UNKLE
Youth Player
Posts: 424
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Post by UNKLE on Aug 13, 2014 8:18:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2014 8:21:38 GMT
Link doesn't work (unless it's just me)
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Aug 13, 2014 8:32:19 GMT
Its missing .co.uk
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Post by salopstick on Aug 13, 2014 9:11:14 GMT
Good read.
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Post by The Stubborn Optimist on Aug 13, 2014 9:14:09 GMT
By some margin the best review of Stoke I've seen from all of the various media pundits, well written and with some intelligent observations.
I particularly liked this from a Spurs fan in the comments section:-
"I've always quite liked Stoke. Under Pulis, they really used to annoy the big teams and get up the noses of the purists, and they were always pretty much nailed-on for a midtable finish and a decent cup run. I never thought their football under Pulis was that unwatchable - there are many different ways to play the game, and Pulis, up until his last season, had a perfect strategy in place - but Hughes does seem to have added some flair.
I remember thinking when Sparky was appointed, as many others did, that it wasn't really a change or step forward in any way. I still don't think for one minute that Hughes is a superior manager to Pulis, but he did try and change the way Stoke play and he has made them easier on the eye. Begovic is a great goalkeeper, Shawcross is one of the most consistent defenders in the league and never seems to get the credit he deserves, Adam can have moments of creative brilliance but is also too ill-disciplined, and Arnautovic was a star last season. Odemwingie, when his head is right, is also a very useful striker to have, whilst Walters and Crouch will guarantee you hard work and a decent amount of goals.
Bojan is an inspired signing. He was one of Barca's bright young things, but seems to have gone off the boil in the last few years. If Stoke can get the best out of him, they could have a very decent season.
They'll be safe, I don't think there's any doubt about that. They're an established Premier League side now, seemingly very well run, have a good support base, and arguably one of the best atmospheres at the Britannia. It's not as difficult to get points there as it was a few seasons ago, but they seem to have picked up their away form to compensate for that.
Anywhere between 8th and 12th would be my bet."
Well done to the Guardian.
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Post by Linx on Aug 13, 2014 9:46:48 GMT
I almost spat out my cornflakes at the mention of Lee Trundle in a Stoke article.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 13, 2014 9:48:45 GMT
That's a very well researched and well written article.
Surprised by the level and accuracy of detail actually.
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Post by elystokie on Aug 13, 2014 9:57:01 GMT
"This will give Stoke an attack of invention, imagination, speed and flexibility."
Ooooh Baby ???
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Aug 13, 2014 10:00:25 GMT
Must manage expectation, must manage expectations. Fuck it 'We're by the far the greatest team the world has ever seen............'  |
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Aug 13, 2014 10:02:30 GMT
I don't like all these opposition fans gushing over us, go back to hating us you chodes!
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Aug 13, 2014 10:07:08 GMT
That's a very well researched and well written article.
Surprised by the level and accuracy of detail actually.
I agree Paul, best I've read so far. Shows a perceptive understanding of Hughesy and our club.
Got a bit weird towards the end of the piece. Brek Shea? I also think Eider and Tuncay were completely different. EG wasn't just unfit - he was fat. The game just seemed to pass him by.
Also, the whole thing of "accommodating" Bojan is starting to concern me, as I know it does you. I'm fairly sure he will start from the bench against Villa. I think he can play right of the 3, but it will leave a lot for Bardsley to do. His best position will be behind a striker - does this see us reverting to a narrow 4-4-1-1, with Bojan replacing Stephen Ireland?
Managing this balance looks like Hughesy's biggest challenge.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2014 10:16:14 GMT
That's a very well researched and well written article.
Surprised by the level and accuracy of detail actually.
it's not that accurate Paul....he's missed off the likes of Ethers and Pennant and Wilko at LB  |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 13, 2014 10:17:21 GMT
That's a very well researched and well written article.
Surprised by the level and accuracy of detail actually.
I agree Paul, best I've read so far. Shows a perceptive understanding of Hughesy and our club.
Got a bit weird towards the end of the piece. Brek Shea? I also think Eider and Tuncay were completely different. EG wasn't just unfit - he was fat. The game just seemed to pass him by.
Also, the whole thing of "accommodating" Bojan is starting to concern me, as I know it does you. I'm fairly sure he will start from the bench against Villa. I think he can play right of the 3, but it will leave a lot for Bardsley to do. His best position will be behind a striker - does this see us reverting to a narrow 4-4-1-1, with Bojan replacing Stephen Ireland?
Managing this balance looks like Hughesy's biggest challenge.
I think his best position is playing as a false number 9 and I firmly believe we should play him as one. For me we're going to need our wide men to track back and cover their full backs in the Premiership. If Ireland gets injured, then I don't think there's any harm in trying him there but I wouldn't do it in the first instance. For me it's going to have to be either DIouf or Bojan but not both, that is unless Diouf plays on the right. |
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Aug 13, 2014 10:29:22 GMT
Totally agree Spencer. Bojan is a striker but likes to drop deep. He can play in other positions which is great, but he will be best employed upfront with Ireland behind slipping the thru-balls for him, and making 1-2s
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Aug 13, 2014 10:30:31 GMT
I agree Paul, best I've read so far. Shows a perceptive understanding of Hughesy and our club.
