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Post by chiswickpotter on Aug 26, 2015 20:05:46 GMT
Correct. It is gauged by the squad you build. Is our squad balanced? I wonder what the net spend really is. Afellay will have cost us many £Ms in hidden fees, for example, as did Diouf last year. The wage bill has probably gone up. Then there is the spend on infrastructure at Clayton Wood and the cost of bringing in the u21 lads. The next set of accounts could be interesting. with TV money flowing, hard to imagine we will not have much healthier finances over the next two sets of accounts.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Aug 26, 2015 20:43:58 GMT
Just a passing thought but if we then flog shaq for a profit next summer as is daily likely this summer would actually show a 10 million plus surplus and we could the spend 10 next summer and actually have 24 months spend free and watching he TV revenue flow totally self sufficient .
Wonder if that's crossed anyone's mind ?
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Post by Davef on Aug 26, 2015 20:47:35 GMT
Just a passing thought but if we then flog shaq for a profit next summer as is daily likely this summer would actually show a 10 million plus surplus and we could the spend 10 next summer and actually have 24 months spend free and watching he TV revenue flow totally self sufficient . Wonder if that's crossed anyone's mind ? I doubt it very much.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Aug 26, 2015 20:49:02 GMT
Just a passing thought but if we then flog shaq for a profit next summer as is daily likely this summer would actually show a 10 million plus surplus and we could the spend 10 next summer and actually have 24 months spend free and watching he TV revenue flow totally self sufficient . Wonder if that's crossed anyone's mind ? Ff I'm confused
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Post by Clayton Wood on Aug 26, 2015 20:49:27 GMT
Just a passing thought but if we then flog shaq for a profit next summer as is daily likely this summer would actually show a 10 million plus surplus and we could the spend 10 next summer and actually have 24 months spend free and watching he TV revenue flow totally self sufficient . Wonder if that's crossed anyone's mind ? And I thought you were going to ask if we would have to pay Capital Gains Tax on the surplus. Ah well.
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Post by Beardy200 on Aug 26, 2015 20:49:38 GMT
Show me where the post says Relegated or fucked It says disappointing and high risk very different . Oh i'm sorry bud, did i over emphasise my point to its maximum? You've been moaning and predicting our demise for years and it hasn't happened yet (or even come close). Is there any possibility you may look at your own views and realise they're ever so slightly extreme?
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Post by Beardy200 on Aug 26, 2015 20:51:59 GMT
Just a passing thought but if we then flog shaq for a profit next summer as is daily likely this summer would actually show a 10 million plus surplus and we could the spend 10 next summer and actually have 24 months spend free and watching he TV revenue flow totally self sufficient . Wonder if that's crossed anyone's mind ? No because you're the only person who seems to be able to completely ignore signing on fees and wages like when you keep quoting this 5 million net spend nonsense every 5 mins.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 26, 2015 20:55:36 GMT
Will Afellay be on that much? I'd be surprised if he was with the calibre of club that was after him.
Also it is a risky strategy with how we've replaced Fonz, it could make or break the season. I really do hope Van Ginkel can step up to the mark soon because if he doesn't it will mean Geoff, Sidwell or Adam there and we don't want that.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Aug 26, 2015 21:07:12 GMT
Beardy
I simply forecast in feb that out net spend would be circa £5m independent sources are now stating it at 3.2m not me .
Signing on fees are amortised over contract lifespan so actually legitimately won't feature and will net off against savings on Huth . Sorensen , begovic, nzozni , palacios , wilkinson , Moses .
And it's in that list that our problem lies as Moses on the left and nzozni on the middle simply haven't been replaced add that to I Ryan's absence and we have a materially weaker first team .
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Post by Beardy200 on Aug 26, 2015 21:19:26 GMT
Beardy I simply forecast in feb that out net spend would be circa £5m independent sources are now stating it at 3.2m not me . Signing on fees are amortised over contract lifespan so actually legitimately won't feature and will net off against savings on Huth . Sorensen , begovic, nzozni , palacios , wilkinson , Moses . And it's in that list that our problem lies as Moses on the left and nzozni on the middle simply haven't been replaced add that to I Ryan's absence and we have a materially weaker first team . Thos numbers are just basic, blinkered figures though, looking at a small part of the total figures. e.g Team A gets Player A for free and give him a 6 million signing on fee. Team B gets Player B for 4 Million and give him a 2 million signing on fee. In your basic view (and your independant sources) Team A has spent nothing while Team B has spent 4 million when in reality both have spent the same, 6 million. I don't give a shit if the signing on fee is paid over the length of the contract or not, it's still spent or 'allocated' if you prefer. If i buy a sofa on a credit card my net spend isn't zero because i pay nothing straight away and this is the same.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Aug 26, 2015 21:28:00 GMT
It's included in your wage bill ( your montjly repayments ) and reported as such for the following 4 years or however long the contract , so just like your credit card you pay it once either all up front or over time not both .
