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Post by Squeekster on Jul 30, 2014 10:12:48 GMT
I'd prefer Redmond but i'm basing that on absolutely nothing!
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Post by Onneravineet on Jul 30, 2014 10:25:44 GMT
No, that is a statement. H
Yeah you're right but in the context of the thread I think you get my point.
Really, I should have said that I prefer Assaidi to make it into a discussion.
No, Mumf was making it a discussion in his opening post. You saying that you prefer Assaidi is again your opinion and therefore not a discussion. You are making a statement. For a discussion you could have said..."I prefer Assaidi, what does everyone else think of my opinion?" Mumf started the discussion that, to be fair, you reacted to quite uncharacteristically. Which makes me ask just how much do you "prefer" Assaidi?
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Post by mosquito on Jul 30, 2014 10:28:35 GMT
I am ITK of my own mind. And I know I would prefer Redmond. Hmmmm.. But that late winner by Asaidi, now I don't know. Damn it, I am not even ITK of my own mind
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Post by Sfance on Jul 30, 2014 10:34:18 GMT
When Mumf claims not to know something, people should take him at his word, and not criticize him for it. I for one applaud his admission.
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Post by stokiejoe on Jul 30, 2014 10:35:28 GMT
M: (Knock) A: Come in. M: Ah, Is this the right room for an argument? A: I told you once. M: No you haven't. A: Yes I have. M: When? A: Just now. M: No you didn't. A: Yes I did. M: You didn't A: I did! M: You didn't! A: I'm telling you I did! M: You did not!! A: Oh, I'm sorry, just one moment. Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour? M: Oh, just the five minutes. A: Ah, thank you. Anyway, I did. M: You most certainly did not. A: Look, let's get this thing clear; I quite definitely told you. M: No you did not. A: Yes I did. M: No you didn't. A: Yes I did. M: No you didn't. A: Yes I did. M: No you didn't. A: Yes I did. M: You didn't. A: Did. M: Oh look, this isn't an argument. A: Yes it is. M: No it isn't. It's just contradiction. A: No it isn't. M: It is! A: It is not. M: Look, you just contradicted me. A: I did not. M: Oh you did!! A: No, no, no. M: You did just then. A: Nonsense! M: Oh, this is futile! A: No it isn't. M: I came here for a good argument. A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument. M: An argument isn't just contradiction. A: It can be. M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition. A: No it isn't. M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction. A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position. M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.' A: Yes it is! M: No it isn't!
A: Yes it is! M: Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes. (short pause) A: No it isn't. M: It is. A: Not at all. M: Now look. A: (Rings bell) Good Morning. M: What? A: That's it. Good morning. M: I was just getting interested. A: Sorry, the five minutes is up. M: That was never five minutes! A: I'm afraid it was. M: It wasn't. Pause A: I'm sorry, but I'm not allowed to argue anymore. M: What?! A: If you want me to go on arguing, you'll have to pay for another five minutes. M: Yes, but that was never five minutes, just now. Oh come on! A: (Hums) M: Look, this is ridiculous. A: I'm sorry, but I'm not allowed to argue unless you've paid! M: Oh, all right. (pays money) A: Thank you. short pause M: Well? A: Well what? M: That wasn't really five minutes, just now. A: I told you, I'm not allowed to argue unless you've paid. M: I just paid! A: No you didn't. M: I DID! A: No you didn't. M: Look, I don't want to argue about that. A: Well, you didn't pay. M: Aha. If I didn't pay, why are you arguing? I Got you! A: No you haven't. M: Yes I have. If you're arguing, I must have paid. A: Not necessarily. I could be arguing in my spare time. M: Oh I've had enough of this. A: No you haven't. M: Oh Shut up.
(Walks down the stairs. Opens door.)p
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 30, 2014 10:38:32 GMT
Yeah you're right but in the context of the thread I think you get my point.
Really, I should have said that I prefer Assaidi to make it into a discussion.
No, Mumf was making it a discussion in his opening post. You saying that you prefer Assaidi is again your opinion and therefore not a discussion. You are making a statement. For a discussion you could have said..."I prefer Assaidi, what does everyone else think of my opinion?" Mumf started the discussion that, to be fair, you reacted to quite uncharacteristically. Which makes me ask just how much do you "prefer" Assaidi?
I said that if I'd said I preferred Assaidi then it would have made it into a discussion.
