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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 9:07:23 GMT
I knew you would come round in the end mate .... Increasing reliance on food banks, wage inequality, average house price ten times average wage, house price bubbles, students leaving Uni with £50k debts, zero hours contracts, privatisation of the NHS, PFI, increasing waiting lists, anti-Europe, diminution of workers' rights, increasing stress levels, higher number of paupers funerals, increasing inequality between the haves and have nots, paying massive bonuses to "motivate and attract the best talent" but not even an inflation-tracking pay rise for millions at the other end of the scale... Is that all ....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 9:08:37 GMT
If the no's win how is salmond going to put a positive spin on it He got a vote for the people, unlike proven liar Cameron. Because it wasn't a vote for Cameron was it ?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 9:12:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 9:13:36 GMT
Threats won it will all happen again with in ten years Unlikely in the very near future
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 9:14:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 9:15:57 GMT
There are a few clues there, mcf, which I'm surprised you left in! One being, "I've no feelings either way re independence or staying put", another being it'd be interesting to see how it all panned out [with independence]. In other words, it'd make life more interesting politically which has been what I've said all along. To spell it out, I don't live in Scotland so I'm seeing it from an interested observer's point of view. See if you can find some quotes along those lines. Oh look, you did When asked how I would've voted if Scottish, I would've gone for the Westminster bribe, retained the status quo re the Union and accepted the promised extra powers. That would be what I would've done if I lived up there as it would have affected me directly, but I don't and it doesn't! It's a lot easier to be an interested observer and want something to happen when it doesn't directly affect you.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 9:16:44 GMT
It's been a spectacular victory for political interaction and to see 10 days of Westminster twisting, bent double trying to protect their influence and the status quo was tremendous fun. It was finally left to a behemoth of the left, Gordon Brown, to save the union. In the end though its been a bit of a rout and the question is now off the cards for another 40 or 50 years. Will the Westminster promises be kept? I doubt it but the Scots have no one to blame but themselves. They were offered a chance that the provincial English could only dream of and said they didn't want it. I hope to see 16 year olds to become part of universal suffrage as soon as possible. They can pay tax, they should be able to vote. They have proved themselves worthy and with an 86% turnout this process should be admired and emulated where possible. To Gordon Brown's credit ,he ran rings around Miliband
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 9:17:04 GMT
Increasing reliance on food banks, wage inequality, average house price ten times average wage, house price bubbles, students leaving Uni with £50k debts, zero hours contracts, privatisation of the NHS, PFI, increasing waiting lists, anti-Europe, diminution of workers' rights, increasing stress levels, higher number of paupers funerals, increasing inequality between the haves and have nots, paying massive bonuses to "motivate and attract the best talent" but not even an inflation-tracking pay rise for millions at the other end of the scale... Is that all .... Did I make any of it up?
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 19, 2014 9:17:14 GMT
Threats won it will all happen again with in ten years Unlikely in the very near future The victory was a lot closer than anticipated at the start of the process but in the end it was still a comprehensive 'no'. 30-40 years before this gets near the table again. You don't get a say on these matters routinely.
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Post by mcf on Sept 19, 2014 9:18:39 GMT
It's been a spectacular victory for political interaction and to see 10 days of Westminster twisting, bent double trying to protect their influence and the status quo was tremendous fun. It was finally left to a behemoth of the left, Gordon Brown, to save the union. In the end though its been a bit of a rout and the question is now off the cards for another 40 or 50 years. Will the Westminster promises be kept? I doubt it but the Scots have no one to blame but themselves. They were offered a chance that the provincial English could only dream of and said they didn't want it. I hope to see 16 year olds to become part of universal suffrage as soon as possible. They can pay tax, they should be able to vote. They have proved themselves worthy and with an 86% turnout this process should be admired and emulated where possible. Gordon Brown the Behemoth of the left? Are you sure? Lukey tells us that New Labour was a rightwing government? How could it be with a left behemoth at the heart of its government?