You can twist the numbers however you choose but the simple facts are we are investing at a far lower rate to our main competitor set and absolutely at odds with what the manger said in May when he said he wanted players at the top end of the squad . This could with the loss of critical players in Nzozy , Moses and shawcross make us materially weaker and the three results and performances to date v last years results suggest that's absolutely the case .
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Aug 26, 2015 21:30:11 GMT
Just a passing thought but if we then flog shaq for a profit next summer as is daily likely this summer would actually show a 10 million plus surplus and we could the spend 10 next summer and actually have 24 months spend free and watching he TV revenue flow totally self sufficient . Wonder if that's crossed anyone's mind ? No because you're the only person who seems to be able to completely ignore signing on fees and wages like when you keep quoting this 5 million net spend nonsense every 5 mins. Nobody's ignoring anything! Net spend is only £3.2m. We're talking about transfer fees. These are what the media track. Wages include signing on fees and will be handsomely covered by future t.v. monies providing we stay in the EPL.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 26, 2015 21:36:06 GMT
I 4 1 am very happy with what the club has achieved this window. We have a huge amount of talent in the squad and despite what some posters on Oatcake may believe IMO we have no "duck eggs" like Palacios. OK a good number of them are not going to in the 1st choice XI of clubs like Liverpool, Spurs and above, or the top continental clubs, but then neither are N'Zonzi or Begovic (a reserve player). Nevertheless there is now a core of talent that could be playing for such top teams and they are now playing for us. What matters now is developing team work to create what I believe could be a superb team, but that takes time and a lot of hard work. Buying Yarmo to me would be putting the cherry on top of the icing of the cake. We've got a gaping hole at the back and so far we've got in the midfield too. It's been a great window. By gaping hole at the back I assume you mean the absence of Ryan due to his operation. That was not foreseeable, unless you subscribe to the view that Ryan should have been operated on sooner, which is contrary to accepted medical practice. The gaping hole in the mid-field no doubt refers to the fact that MH has yet to develop a successful strategy to replace N'Zonzi. I think everyone knew it would be difficult including MH who tried to persuade him to stay. I'm confident there is sufficient talent in the squad now to develop a superb team in all aspects.
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Post by Beardy200 on Aug 26, 2015 21:37:14 GMT
It's included in your wage bill ( your montjly repayments ) and reported as such for the following 4 years or however long the contract , so just like your credit card you pay it once either all up front or over time not both . You can twist the numbers however you choose but the simple facts are we are investing at a far lower rate to our main competitor set and absolutely at odds with what the manger said in May when he said he wanted players at the top end of the squad . This could with the loss of critical players in Nzozy , Moses and shawcross make us materially weaker and the three results and performances to date v last years results suggest that's absolutely the case . To be fair mate it's you who's twisting the numbers as you seem to be implying that money spent on signing on fees spread over 3 years can be ignored. The accountants will look at the total cost of signing a player over the length of contract not just how much we spend on the transfer fee. THAT is the money 'invested'. You however, always look for the worst figures (or best as you're concerned) as it means you can criticise just as you've done for as long as i've seen you on here, which is years. Answer me this: Have you or have you not predicted doom for us every season for years? Has it ever happened or even come close to what you predicted? Hence, can you see or even understand why your views could be tiresome for us?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 26, 2015 21:40:57 GMT
We've got a gaping hole at the back and so far we've got in the midfield too. It's been a great window. By gaping hole at the back I assume you mean the absence of Ryan due to his operation. That was not foreseeable, unless you subscribe to the view that Ryan should have been operated on sooner, which is contrary to accepted medical practice. The gaping hole in the mid-field no doubt refers to the fact that MH has yet to develop a successful strategy to replace N'Zonzi. I think everyone knew it would be difficult including MH who tried to persuade him to stay. I'm confident there is sufficient talent in the squad now to develop a superb team in all aspects. They foresaw it in early July I'm lead to believe (and that's just when I was told)...... It would and we're going with a green as fook kid to do the hardest bit of transition needed. It's a bold, risky strategy that I hope to God works.