In answer to your question ... I don't necessarily prefer Assaidi, I was just demonstrating that if I had said that I did, then it would have become a discussion.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Jul 30, 2014 10:44:34 GMT
No, Mumf was making it a discussion in his opening post. You saying that you prefer Assaidi is again your opinion and therefore not a discussion. You are making a statement. For a discussion you could have said..."I prefer Assaidi, what does everyone else think of my opinion?" Mumf started the discussion that, to be fair, you reacted to quite uncharacteristically. Which makes me ask just how much do you "prefer" Assaidi?
I said that if I'd said I preferred Assaidi then it would have made it into a discussion.
In answer to your question ... I don't necessarily prefer Assaidi, I was just demonstrating that if I had said that I did, then it would have become a discussion.
Are we discussing what a discussion is now? Therefore has mumf's original post led to a discussion? I think it was intentional.
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Post by lordb on Jul 30, 2014 12:41:01 GMT
Is it only me who thinks we should sign both of them?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2014 12:46:13 GMT
Is it only me who thinks we should sign both of them? won't happen though i wouldn't have thought. we have Walters and PO who have predominantly spent most of their time out wide as it is, then we have Arnie out on the left already. get these 2 in and you basically then have 5 players battling for 2 positions. overkill and i can only think of Walters and Odemwingie that would accept being on the bench. Redmond isn't going to want to go somewhere he'll be a benchwarmer when he has a few clubs to pick from and Assaidi's ego has already started to show with his wage requests so i don't think he'd want too many competing for his place
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Post by stokiejoe on Jul 30, 2014 12:48:51 GMT
Is it only me who thinks we should sign both of them? We need a right sided player more than two left sided. For me Redmond first choice and Assaidi only if we don't get the MFW or Yarmolenko.
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Post by lordb on Jul 30, 2014 12:51:24 GMT
Is it only me who thinks we should sign both of them? won't happen though i wouldn't have thought. we have Walters and PO who have predominantly spent most of their time out wide as it is, then we have Arnie out on the left already. get these 2 in and you basically then have 5 players battling for 2 positions. overkill and i can only think of Walters and Odemwingie that would accept being on the bench. Redmond isn't going to want to go somewhere he'll be a benchwarmer when he has a few clubs to pick from and Assaidi's ego has already started to show with his wage requests so i don't think he'd want too many competing for his place depends on what options Redmond has. Championship Norwich 1st team or Prem club (Stoke) bench - vast majority of playesr would choose the latter if has other prem clubs who will offer a more obvious 1st team route then yes he may not come here. Odemwingie isnt going to be here for that long (shame,he's been great). Walters - much as I respect him - is surely finished at Stoke if we sign another wide player (unless Crouch goes & even then...). Assaidi will surely end up here this window one way or another. unless MFW pitches up of course
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2014 13:05:28 GMT
won't happen though i wouldn't have thought. we have Walters and PO who have predominantly spent most of their time out wide as it is, then we have Arnie out on the left already. get these 2 in and you basically then have 5 players battling for 2 positions. overkill and i can only think of Walters and Odemwingie that would accept being on the bench. Redmond isn't going to want to go somewhere he'll be a benchwarmer when he has a few clubs to pick from and Assaidi's ego has already started to show with his wage requests so i don't think he'd want too many competing for his place depends on what options Redmond has. Championship Norwich 1st team or Prem club (Stoke) bench - vast majority of playesr would choose the latter if has other prem clubs who will offer a more obvious 1st team route then yes he may not come here. Odemwingie isnt going to be here for that long (shame,he's been great). Walters - much as I respect him - is surely finished at Stoke if we sign another wide player (unless Crouch goes & even then...). Assaidi will surely end up here this window one way or another. unless MFW pitches up of course by the sounds of it both Newcastle and Southampton are in for Redmond now as well (and both will probably play him regularly and pay more than us...Newcastle splash daft wages around all the time and Southampton have shit loads of money now and need to do what they can to sign anyone to make up for all the players they've lost). personally i'd rather have Redmond out of the two, ditch Assaidi and keep PO going as long as we can. obviously they tended to operate different sides but PO was more of a consistent threat when he played than Assaidi was. yes, he scored a couple of cracking goals (especially the winner against Chelsea) but apart from that Assaidi is made out to be far far more on here than he actually was in reality for most of the games he played in.
