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Post by mermaidsal on Aug 14, 2014 21:34:12 GMT
Think yourselves lucky that you can get in and see something. My mate had a severe stroke at the Spurs game in April and is not in a good way at all. He is desperate to see his beloved Stoke again while he still can. He's been told by the Club that there's a waiting list for a spot in the disabled section. FFS Stoke you can do better than this. Rant over Good luck to him, both getting a spot at the Brit and in his recovery. xx We should have more discretionary spots for supporters who are temorarily or newly disabled. If we weren't doing so well it would be easier, victims of our own success in that sense.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Aug 16, 2014 7:33:34 GMT
It is simply unacceptable to have a situation where wheelchair users cannot see the pitch at moments of excitement, let alone for longer periods. It's an architectural design fault, based on the patently unrealistic assumption that those in the seats immediately in front will remain seated at all times. There has to be a commitment from the Club to find a solution to this somehow, and I hope the Supporters Council will insist on that.
Raising the height by a ramp seems the obvious starting point, but if, for whatever technical reason, that is genuinely impracticable, then taking out some seats in front may be the only solution. Such a relocation would obviously be very unpopular with those who occupy them, for very understandable reasons. In that case it would only be reasonable to considerably reward them financially (e.g refund of season ticket cost for at least this season, probably much longer) and give them top priority in choosing seats for next season.
It's the club's fault (albeit not the current leadership) so it's the club which must meet the cost of solving it. It's a pity because the location of the disability bays is very good - spread around the ground and on the same level as the entry points. Much better than large dedicated disability areas or having wheelchair spaces at pitch level.
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Post by lordb on Aug 16, 2014 7:49:03 GMT
Moxey out
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 18, 2014 17:05:22 GMT
We have a corner of the ground that is ready for building and disabled fans can't see the pitch, it's just not good enough. Get the corner filled in and incorporate a disabled area into it. Come on Stoke lets get it done. Filling a corner in that is specifically designed for disabled (ramps,lifts, etc.) is an excellent opportunity for Stoke to demonstrate it's social awareness and set a landmark. There are probably many disabled who do not attend matches because of all the hassles they have to contend with, so the expenditure would increase attendance and give some return on capital invested.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Aug 19, 2014 7:10:20 GMT
It is simply unacceptable to have a situation where wheelchair users cannot see the pitch at moments of excitement, let alone for longer periods. It's an architectural design fault, based on the patently unrealistic assumption that those in the seats immediately in front will remain seated at all times. There has to be a commitment from the Club to find a solution to this somehow, and I hope the Supporters Council will insist on that. Raising the height by a ramp seems the obvious starting point, but if, for whatever technical reason, that is genuinely impracticable, then taking out some seats in front may be the only solution. Such a relocation would obviously be very unpopular with those who occupy them, for very understandable reasons. In that case it would only be reasonable to considerably reward them financially (e.g refund of season ticket cost for at least this season, probably much longer) and give them top priority in choosing seats for next season. It's the club's fault ( albeit not the current leadership) so it's the club which must meet the cost of solving it. It's a pity because the location of the disability bays is very good - spread around the ground and on the same level as the entry points. Much better than large dedicated disability areas or having wheelchair spaces at pitch level. Different Chief Executives, Malcolm, but Peter Coates was Chairman (and majority shareholder) at the time the Brit was designed - and he is Chairman (and his family company is the majority shareholder) now. If I were Peter Coates I'd have tasked Tony Scholes to sort this festering problem out long before now. I love what Peter and his family have done for this club in recent years but he (and the family) seem to have a bit of a blind spot where this is concerned. We will have an income of £90 million near enough this year, that we can't spare the cash to sort this problem out beggars belief. It is sadly symptomatic of the club's attention to detail. How many years have we had to put up with a sub standard sound system or the inability to have a properly designed queuing system at the kiosks - the like of which my bank has had for 20 years. I realise that you are no longer on the Club Supporters Council - I find their lack of action on this as sad as the inability of the club to devote resources to it. But, wearing your FSF Chairman's hat, do the FSF have any policy on this matter and is there any pressure (legal or otherwise) that they can put on clubs to make adequate provision for disabled fans?
