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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2014 20:10:35 GMT
Why have Tom Ince when you can have 'Brett' Shea?
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Post by djduncanjames on Apr 25, 2014 20:26:23 GMT
Are Agudeo and Arnie Hughes' signings tho? Hughes seems the type to have tabs on players the world over anyway, hard to tell if Cartwright has done much for us so far. Maybe he's better with the Italian signings
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2014 20:35:37 GMT
Whenever I hear his name I just think of a pathetic fat twat high fiving mr bean in front of millions of people! How very amateurish it looked. Him and scholes are a complete waste of spunk.
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Post by trigger on Apr 25, 2014 20:51:24 GMT
Whenever I hear his name I just think of a pathetic fat twat high fiving mr bean in front of millions of people! How very amateurish it looked. Him and scholes are a complete waste of spunk. Exactly, well put.
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Post by prettything on Apr 25, 2014 20:57:59 GMT
Who scouted Arnie, Muniesia or Pieters ?
If we had the answers to the above then we can make an accurate judgment.
My guess is that he did . I also think that that it is down to him for our new transfer strategy. '
Moneyball' is the new hipster beard in football.
Young, talented players, cheap, and something to prove.
Don't under estimate him.
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Post by robwahlmann on Apr 25, 2014 20:58:33 GMT
Whenever I hear his name I just think of a pathetic fat twat high fiving mr bean in front of millions of people! How very amateurish it looked. Him and scholes are a complete waste of spunk. I don't know if you're right or not, but so far I really can't see where we have benefited from his contribution!? If someone knows please tell instead of saying: your so stupid, can't you see that! What has he actually done???
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2014 21:00:04 GMT
I reckon Arnie and Muniesa were Hughes signings.
But how does the system work? Presumably Carto still has a role to play in getting the deals done even if Sparky names identifies his men? Maybe MarkW could shed some light?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2014 21:03:26 GMT
I reckon Arnie and Muniesa were Hughes signings. But how does the system work? Presumably Carto still has a role to play in getting the deals done even if Sparky names identifies his men? Maybe MarkW could shed some light? Hughes asks him for a top 10 striker and he get's nothing. Hughes finds a 34 year old striker himself and he still get's nothing. Young, unproven strikers from the USA league that can't get work permits are no problem though.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2014 21:08:27 GMT
I reckon Arnie and Muniesa were Hughes signings. But how does the system work? Presumably Carto still has a role to play in getting the deals done even if Sparky names identifies his men? Maybe MarkW could shed some light? Hughes asks him for a top 10 striker and he get's nothing. Hughes finds a 34 year old striker himself and he still get's nothing. Young, unproven strikers from the USA league that can't get work permits are no problem though. The Beswicks link is certainly uncomfortable.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2014 21:11:55 GMT
Whenever I hear his name I just think of a pathetic fat twat high fiving mr bean in front of millions of people! How very amateurish it looked. Him and scholes are a complete waste of spunk. I don't know if you're right or not, but so far I really can't see where we have benefited from his contribution!? If someone knows please tell instead of saying: your so stupid, can't you see that! What has he actually done??? Of course I'm right mate. I only deal In facts...... Did he make himself look an amateurish fat twat by high fiving another useless tosser? Answer yes
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Post by crownmeking on Apr 25, 2014 21:13:37 GMT
For three windows running we have failed to secure our main target. Is that because the previous manager couldn't attract the players?
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Post by prettything on Apr 25, 2014 21:14:58 GMT
I think Shea was a desperation signing.
Olic was a player clearly playing the game for a better deal. Can't blame every failed signing on management
Surely Munesia and Arnie were both Cartright? After all, it was well documented of our new transfer policy.
I have a theory, that we are using 'moneyball' as our new way forward. If you look at the players we have signed over the last twelve months, most fall into this category. Cheap, young and talented, but troubled.
Without knowing the full facts it would be harsh to criticise Cartright. We can only judge him on this season, which would be deemed a huge success.
We have spent low, have players with sell on value above what was paid, and have taken the club forward.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2014 21:20:01 GMT
I think Shea was a desperation signing. Olic was a player clearly playing the game for a better deal. Can't blame every failed signing on management Surely Munesia and Arnie were both Cartright? After all, it was well documented of our new transfer policy. I have a theory, that we are using 'moneyball' as our new way forward. If you look at the players we have signed over the last twelve months, most fall into this category. Cheap, young and talented, but troubled. Without knowing the full facts it would be harsh to criticise Cartright. We can only judge him on this season, which would be deemed a huge success. We have spent low, have players with sell on value above what was paid, and have taken the club forward. Why were they both Cartwright? I don't think he's solely responsible for all the players we bring in? Hughes is a massive Bundesliga fan and it was also reported that his Barca connections played a part in getting Muniesa here.