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Post by sportsman on Jul 30, 2014 13:14:27 GMT
Can't believe people on here wouldn't take assaidi. He was and still is my priority signing of the summer. Sign him and I will put my neck on the line and say he will end up being the best winger we've had in years.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2014 13:37:06 GMT
Can't believe people on here wouldn't take assaidi. He was and still is my priority signing of the summer. Sign him and I will put my neck on the line and say he will end up being the best winger we've had in years.based on what though exactly? most games he doesn't achieve anything at all, especially nothing that no-one else in the team could do without him being there. i suspect that if he hadn't scored THAT goal against Chelsea that most of the Ossie Jizzfest simply wouldn't exist....getting excited over one world class moment when in reality he's achieved little else other than cross it about as well as Geoff Cameron does and 9/10 not even being able to get a cross in before he loses it! there's a reason he's largely been a bench warmer for most of his time here either being brought on or being taken off if he started. he's an ok player but that kind of hyperbole is ludicrous mate based on what we've seen of him so far!
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Post by sportsman on Jul 30, 2014 13:52:42 GMT
I'm basing it on the fact that he showed when fit how good he is going down the wing in various games, especially that last home game, albeit against Fulham.
He still showed all the tricks, stepovers, direct, pace, awareness. He has also shown he has a cracking shot and aim in him more than once in the top corner from distance.
The fact also that Hughes and the players have seen exactly what he can do and have said they'd love have him back.
A season with us already and if we can sign him he will settle straight in and should be up and running if he has been involved in pre season somewhere.
like I said, my opinion, just going on pure ability and what he's capable of.
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Post by sportsman on Jul 30, 2014 13:56:07 GMT
Only 25 as well so his best years are to come.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2014 14:01:36 GMT
I'm basing it on the fact that he showed when fit how good he is going down the wing in various games, especially that last home game, albeit against Fulham. He still showed all the tricks, stepovers, direct, pace, awareness. He has also shown he has a cracking shot and aim in him more than once in the top corner from distance. The fact also that Hughes and the players have seen exactly what he can do and have said they'd love have him back. A season with us already and if we can sign him he will settle straight in and should be up and running if he has been involved in pre season somewhere. like I said, my opinion, just going on pure ability and what he's capable of. yes he's got skills, stepovers etc. but the vast majority of those result in throw ins or him going out wide and getting blocked off. there's only any point to those skills if there's an end result otherwise he may as well just not have them. let's not pretend he's using them with any kind of end product....0 assists all last season and mostly struggles to get any kind of decent cross in. as i said, there's a reason why he mostly starts then gets taken off or just comes on for the last 25 mins of a game. if he had the potential to be the best winger we've had at the club for years he'd have been starting week in week out and the coaching team just didn't see the need to do that at all, he was a useful squad player but has done nothing to justify that kind of expectation in my opinion. he's got a hell of a long way to go to eclipse Ethers when he was fully fit and he was already 28, had had shit loads of clubs and needed his entire career reviving as he was on a downward slide and i'd still take that Ethers over Ossie any day of the week and twice on Sunday.not even in the same ballpark as Matty was for us back then.
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Post by sportsman on Jul 30, 2014 14:11:01 GMT
Last season he spent time on the bench as he had niggles and injuries that stopped him having a good run of games.
if we sign him and he stays fit then like I said he has the ability and time to be our best in my opinion. It can be discussed all day and night but nothing can be proven until he signs and play so pointless really.
lets wait and see if he signs then wait and see who ends up right.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Jul 30, 2014 14:35:51 GMT
I agree with MMLC that he'd have to 'go some' to outdo Ethers at his best for Stoke but I do think he looks a talented lad and, over all, I was pleased with what he did for Stoke last season. Yes he runs into blind alleys too often and his delivery needs to improve but I'd say the same about a number of much more 'high profile', higher value wingers in the Premier League. I don't worry about the 'assists' statistics because (as with so many statistics) they are very misleading as it's simply a measure of who played the ball last before the fella that scored and completely ignores any major part he may have played in the move for the goal other than that. Is he really a winger that gets down the line and puts balls into the box, which we appear to be judging him on, or is he a wide player that likes to cut infield and link up with advancing midfield players as well as the front man. I suggest the evidence points to the latter and I think he does it very well. I may be mistaken but I believe he also scored 5 goals which (if true) is another plus for a wide player. MMLC is right that he hasn't done anything outstanding (the Chelsea goal apart) but he's looked pretty good, is only 23 and (IMO) would be a very useful signing. I don't like the idea of having to pay up to 7 Million for him but then I look at the fees being paid and I find it all completely mental.
