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Post by starkiller on Sept 24, 2014 15:51:20 GMT
The News "In accordance to the principles of Doublethink, it does not matter if the war is not real, or when it is, that victory is not possible. The war is not meant to be won. It is meant to be continuous. The essential act of modern warfare is the destruction of the produce of human labor. A hierarchical society is only possible on the basis of poverty and ignorance. In principle, the war effort is always planned to keep society on the brink of starvation. The war is waged by the ruling group against its own subjects. And its object is not victory over Eurasia or Eastasia, but to keep the very structure of society intact." i presume you're aware that that is based on a book..it's not a documentary Tell that to the War Machine.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 17:25:07 GMT
Well....things are gathering pace. Since I responded to Patrick potter in relation to whether or not direct force with troops on the ground actually works or not , it would seem that several foreign governments have decided that this is the only way to go to prevent an even bigger crisis. After a direct appeal from the Iraqi government for help the UK parliament has now been recalled to discuss this matter and even Ed Milliband has given his support for action on the ground in Iraq. Meanwhile Cameron is being leant on heavily by Obama in America where more talks are taking place.
It's one of those situations that cannot be left to its on devices and conclusions. IS has to be annihilated and all those who support it by whatever means they prefer....from fund raising to actual fighting.
The downside is obvious. An even greater hatred for the west and more terrorist attacks across the world , but this does not mean that it should not go ahead.
A French tourist has also been beheaded incidentally....
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Post by lawrieleslie on Sept 24, 2014 19:48:47 GMT
Well....things are gathering pace. Since I responded to Patrick potter in relation to whether or not direct force with troops on the ground actually works or not , it would seem that several foreign governments have decided that this is the only way to go to prevent an even bigger crisis. After a direct appeal from the Iraqi government for help the UK parliament has now been recalled to discuss this matter and even Ed Milliband has given his support for action on the ground in Iraq. Meanwhile Cameron is being leant on heavily by Obama in America where more talks are taking place. It's one of those situations that cannot be left to its on devices and conclusions. IS has to be annihilated and all those who support it by whatever means they prefer....from fund raising to actual fighting. The downside is obvious. An even greater hatred for the west and more terrorist attacks across the world , but this does not mean that it should not go ahead. A French tourist has also been beheaded incidentally.... In Algeria which is worrying. This conflict is going to be long and bloody. Shock and awe tactics without ground troops worked well in Gulf War 1 leaving the ground troops to mop up in Iraq but this is much wider geographically. At the moment the allies are sending a message to IS that there will be a response but I think ground forces will be needed sooner rather than at the end a la Iraq. Also very worrying that there has been no Russian response as yet. Somebody questioned in an earlier post as to where the funding is coming from? Consider this..... The Russians have little to lose by an IS expansion but much to gain from stirring it up possibly with Russian money and arms to back IS. Perhaps by doing this could Putin be hoping that he can divert attention from its own expansion plans? Are we on the brink of a global conflict here?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 20:05:09 GMT
Yes....I see things very much the same as you Lawrie. I'm not so sure about a global conflict as in a world war , but perhaps a Middle Eastern war involving the west allied with at least two or three Arab countries. Putin will use this to his advantage by supplying the arms and finance to those who oppose the West . Things will get nasty with the potential for things to escalate across the whole region. Thankfully dictators like Sadam and Gadaffi are no longer around to make the situation any worse but the terrorist threat remains the same whether ground forces are sent in or not. I think that there are clear divisions developing ...a very worrying trend.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 20:10:39 GMT
Yes....I see things very much the same as you Lawrie. I'm not so sure about a global conflict as in a world war , but perhaps a Middle Eastern war involving the west allied with at least two or three Arab countries. Putin will use this to his advantage by supplying the arms and finance to those who oppose the West . Things will get nasty with the potential for things to escalate across the whole region. Thankfully dictators like Sadam and Gadaffi are no longer around to make the situation any worse but the terrorist threat remains the same whether ground forces are sent in or not. I think that there are clear divisions developing ...a very worrying trend. Hear Here... TEST
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Post by lastoftheldk on Sept 24, 2014 20:36:18 GMT
