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Post by kevkj on Jun 3, 2014 10:41:52 GMT
uk.news.yahoo.com/islamic-area-now-police-investigate-divisive-sign-east-144811952.htmlSeems things are getting out of hand,whether this is people stirring the pot or truly Islamic fundamentalists its getting bad throughout the uk. I have read of similar cases in Oldham and Bradford. People in luton being hounded out of areas, When foreigner's are allowed to express their faith as the only faith! when the government accepts they have the right to preach and practice it! above the faith of this land then we have problems? Christianity becomes second class and irrelevant. The governments gave the Muslim faith to much freedom to be practiced. it has it own Mosques and also now we are starting to see the Muslim schools for Muslims popping up, and becoming No go area's for the English Government and Councils. I am reading a lot of "we should do this and we should do that" on here tonight, whats the point? We wont do anything as the country is no longer united and we just accept everything the government and Europe throw at us. If we go to a Muslim country we are not allowed to practice Christianity but they can do what they like over here and their religion is even taught in schools now, I am glad I am coming to the end of my life but really do feel sorry for my grand children and their children in the future. I voted Ukip and will again next year but Cameron will brainwash the public and promise them the earth and probably get back in. The Torys seem to have buries there hands in the sand,the Libeal and Labour just fancy winning the large Islamic vote and the police are frightened to act in case tensions are raised. The English are very tolerant and fair! These religious Muslim racists if not stopped now! we will all have to be Muslim or most defiantly will live under the Muslim flag. English wake up and tell these Muslims to to keep their faith to themselves! This is England! It is Christian! if they do not like it! they should all go back to the Muslim land that they have all deserted! and decided to fall in love with the Christian land that they are trying to make Muslim land! and succeeding I may add. I class my self as a pretty level headed ,middle of the road sort of bloke who shook my head at the EDL and NF but im starting to get concerned.
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Post by salopstick on Jun 3, 2014 10:48:20 GMT
the problem with immigration is there has been no integration - and the integration should come from all sides
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Post by kevkj on Jun 3, 2014 10:54:04 GMT
I am by no means a racist i have property in a Muslim country (Turkey) and plan to retire there.
When i do this, i realise i must live under the countrys laws and ways .
This i expect .
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Post by ukcstokie on Jun 3, 2014 11:04:42 GMT
the problem with immigration is there has been no integration - and the integration should come from all sides "Integration should come from all sides": Unfortunately some immigrant communities like to keep themselves separate. It's doesn't matter what everyone else does if they don't want to integrate. The other aspect is tolerance. Generally as a secular/Christian people we are very tolerant of other people. I think the least people can do is show the same level of tolerance back.
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Post by daibando on Jun 3, 2014 11:11:04 GMT
This is a non story..one nutter, who could be Muslim or someone deliberately stirring things up, has put up a sign on a bus stop and it makes national news!
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Post by kevkj on Jun 3, 2014 11:16:00 GMT
Daibando ,maybe it is,maybe it isnteither way,its just another case in a catalogue. In my view its that sort of response from you that is so typical. Its as though many are sleepwalking through the issue.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2014 11:20:56 GMT
This is a non story..one nutter, who could be Muslim or someone deliberately stirring things up, has put up a sign on a bus stop and it makes national news! Especially on the basis that a Muslim would surely write 'Muslim area' rather than 'Islamist area'!