I like Redmond too and would be happy to have him at Stoke but he wasn't exactly brilliant last season either and I think he'll cost more and we'll probably lose out to Southampton/Newcastle anyway. We should have tried much harder to sign him when he left Brum for £3 Million and I said so at the time.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2014 14:43:58 GMT
I agree with MMLC that he'd have to 'go some' to outdo Ethers at his best for Stoke but I do think he looks a talented lad and, over all, I was pleased with what he did for Stoke last season. Yes he runs into blind alleys too often and his delivery needs to improve but I'd say the same about a number of much more 'high profile', higher value wingers in the Premier League. I don't worry about the 'assists' statistics because (as with so many statistics) they are very misleading as it's simply a measure of who played the ball last before the fella that scored and completely ignores any major part he may have played in the move for the goal other than that. Is he really a winger that gets down the line and puts balls into the box, which we appear to be judging him on, or is he a wide player that likes to cut infield and link up with advancing midfield players as well as the front man. I suggest the evidence points to the latter and I think he does it very well. I may be mistaken but I believe he also scored 5 goals which (if true) is another plus for a wide player. MMLC is right that he hasn't done anything outstanding (the Chelsea goal apart) but he's looked pretty good, is only 23 and (IMO) would be a very useful signing. I don't like the idea of having to pay up to 7 Million for him but then I look at the fees being paid and I find it all completely mental. agree with that and apologies to sportsman if he got the impression i didn't rate Ossie at all. i do but i also think he's being massively overrated on here based on what he's done so far and i don't think we'd be talking about him nearly as much if it wasn't for that one goal against Chelsea. decent player to have in the squad but for 7-8 mill??? no chance! why Liverpool seem to think that playing 50% of one season (most of those he didn't even play the full game in either) justifies tripling the fee they paid for him god only knows!!! if it's a straight out choice i'd take Redmond myself and unless we ship a few out then i don't see us getting both as we'd have Arnie, Walters, Odemwingie, Assaidi and Redmond as wide men (or at least played as wide men by Hughes) for just 2 positions. if Redmond even thinks he's be no more than a sqaud player then i'd imagine he'd choose Newcastle or Southampton. if Assaidi thinks he's just going to be a squad player again then i'd guess he rather have fewer people competing for that place.as long as Arnie's here then Ossie must know he's not going to start games and i just question his reported wage demands for someone who knows he won't be a first teamer when he's only ever played 19 Premiership games in his entire career!
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Post by cheadlepotter on Jul 30, 2014 15:09:49 GMT
Sorry, who is MFW?
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Post by FullerMagic on Jul 30, 2014 15:17:05 GMT
Mathias-Friedrich Winkelstein. Young, tricky winger - plays for Hoffenheim. Nah, not really. It's the exciting Mystery Foreign Winger that we're supposedly stalking.
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Post by scfcno1fan on Jul 30, 2014 15:18:57 GMT
I find it funny but also disturbing how MFW has found its way into the everyday lingo of the oatcake.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2014 16:50:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2014 17:10:38 GMT
Well if a second bid has gone in in the last couple of days then it shouldn't be too long before we find out the outcome...perhaps tomorrow even.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2014 19:36:33 GMT
Assaidi could become the best winger in the Prem, with us behind him. Come on Assaidi, sign on the dotted line!
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Post by southcarolinastokie on Jul 30, 2014 21:41:58 GMT
Assaidi scored a couple of crackers, but was very hit and miss. If he is messing us about like has been reported then we need to move on as we can buy better with 7m. I'd like Redmond, he is like Assaidi, but has the attributes to be better. Ideally i'd love Yarmolenko if rumours are correct or Valbuena.
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Post by unknown182 on Jul 30, 2014 21:43:55 GMT
I find it funny but also disturbing how MFW has found its way into the everyday lingo of the oatcake. I think we need a pinned thread with a list Oatcake abbreviations and sayings
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Post by nott1 on Jul 30, 2014 22:10:34 GMT
Assaidi scored a couple of crackers, but was very hit and miss. If he is messing us about like has been reported then we need to move on as we can buy better with 7m. I'd like Redmond, he is like Assaidi, but has the attributes to be better. Ideally i'd love Yarmolenko if rumours are correct or Valbuena. Assaidi will be here by Friday!
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Post by malteser68 on Jul 30, 2014 22:21:54 GMT
Can't believe people on here wouldn't take assaidi. He was and still is my priority signing of the summer. Sign him and I will put my neck on the line and say he will end up being the best winger we've had in years. I totally agree
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