Got a bit weird towards the end of the piece. Brek Shea? I also think Eider and Tuncay were completely different. EG wasn't just unfit - he was fat. The game just seemed to pass him by.
Also, the whole thing of "accommodating" Bojan is starting to concern me, as I know it does you. I'm fairly sure he will start from the bench against Villa. I think he can play right of the 3, but it will leave a lot for Bardsley to do. His best position will be behind a striker - does this see us reverting to a narrow 4-4-1-1, with Bojan replacing Stephen Ireland?
Managing this balance looks like Hughesy's biggest challenge.
I think his best position is playing as a false number 9 and I firmly believe we should play him as one. For me we're going to need our wide men to track back and cover their full backs in the Premiership. If Ireland gets injured, then I don't think there's any harm in trying him there but I wouldn't do it in the first instance. For me it's going to have to be either DIouf or Bojan but not both, that is unless Diouf plays on the right. I slightly disagree there, because I'm not absolutely convinced by the whole false 9 thing. When Spain destroyed Italy (?) in the Euro final, it really clicked, but they had so many good attacking one touch players. I'm not sure yet whether Bojan is physically strong and tough enough to play that role in the Premier League.
I think (for what it's worth!) that Bojan's best position is a classic number 10, floating about behind the front man, using the space from the striker's runs to attack from a little deeper. He can play the striker and wide men in, and we've already seen that he is lethal around the box. I thought his first goal in Germany, where he was moving right then fired it so fast left of the keeper was amazing. The speed of the shot and the power he gets from virtually no backlift, while he's running with the ball is a rare talent.
Maybe, if he plays Arnie and Bojan wide with Mame up front, they are good enough to form a really fluid partnership and swap positions.
Just can't wait to see how it pans out.
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Post by Linx on Aug 13, 2014 10:34:29 GMT
I enjoyed it but I think he was inaccurate with his reasoning over Tuncay and Gudjohnsson. His chronology is way off: Tuncay came in our first Prem season, as part of our strategy to hang on to our place, not as part of taking us to the next level once consolidation had been achieved. As for Gudjohnsson, I'm still not sure to this day what that was all about, same as Michael Owen: they were part of somebody at the club thinking we needed a marquee signing to look like a proper Premier League Club, but neither player was fit enough for Stoke, or was the kind of striker to fit our system; they needed a creative midfield to give them lots of service, not chase long balls a la SJW. Pulis made some strange signings, it has to be said.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 13, 2014 10:42:41 GMT
I think his best position is playing as a false number 9 and I firmly believe we should play him as one. For me we're going to need our wide men to track back and cover their full backs in the Premiership. If Ireland gets injured, then I don't think there's any harm in trying him there but I wouldn't do it in the first instance. For me it's going to have to be either DIouf or Bojan but not both, that is unless Diouf plays on the right. I slightly disagree there, because I'm not absolutely convinced by the whole false 9 thing. When Spain destroyed Italy (?) in the Euro final, it really clicked, but they had so many good attacking one touch players. I'm not sure yet whether Bojan is physically strong and tough enough to play that role in the Premier League.
I think (for what it's worth!) that Bojan's best position is a classic number 10, floating about behind the front man, using the space from the striker's runs to attack from a little deeper. He can play the striker and wide men in, and we've already seen that he is lethal around the box. I thought his first goal in Germany, where he was moving right then fired it so fast left of the keeper was amazing. The speed of the shot and the power he gets from virtually no backlift, while he's running with the ball is a rare talent.
Maybe, if he plays Arnie and Bojan wide with Mame up front, they are good enough to form a really fluid partnership and swap positions.
Just can't wait to see how it pans out.
Against Betis Bojan and Diouf were continuously switching positions but what was very noticeable, was that when Diouf was on the right he was disciplined enough to keep his position when we weren't in possession and was more than happy to track back and cover Bardsley, Bojan on the other hand didn't track back once, not once and repeatedly kept wandering into the centre. Bojan has said that he considers himself to be a striker and that he feels he didn't do well at Ajax because they played him wide. He might be able to play the role that Ireland plays although I'm not aware of him having played that role anywhere before and interestingly Hughes hasn't played him there since his debut game. I think it'd be a heck of a gamble to drop Ireland now - he's been our best player in preseason IMO. |
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Aug 13, 2014 11:05:52 GMT
It's a different role from Ireland. Ireland is a genuine attacking midfielder. He's got the lungs and legs to get forward from a defensive shape.
I reckon Bojan's a second, deeper striker -like I said, a proper number 10. He would play much higher up the pitch than Ireland, which would maybe have to leave us with a midfield 4.