what do you mean half done? 1)they got rid of Saddam (despite having supported him for years previously) 2) they appeased millions of Americans who foolishly believed that the invasion of Iraq actually DID have something to do with the "War on terror" (which in reality was a soundbite PR title originally invented so they could group it all into September 11th and then the US public could think they'd taken some kind of revenge for what happened when in reality the 2 things had sod all to do with each other) 3) they crippled Iraq's oil industry ensuring they couldn't rebuild any decent military force again or be a major economic player at any point in the future (over $8.8 billion of oil revenues from Iraqi oil is still "unaccounted for" during the period that the US had control over the oil profits and "promised to spend it wisely" directly after the invasion. they are also still only producing 2 million barrels per day despite US assurances that within months of the invasion it would be back to over 3.5mill per day and guarantees that it would be above 6 mill per day within "a few years") as far as the US are concerned, i'd say they pretty much carried out 100% of their original objectives. i mean half done like We went in the middle East to make it safer and then soded of before suceding! dont buy all the conspircy theary stuff think We invaded to nacker Sad dam nowt more. he did not haver wmd's but needed to go any way! it was safe then than it is now, the sanctions where working
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Post by lastoftheldk on Sept 24, 2014 20:39:52 GMT
well its begun and about fukinjh time! some thing needed to be done and you can trust the yanksto do get stuck in when ther is a danger to there security. SHame on UK for not standing up to these scummers taking BRitish hostages - soft as shit this counrty these days! For me, the English were the only ones besides us willing to spill blood for Iraq. That being said, Americans right now don't want another trillion dollar war (and believe me, I know about the conspiracy theories!). But, I don't think anyone is against using some drones or airstrikes. (Obama signs executive orders for those with glee.) Sadly, when this whole ISIS thing broke out, our military said they didn't know who to blow up because they couldn't tell one set of Muslim militants from the next. why was there any need to, spill blood for Iraq, and isis where did they get the new yank 4x4s from that they are running around in
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choc
Academy Starlet
Posts: 149
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Post by choc on Sept 24, 2014 21:45:46 GMT
ISIS has plenty of military hardware ceased from the Iraqi army when they went AWOL. They also took a Syrian military airbase recently in Tabqa with planes and helicopters.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 21:52:02 GMT
For me, the English were the only ones besides us willing to spill blood for Iraq. That being said, Americans right now don't want another trillion dollar war (and believe me, I know about the conspiracy theories!). But, I don't think anyone is against using some drones or airstrikes. (Obama signs executive orders for those with glee.) Sadly, when this whole ISIS thing broke out, our military said they didn't know who to blow up because they couldn't tell one set of Muslim militants from the next. why was there any need to, spill blood for Iraq, and isis where did they get the new yank 4x4s from that they are running around in Point 1 ,. Ask yourself how much the price of Petrol would now be if we hadn't deposed Sadam and ousted him from Kuwait. Point 2 . They took them by force in the main...as with their more sophisticated weaponry.
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Post by lastoftheldk on Sept 24, 2014 22:22:24 GMT
why was there any need to, spill blood for Iraq, and isis where did they get the new yank 4x4s from that they are running around in Point 1 ,. Ask yourself how much the price of Petrol would now be if we hadn't deposed Sadam and ousted him from Kuwait. Point 2 . They took them by force in the main...as with their more sophisticated weaponry. agree get him out of Kuwait, there was no need for the second war, the sanctions were working, Kurds had there own area, Saddam would have been replace by natural progression. Saddam, Gaddaffi and Assad ran a safer more peacefull middle east that what we have now As for the price of petrol, if thacther had not sold the North sea oil on the international market fuel would be a lot cheaper for everyone instead of a tiny minority having the benifits Isis, if they want a home land with a Koran seventh century rules, well give them it and cut them off from the rest of the world, back to donkeys and carts etc, no modern transport, no electricty, no internet , no phones, modern medicines etc, and put them all in it,
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Post by lastoftheldk on Sept 24, 2014 22:35:22 GMT
and dont forget this is the same isis that less than a year ago, the yanks and Brits wanted to help and fight along side agaisnt Assad, so what is really going on ?
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Post by elsidibe on Sept 24, 2014 23:02:31 GMT
and dont forget this is the same isis that less than a year ago, the yanks and Brits wanted to help and fight along side agaisnt Assad, so what is really going on ? The answer to that is largely to be found in the Bob Dylan song "With God On Our Side".