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Post by salopstick on Jun 3, 2014 11:31:04 GMT
the problem with immigration is there has been no integration - and the integration should come from all sides "Integration should come from all sides": Unfortunately some immigrant communities like to keep themselves separate. It's doesn't matter what everyone else does if they don't want to integrate. The other aspect is tolerance. Generally as a secular/Christian people we are very tolerant of other people. I think the least people can do is show the same level of tolerance back. since the mass ethnic immigration of the 50s and 60s and beyond the governmentd did not do a great deal to aid integration. it was a vicious circle. the governemnt didnt do enough to include so the ethnic communities didnt do enough to include them selves if there had been ways so that all communities were multi ethnic mixed, plus the anti-discrimination laws etc had been in place or dealt with as they arose it may have been better now, 50 years gone and you are not going to break up ethnic communities now, not that we should or shouldnt. if you try and tackle it now the race card gets played. i dont know how we can start again but we should try
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Post by ukcstokie on Jun 3, 2014 11:46:57 GMT
"Integration should come from all sides": Unfortunately some immigrant communities like to keep themselves separate. It's doesn't matter what everyone else does if they don't want to integrate. The other aspect is tolerance. Generally as a secular/Christian people we are very tolerant of other people. I think the least people can do is show the same level of tolerance back. since the mass ethnic immigration of the 50s and 60s and beyond the governmentd did not do a great deal to aid integration. it was a vicious circle. the governemnt didnt do enough to include so the ethnic communities didnt do enough to include them selves if there had been ways so that all communities were multi ethnic mixed, plus the anti-discrimination laws etc had been in place or dealt with as they arose it may have been better now, 50 years gone and you are not going to break up ethnic communities now, not that we should or shouldnt. if you try and tackle it now the race card gets played. i dont know how we can start again but we should try Agreed. But I think some of the immigrant communities are much more inclined to be isolationist. That's where we get mistrust and friction. The wider spread introduction of faith only schools doesn't help but reinforce the isolation. It's not about racist - it's about integration and tolerance IMHO.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2014 11:58:01 GMT
Daibando ,maybe it is,maybe it isnteither way,its just another case in a catalogue. In my view its that sort of response from you that is so typical. Its as though many are sleepwalking through the issue. i think it's harsh to level the accusation that people are "Sleepwalking through the issue" simply because they don't jump on every single thing that happens and jump and down screaming "How dare you, this is a Christian country" there's an awful lot to be said for reading between the lines and being able to determine for yourself what actually IS a real and serious issue and what is just a non-event that has been blown up out of all proportion by the media. i can GUARANTEE that if the sign was put up saying "Sikh's don't like dogs" then no-one would have even heard about this...as soon as you put the word "Muslim" into it though, there's a media frenzy and suddenly we're being taken over and pushed out of our own country apparently. no-one even knows who the fuck put this poster up....it's just as likely that a white, christian, english woman had an argument with one muslim bloke in the park so put it up to make a sarcastic point. not even this article states who put it up but you've already decided it's a major event and if people see it for what it actually is (i.e. fuck all) then they're "Sleepwalking through the issue"....bunkum!
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Post by kevkj on Jun 3, 2014 12:05:07 GMT
MickMills I stated it could be a individual form either side that did this ,my point is there are ongoing major issues in towns and citys across the UK
Im sure if You lived in Oldham,Luton,Halifax ,Rochdale to name a few you would have many examples ,you probably live in the Potteries where Shelton and Normacaot are the only areas where inclaves of muslims can be found.
My worry is there is a silent majority amongst them, that when there numbers are large we will see MPs spouting up and voted for in huge numbers from these areas.
Time will tell.
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Post by salopstick on Jun 3, 2014 12:11:36 GMT
since the mass ethnic immigration of the 50s and 60s and beyond the governmentd did not do a great deal to aid integration. it was a vicious circle. the governemnt didnt do enough to include so the ethnic communities didnt do enough to include them selves if there had been ways so that all communities were multi ethnic mixed, plus the anti-discrimination laws etc had been in place or dealt with as they arose it may have been better now, 50 years gone and you are not going to break up ethnic communities now, not that we should or shouldnt. if you try and tackle it now the race card gets played. i dont know how we can start again but we should try Agreed. But I think some of the immigrant communities are much more inclined to be isolationist. That's where we get mistrust and friction. The wider spread introduction of faith only schools doesn't help but reinforce the isolation. It's not about racist - it's about integration and tolerance IMHO. you would be isolationist too if you or your previous generations were brought to this country to do subservient jobs, housed together in communities, and the laws of the land did very little to protect you from abuse, racism, and discrimination. they should have been brough over as equals from the start chicken and egg - it took 20 years after ww2 to bring in this legislation en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_Relations_Act_1965 which still was very weak yes the law has improved significantly but was really too late and we are paying the price now
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2014 13:24:54 GMT
It's a well known fact that many Muslims don't like dogs , infact many are very scared of them . Here in Britain we are a nation of dog lovers and are far more humane with our animals than practically any other country in the world. Given that there are almost 1 million illegal immigrants living in this country and given there are more arriving every day , then the clear message should be that if they don't like it , then they shouldn't come or simply fuck off back to the dire shit they've come from. Bollocks to all this politically correct bullshit , this is our country , not there's. They might consider sorting out there own country's affairs out before they pollute ours with their medieval religious claptrap. I've seen first hand the way in which they live their lives and the way they treat their animals and women and quite frankly I'm appalled. I wasn't brought up indoctrinated by such shit and furthermore we never had 1 million illegals walking the streets either. The Ukip message is loud and clear and has touched many hearts and minds who've had enough. They're not my political persuasion , but it's nice to see that others don't want the county's historical heritage and culture diluted anymore. All the main three parties better wise up very soon , or they'll face years in the shadows.