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Post by salopstick on Sept 19, 2014 9:18:48 GMT
I thought Ed Miliband was going to be severely weakened when 41 of his MPs were no longer part of UK government but apparently he is still weakened even though they are The arguments known as the West Lothian question started in 1977 long before any devolution took place. On the subject of devolution - Labour did precisely what the Tories have just done, gone to the countries concerned and given them a referendum on whether they wanted their own national assemblies, which they then voted in favour of, as a result of a growing movement and desire for this. And it's only now that the three stooges have agreed on a package which will deliver independence in all but name for one part of the UK, while the rest of it continues to fund it disproportionately. You can't have it both ways, Salop and you can't blame a lot of Scots for voting for this. I suspect a substantial portion of the no vote saw exactly this and that's what swung it for them. Why is it any more difficult for Labour to govern the UK with a minority English MP representation than it is for the Tories to do so in Wales, N Ireland and Scotland? That already happens. What are you suggesting will happen? There is a call for a referendum fo England to break away from the Union as a result?! I presume you will vote for the Union as it's for the greater good, or have you put a price on it and decided fuck the Union if it means getting rid of any prospect of a Lbour administration - some shifted goalposts on what constitutes the greater good there methinks I think you may be unpleasantly surprised if you think England wants a Tory controlled English administration (however that pans out) ad infinitum as some on here are suggesting! But I'd quite like to see it happen, see how decades of rightwing policies continue to pan out! england is bigger, has more people, creates more money and has bigger spending needs than scotland wales and ireland so of course its different. i would never vote to split up the union, but i do believe in devolution for all or no devolution at all, that is fair and I will happily accept a voted in labour government and be free to voice my opinion on their rights or wrongs, i wont however encourage rioting or make predictions about its longevity
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 19, 2014 9:19:21 GMT
It's been a spectacular victory for political interaction and to see 10 days of Westminster twisting, bent double trying to protect their influence and the status quo was tremendous fun. It was finally left to a behemoth of the left, Gordon Brown, to save the union. In the end though its been a bit of a rout and the question is now off the cards for another 40 or 50 years. Will the Westminster promises be kept? I doubt it but the Scots have no one to blame but themselves. They were offered a chance that the provincial English could only dream of and said they didn't want it. I hope to see 16 year olds to become part of universal suffrage as soon as possible. They can pay tax, they should be able to vote. They have proved themselves worthy and with an 86% turnout this process should be admired and emulated where possible. To Gordon Brown's credit ,he ran rings around Miliband No, he is just streets ahead of Darling. No one anticipated the use of the big guns would be required so a mediocre offend no one face was chosen.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 9:20:11 GMT
There are a few clues there, mcf, which I'm surprised you left in! One being, "I've no feelings either way re independence or staying put", another being it'd be interesting to see how it all panned out [with independence]. In other words, it'd make life more interesting politically which has been what I've said all along. To spell it out, I don't live in Scotland so I'm seeing it from an interested observer's point of view. See if you can find some quotes along those lines. Oh look, you did When asked how I would've voted if Scottish, I would've gone for the Westminster bribe, retained the status quo re the Union and accepted the promised extra powers. That would be what I would've done if I lived up there as it would have affected me directly, but I don't and it doesn't! It's a lot easier to be an interested observer and want something to happen when it doesn't directly affect you. Well if nothing else , this campaign has produced some enjoyable discussion ( and humours ) on here , abuse free for a change .....very refreshing , though I can't see it being the norm
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 19, 2014 9:22:22 GMT
It's been a spectacular victory for political interaction and to see 10 days of Westminster twisting, bent double trying to protect their influence and the status quo was tremendous fun. It was finally left to a behemoth of the left, Gordon Brown, to save the union. In the end though its been a bit of a rout and the question is now off the cards for another 40 or 50 years. Will the Westminster promises be kept? I doubt it but the Scots have no one to blame but themselves. They were offered a chance that the provincial English could only dream of and said they didn't want it. I hope to see 16 year olds to become part of universal suffrage as soon as possible. They can pay tax, they should be able to vote. They have proved themselves worthy and with an 86% turnout this process should be admired and emulated where possible. Gordon Brown the Behemoth of the left? Are you sure? Lukey tells us that New Labour was a rightwing government? How could it be with a left behemoth at the heart of its government? His rhetoric is very left wing, he is partisan, I think that's why he wasn't chosen in the first place and the insipid Darling was. His Government sadly was right wing, not the Attila the Hun right wing of war murderer Blair but it was to the right.