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Post by Stafford-Stokie on Aug 19, 2014 7:48:23 GMT
Just tell the ones in front that if they continue to stand up they will either be chucked out or moved. Why should the club have to pay out thousands when if the people in front stayed seated there wouldn't be a problem? I certainly don't agree with refunding their season ticket money if they they are forced to move. It is them that are breaking the rules. If you want to stand move nearer to the back of the stands.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Aug 19, 2014 10:37:46 GMT
It is simply unacceptable to have a situation where wheelchair users cannot see the pitch at moments of excitement, let alone for longer periods. It's an architectural design fault, based on the patently unrealistic assumption that those in the seats immediately in front will remain seated at all times. There has to be a commitment from the Club to find a solution to this somehow, and I hope the Supporters Council will insist on that. Raising the height by a ramp seems the obvious starting point, but if, for whatever technical reason, that is genuinely impracticable, then taking out some seats in front may be the only solution. Such a relocation would obviously be very unpopular with those who occupy them, for very understandable reasons. In that case it would only be reasonable to considerably reward them financially (e.g refund of season ticket cost for at least this season, probably much longer) and give them top priority in choosing seats for next season. It's the club's fault ( albeit not the current leadership) so it's the club which must meet the cost of solving it. It's a pity because the location of the disability bays is very good - spread around the ground and on the same level as the entry points. Much better than large dedicated disability areas or having wheelchair spaces at pitch level. Different Chief Executives, Malcolm, but Peter Coates was Chairman (and majority shareholder) at the time the Brit was designed - and he is Chairman (and his family company is the majority shareholder) now. If I were Peter Coates I'd have tasked Tony Scholes to sort this festering problem out long before now. I love what Peter and his family have done for this club in recent years but he (and the family) seem to have a bit of a blind spot where this is concerned. We will have an income of £90 million near enough this year, that we can't spare the cash to sort this problem out beggars belief. It is sadly symptomatic of the club's attention to detail. How many years have we had to put up with a sub standard sound system or the inability to have a properly designed queuing system at the kiosks - the like of which my bank has had for 20 years. I realise that you are no longer on the Club Supporters Council - I find their lack of action on this as sad as the inability of the club to devote resources to it. But, wearing your FSF Chairman's hat, do the FSF have any policy on this matter and is there any pressure (legal or otherwise) that they can put on clubs to make adequate provision for disabled fans? To answer your specific question, John, the FSF certainly has a policy that disabled fans should not be discriminated in any way, and not being able to see the game certainly constitutes discrimination, as indeed does not having sufficient places for supporters with disabilities. I think we are "mid table" on that one compared with other PL clubs. Level Playing Field, the national organisation campaigning on behalf of fans with disabilities, who are the experts on this, have raised this issue over a period of time in relation to both the away and home ends at the Brit. and indeed seats have been netted off in the away end ( which of course is easy to do). I understand that Anthony Emmerson for the Club, Level Playing Field and the Supporters Council Chair are now actively looking at possible solutions, with meetings coming up, so hopefully a solution will be found.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Aug 19, 2014 10:48:29 GMT
Just tell the ones in front that if they continue to stand up they will either be chucked out or moved. Why should the club have to pay out thousands when if the people in front stayed seated there wouldn't be a problem? I certainly don't agree with refunding their season ticket money if they they are forced to move. It is them that are breaking the rules. If you want to stand move nearer to the back of the stands. If only it were that simple. It's not about persistent standing but standing at moments of excitement, which a great many fans sometimes do, and is explicitly accepted by football clubs. But in any case, the seats in front of the disability areas are at the back of their blocks, so their occupants may not be the cause of the problem and may themselves be forced to stand if they want to see. The solution has to be realistic - and throwing out large numbers of people isn't realistic IMHO.
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Post by ************** on Aug 20, 2014 9:18:37 GMT
Done. Let's get this sorted.