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Post by prettything on Apr 25, 2014 21:26:42 GMT
I think Shea was a desperation signing. Olic was a player clearly playing the game for a better deal. Can't blame every failed signing on management Surely Munesia and Arnie were both Cartright? After all, it was well documented of our new transfer policy. I have a theory, that we are using 'moneyball' as our new way forward. If you look at the players we have signed over the last twelve months, most fall into this category. Cheap, young and talented, but troubled. Without knowing the full facts it would be harsh to criticise Cartright. We can only judge him on this season, which would be deemed a huge success. We have spent low, have players with sell on value above what was paid, and have taken the club forward. Why were they both Cartwright? I don't think he's solely responsible for all the players we bring in? Hughes is a massive Bundesliga fan and it was also reported that his Barca connections played a part in getting Muniesa here. I have no idea whether it was Cartright or Hughes. Just seems a coincidence that we have fished in that pond and succeeded,since Pulis has left and he arrived . Im sure Hughes has the T shirt, and can order a coffee in German, but I think it would be foolish to disregard Cartright as a man who has enjoyed more success ordering a pizza than signing our supposed number one targets in the transfer window.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2014 21:27:07 GMT
I find the contents of this debate somewhat confusing and divisive . I cannot imagine any player coming to this club without the managers total agreement as to his ability and long term prospects. I'm pretty sure that Cartwright has a large part to play (at times) in this process and in conjunction with Tony Scholes then has to negotiate a contract with both the player and in liason with Mark Hughes make sure we are getting a good deal.
I'm not sure as to Cartwrights worth or abilities , but things have certainly improved in relation to players we have brought in this year. We can all criticise and air our frustrations on the failure to sign particular players , but one should remember that this is not necessarily down to the actions of one man or Stoke city FC as a whole. It can be as a result of many factors and not just money.
This close season should cast more light on our dealings for the future and perhaps better and more accurate conclusions can then be drawn. If there is a weak link in this process , then I feel sure that Mark Hughes is the type of manager that will address this issue and deal with it personally.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2014 21:32:53 GMT
Why were they both Cartwright? I don't think he's solely responsible for all the players we bring in? Hughes is a massive Bundesliga fan and it was also reported that his Barca connections played a part in getting Muniesa here. I have no idea whether it was Cartright or Hughes. Just seems a coincidence that we have fished in that pond and succeeded,since Pulis has left and he arrived . Im sure Hughes has the T shirt, and can order a coffee in German, but I think it would be foolish to disregard Cartright as a man who has enjoyed more success ordering a pizza than signing our supposed number one targets in the transfer window. I agree. It has to be more complicated than that. Equally daft to assume Hughes hasn't played any part in identifying players despite a largely excellent record in the foreign market as a manager.
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Post by prettything on Apr 25, 2014 21:40:47 GMT
I have no idea whether it was Cartright or Hughes. Just seems a coincidence that we have fished in that pond and succeeded,since Pulis has left and he arrived . Im sure Hughes has the T shirt, and can order a coffee in German, but I think it would be foolish to disregard Cartright as a man who has enjoyed more success ordering a pizza than signing our supposed number one targets in the transfer window. I agree. It has to be more complicated than that. Equally daft to assume Hughes hasn't played any part in identifying players despite a largely excellent record in the foreign market as a manager. Not assuming Hughes had anything to do with attracting these types of players, either. In fact, it can only be a positive, which could be argued that the previous manger could never of influenced. My theory is that Cartright finds them, generally, and Hughes runs the rule. My main point, is that Cartrights influence shouldn't be lazily dismissed.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 26, 2014 0:17:51 GMT
We keep being told that directors of football and their ilk are the way forward but I'm not convinced. Spurs keep using them and keep spunking money up the wall and their best recent years have come with Redknapp who demanded full control. For me, the manager should control who does and doesn't come in and if the board doesn't trust him in that department they should get rid. Then again, getting your 'top targets' is overrated sometimes. If we'd done that in 2008 we might have started the season having spunked £15m or so on Ledley, Gardner and Carson instead of ending up with Sorensen, Faye and Ethers. Hanging in there to get our targets in 2011 didn't exactly improve us either. The manager has to have the final say. No point signing anyone unless he's going to pick them for the team. I much prefer this set-up though to what we had before, where we actually seem to scout players beyond Sunderland's reserves. Funnily enough, I've just finished reading a book on scouts- 'The Nowhere Men,' a fairly entertaining read it is as well with quite a few Stoke mentions- particularly regarding some good foreign players who were recommended to Stoke, but who never ended up signing. Who and when?
