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Post by spitthedog on Jun 22, 2014 14:22:36 GMT
I fear in the wake of England's early exit we will see this B team proposal wheeled out as the answer to all of our prayers (I see Danny Mills is smugly banging on about it already)
England will win the World Cup if we get more overpaid youngsters playing the likes of Northampton and Forest Green in front of 50 indifferent supporters on a wet Tuesday night in December.
That will be the perfect preparation for the well drilled Italian and Uruguyan defences in 40c in 2022!!!
It's funny how this FA commission were holding up Spain as a succesful model 3 weeks ago and now its France and Belgium.
Lets make no mistake this B team plan is an opportunistic ploy promoted by our self interested Premiership chairmen to fulfil their own objectives, one in which they avoid any responsibilities or compromises.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2014 14:24:51 GMT
I can't see it happening. The volume of protest against it would be too much surely?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2014 14:26:38 GMT
ridiculous idea. these youngsters need to be playing at top level, the clubs have to be told they must play 2-3 English players each Saturday, if not maybe there can be arrangement with foreign clubs and we can have them playing abroad, with the prem clubs being told they must have over a certain number of English players registered in their own squad or in any top flight European club's squad
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Post by harryburrows on Jun 22, 2014 14:31:29 GMT
we have the most comprehensive football league system in football already in place ,nothing wrong with this in terms of player developement . we need to stop teams like man city, chelsea etc stockpiling young talent and blocking their progress .
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Post by jeycov on Jun 22, 2014 14:43:07 GMT
Last game of the season, Ryan unavailable , no English player in our starting 11 and only one of our 4 signings to date is English.!!!!
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Post by thepirehillpoet on Jun 22, 2014 14:47:23 GMT
we have the most comprehensive football league system in football already in place ,nothing wrong with this in terms of player developement . we need to stop teams like man city, chelsea etc stockpiling young talent and blocking their progress . Correct. |
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Post by The battheader chronicles on Jun 22, 2014 14:47:25 GMT
Last game of the season, Ryan unavailable , no English player in our starting 11 and only one of our 4 signings to date is English.!!!! Im sure if they were good or cheap enough we'd be signing them. problem is there is a real lack of young English talent amd any that there is is usually stockpiled by the likes of the Manchester clubs or Chelsea etc and get massive wages for doing sod all |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2014 14:51:08 GMT
Last game of the season, Ryan unavailable , no English player in our starting 11 and only one of our 4 signings to date is English.!!!! Im sure if they were good or cheap enough we'd be signing them. problem is there is a real lack of young English talent amd any that there is is usually stockpiled by the likes of the Manchester clubs or Chelsea etc and get massive wages for doing sod all At under 17 level we are consistently up there with the best in Europe. Clubs like our own are damaging the English game, we don't give a shit about producing home grown players or giving youngsters a chance in the senior team. Their careers are derailed between 17-21 where if they want first team football they go to a lower level of football with often very poor coaching and where they get kicked off the park. I mean, every time I look at games in this country below the prem I am shocked at the poor standard and lack of technical and tactical ability. what good does it do these elite young players to go down to that level and get the shit kicked out of them every week? |
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Post by Dallas Cowboy on Jun 22, 2014 14:58:38 GMT
And just how many times did England win the World Cup prior to 1966 when every club in the Football League fielded British-born players and they were lucky to earn 20 quid a week?
Matthews never won a World Cup Winner's Medal nor did Finney, Lofthouse, Haynes, Billy Wright .... I could go on.
Do you think England hosting the 1966 World Cup may have had something to do with us progressing to the final and winning it? The evidence would seem to suggest so.
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Post by Olgrligm on Jun 22, 2014 15:04:33 GMT
It completely contradicts the equally evil academy scheme. The commission has no credibility - they must disband.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jun 22, 2014 15:28:23 GMT
For the B team proposal to work they would have to play in the Football League. There is no evidence that the Football League would agree to it - why should they? It offers no advantage to the Football League Clubs who are hardly likely to see bumper gates when Stoke City B roll into town.
I'm sure linked clubs (for loans etc.) might have a better chance of working. I've often thought it is a bit daft for Stoke to send loan players to clubs 100s of miles away when there are plenty of lower league clubs within a 50 mile radius - and two within 16 miles. Make the loan rules such that there are positive advantages for the Prem clubs and for the league clubs to have a greater number of Premier loan players than they do at present. Clubs like Man Utd have done this for years except that in their case they loaned players out to a foreign linked club in Antwerp - our own Shawcross, Higgy and Bardsley amongst them.
