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Post by fca47 on Oct 20, 2014 9:23:26 GMT
Ireland twice and Nzonzi yesterday. They had situations where they had a clear sight of goal but laid the ball off. It's no wonder we score so few goals. There are times when you find someone in a better position than you but they were just giving their defence the chance to close down. The odd time it's an error of judgment but it just seems as though our midfield are just too scred to take the resposibility.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 9:26:22 GMT
Nzonzi needs to be more confident when he gets near the goal, god knows why he didn't shoot yesterday! .
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Post by Kjones9 on Oct 20, 2014 9:27:28 GMT
Lack of confidence, in which the fans have to take part of the blame.
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Post by jwhpotter on Oct 20, 2014 9:30:35 GMT
Lack of confidence, in which the fans have to take part of the blame. What?! They get paid enough and they've got enough ability to be confident without the help of the fans |
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Post by Kjones9 on Oct 20, 2014 9:33:58 GMT
Lack of confidence, in which the fans have to take part of the blame. What?! They get paid enough and they've got enough ability to be confident without the help of the fans Ah the old money argument. You think the groans and moans at (only) certain players help thier confidence then? |
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Post by jwhpotter on Oct 20, 2014 9:36:45 GMT
Its not just the money but professional footballers shouldnt need the help of the fans to give them confidence to shoot. Yea I agree that people groaning can affect players confidence and vice versa but to partly blame the fans for players not shooting is a bit extreme IMO
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Post by podolipotter on Oct 20, 2014 9:38:07 GMT
I have been saying it for weeks now - we need to spend more time on shooting practice and less on (potentially) dangerous arm-wrestling in our own box. Nzonzi must have the worst shots to on-target record in the Premiership.
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Post by wembley4372 on Oct 20, 2014 9:40:04 GMT
Get into the ground earlier and watch the shooting practice, it'll provide all the information you require.
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Post by fca47 on Oct 20, 2014 10:27:27 GMT
Get into the ground earlier and watch the shooting practice, it'll provide all the information you require. I think Charlie's were the only one that actually went into the net. I like to think they are keeping their powder dry for the actual game, but it is just fanciful thinking on my part. |
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Post by metalhead on Oct 20, 2014 11:03:34 GMT
What?! They get paid enough and they've got enough ability to be confident without the help of the fans Ah the old money argument. You think the groans and moans at (only) certain players help thier confidence then? You can be just as critical of some players mate. N'Zonzi has rightly taken some stick over the years although I thought after Cameron came on and freed him up to push forward he looked excellent yesterday. If we stick with that three in midfield, then we'll see the best N'Zonzi. |
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Oct 20, 2014 11:13:20 GMT
Adam usually shoots on sight - and he is a midfielder. Hopefully Cameron will get more chances to shoot if we play him in midfield regularly. NZonzi just has no confidence when it comes to shooting and Whelan, these days, tends to play much deeper than he used to a few years ago. Ireland seems down on confidence compared to his best days at Citeh.
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Post by lordb on Oct 20, 2014 12:29:06 GMT
Ireland certainly is capable of a sublime finish which makes it even more frustrating when he doesn't.