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Post by countofmontecristo on Jun 3, 2014 13:32:08 GMT
Agreed. But I think some of the immigrant communities are much more inclined to be isolationist. That's where we get mistrust and friction. The wider spread introduction of faith only schools doesn't help but reinforce the isolation. It's not about racist - it's about integration and tolerance IMHO. you would be isolationist too if you or your previous generations were brought to this country to do subservient jobs, housed together in communities, and the laws of the land did very little to protect you from abuse, racism, and discrimination. they should have been brough over as equals from the start chicken and egg - it took 20 years after ww2 to bring in this legislation en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_Relations_Act_1965 which still was very weak yes the law has improved significantly but was really too late and we are paying the price now Nobody was 'brought' to this country to do 'subservient' jobs Salop. Immigrants came of their own free will for a better life and worked alongside their white colleagues. They immediately got access to all the state services and benefits that the British had. They were treated as equals by the state. Many people resented the fact and there was racial tension. The Race Relations Act you referred to actually increased tensions because of the perceived inequality towards the whites........ which is where Enoch Powell famously stepped in! We aren't paying the price for that now.... we did that in the 80's. What we are paying the price of now, is Tony Fucking Blair.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2014 13:32:30 GMT
MickMills I stated it could be a individual form either side that did this ,my point is there are ongoing major issues in towns and citys across the UK Im sure if You lived in Oldham,Luton,Halifax ,Rochdale to name a few you would have many examples ,you probably live in the Potteries where Shelton and Normacaot are the only areas where inclaves of muslims can be found. My worry is there is a silent majority amongst them, that when there numbers are large we will see MPs spouting up and voted for in huge numbers from these areas. Time will tell. so what you're saying is that because of YOUR worry (which doesn't seem to have the evidence to back it up....it's a hell of a claim you're making there to say there's a silent majority who will somehow take over parliament) then people who don't agree are sleepwalking through it? i'm fully aware that there are issues in some areas but i really do think that you're hugely over-exaggerating the issues and trying to make out that it's a nationwide problem when there really isn't any evidence to say that's true. your kind of logic and thought process is one of the reasons for the problems in the first place; as salop pointed out, tens of thousands of immigrants originally brought in to basically be slave labourers, herded into "Ghettos" and not being allowed to integrate into society which, in turn, is then exascerbated by people like yourself seeing occasional news stories and therefore presuming there's a major problem with certain ethnic groups so we have to be vigilant against ALL who form part of that ethnic group. pretty sure that stats show that most alcohol related crime in england is perpetrated by people born and bred in england...tell me, should i now watch out for white, christian, englanders? i see far far more news stories about this set of people than i do about Muslims taking over cities and quietly forming silent majorities with a view to getting into some kind of power (well, unless i happen to be reading the Daily Mail that is)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2014 13:35:06 GMT
you would be isolationist too if you or your previous generations were brought to this country to do subservient jobs, housed together in communities, and the laws of the land did very little to protect you from abuse, racism, and discrimination. they should have been brough over as equals from the start chicken and egg - it took 20 years after ww2 to bring in this legislation en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_Relations_Act_1965 which still was very weak yes the law has improved significantly but was really too late and we are paying the price now Nobody was 'brought' to this country to do 'subservient' jobs Salop. Immigrants came of their own free will for a better life and worked alongside their white colleagues. They immediately got access to all the state services and benefits that the British had. They were treated as equals by the state. Many people resented the fact and there was racial tension. The Race Relations Act you referred to actually increased tensions because of the perceived inequality towards the whites........ which is where Enoch Powell famously stepped in! We aren't paying the price for that now.... we did that in the 80's. What we are paying the price of now, is Tony Fucking Blair. thousands of black immigrants originally came to the UK in the 17th and 18th centuries and were brought over because we were involved in the tri-continental slave trade and they were used because of the increasing amount of trade throughout the world. you're just looking at what happened in the 20th century mate....it goes back far far further than that!
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Post by countofmontecristo on Jun 3, 2014 13:47:48 GMT
Nobody was 'brought' to this country to do 'subservient' jobs Salop. Immigrants came of their own free will for a better life and worked alongside their white colleagues. They immediately got access to all the state services and benefits that the British had. They were treated as equals by the state. Many people resented the fact and there was racial tension. The Race Relations Act you referred to actually increased tensions because of the perceived inequality towards the whites........ which is where Enoch Powell famously stepped in! We aren't paying the price for that now.... we did that in the 80's. What we are paying the price of now, is Tony Fucking Blair. thousands of black immigrants originally came to the UK in the 17th and 18th centuries and were brought over because we were involved in the tri-continental slave trade and they were used because of the increasing amount of trade throughout the world. you're just looking at what happened in the 20th century mate....it goes back far far further than that! How far back are we going then Mick? Most of the population of this country is descended from serfs/slaves at some point in our history!