I'm not sure how it will all work out, but have total faith in Mark Hughes.
Back to the Guardian article, just how shrewd was Peter Coates to recruit MH? We are so lucky to have such a wealthy benefactor AND such a good football man at the top of our club.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2014 14:48:02 GMT
Good read. I saw it earlier and I'm convinced it read "the guile of Stephen Ireland, Charlie Adam or Brek Shea" (I had to read it twice) Have we been setting him straight on Brek Shea's guile?  "but if he’s feeling brave, or if the opposition are feeling cowardly, can insert the guile of Stephen Ireland and Charlie Adam or the pace of Brek Shea and whichever other winger arrives." |
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Post by Gods on Aug 13, 2014 15:29:03 GMT
This is SO TRUE  "Hughes is not so much charmless as charmophobic, paranoia lurking where joy usually blooms." It's no bad thing either. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 13, 2014 18:43:57 GMT
It's a different role from Ireland. Ireland is a genuine attacking midfielder. He's got the lungs and legs to get forward from a defensive shape. I reckon Bojan's a second, deeper striker -like I said, a proper number 10. He would play much higher up the pitch than Ireland, which would maybe have to leave us with a midfield 4. I'm not sure how it will all work out, but have total faith in Mark Hughes. Back to the Guardian article, just how shrewd was Peter Coates to recruit MH? We are so lucky to have such a wealthy benefactor AND such a good football man at the top of our club. So you're talking about 4-4-2 then? There's not really anything to suggest that Hughes is interested in playing that is there? |
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Post by jezzascfc on Aug 13, 2014 20:25:03 GMT
Bojan is a false 9, but given the physical demands of being the focal point of an attack in the Premier League, we are unlikely to play him there all the time. Diouf is far more suited to that front running role in English football. The compromise we seem to be settling on involves Bojan being given a free role to drift in from the right, with limited, if any, defensive duties, and Diouf pulling out wide to the right when he does so. Where this leaves our right back when we are defending is anyone's guess, although I suppose it falls to one of the two deeper-lying central midfielders to move across and cover.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 13, 2014 20:34:41 GMT
I'm fairly sure Hughes isn't 100% who will start himself but I am positive it will be the 4-2-3-1 that became the staple after the confusion of the early games last season.
The only matters to be decided are
Wilson or Huth at CB- Wilson is clear favourite
Pieters or Muniesa at LB - Think it will be Pieters but wouldn't hang my hat on it
Bojan or Odemwingie at AMR - I think he'll start Bojan myself and he will float about, with Diouf trying to cover and Bardsley in all honesty being pretty exposed
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 13, 2014 20:40:06 GMT
Jez and Sheikhy yep agree with both of your posts there, however what do you think we'll do with Bojan if we sign Yammy/some other right winger?
It will surely become a choice of EITHER he or Diouf playing up top then wouldn't it?
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 13, 2014 20:45:56 GMT
Jez and Sheikhy yep agree with both of your posts there, however what do you think we'll do with Bojan if we sign Yammy/some other right winger? It will surely become a choice of EITHER he or Diouf playing up top then wouldn't it? Without fundamentally changing the system (which he's showed no inclination to do) it would seem that way, Paul. |
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Aug 13, 2014 21:27:54 GMT
I like this term "false 9" and look forward to discussing the "pretend 5", "imitation 10" and "masquerading 7". As with many things now taken for granted in football like time allowed for the taking of an already awarded penalty at the end of a game, Stoke City were instrumental in its introduction. We were fist in with this type of terminology by describing the contribution of a useless centre forward who not only hardly ever scored a goal but hadn't a clue on how to take up positions in the penalty area where he just might be dangerous as the "Mama Role"!!! |
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Aug 13, 2014 23:58:22 GMT
I like seeing the Jones-Odemwingie swap called "a ludicrous hustle".
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Post by mailman44 on Aug 14, 2014 0:30:59 GMT
I like this term "false 9" and look forward to discussing the "pretend 5", "imitation 10" and "masquerading 7". As with many things now taken for granted in football like time allowed for the taking of an already awarded penalty at the end of a game, Stoke City were instrumental in its introduction. We were fist in with this type of terminology by describing the contribution of a useless centre forward who not only hardly ever scored a goal but hadn't a clue on how to take up positions in the penalty area where he just might be dangerous as the "Mama Role"!!! Only a matter of time before you can select "Mama's Role" under player role on a forward in Football Manager. |
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Post by boskampsflaps on Aug 14, 2014 1:01:44 GMT
Why, it's only on here people have written him off after hardly seeing him, any way thanks for the link, was a good read, interesting that he doesn't think Bojan should be stuck wide, which from what I've seen so far completely agree. |
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Post by mccfred on Aug 14, 2014 1:38:05 GMT
Nice read! but I'm beginning to suspect that nobody plans on pronouncing Bojan's name correctly! |
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