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Post by The battheader chronicles on Jun 22, 2014 15:36:46 GMT
Im sure if they were good or cheap enough we'd be signing them. problem is there is a real lack of young English talent amd any that there is is usually stockpiled by the likes of the Manchester clubs or Chelsea etc and get massive wages for doing sod all At under 17 level we are consistently up there with the best in Europe. Clubs like our own are damaging the English game, we don't give a shit about producing home grown players or giving youngsters a chance in the senior team. Their careers are derailed between 17-21 where if they want first team football they go to a lower level of football with often very poor coaching and where they get kicked off the park. I mean, every time I look at games in this country below the prem I am shocked at the poor standard and lack of technical and tactical ability. what good does it do these elite young players to go down to that level and get the shit kicked out of them every week? If we don't care about producing our own players we wouldn't be plowing all this cash into the academy. I agree the roughness of the lower leagues isn't ideal but it's a damn sight better than playing in a pointless u-21 fixture |
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Post by harryburrows on Jun 22, 2014 15:43:14 GMT
ive said before on other threads we need to establish proper reserve team football again in the form of the central league . players need games and our squad need to be kept match fit ; players coming back from injury, out of form and young players coming up from youth team could be blooded in this way
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Post by kristoff on Jun 22, 2014 16:12:03 GMT
At under 17 level we are consistently up there with the best in Europe. Clubs like our own are damaging the English game, we don't give a shit about producing home grown players or giving youngsters a chance in the senior team. Their careers are derailed between 17-21 where if they want first team football they go to a lower level of football with often very poor coaching and where they get kicked off the park. I mean, every time I look at games in this country below the prem I am shocked at the poor standard and lack of technical and tactical ability. what good does it do these elite young players to go down to that level and get the shit kicked out of them every week? If we don't care about producing our own players we wouldn't be plowing all this cash into the academy. I agree the roughness of the lower leagues isn't ideal but it's a damn sight better than playing in a pointless u-21 fixture As i said in another thread, i played at a half decent level, but as a youngster i learnt far more playing against 17stone 6ft thugs every week than when we played rigid tippy tappy youth stuff. There are a lot of problems with B teams, and i agree i think making the reserves into someting worthwhile again (possibly in the vase or johnston paint as well). |
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jun 22, 2014 16:15:21 GMT
ive said before on other threads we need to establish proper reserve team football again in the form of the central league . players need games and our squad need to be kept match fit ; players coming back from injury, out of form and young players coming up from youth team could be blooded in this way That's a way forward - but reserve games should not be in front of 500 in the main stadium or in front of 50 men and a dog at Clayton Wood. Games need to be in a proper smallish stadium reasonably near to Stoke/Newcastle not 20 miles up the road at Nantwich. Man City are building a superb complex including (I think) 2 smallish (few thousand capacity) stadia next to their main ground. Obviously we don't have the resources to do what Man City do but we could maybe enter into a partnership with one of the local non league clubs to upgrade their stadium - both the pitch and the spectator facilities. |
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Post by kristoff on Jun 22, 2014 16:18:44 GMT
ive said before on other threads we need to establish proper reserve team football again in the form of the central league . players need games and our squad need to be kept match fit ; players coming back from injury, out of form and young players coming up from youth team could be blooded in this way That's a way forward - but reserve games should not be in front of 500 in the main stadium or in front of 50 men and a dog at Clayton Wood. Games need to be in a proper smallish stadium reasonably near to Stoke/Newcastle not 20 miles up the road at Nantwich. Man City are building a superb complex including (I think) 2 smallish (few thousand capacity) stadia next to their main ground. Obviously we don't have the resources to do what Man City do but we could maybe enter into a partnership with one of the local non league clubs to upgrade their stadium - both the pitch and the spectator facilities. Thats what Barca B and Castilla do, they have their own stadia ect. |
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Post by harryburrows on Jun 22, 2014 16:20:51 GMT
ive said before on other threads we need to establish proper reserve team football again in the form of the central league . players need games and our squad need to be kept match fit ; players coming back from injury, out of form and young players coming up from youth team could be blooded in this way That's a way forward - but reserve games should not be in front of 500 in the main stadium or in front of 50 men and a dog at Clayton Wood. Games need to be in a proper smallish stadium reasonably near to Stoke/Newcastle not 20 miles up the road at Nantwich. Man City are building a superb complex including (I think) 2 smallish (few thousand capacity) stadia next to their main ground. Obviously we don't have the resources to do what Man City do but we could maybe enter into a partnership with one of the local non league clubs to upgrade their stadium - both the pitch and the spectator facilities. we used to play at the vic in front of a couple of thousand , when i used to go early 70s , |
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jun 22, 2014 16:32:37 GMT
That's a way forward - but reserve games should not be in front of 500 in the main stadium or in front of 50 men and a dog at Clayton Wood. Games need to be in a proper smallish stadium reasonably near to Stoke/Newcastle not 20 miles up the road at Nantwich. Man City are building a superb complex including (I think) 2 smallish (few thousand capacity) stadia next to their main ground. Obviously we don't have the resources to do what Man City do but we could maybe enter into a partnership with one of the local non league clubs to upgrade their stadium - both the pitch and the spectator facilities. we used to play at the vic in front of a couple of thousand , when i used to go early 70s , I know - I was there! But a couple of thousand standing seems to look better than the same number seated. Seated stadia look crap when they are less than one tenth full. That's another reason to re-build or upgrade a non league stadium and use that. The law allows standing in stadia below Championship level and a mix of seats and standing would give a better atmosphere. Aything to make the players feel they are playing in a stadium with a bit of oomph!  |
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jun 22, 2014 17:27:26 GMT
Last game of the season, Ryan unavailable , no English player in our starting 11 and only one of our 4 signings to date is English.!!!! Which of Sidwell and Bardsley have you decided is not English? Sidwell was born in Fulham and Bardsley in Salford - both in England the last time I looked at the map.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2014 18:00:23 GMT
Bardsley has played for Scotland but is about as Scottish as Walters is Irish.
