only conceded 1 more... Don't let the media find out that... They might voulez-vous all over themselves. I agree. It isn't just the number of penalties, red cards etc. you are responsible for, it's the offences per game that is vital. The poison machine is in action overtime?!
|
|
|
Post by FullerMagic on Oct 20, 2014 15:50:22 GMT
Coates"I've never heard a more one-sided view from a pundit and we are right to complain about it," said Coates this afternoon.
"Hartson was a disgrace. He's a big fan of Swansea and their manager... and it showed."
Whether Garry Monk likes it or not, it was given. It probably was soft, but we've had our fair share of things go against us in the past.
"Peter Crouch has arms wrapped around him every single game and Lineker doesn't say anything about that.
"I watched what he was saying with my wife and said to her 'You watch, there'll be a reaction to this."
|
|
|
Post by thestatusquo on Oct 20, 2014 15:52:43 GMT
Coates"I've never heard a more one-sided view from a pundit and we are right to complain about it," said Coates this afternoon.
"Hartson was a disgrace. He's a big fan of Swansea and their manager... and it showed."
Whether Garry Monk likes it or not, it was given. It probably was soft, but we've had our fair share of things go against us in the past.
"Peter Crouch has arms wrapped around him every single game and Lineker doesn't say anything about that.
"I watched what he was saying with my wife and said to her 'You watch, there'll be a reaction to this."
Well said that man !!
|
|