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 23:04:34 GMT
and dont forget this is the same isis that less than a year ago, the yanks and Brits wanted to help and fight along side agaisnt Assad, so what is really going on ? No it isn't ......the people America and Britain wanted to help last year were Syrians who had rebelled against Assads regime ......IS ' s roots go back a lot further than that some ten or twelve years ....they just jumped on the bandwagon in Syria in the rebellion against Assad to further their own ends in the formation of an all encompassing Sunni lead Islamic state .....not the same thing at all
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Post by elsidibe on Sept 24, 2014 23:24:41 GMT
and dont forget this is the same isis that less than a year ago, the yanks and Brits wanted to help and fight along side agaisnt Assad, so what is really going on ? No it isn't ......the people America and Britain wanted to help last year were Syrians who had rebelled against Assads regime ......IS ' s roots go back a lot further than that some ten or twelve years ....they just jumped on the bandwagon in Syria in the rebellion against Assad to further their own ends in the formation of an all encompassing Sunni lead Islamic state .....not the same thing at all ISIS was one of many ragtag groups of misfits which we and the Americans were itching to arm under the misguided assumption that our enemy's enemy must be our friend - even though the British-educated Assad was also a friend until recently. If you wanted to claim that IS has its roots in al Qaeda and not in Syria (despite the "In Syria" bit of their former name) then that takes us right back to Uncle Sam too, since the CIA created AQ in 1980s Afghanistan. Again, assuming that their enemy's enemy was their friend. Notice a pattern?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 23:35:06 GMT
No it isn't ......the people America and Britain wanted to help last year were Syrians who had rebelled against Assads regime ......IS ' s roots go back a lot further than that some ten or twelve years ....they just jumped on the bandwagon in Syria in the rebellion against Assad to further their own ends in the formation of an all encompassing Sunni lead Islamic state .....not the same thing at all ISIS was one of many ragtag groups of misfits which we and the Americans were itching to arm under the misguided assumption that our enemy's enemy must be our friend - even though the British-educated Assad was also a friend until recently. If you wanted to claim that IS has its roots in al Qaeda and not in Syria (despite the "In Syria" bit of their former name) then that takes us right back to Uncle Sam too, since the CIA created AQ in 1980s Afghanistan. Again, assuming that their enemy's enemy was their friend. Notice a pattern? IS or what ever you choose to call them have their roots in Jordan under the auspices of certain radical clerics ....not sown from the same seed as AQ , all though their paths may have trod the same route on occassion
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 23:41:06 GMT
And they are no longer a rag tag group .....but a very real threat to peace and security in the region .....don't try and pin this like everything else on Britain and the U.S. ....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 23:42:48 GMT
Yes...a pattern is developing.
No matter what the nationality , no matter what their source of indoctrination or excuse , evil fanaticism holds no bounds. You either point the finger of blame at the US or UK as a result of its foreign policy in the region to answer the call for humanitarian aid or you show compassion and veiled support of the 'fuzzies' based on our record in the region.
We are dealing with evil bastuurds who are prepared to kill any innocent civilians like for example the Taxi driver from Eccles who was clearly on a mission of mercy to help those innocent civilians caught up in the conflict.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 23:59:23 GMT
So summarising , the choices are these ...
Which would you prefer to have tea and biscuits with...
The leader of IS.
President Obama
President Assad
Their is no wrong answer. It's a simple case of putting an 'x' in the box as to whom in your opinion could be trusted most
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 0:08:19 GMT
So summarising , the choices are these ... Which would you prefer to have tea and biscuits with... The leader of IS. President Obama President Assad Their is no wrong answer. It's a simple case of putting an 'x' in the box as to whom in your opinion could be trusted most That's a no brainer really for those of us who are in possession of a sound mind mumf .......
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Post by elsidibe on Sept 25, 2014 0:09:25 GMT
Yes...a pattern is developing. No matter what the nationality , no matter what their source of indoctrination or excuse , evil fanaticism holds no bounds. You either point the finger of blame at the US or UK as a result of its foreign policy in the region to answer the call for humanitarian aid or you show compassion and veiled support of the 'fuzzies' based on our record in the region. We are dealing with evil bastuurds who are prepared to kill any innocent civilians like for example the Taxi driver from Eccles who was clearly on a mission of mercy to help those innocent civilians caught up in the conflict. "Fuzzies" is an apt word in a way because it's pretty fuzzy as to exactly what or whom you're referring. If you're referring to IS, AQ or their ilk then you'll find precisely no support for them in anything I've ever written. Your problem is that you only deal in absolutes; you assume that anyone not agreeing with you on world affairs must be siding with your enemy. It's possible to have a more nuanced worldview than that.