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Post by kevkj on Jun 3, 2014 13:58:42 GMT
Mick Mills The imigrants of the 50 and 60s came to make themselves a better life and were badly treated by a great amount of our country shamefully.
They did not come with a agenda of changing our laws,religions and way of life.
Load of bollocks your spouting. I repeat just because it is not affectoing you dont think its not going on and going to get worse.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2014 14:01:24 GMT
thousands of black immigrants originally came to the UK in the 17th and 18th centuries and were brought over because we were involved in the tri-continental slave trade and they were used because of the increasing amount of trade throughout the world. you're just looking at what happened in the 20th century mate....it goes back far far further than that! How far back are we going then Mick? Most of the population of this country is descended from serfs/slaves at some point in our history! in terms of actual immigration and ethnic communities coming into the country from abroad in large numbers then that was basically when it began due to the slave trade. that was then the ethnic communities were rounded up together and treated as second class citizens which is what salop pointed out in his post. even if you want to just look at the 20th Century, it's certainly not true at all to say that all immigrants came over voluntarily...thousands were "Labour Recruited" from the commonwealth in the 40's (British Honduras, West Indies etc.) for tree felling, munition factories, merchant navy etc. etc. whilst others did come voluntarily. after the war the government actually tried to convince most to return home (and were offered incentives by the government to do so) but few opted to take that up and the Labour government actually used european workers and german prisoners for the rebuilding of Britain rather than "Recruit" any more immigrants to help out with rebuilding as it was thought that european workers would be more likely to return home after work was completed. it's also not true to say they had equal rights..it wasn't until the mid-60s that banning black people from pubs, busses or indeed any business premises or transport method came into force. up until then you could refuse entry/trade/transport to blacks or anyone of any ethnic minority.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2014 14:02:58 GMT
Mick Mills The imigrants of the 50 and 60s came to make themselves a better life and were badly treated by a great amount of our country shamefully. They did not come with a agenda of changing our laws,religions and way of life. Load of bollocks your spouting. I repeat just because it is not affectoing you dont think its not going on and going to get worse. it's not bollocks whatsoever mate...it's fact, it's just that you've decided to limit the whole history of immigration and ethnic minorities in this country to a 20 year timeframe to fit your argument!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2014 14:04:46 GMT
Mick Mills The imigrants of the 50 and 60s came to make themselves a better life and were badly treated by a great amount of our country shamefully. They did not come with a agenda of changing our laws,religions and way of life. Load of bollocks your spouting. I repeat just because it is not affectoing you dont think its not going on and going to get worse. ???? but you've admitted yourself that it's YOUR worry!!!!! so because i don't share that worry (based on no evidence whatsoever or none thatyou care to share with anyone anyway) i'm spouting bollocks???? come back when you know how to debate and discuss reasonably eh rather than just throw profanities at people who disagree with what you yourself have said is your opinion (i.e. not a proven fact)
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Post by kevkj on Jun 3, 2014 14:05:12 GMT
I tell you what Turkey is a secular country but if i turned up there stating there religion was wrong,preached about my religion but never spread hatred ,I would never be seen again .
Spread hatred and i would be assigneed to my maker staright away.
Fucking dogooders
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2014 14:06:15 GMT
I tell you what Turkey is a secular country but if i turned up there stating there religion was wrong,preached about my religion but never spread hatred ,I would never be seen again . Spread hatred and i would be assigneed to my maker staright away. Fucking dogooders fucking fucktard
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Post by kevkj on Jun 3, 2014 14:08:32 GMT
I suggest you open the link and read some of the comments ,seems there is a different world out there.
I suppose all the incidents in Oldham from 2000 onwards are all make believe and scaremongering as well.