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Aug 26, 2015 21:48:16 GMT
It's included in your wage bill ( your montjly repayments ) and reported as such for the following 4 years or however long the contract , so just like your credit card you pay it once either all up front or over time not both . You can twist the numbers however you choose but the simple facts are we are investing at a far lower rate to our main competitor set and absolutely at odds with what the manger said in May when he said he wanted players at the top end of the squad . This could with the loss of critical players in Nzozy , Moses and shawcross make us materially weaker and the three results and performances to date v last years results suggest that's absolutely the case . To be fair mate it's you who's twisting the numbers as you seem to be implying that money spent on signing on fees spread over 3 years can be ignored. The accountants will look at the total cost of signing a player over the length of contract not just how much we spend on the transfer fee. THAT is the money 'invested'. You however, always look for the worst figures (or best as you're concerned) as it means you can criticise just as you've done for as long as i've seen you on here, which is years. Answer me this: Have you or have you not predicted doom for us every season for years? Has it ever happened or even come close to what you predicted? Hence, can you see or even understand why your views could be tiresome for us? What the club spends on transfer fees is a verifiable FACT! I deal in facts mate, I'll let you deal in innuendo and smears! As for SCFC's likely standing this season, I haven't commented so if you get tired about nothing I suggest you see a doctor?!
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Post by Beardy200 on Aug 26, 2015 21:50:32 GMT
To be fair mate it's you who's twisting the numbers as you seem to be implying that money spent on signing on fees spread over 3 years can be ignored. The accountants will look at the total cost of signing a player over the length of contract not just how much we spend on the transfer fee. THAT is the money 'invested'. You however, always look for the worst figures (or best as you're concerned) as it means you can criticise just as you've done for as long as i've seen you on here, which is years. Answer me this: Have you or have you not predicted doom for us every season for years? Has it ever happened or even come close to what you predicted? Hence, can you see or even understand why your views could be tiresome for us? What the club spends on transfer fees is a verifiable FACT! I deal in facts mate, I'll let you deal in innuendo and smears! As for SCFC's likely standing this season, I haven't commented so if you get tired about nothing I suggest you see a doctor?! I need a doctor? Smears and innuendo? I wasn't even talking to you so have no idea what you're on about ya daft sod. Unless of course, benji and nick are one in the same. Hmmmmm.
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Post by march4 on Aug 26, 2015 21:51:08 GMT
As a matter of academic curiosity, how much do we think the signing on fees were for; 1) Diouf 2) Afellay 3) Johnson
a)£1m?, b)£5M?, c)£10M, d)£20M?, e)£50M?
Include agents' fees if possible.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Aug 26, 2015 21:58:51 GMT
Beardy
You clearly believe we have invested independent observers suggest different but of course it's your right or argue differently .
However invested or not consensus suggests we are much weaker post summer than pre and early results and performances bear that out .
Either way invested and consequently misdirected or under invested which I absolutely believe we've made a pigs ears of this summer as things stand
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Aug 26, 2015 22:02:41 GMT
As a matter of academic curiosity, how much do we think the signing on fees were for; 1) Diouf 2) Afellay 3) Johnson a)£1m?, b)£5M?, c)£10M, d)£20M?, e)£50M? Include agents' fees if possible. Nobody knows which is why every site such as Sky Sports concentrates on transfer fees. Even loan fees are often cloaked in secrecy. As for wages, how can anyone track what JW might sign up to. I can't see Mr Walters or Mr Scholes blabbing it all over The Sentinel, can you? But FFP restricts wage increases to ensure they are affordable. So, SCFC will have only agreed to what within our wages cap we could afford!
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Aug 26, 2015 22:04:25 GMT
What the club spends on transfer fees is a verifiable FACT! I deal in facts mate, I'll let you deal in innuendo and smears! As for SCFC's likely standing this season, I haven't commented so if you get tired about nothing I suggest you see a doctor?! I need a doctor? Smears and innuendo? I wasn't even talking to you so have no idea what you're on about ya daft sod. Unless of course, benji and nick are one in the same. Hmmmmm. You're still dealing in insults!