Nzonzi's finishing is worse than all the others - no idea why as his passing is superb so why he can't 'pass' the ball into the net is beyond me.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Oct 20, 2014 12:33:41 GMT
Ireland certainly is capable of a sublime finish which makes it even more frustrating when he doesn't. Nzonzi's finishing is worse than all the others - no idea why as his passing is superb so why he can't 'pass' the ball into the net is beyond me. Interesting point about Nzonzi. Plenty of players over the years have scored a hatful of goals by "passing" the ball into the net. Perhaps Nzonzi needs to get into the box more often to be in a position to pass the ball into the net when the chances arrive - as they surely would if he makes the effort to get into the right positions. |
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Post by GrahamHyde on Oct 20, 2014 12:44:48 GMT
I have been saying it for weeks now - we need to spend more time on shooting practice and less on (potentially) dangerous arm-wrestling in our own box. Nzonzi must have the worst shots to on-target record in the Premiership. 13 shots, 3 on target. Poor, but not the worst by a long stretch. He's also had more shots than Hazard, Cabella, Silva and Diame this season. 19th highest midfielder in terms of number of shots overall. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 13:08:10 GMT
What?! They get paid enough and they've got enough ability to be confident without the help of the fans Ah the old money argument. You think the groans and moans at (only) certain players help thier confidence then? well it didn' seem to effect SJW yesterday and he takes more flack than the rest of the squad put together. the "old money argument" may not be 100% true but it certainly makes more sense than this one of yours does. i don't see how fans moaning at players like Cameron, walters and N'Zonzi can affect players like Ireland and Whelan who hardly ever get moaned at but also hardly ever shoot when they get the chance. i think the OP is completely correct, we spend so much time playing the ball around to get in and around the area and then don't even try to capitalise when we get there, we either play it out wide (giving the defence chance to set themselves) or piss about trying to walk it into the net through the eye of a needle. you don't shoot = you don't score....really is that simple |
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Post by Kjones9 on Oct 20, 2014 13:12:37 GMT
Ah the old money argument. You think the groans and moans at (only) certain players help thier confidence then? well it didn' seem to effect SJW yesterday and he takes more flack than the rest of the squad put together. the "old money argument" may not be 100% true but it certainly makes more sense than this one of yours does. Walters gets stick on here, yes. Does the crowd groan and get on his back at the match? No. If the second part actually made sense I'd reply to it. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 13:15:13 GMT
well it didn' seem to effect SJW yesterday and he takes more flack than the rest of the squad put together. the "old money argument" may not be 100% true but it certainly makes more sense than this one of yours does. Walters gets stick on here, yes. Does the crowd groan and get on his back at the match? No. If the second part actually made sense I'd reply to it. how often do you hear the crowd getting on the back of Ireland or Whelan then? or you just going to focus on ONE player and make things up because you can't accept others disagree with your (commonly) nonsensical posts? sorry...what part of it doesn't make sense anyway? it's EXTREMELY easy to understand....or are you doing your usual and just deciding that if basic logic proves you wrong then you'll just criticise it because you have no answer to it? yeah,thought so |
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Post by Gods on Oct 20, 2014 13:16:13 GMT
I love the Zonz but he really did look lost when he waltzed in to the box and failed to pull the trigger, it was very strange for a player of his obvious class.
Charlie Adam never needs a 2nd invitation to shoot, not from anywhere!
Different players, different personalities, definitely one for the training ground I think.
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Post by Kjones9 on Oct 20, 2014 13:16:21 GMT
Walters gets stick on here, yes. Does the crowd groan and get on his back at the match? No. If the second part actually made sense I'd reply to it. sorry...what part of it doesn't make sense? it's EXTREMELY easy to understand....or are you doing your usual and just deciding that if basic logic proves you wrong then you'll just criticise it because you have no answer to it? yeah,thought so Come on then explain it too me. the "old money argument" may not be 100% true but it certainly makes more sense than this one of yours does. Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/235842/why-midfield-shoot-when-area?page=1#ixzz3GgtI3mq3 |
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Post by JoeinOz on Oct 20, 2014 13:16:22 GMT
The build up play can be bolod and fluid then in sight of goal they have shit running down their legs. Apart from Super Charles
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 13:17:54 GMT
sorry...what part of it doesn't make sense? it's EXTREMELY easy to understand....or are you doing your usual and just deciding that if basic logic proves you wrong then you'll just criticise it because you have no answer to it? yeah,thought so Come on then explain it too me.  as i asked, which part doesn't make sense exactly? i don't see a single other person saying they're confused by it, basic logic and english seems to be understood by everyone else on here. |