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Post by viewfromthecrowsnest on Aug 20, 2014 15:04:35 GMT
We have a corner of the ground that is ready for building and disabled fans can't see the pitch, it's just not good enough. Get the corner filled in and incorporate a disabled area into it. Come on Stoke lets get it done. In fact as far as I know, the proposed building plans for the corner have purpose buit disabled areas across the top, all accessed by two lifts, wheelchair users would have a bloody good and unobstructed view if those plans came to fruition. Click on link to see plans then view the PDF doc on row 6 'floor plans'... planning.stoke.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=_STOKE_DCAPR_60369
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2014 16:53:46 GMT
We have a corner of the ground that is ready for building and disabled fans can't see the pitch, it's just not good enough. Get the corner filled in and incorporate a disabled area into it. Come on Stoke lets get it done. In fact as far as I know, the proposed building plans for the corner have purpose buit disabled areas across the top, all accessed by two lifts, wheelchair users would have a bloody good and unobstructed view if those plans came to fruition. Click on link to see plans then view the PDF doc on row 6 'floor plans'... planning.stoke.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=_STOKE_DCAPR_60369There are already approx 100 wheelchair spaces and the few extra spaces in the new proposals will only help a few people.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Aug 20, 2014 18:09:22 GMT
There are already approx 100 wheelchair spaces and the few extra spaces in the new proposals will only help a few people. Yes, the new stand adds about 6% to the capacity of the Brit. It might also add 20% to the capacity of the Wheelchair spaces which, even if 20 Wheelchair users moved to the new stand would still leave 80 with the current problems and if the wheelchair fans increased in number the additional 20 would all have to put up with the existing problem. They could lose some seats in the new stand and put a second wheelchair bay in (properly designed) but it would still leave 100 spaces with a problem.
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Post by ange1 on Aug 20, 2014 18:24:24 GMT
Lakeland , the Supporters Council are actively trying to find a solution to the problem and did attend the meeting today. The Level Playing Field Association were encouraged with the discussions that took place, as was I who attended. Lack of action couldn't be further from the truth, but until a solution is found, there is nothing concrete further to report.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Aug 20, 2014 19:51:06 GMT
Lakeland , the Supporters Council are actively trying to find a solution to the problem and did attend the meeting today. The Level Playing Field Association were encouraged with the discussions that took place, as was I who attended. Lack of action couldn't be further from the truth, but until a solution is found, there is nothing concrete further to report. Angela, it is a problem that has existed since the day the Brit was opened. And that is 17 years ago. Why hasn't the club sorted this out long before now? And why hasn't the Supporters' Council pressed the club to act before now? I realise that the Supporters' Council is only 2(?) years old but why has it taken two years to get round to opening negotiations with the club. Was a new flag really a higher priority than discrimination against the disabled? There is a design fault with the disabled bays, that is quite clearly the club's responsibility and you don't need to be a disability expert to realise that the present situation is clearly discriminatory against the disabled who are in wheelchairs. I realise that as discussions have only just started, you and the council don't have anything much to report yet, and I realise that you are not responsible for what the Club says by way of public statements but after a petition and an article in the Sentinel I'd have expected a statement by the club by now making it clear that they regard this as a serious matter to which they will find a solution. Sorry to go on - and you must feel like a pig in the middle but it is often said on here that this club is "Premier League on the pitch and non league off it" - and I'm sad to say that there is a lot of truth in that.
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Post by ange1 on Aug 20, 2014 21:13:24 GMT
John, if you look back at minutes of the meetings, you will see that we have brought this matter to the club's attention several times in the last two years discussing the situation with the club at length. It is difficult at times to please anybody, let alone everybody. Whilst as a club we may not be perfect, I believe those in positions of power are trying to change matters for the better. If I didn't I would not be wasting my team trying to help improve matters for fans and I think other Council members feel the same.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Aug 20, 2014 21:43:11 GMT
Angela, could you prompt the club to make a statement on the issue. Now there has been a petition, a story in the Sentinel and the club have met with yourselves and the "Level Playing Field Association" surely the club is inviting a bit of a PR disaster if it doesn't make a statement emphasising that they ARE now taking this seriously and perhaps even apologising for the lack of action for 17 years. They could even call for ideas as to how the problem should be solved - many heads are better than one!
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Post by ange1 on Aug 21, 2014 16:07:19 GMT
John, already done. TBH the problem did not exist when the stadium was half full. Thanks for your comments
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Post by wembley4372 on Aug 21, 2014 16:51:00 GMT
John, already done. TBH the problem did not exist when the stadium was half full. Thanks for your comments If they only let in disabled supporters and their helpers the problem wouldn't exist!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 21, 2014 17:39:39 GMT
There is only a few ways to solve it, none of them will happen one shouldn't and one just won't, it's so pointless.