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Post by starkiller on Sept 19, 2014 9:22:45 GMT
He got a vote for the people, unlike proven liar Cameron. Because it wasn't a vote for Cameron was it ? I'm talking about an EU referendum. Salmond promised a referendum for the Scots and delivered. Cameron promised an EU referendum and lied.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 9:22:57 GMT
It's been a spectacular victory for political interaction and to see 10 days of Westminster twisting, bent double trying to protect their influence and the status quo was tremendous fun. It was finally left to a behemoth of the left, Gordon Brown, to save the union. In the end though its been a bit of a rout and the question is now off the cards for another 40 or 50 years. Will the Westminster promises be kept? I doubt it but the Scots have no one to blame but themselves. They were offered a chance that the provincial English could only dream of and said they didn't want it. I hope to see 16 year olds to become part of universal suffrage as soon as possible. They can pay tax, they should be able to vote. They have proved themselves worthy and with an 86% turnout this process should be admired and emulated where possible. Gordon Brown the Behemoth of the left? Are you sure? Lukey tells us that New Labour was a rightwing government? How could it be with a left behemoth at the heart of its government? No, no, it was Margaret Thatcher who said that! I quote "I see no socialism on the Labour front benches". I just happen to agree with her (on this point ). Are you saying she was wrong, mcf
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 9:23:03 GMT
Is that all .... Did I make any of it up? From your point of view I suppose not ....but it's all about difference of opinion as last nights events showed
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Post by salopstick on Sept 19, 2014 9:24:19 GMT
Wrong, as ever, mcf, wrong as ever ??? .... that was on the 'If you were Scottish thread'....try the 4 comments below from you off this thread....hardly the comments of someone wanting a no vote. It works in mature modern democracies and Scotland should take advantage of this opportunity to leave the rest of the UK behind. If I was a Scot and had a vote the thing that would sway it for me would be this: the smaller the democracy, the bigger your voice within it. Indeed, it'd be fascinating to see how it all panned out, both in the short term for the rest of the UK and in the long term for Scotland. And for that reason, I'd like to see it happen. (I've nothing against the Scots and have no feelings either way re independence or staying put). I hope they go for it, I really want to see how it all pans out. It'll be much more interesting than the current dull state of party politics. Honestly, you have fucking lost it Do you think the rest of us have been living on another planet during your Salmond love in Priceless...absolutely pricless you cant blame him mate, you have to put a positive spin on it. the problem with the left is they are to blinded by hatred of the tories to have an open mind on the whole thing, this is a great day for politics in this country, the majority of the UK want to stay the UK, england gets a lone voice for english matters that affect english voters and it should result in a EU referendum.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 9:24:35 GMT
There are a few clues there, mcf, which I'm surprised you left in! One being, "I've no feelings either way re independence or staying put", another being it'd be interesting to see how it all panned out [with independence]. In other words, it'd make life more interesting politically which has been what I've said all along. To spell it out, I don't live in Scotland so I'm seeing it from an interested observer's point of view. See if you can find some quotes along those lines. Oh look, you did When asked how I would've voted if Scottish, I would've gone for the Westminster bribe, retained the status quo re the Union and accepted the promised extra powers. That would be what I would've done if I lived up there as it would have affected me directly, but I don't and it doesn't! It's a lot easier to be an interested observer and want something to happen when it doesn't directly affect you. Well if nothing else , this campaign has produced some enjoyable discussion ( and humours ) on here , abuse free for a change .....very refreshing , though I can't see it being the norm Probably because there have been one or two noticeable absentees, naming no names, ring a ding ding
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Post by adri2008 on Sept 19, 2014 9:25:03 GMT
The issue is probably put to bed for several decades now, if not forever. If as expected, oil production continues to dwindle, nationalists won't be able to use the 'oil funded utopia' card in future and I just can't see them getting enough support from continuing with the status quo unless Westminster really rattles their cage at some point which is quite possible of course.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 9:25:15 GMT
From your point of view I suppose not ....but it's all about difference of opinion as last nights events showed Agreed. But those things I listed are facts, not opinions.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 9:25:29 GMT
Because it wasn't a vote for Cameron was it ? I'm talking about an EU referendum. Salmond promised a referendum for the Scots and delivered. Cameron promised an EU referendum and lied. Well he has promised one in 2017 hasn't he ? So hardly a lie......whether he is there and able to provide one is debatable and remains to be seen .
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 9:26:28 GMT
.... that was on the 'If you were Scottish thread'....try the 4 comments below from you off this thread....hardly the comments of someone wanting a no vote. It works in mature modern democracies and Scotland should take advantage of this opportunity to leave the rest of the UK behind. If I was a Scot and had a vote the thing that would sway it for me would be this: the smaller the democracy, the bigger your voice within it. Indeed, it'd be fascinating to see how it all panned out, both in the short term for the rest of the UK and in the long term for Scotland. And for that reason, I'd like to see it happen. (I've nothing against the Scots and have no feelings either way re independence or staying put). I hope they go for it, I really want to see how it all pans out. It'll be much more interesting than the current dull state of party politics. Honestly, you have fucking lost it Do you think the rest of us have been living on another planet during your Salmond love in Priceless...absolutely pricless you cant blame him mate, you have to put a positive spin on it. the problem with the left is they are to blinded by hatred of the tories to have an open mind on the whole thing, and the reverse isn't true I suppose ???