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Post by Kjones9 on Oct 20, 2014 13:22:38 GMT
Come on then explain it too me. as i asked, which part doesn't make sense exactly? i don't see a single other person saying they're confused by it, basic logic and english seems to be understood by everyone else on here. Your choice of words don't really make sense. Are you you going to prove me wrong about the first bit? Or are you going to do what you normally do and bore everyone to tears throwing insults and generally skirting around the issue? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 13:26:41 GMT
as i asked, which part doesn't make sense exactly? i don't see a single other person saying they're confused by it, basic logic and english seems to be understood by everyone else on here. Your choice of words don't really make sense. Are you you going to prove me wrong about the first bit? Or are you going to do what you normally do and bore everyone to tears throwing insults and generally skirting around the issue? they make perfect sense. they're gramatically correct and fairly basic ones as well, most don't even have more than about 7 letters....if you don't understand them then fair enough but i'm not about to start giving English language foundation classes to you mate. just accept the fact that others have a different opinion for once instead of trying to start a barny with everyone that disagrees with you because you seem to think that YOU being right is the be all and end all. |
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Post by Kjones9 on Oct 20, 2014 13:27:35 GMT
Your choice of words don't really make sense. Are you you going to prove me wrong about the first bit? Or are you going to do what you normally do and bore everyone to tears throwing insults and generally skirting around the issue? they make perfect sense. they're gramatically correct and fairly basic ones as well, most don't even have more than about 7 letters....if you don't understand them then fair enough but i'm not about to start giving English language foundation classes to you mate. just accept the fact that others have a different opinion for once instead of trying to start a barny with everyone that disagrees with you because you seem to think that YOU being right is the be all and end all. So that's a no then, typical. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 13:30:40 GMT
they make perfect sense. they're gramatically correct and fairly basic ones as well, most don't even have more than about 7 letters....if you don't understand them then fair enough but i'm not about to start giving English language foundation classes to you mate. just accept the fact that others have a different opinion for once instead of trying to start a barny with everyone that disagrees with you because you seem to think that YOU being right is the be all and end all. So that's a no then, typical. ????? i've asked you twice already what you're confused about...as of yet you still haven't answered. if you do then i'll happily explain what no-one else (not one person at all apart from you) seems to be confused about.i'm not psychic so unsurprisingly can't explain it to you until i know what part seems to be causing the problem can i? for once, you may just want to accept other people's opinions instead of being the miserable, trolling little prick that so many people accuse you of being (let's face it, it's hardly just me that thinks you're a dick is it!) |
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Post by Kjones9 on Oct 20, 2014 13:32:07 GMT
Your choice of words don't really make sense. Are you you going to prove me wrong about the first bit? Or are you going to do what you normally do and bore everyone to tears throwing insults and generally skirting around the issue? they make perfect sense. they're gramatically correct and fairly basic ones as well, most don't even have more than about 7 letters....if you don't understand them then fair enough but i'm not about to start giving English language foundation classes to you mate. just accept the fact that others have a different opinion for once instead of trying to start a barny with everyone that disagrees with you because you seem to think that YOU being right is the be all and end all. Also don't you think that you're being a tad hypocritical as its you "trying to start a barny" with me, by questioning the absolute FACT that N'zonzi audibly gets groans all around the stadium. Are you in your infinite wisdom saying that that doesn't affect players confidence? |
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Post by Kjones9 on Oct 20, 2014 13:33:10 GMT
So that's a no then, typical. ????? i've asked you twice already what you're confused about...as of yet you still haven't answered. if you do then i'll happily explain what no-one else (not one person at all apart from you) seems to be confused about.i'm not psychic so unsurprisingly can't explain it to you until i know what part seems to be causing the problem can i? for once, you may just want to accept other people's opinions instead of being the miserable, trolling little prick that so many people accuse you of being (let's face it, it's hardly just me that thinks you're a dick is it!) The first part as in the Walters bit YOU FUCKING CONDESCENDING MORON!!!!!!!!! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 13:39:34 GMT