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Post by delilah7 on Aug 22, 2014 6:28:43 GMT
What did Middlesbrough and Derby do about this problem, the stadium designs were basically the same when built and both had a period of success that resulted in expanding their stadiums. So surely they had this very same issue?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2014 6:37:17 GMT
Just corden off the row of seats directly in front of the disabled area next season if they don't want to spend
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Aug 22, 2014 7:00:21 GMT
Just corden off the row of seats directly in front of the disabled area next season if they don't want to spend Yes that is the easiest and cheapest option - although it might be 2 rows that would be needed. Of course it isn't a nice or a fair option for those poor souls who would have to find new season ticket seats which would almost certainly be less to their liking!
It seems to me that the best time to have implemented that option would have been in the years before we reached the Prem. In those days only a third of the seats at the Brit were occupied by Season Ticket holders so there would have been plenty of good seats available for people to move to. Now, about 88% of the seats (22k of 25K)are occupied by season ticket holders and most of those that aren't are in less favoured positions. I know an extended family group who are in the row in front of the wheel chair bay in block 22/23 and there are, I think, 5 members in that group - the chances of them finding alternative seats together are almost NIL I should think.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Aug 22, 2014 7:08:43 GMT
John, already done. TBH the problem did not exist when the stadium was half full. Thanks for your comments Angela, the problem certainly did exist in the days before we reached the Prem. Although crowds were lower, the rows in front of many of the wheel chair bays were fully occupied by ST holders. I've had my seat a few rows above the wheelchair bay in block 22/23 for about 12 years. In the Championship the two rows of seats in front of that wheelchair bay were virtually 100% occupied by ST holders. However what was different in the Championship was that only about 33% of seats in the stadium were occupied by ST holders as opposed to 88% in the home areas today. So, as I said in my post above, it would have been a lot easier to relocate ST holders to decent alternative seats than it is now. An opportunity missed.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2014 9:14:54 GMT
Just corden off the row of seats directly in front of the disabled area next season if they don't want to spend Yes that is the easiest and cheapest option - although it might be 2 rows that would be needed. Of course it isn't a nice or a fair option for those poor souls who would have to find new season ticket seats which would almost certainly be less to their liking!
It seems to me that the best time to have implemented that option would have been in the years before we reached the Prem. In those days only a third of the seats at the Brit were occupied by Season Ticket holders so there would have been plenty of good seats available for people to move to. Now, about 88% of the seats (22k of 25K)are occupied by season ticket holders and most of those that aren't are in less favoured positions. I know an extended family group who are in the row in front of the wheel chair bay in block 22/23 and there are, I think, 5 members in that group - the chances of them finding alternative seats together are almost NIL I should think. At least they'll still see the game....besides, Id find it a blessing if my friends and family sat apart from me
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 22, 2014 9:53:08 GMT
They aren't going to corden off seats in front of the bays and rightly so imo.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2014 10:24:14 GMT
They aren't going to corden off seats in front of the bays and rightly so imo. Is that what they've said or what you think Bayern?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 26, 2014 10:29:30 GMT
They aren't going to corden off seats in front of the bays and rightly so imo. Is that what they've said or what you think Bayern? It's what I think. Commercially it makes no sense what so ever.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2014 10:43:17 GMT
Is that what they've said or what you think Bayern? It's what I think. Commercially it makes no sense what so ever. It's ok, i just wanted to know if they'd made a statement, with the way you said it it sounded that way Commercially it doesn't make sense but other ways make even less don't they? It'll cost the club whichever way won't it?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 26, 2014 10:47:24 GMT
It's what I think. Commercially it makes no sense what so ever. It's ok, i just wanted to know if they'd made a statement, with the way you said it it sounded that way Commercially it doesn't make sense but other ways make even less don't they? It'll cost the club whichever way won't it? If it was me listening to these complaints, I'd cost everything up, take a while doing and hope it goes away because in reality I know not much can be done that makes financial sense, so it won't be done. But that's just me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2014 10:50:52 GMT
It's ok, i just wanted to know if they'd made a statement, with the way you said it it sounded that way Commercially it doesn't make sense but other ways make even less don't they? It'll cost the club whichever way won't it? If it was me listening to these complaints, I'd cost everything up, take a while doing and hope it goes away because in reality I know not much can be done that makes financial sense, so it won't be done. But that's just me. Yep, you're probably right there mate
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