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Post by mistergumby on Apr 26, 2014 0:26:37 GMT
I don't know what he does to be honest. No doubt Wolstanton will tell me???? And no doubt you and others will fail to understand again??? I won't bother because people need a scapegoat and why not? There are still people who believe its down to Cartwright if we sign a player we have targeted or not. Look at this thread. It's more fun to ramble on about pizzas! Mon Dieu! A voice of reason. Love how folks who claim to be 'supporters' of Stoke City can't wait to knock the club, it's players and employees and then purport that they have definitive knowledge of all the dealings that go on within SCFC based, at best, on supposition and rumour. Additionally, the supposed consensus that innuendo, 'arv erd' and frankly, complete crap when repeated so often that it becomes the accepted truth is laughable .
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Post by Trouserdog on Apr 26, 2014 5:39:57 GMT
The manager has to have the final say. No point signing anyone unless he's going to pick them for the team. I much prefer this set-up though to what we had before, where we actually seem to scout players beyond Sunderland's reserves. Funnily enough, I've just finished reading a book on scouts- 'The Nowhere Men,' a fairly entertaining read it is as well with quite a few Stoke mentions- particularly regarding some good foreign players who were recommended to Stoke, but who never ended up signing. Who and when? Pastore was the main one- identified by Gary Penrice (who is interviewed in the book) before he signed for Palermo in 2009. There are a couple of other mentions, but can't remember whether it mentioned names or just alluded to the fact that we'd passed on players that scouts had recommended. There's also a big section on Butland and his links with Carto.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2014 7:34:10 GMT
I agree. It has to be more complicated than that. Equally daft to assume Hughes hasn't played any part in identifying players despite a largely excellent record in the foreign market as a manager. Not assuming Hughes had anything to do with attracting these types of players, either. In fact, it can only be a positive, which could be argued that the previous manger could never of influenced. My theory is that Cartright finds them, generally, and Hughes runs the rule. My main point, is that Cartrights influence shouldn't be lazily dismissed. I don't think it's that straightforward, as I said. I think it's collaborative and I'd be surprised if Arnie, Muniesa, Ireland and Guidetti were anything other than Hughes signings. I know he goes to watch a lot of football abroad himself as well.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 26, 2014 7:42:08 GMT
I'd certainly rather the plump pizza eating Cartwright directing affairs than Hughes's seedy agent but he was definitely introduced - and I quote - as the 'head of the recruitment department' and in those simple five words he has clearly failed so far.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2014 8:08:37 GMT
Let's see what he uncovers with a fair amount of cash to spend this summer (from our Sky money due to the elevated finish and from the inevitable Bego sale) before we start giving him any medals. Jezz the elevated finish will go towards the debt, can't see a big transfer budget for Hughes. If Asmir goes it'll be interesting to see what he's allowed to spend. Spot on, I can't see us spending big again any time soon - I predict a lot of disappointed Stokies on here around August time. I'd rather us have low key windows like the last few, we've made some great signings over the past year and long may it continue.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 26, 2014 8:16:52 GMT
Jezz the elevated finish will go towards the debt, can't see a big transfer budget for Hughes. If Asmir goes it'll be interesting to see what he's allowed to spend. Spot on, I can't see us spending big again any time soon - I predict a lot of disappointed Stokies on here around August time. I'd rather us have low key windows like the last few, we've made some great signings over the past year and long may it continue. We are surely going to spend somewhere between 5 and 10 million notes on a striker aren't we?
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Post by cousindupree on Apr 26, 2014 8:27:32 GMT
A quick review of Cartwright's CV suggests he doesn't have great experience of scouting players.In fairness that's something that only comes with experience and its clear his is limited.You would certainly trust Hughes's view of a talent above Cartwright's and indeed there is evidence of scouting trips done by Hughes. Cartwright is a poacher turned gamekeeper and should add some value in handling the scourge of football that are agents. It seems he is more involved in contract negotiations and helping Scholes and christ knows he needs help.But as Clyde said their high fiving pizza munching made them look like Dumb and Dumber his success should be measured in how many deals we successfully conclude and I am far from convinced. This close season will show his worth especially with him negotiating the probable sale of Bego
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Apr 26, 2014 8:41:44 GMT
I'd certainly rather the plump pizza eating Cartwright directing affairs than Hughes's seedy agent but he was definitely introduced - and I quote - as the 'head of the recruitment department' and in those simple five words he has clearly failed so far. As someone as wisely said on this thread, if you repeat shit often enough it becomes accepted wisdom. How many times has this particular piece of shit been put into its proper context for you and yet here we are again? You have agitated so often on this subject (on the basis that you actually believe that other forces than St Peter dismissed Pulis) that some less bright sparks have swallowed some of the bollocks hook line and sinker. One individual who has not a clue about how long Beswicks have been involved with the club and what they have done for the club to get players in and the donkey work involved in transfers sorted has stated he doesn't trust them! On what basis? In the Pulis days we were completely reliant on them. They are the clubs friend not the enemy but unfortunately you and others have chosen to paint them otherwise based on a complete crock of shit about Pulis (who incidentally will undoubtedly have them involved at Palace). Isn't it time to actually appreciate your football club is now big enough to have a professional approach to recruitment of players at all levels rather than relying on Harry Redknapps cast offs? We suddenly seem to be finding better, younger players at a fraction of the cost. That will surely increase over time. Is that not good news?