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Post by MrMagic on Aug 26, 2015 22:09:03 GMT
Beardy You clearly believe we have invested independent observers suggest different but of course it's your right or argue differently . However invested or not consensus suggests we are much weaker post summer than pre and early results and performances bear that out . Either way invested and consequently misdirected or under invested which I absolutely believe we've made a pigs ears of this summer as things stand No they bloody don't. We lost to Liverpool to a worldy. One goal. We were commended by the media for a great second half comeback against Spurs away and we were poor but got a point at Norwich. How does that bear out that we are weaker? The mind fucking boggles
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Post by liveattheoasis on Aug 26, 2015 22:13:04 GMT
You tend to overthink things when you pay them too much attention. Ergo about half the members of the board.
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Post by discokaraoke on Aug 26, 2015 22:16:00 GMT
Correct. It is gauged by the squad you build. Is our squad balanced? I wonder what the net spend really is. Afellay will have cost us many £Ms in hidden fees, for example, as did Diouf last year. The wage bill has probably gone up. Then there is the spend on infrastructure at Clayton Wood and the cost of bringing in the u21 lads. The next set of accounts could be interesting. At last, a poster who understands our business this window. On top of that, we have recouped 18 mill on 3 players we paid 12 mill in first place. So a rough profit of 6 mill before our spending this summer.
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Aug 26, 2015 22:16:20 GMT
Beardy You clearly believe we have invested independent observers suggest different but of course it's your right or argue differently . However invested or not consensus suggests we are much weaker post summer than pre and early results and performances bear that out . Either way invested and consequently misdirected or under invested which I absolutely believe we've made a pigs ears of this summer as things stand No they bloody don't. We lost to Liverpool to a worldy. One goal. We were commended by the media for a great second half comeback against Spurs away and we were poor but got a point at Norwich. How does that bear out that we are weaker? The mind fucking boggles In truth, we are stronger in attack and weaker in midfield and defence but Ryan's absence explains the latter. It so happens against the same or similar fixtures last season we are 5 points down! Now, this is not an indicator of progress!
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Aug 26, 2015 22:25:24 GMT
Your in denial if you believe a five points lower haul Form the same fixtures is anything but regression , but candidly but we only need 3 pints from the next 4 games assuming your comfortable we will win at Man city and Everton this year .
Said 3 weeks ago I'd take 40 points and 17th now and I genuinely would .
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Aug 26, 2015 22:29:19 GMT
Your in denial if you believe a five points lower haul Form the same fixtures is anything but regression , but candidly but we only need 3 pints from the next 4 games assuming your comfortable we will win at Man city and Everton this year . Said 3 weeks ago I'd take 40 points and 17th now and I genuinely would . No, I said so far we're 5 points down. Given our home defeats to Burnley, Leicester City, Aston Villa et al last season we should pick up those lost 5 points. So, I'm not worried yet!
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Post by Beardy200 on Aug 26, 2015 22:32:46 GMT
I need a doctor? Smears and innuendo? I wasn't even talking to you so have no idea what you're on about ya daft sod. Unless of course, benji and nick are one in the same. Hmmmmm. You're still dealing in insults! I think calling you daft was fair under the circumstances
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Post by MrMagic on Aug 26, 2015 22:34:21 GMT
Your in denial if you believe a five points lower haul Form the same fixtures is anything but regression , but candidly but we only need 3 pints from the next 4 games assuming your comfortable we will win at Man city and Everton this year . Said 3 weeks ago I'd take 40 points and 17th now and I genuinely would . The first 3 games last season, lost to villa, drew to hull & beat Man City. 4 points The first three games this season lost to Liverpool drew to Spurs drew against Norwich. 2 points Similar level of competition? Probably. So where you get 5 points down from God only knows.
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Post by discokaraoke on Aug 26, 2015 22:35:27 GMT
No they bloody don't. We lost to Liverpool to a worldy. One goal. We were commended by the media for a great second half comeback against Spurs away and we were poor but got a point at Norwich. How does that bear out that we are weaker? The mind fucking boggles In truth, we are stronger in attack and weaker in midfield and defence but Ryan's absence explains the latter. It so happens against the same or similar fixtures last season we are 5 points down! Now, this is not an indicator of progress! The indicator will be after 38 games. Comparing like for like fixtures from last season is just ridiculous.
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