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Post by salopstick on Jun 3, 2014 14:13:23 GMT
you would be isolationist too if you or your previous generations were brought to this country to do subservient jobs, housed together in communities, and the laws of the land did very little to protect you from abuse, racism, and discrimination. they should have been brough over as equals from the start chicken and egg - it took 20 years after ww2 to bring in this legislation en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_Relations_Act_1965 which still was very weak yes the law has improved significantly but was really too late and we are paying the price now Nobody was 'brought' to this country to do 'subservient' jobs Salop. Immigrants came of their own free will for a better life and worked alongside their white colleagues. They immediately got access to all the state services and benefits that the British had. They were treated as equals by the state. Many people resented the fact and there was racial tension. The Race Relations Act you referred to actually increased tensions because of the perceived inequality towards the whites........ which is where Enoch Powell famously stepped in! We aren't paying the price for that now.... we did that in the 80's. What we are paying the price of now, is Tony Fucking Blair. they couldnt work alongside their white collegues without being called blackie, they couldnt turn on the tv without seeing the likes of alf garnet when i say subservient, probably th ewrong word but it was manual and shit jobs as opposed to being captains on industry in the main. yes they came of their own free will but we asked them to come and as a nation didnt do as much as what we should have done for full integration and equality
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2014 14:14:03 GMT
I suggest you open the link and read some of the comments ,seems there is a different world out there. I suppose all the incidents in Oldham from 2000 onwards are all make believe and scaremongering as well. nope not at all mate but as i said it's a hell of a leap from there being incidents in some localised areas to you deciding there's a silent majority who are ready to pounce and try to instill themselves into westminster...which as you said is YOUR worry. just because i don't share that worry it doesn't mean i'm talking bollocks and it doesn't mean i can't see what's going on, it simply means i'm not ready to over sensationalise things massively in the same way you are and extrapolate what is happening in a few areas occasionally (let's not pretend it's some kind of daily battlefield up north, that isn't borne out by any facts at all) to the rest of the UK and try to convince everyone they're "Taking over" P.S by the way i'm not going to change my mind based on what some people out of 1,500 comments (that's 0.002% of the UK population!) think posted on a webpage that's available for the whole planet to see and comment on, in much the same way that i don't believe and think what the Sun and The Daily mail say despite them being the 2 biggest selling daily papers in the UK either...if that's how you make your mind up on things then it's bit worrying
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Post by ukcstokie on Jun 3, 2014 14:38:44 GMT
Isn't there some onus on people coming to a foreign country to try to integrate with the existing communities?
(This certainly applies to Brits going abroad too).
I understand there have been problems in previous generations - but when are people allowed to move on?
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Post by kevkj on Jun 3, 2014 14:38:56 GMT
No problem each to there own,but the Muslim psyche is very different to ours i know that.
I dont for one minute think they all want Sharia law and spit blood at christinans but offered the choice they would take it.
They tend to have very large families so there numbers will increase massively over the say next ten years .Lets see where we are then.
I genuinely hope you are correct with your multicultural thoughts ,but personally think were in trouble,trouble of our own making.
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Post by kevkj on Jun 3, 2014 14:40:10 GMT
Isn't there some onus on people coming to a foreign country to try to integrate with the existing communities? (This certainly applies to Brits going abroad too). I understand there have been problems in previous generations - but when are people allowed to move on? Not in coming to the UK it seeems.
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Post by countofmontecristo on Jun 3, 2014 14:42:41 GMT
How far back are we going then Mick? Most of the population of this country is descended from serfs/slaves at some point in our history! 1.in terms of actual immigration and ethnic communities coming into the country from abroad in large numbers then that was basically when it began due to the slave trade. that was then the ethnic communities were rounded up together and treated as second class citizens which is what salop pointed out in his post. 2.even if you want to just look at the 20th Century, it's certainly not true at all to say that all immigrants came over voluntarily...thousands were "Labour Recruited" from the commonwealth in the 40's (British Honduras, West Indies etc.) for tree felling, munition factories, merchant navy etc. etc. whilst others did come voluntarily. 3.after the war the government actually tried to convince most to return home (and were offered incentives by the government to do so) but few opted to take that up and the Labour government actually used european workers and german prisoners for the rebuilding of Britain rather than "Recruit" any more immigrants to help out with rebuilding as it was thought that european workers would be more likely to return home after work was completed. 4.it's also not true to say they had equal rights..it wasn't until the mid-60s that banning black people from pubs, busses or indeed any business premises or transport method came into force. up until then you could refuse entry/trade/transport to blacks or anyone of any ethnic minority. 1. Not sure about this mate.... any links? 2. Are you saying that these people were forced to come over? 3. Why would these people NOT return home if they felt so badly treated? 4. They were treated as equals by the state and under the law. Anybody offering a service at that time could refuse on any grounds - unmarried, Irish background, single mother, disabled, bad family, born out of wedlock, not Christened, didn't like the look of you etc. People were a lot more opinionated than they are now. Immigrants were not the only ones discriminated against, it was a fact of life for many.
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