Didn't the football league clubs reject the B team idea at their AGM the other week?
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Post by st3mark on Jun 22, 2014 18:29:48 GMT
Best thing for stoke city best thing for the national team. No complaints here.
If it doesn't work well, we can change it.
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Post by BristolMick on Jun 22, 2014 18:32:30 GMT
Bardsley has played for Scotland but is about as Scottish as Walters is Irish. Didn't the football league clubs reject the B team idea at their AGM the other week? Yep they rejected the strategic loan partnership idea too but said that they agree with the objectives of Dyke's plan and would work with the FA to find solutions that can be supported by the whole of the game. So that's the FL and Conference that have now told Dyke where to stick his "Top Club pampering" B team idea. BM |
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Post by kristoff on Jun 22, 2014 20:15:24 GMT
Bardsley has played for Scotland but is about as Scottish as Walters is Irish. Didn't the football league clubs reject the B team idea at their AGM the other week? Yep they rejected the strategic loan partnership idea too but said that they agree with the objectives of Dyke's plan and would work with the FA to find solutions that can be supported by the whole of the game. So that's the FL and Conference that have now told Dyke where to stick his "Top Club pampering" B team idea. BM Trouble is, we say premier league teams are only looking out for themselves? Arent all clubs? If they was a 100% guaranteed idea that would improve our national team dramatically if it didnt suit some clubs they would still refuse it. At the end of the day, if the FA see something that they think will improve our performances at tournaments, they should be able to force it through reguardless. If teams dont like it tuff titties. I bet if they said that players are only allowed to play in pink slippers but all clubs would get an extra £2mil a year they'd be on it like a rash. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2014 20:49:23 GMT
Even if it did happen and we went on to win the World Cup it wouldnt be worth it. What makes football in this country so special is the strength of our leagues and the number of people involved in playing and watching at all levels. Not so long ago we were in the 3rd tier and could be again and then we would have to play B teams every other week. I wouldnt swap watching competitive football for having a good national team and im sure most supporters feel the same.
Just goes to show what a bunch of fuckwitts we have running the game if they think this is the answer.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 22, 2014 21:01:10 GMT
We need to sign more foreigners, the more spurious the better.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2014 21:05:51 GMT
Do the FA actually have any power over the Premier League ?
If the FA propose this could the Premier League reject it or do the FA have the final say ? Seems to me the Prem is becoming a huge entity by itself and could end up making its own rules to suit its member clubs. The 'home grown' rule seems to have been twisted and has proved absolutely no benefit to our national side at all. Having 'B' teams is all well and good providing those players go on to represent their respective clubs at the highest level.
And what would happen to the current promotion / relegation system. You would expect the 'B' teams to do quite well against lower league opponents and be near the top of their respective tables. Not sure how those clubs floundering in the lower leagues would take that. If we were still down there I'd feel there was not much point playing if there was little chance of promotion (I know every season for years was like that but you get the point ! ). And if the 'B' teams were not allowed promotion would they face every game as a friendly rather than a competitive game ?
I'm not convinced at all...
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Post by lordb on Jun 22, 2014 21:32:48 GMT
Money has power over the Premier League.
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Post by kristoff on Jun 22, 2014 22:40:04 GMT
Do the FA actually have any power over the Premier League ? If the FA propose this could the Premier League reject it or do the FA have the final say ? Seems to me the Prem is becoming a huge entity by itself and could end up making its own rules to suit its member clubs. The 'home grown' rule seems to have been twisted and has proved absolutely no benefit to our national side at all. Having 'B' teams is all well and good providing those players go on to represent their respective clubs at the highest level. And what would happen to the current promotion / relegation system. You would expect the 'B' teams to do quite well against lower league opponents and be near the top of their respective tables. Not sure how those clubs floundering in the lower leagues would take that. If we were still down there I'd feel there was not much point playing if there was little chance of promotion (I know every season for years was like that but you get the point ! ). And if the 'B' teams were not allowed promotion would they face every game as a friendly rather than a competitive game ? I'm not convinced at all... The way Barca B and RM Castilla work is that they can still get promoted and relegated, but cant be in the same division as their first club, also they cant enter the cup. For them it works because each player/coach/staff want to progress and get noticed by the first team. They also have rules over how many players can get brought up or dropped down. Works quite well over there, but even if we were to get it over here, too many people are too stuck in their ways and against change even if it might benefit the game as a whole. (Thats not to say i think this would work btw) |
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Post by britsabroad on Jun 23, 2014 1:20:04 GMT
I think its the best idea floated so far. One way or another we need to address the huge jump between youth levels and the first teams. Thats the point at which many English players are falling by the wayside as clubs cant afford to sponsor their learning curve anymore.
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