they make perfect sense. they're gramatically correct and fairly basic ones as well, most don't even have more than about 7 letters....if you don't understand them then fair enough but i'm not about to start giving English language foundation classes to you mate. just accept the fact that others have a different opinion for once instead of trying to start a barny with everyone that disagrees with you because you seem to think that YOU being right is the be all and end all. Also don't you think that you're being a tad hypocritical as its you "trying to start a barny" with me, by questioning the absolute FACT that N'zonzi audibly gets groans all around the stadium. Are you in your infinite wisdom saying that that doesn't affect players confidence? did i say that anywhere???? nope don't think i did...i simply said that the "Old money argument" DOES have more weight to it than you deciding that the fans jeering creates more a problem given the fact that you have just one player to use as an example despite there being the same audible groans about other players who it DOESN'T effect at all. at the end of the day, it's an OPINION....as is yours! you may think it effects their confidence but that isn't proof i'm afraid, it's just what YOU think...therefore people weight up the different arguments based on fact and come to a conclusion...you have decided it's the fan's that are to blame based on 1 player and what YOU think is his issue, i disagree on that as there's nothing to suggest it's the case (not even the player himself has said so). whilst disagreeing with your idea i also happen to agree that the money they are paid IS relevant as the amount they are paid takes into account the pressure they are under in their specified role, if they cannot handle that pressure then they don't justify the wage. Prem footballers get paid more because they can compete with quality at a higher level; part of playing at that level necessarily involves an increased amount of pressure than they would get at a lower level, it's part and parcel of the game and the job they are paid to do. Therefore, if they are paid to be a Prem footballer (meaning they can perform at a higher level under increased pressure) it is perfectly justified to conclude that the increased monetary benefit comes with an increased expectation of what they can or can't put up with from the crowd. it reallis very, very basic logic. |
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Post by Kjones9 on Oct 20, 2014 13:55:35 GMT
Also don't you think that you're being a tad hypocritical as its you "trying to start a barny" with me, by questioning the absolute FACT that N'zonzi audibly gets groans all around the stadium. Are you in your infinite wisdom saying that that doesn't affect players confidence? did i say that anywhere???? nope don't think i did...i simply said that the "Old money argument" DOES have more weight to it than you deciding that the fans jeering creates more a problem given the fact that you have just one player to use as an example despite there being the same audible groans about other players who it DOESN'T effect at all. at the end of the day, it's an OPINION....as is yours! you may think it effects their confidence but that isn't proof i'm afraid, it's just what YOU think...therefore people weight up the different arguments based on fact and come to a conclusion...you have decided it's the fan's that are to blame based on 1 player and what YOU think is his issue, i disagree on that as there's nothing to suggest it's the case (not even the player himself has said so). whilst disagreeing with your idea i also happen to agree that the money they are paid IS relevant as the amount they are paid takes into account the pressure they are under in their specified role, if they cannot handle that pressure then they don't justify the wage. Prem footballers get paid more because they can compete with quality at a higher level; part of playing at that level necessarily involves an increased amount of pressure than they would get at a lower level, it's part and parcel of the game and the job they are paid to do. Therefore, if they are paid to be a Prem footballer (meaning they can perform at a higher level under increased pressure) it is perfectly justified to conclude that the increased monetary benefit comes with an increased expectation of what they can or can't put up with from the crowd. it reallis very, very basic logic. If it's that basic logic how come you find it hard to get to the point? I get what you're saying now, it's ok to slag N'zonzi off because he gets paid a footballers wage. His confidence should be high as he gets paid a footballers wage. He should be scoring every match because he gets a footballers wage. He should be yaya toure because Walters scored a goal. I'm not getting into it any further as your out of order insults have already provoked me into responding with insults. Well done big man.  Also I like all your edits, they make more sense now. I like what you did there. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 14:05:53 GMT
????? i've asked you twice already what you're confused about...as of yet you still haven't answered. if you do then i'll happily explain what no-one else (not one person at all apart from you) seems to be confused about.i'm not psychic so unsurprisingly can't explain it to you until i know what part seems to be causing the problem can i? for once, you may just want to accept other people's opinions instead of being the miserable, trolling little prick that so many people accuse you of being (let's face it, it's hardly just me that thinks you're a dick is it!) The first part as in the Walters bit YOU FUCKING CONDESCENDING MORON!!!!!!!!! hardly condescending really.....i asked you twice and you didn't answer. add to that the fact that you originally said "If the second part actually made sense I'd reply to it." and then changed it to the "First bit" then surely you can see the confusion you created? the Walters part is quite simple to explain in that the fact that he gets more stick than anyone else yet it didn't seem to effect his confidence yesterday in terms of taking chances in the box when he had them. |
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