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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 26, 2014 8:45:46 GMT
I'd certainly rather the plump pizza eating Cartwright directing affairs than Hughes's seedy agent but he was definitely introduced - and I quote - as the 'head of the recruitment department' and in those simple five words he has clearly failed so far. As someone as wisely said on this thread, if you repeat shit often enough it becomes accepted wisdom. How many times has this particular piece of shit been put into its proper context for you and yet here we are again? You have agitated so often on this subject (on the basis that you actually believe that other forces than St Peter dismissed Pulis) that some less bright sparks have swallowed some of the bollocks hook line and sinker. One individual who has not a clue about how long Beswicks have been involved with the club and what they have done for the club to get players in and the donkey work involved in transfers sorted has stated he doesn't trust them! On what basis? In the Pulis days we were completely reliant on them. They are the clubs friend not the enemy but unfortunately you and others have chosen to paint them otherwise based on a complete crock of shit about Pulis (who incidentally will undoubtedly have them involved at Palace). Isn't it time to actually appreciate your football club is now big enough to have a professional approach to recruitment of players at all levels rather than relying on Harry Redknapps cast offs? We suddenly seem to be finding better, younger players at a fraction of the cost. That will surely increase over time. Is that not good news? Simple question. Do you think that Cartwright has done a good job since he joined the club? Answer that then we might see some 'agendas' and 'less than bright sparks'
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Post by Mint Berry Barks on Apr 26, 2014 8:47:23 GMT
Stoke fans always need someone or something to moan about, even if it's completely uncalled for.
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Apr 26, 2014 8:56:11 GMT
As someone as wisely said on this thread, if you repeat shit often enough it becomes accepted wisdom. How many times has this particular piece of shit been put into its proper context for you and yet here we are again? You have agitated so often on this subject (on the basis that you actually believe that other forces than St Peter dismissed Pulis) that some less bright sparks have swallowed some of the bollocks hook line and sinker. One individual who has not a clue about how long Beswicks have been involved with the club and what they have done for the club to get players in and the donkey work involved in transfers sorted has stated he doesn't trust them! On what basis? In the Pulis days we were completely reliant on them. They are the clubs friend not the enemy but unfortunately you and others have chosen to paint them otherwise based on a complete crock of shit about Pulis (who incidentally will undoubtedly have them involved at Palace). Isn't it time to actually appreciate your football club is now big enough to have a professional approach to recruitment of players at all levels rather than relying on Harry Redknapps cast offs? We suddenly seem to be finding better, younger players at a fraction of the cost. That will surely increase over time. Is that not good news? Simple question. Do you think that Cartwright has done a good job since he joined the club? Answer that then we might see some 'agendas' and 'less than bright sparks' I wouldn't pretend to be in a position to judge if an individual has done a good job. What we will be able to judge over time is if the process is working well. The basis on which the best clubs in the world operate is that they have good processes that operate regardless of say, who the manager is. That applies to areas of the club such as player recruitment and youth development. The club should have a vision of what it wants to be and stay consistent to that vision. Stoke as one of the smaller Premier League clubs cannot operate as they have in the last few years - we all know that. We have to buy wisely and develop some of our own. Hopefully the processes and people have been put into place that make this happen successfully. Time will tell and that doesn't mean spending shed loads in the summer!
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Post by trigger on Apr 26, 2014 8:57:03 GMT
Spot on, I can't see us spending big again any time soon - I predict a lot of disappointed Stokies on here around August time. I'd rather us have low key windows like the last few, we've made some great signings over the past year and long may it continue. We are surely going to spend somewhere between 5 and 10 million notes on a striker aren't we? Not as I know to, positive I included you on a pm last transfer window. Stupidly I booked a days holiday in order to watch SSN Transfer Centre, when the day before I was told I shouldn't have bothered as nothing will happen, money was then and still is I'm led to believe pretty scarce. I'll be seeing the person again next week and I'll ask him again what's occurring.
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