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 9:26:57 GMT
I'm talking about an EU referendum. Salmond promised a referendum for the Scots and delivered. Cameron promised an EU referendum and lied. Well he has promised one in 2017 hasn't he ? So hardly a lie......whether he is there and able to provide one is debatable and remains to be seen . He promised us one before though didn't he?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 9:29:12 GMT
Well he has promised one in 2017 hasn't he ? So hardly a lie......whether he is there and able to provide one is debatable and remains to be seen . He promised us one before though didn't he? Yes he did
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Post by mcf on Sept 19, 2014 9:29:55 GMT
There are a few clues there, mcf, which I'm surprised you left in! One being, "I've no feelings either way re independence or staying put", another being it'd be interesting to see how it all panned out [with independence]. In other words, it'd make life more interesting politically which has been what I've said all along. To spell it out, I don't live in Scotland so I'm seeing it from an interested observer's point of view. See if you can find some quotes along those lines. Oh look, you did When asked how I would've voted if Scottish, I would've gone for the Westminster bribe, retained the status quo re the Union and accepted the promised extra powers. That would be what I would've done if I lived up there as it would have affected me directly, but I don't and it doesn't! It's a lot easier to be an interested observer and want something to happen when it doesn't directly affect you. Of course I would leave it in. I'm not like you. I don't misquote or tell blatent lies etc about what other posters have penned. I think the way you treated this shows a lack of moral fibre to be honest Lukey. It was a pretty important decision for the Scots to take and you treat it like some sort of game because it doesn't affect you. It's one thing for a selfish rightwinger like myself to act like that but I expected better from a 'social justice' champion like yourself.
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Post by salopstick on Sept 19, 2014 9:30:06 GMT
There are a few clues there, mcf, which I'm surprised you left in! One being, "I've no feelings either way re independence or staying put", another being it'd be interesting to see how it all panned out [with independence]. In other words, it'd make life more interesting politically which has been what I've said all along. To spell it out, I don't live in Scotland so I'm seeing it from an interested observer's point of view. See if you can find some quotes along those lines. Oh look, you did When asked how I would've voted if Scottish, I would've gone for the Westminster bribe, retained the status quo re the Union and accepted the promised extra powers. That would be what I would've done if I lived up there as it would have affected me directly, but I don't and it doesn't! It's a lot easier to be an interested observer and want something to happen when it doesn't directly affect you. Well if nothing else , this campaign has produced some enjoyable discussion ( and humours ) on here , abuse free for a change .....very refreshing , though I can't see it being the norm thats because of the absence on this thread of certain posters go read the muslim beheading thread if you are missing be called a daily mail bigot sunshine
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 19, 2014 9:32:06 GMT
.... that was on the 'If you were Scottish thread'....try the 4 comments below from you off this thread....hardly the comments of someone wanting a no vote. It works in mature modern democracies and Scotland should take advantage of this opportunity to leave the rest of the UK behind. If I was a Scot and had a vote the thing that would sway it for me would be this: the smaller the democracy, the bigger your voice within it. Indeed, it'd be fascinating to see how it all panned out, both in the short term for the rest of the UK and in the long term for Scotland. And for that reason, I'd like to see it happen. (I've nothing against the Scots and have no feelings either way re independence or staying put). I hope they go for it, I really want to see how it all pans out. It'll be much more interesting than the current dull state of party politics. Honestly, you have fucking lost it Do you think the rest of us have been living on another planet during your Salmond love in Priceless...absolutely pricless you cant blame him mate, you have to put a positive spin on it. the problem with the left is they are to blinded by hatred of the tories to have an open mind on the whole thing, this is a great day for politics in this country, the majority of the UK want to stay the UK, england gets a lone voice for english matters that affect english voters and it should result in a EU referendum. It's certainly been a great period for politics generally salop so why do you want to take the vote back off some people who helped make it so?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 9:32:41 GMT
you cant blame him mate, you have to put a positive spin on it. the problem with the left is they are to blinded by hatred of the tories to have an open mind on the whole thing, and the reverse isn't true I suppose ??? I guess it works both ways .....I have never found it that important that it causes me to " hate " though ....politics is nothing more than an interest to me , but there are people obviously who take it that much more seriously.
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Post by mcf on Sept 19, 2014 9:32:51 GMT
Gordon Brown the Behemoth of the left? Are you sure? Lukey tells us that New Labour was a rightwing government? How could it be with a left behemoth at the heart of its government? His rhetoric is very left wing, he is partisan, I think that's why he wasn't chosen in the first place and the insipid Darling was. His Government sadly was right wing, not the Attila the Hun right wing of war murderer Blair but it was to the right. So what you are saying is that he spent years and years and years of talking a good game about social justice and yet when he got the chance he went all right wing?
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