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Post by elsidibe on Sept 25, 2014 0:12:24 GMT
ISIS was one of many ragtag groups of misfits which we and the Americans were itching to arm under the misguided assumption that our enemy's enemy must be our friend - even though the British-educated Assad was also a friend until recently. If you wanted to claim that IS has its roots in al Qaeda and not in Syria (despite the "In Syria" bit of their former name) then that takes us right back to Uncle Sam too, since the CIA created AQ in 1980s Afghanistan. Again, assuming that their enemy's enemy was their friend. Notice a pattern? IS or what ever you choose to call them have their roots in Jordan under the auspices of certain radical clerics ....not sown from the same seed as AQ , all though their paths may have trod the same route on occassion They've been a recognised AQ affiliate since the Iraq War (the second one). They even went under the title "al-Qaeda in Iraq".
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 25, 2014 5:41:58 GMT
This approach doesn't work! Overwhelming military force does not succeed in asymmetric warfare. Been shown time and time again. But the West - specifically the US (aided by its faithful lackey the UK) - carry on regardless. The only way to a solution is through negotiation. Unfortunately, the belligerents always, at the start of any conflict, present the enemy as someone so evil that negotiation is impossible. However, after many lives have been lost, money spent and absolutely zero progress made, negotiations suddenly become possible. Sadly we seem unable to bypass step one of this process. It's the same old song... It does work. Dead men don't pull triggers. It's worked in every conflict it's been employed in . It is 100% effective no matter what the flavour of Fuzzy. Lets start with Iraq...Yes... Afghanistan ....Yes Libya.....Yes. Israel.....Yes.. Just because there are thousands of fuzzies prepared to pick up a Kalashnikov for the cause , don't ever assume that there isn't enough bullets or drones to kill them....because there is. It worked in the assassination of Bin Laden and scores of other Al Quaeda operatives around the globe. Trying to rewrite history or facts doesn't work. Negotiation with Isis is a none runner.... A non runner that will never happen . They will get blasted to hell by any number of government armies involved . A Toyota Hilux with an automatic machine gun and three fuzzies on the back just doesn't cut it it I'm afraid . Obviously , there will be others prepared to take up arms from places like , Bradford , Burnley , Oldham , Luton etc , but this is why we should stay vigilant and committed to wipe out such threats by whatever means we can. We could always try changing 'signing on' day first I suppose..... You're having a laugh right?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 8:56:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 9:14:28 GMT
well its begun and about fukinjh time! some thing needed to be done and you can trust the yanksto do get stuck in when ther is a danger to there security. SHame on UK for not standing up to these scummers taking BRitish hostages - soft as shit this counrty these days! For me, the English were the only ones besides us willing to spill blood for Iraq. That being said, Americans right now don't want another trillion dollar war (and believe me, I know about the conspiracy theories!). But, I don't think anyone is against using some drones or airstrikes. (Obama signs executive orders for those with glee.) Sadly, when this whole ISIS thing broke out, our military said they didn't know who to blow up because they couldn't tell one set of Muslim militants from the next. who can mate lol send them all to the moon or south Pole and let them have a state their
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 9:21:11 GMT
What's with the hyroglifics & capital letters!?! They don't like it up'em!!! He demonstrates that anyone who sees the world in such simplistic terms must be illiterate in all sorts of ways. illiterate mate piss rate off wots ur big idea then try hug them till they are frends lol
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 10:43:06 GMT
Shades of "The Divine Wind "
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 10:47:47 GMT
He demonstrates that anyone who sees the world in such simplistic terms must be illiterate in all sorts of ways. illiterate mate piss rate off wots ur big idea then try hug them till they are frends lol You are no more illiterate than me or anybody else on here mate , but you do make a fine effort in appearing to be so ....a deliberate attempt to remain incognito perhaps ?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 12:14:02 GMT
illiterate mate piss rate off wots ur big idea then try hug them till they are frends lol You are no more illiterate than me or anybody else on here mate , but you do make a fine effort in appearing to be so ....a deliberate attempt to remain incognito perhaps ? what incongito like islamic state or incognito like everone else on the fuckin oatcake mate? nonone here know's who any one is ffs
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Post by lordb on Sept 25, 2014 13:04:25 GMT
You are no more illiterate than me or anybody else on here mate , but you do make a fine effort in appearing to be so ....a deliberate attempt to remain incognito perhaps ? what incongito like islamic state or incognito like everone else on the fuckin oatcake mate? nonone here know's who any one is ffs Are you saying Blackhawkdown isn't your real name?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 13:24:08 GMT
what incongito like islamic state or incognito like everone else on the fuckin oatcake mate? nonone here know's who any one is ffs Are you saying Blackhawkdown isn't your real name? lol fraid not mate sort of a knick name i used have in a old job . top film also obvs
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