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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2014 0:30:34 GMT
....Under FA rules.?
I'm referring to the incident in the Chelsea v Arsenal game.
The ref decides to send off Gibbs even though Chamberlain admits that it was him who committed the foul.
Could the referee have then decided that he had targeted the wrong player and changed his sending off decision..?
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Post by johnfarmersmum on Mar 23, 2014 0:36:27 GMT
Strange one this. The Assistant Ref gives the penalty so I am left wondering why the ref has sent the wrong player off ? Surely the Assistant should have given the correct info re Chamberlain. Big decision at the end of the France v Ireland rugger game last week and an independent panel quickly made the right call. Times should be a changing.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Mar 23, 2014 0:44:12 GMT
....Under FA rules.? I'm referring to the incident in the Chelsea v Arsenal game. The ref decides to send off Gibbs even though Chamberlain admits that it was him who committed the foul. Could the referee have then decided that he had targeted the wrong player and changed his sending off decision..? Should have sent the Ox off too, for arguing with the ref. {tongue in cheek smiley whatnot} |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2014 0:47:17 GMT
It could be the first time in Premiership history that a player is actively seen arguing with a referee to be sent off....
Unless of course, you know different.!!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2014 0:53:38 GMT
I always thought a ref could change his mind at any point up until the moment play resumed. So, he sends Gibbs off. Gibbs walks down the tunnell. Chamberlain talks to him and changes the ref's mind. The ref can then call Gibbs back and send Chamberlain off up to the point the penalty is taken. Once the penalty has been taken, then he can't recall Gibbs. If the ref is convinced that Gibbs was the right man, why didn't he book Chamberlain for trying to deceive him? if he thought Chamberlain was telling the truth, why didn't he call Gibbs back onto the pitch? Shit refereeing either way, but at least justice was done with a thumping for the the Wenger boys.  |
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Mar 23, 2014 0:53:49 GMT
It could be the first time in Premiership history that a player is actively seen arguing with a referee to be sent off.... Unless of course, you know different.!! Whatever happened to dissent? |
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Post by kingstokie on Mar 23, 2014 0:56:19 GMT
In this scenario the ref gives the penalty. Then after Hunt says it wasn't he then changes his decision. Is the rule different for red cards?
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Post by musik on Mar 23, 2014 1:02:44 GMT
Hellu! I don't think any rules are covering this. Of course the ref can change his mind. Whatever the decision might be. It's all about common sense.  cranberry juice / musik |
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Mar 23, 2014 6:52:48 GMT
I think the problem yesterday originated with the assistant ref. For some reason, the ref did not see the penalty. He consults with the assistant ref who says it was a penalty and says it was Gibbs who committed the offence. So the ref gives Gibbs his marching orders. When Chambo says it was him, the ref decides he can't make a judgement as he didn't see the incident in the first place.
What I think he should have done is recall Gibbs and send off Chambo but warn Chambo that, if he is proved to have lied, then he will face an extra punishment.
More worrying is why there was a sending off at all. The penalty WAS a penalty - it was deliberate hand ball. But the shot was going wide and therefore it should not have been a red card as it was not a denial of a goal. My problem with all this is that the assistant ref correctly called the penalty BUT, FROM HIS POSITION, THERE WAS NO WAY HE COULD SEE WHETHER THE SHOT WAS GOING WIDE OR NOT. So, for me, there should never have been a question of a red card - and, instead, a yellow card should have accompanied the penalty. Arsenal should make these points in their appeal - the situation needs clarifying so assistant refs don't make that mistake again.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2014 7:24:00 GMT
I think the problem yesterday originated with the assistant ref. For some reason, the ref did not see the penalty. He consults with the assistant ref who says it was a penalty and says it was Gibbs who committed the offence. So the ref gives Gibbs his marching orders. When Chambo says it was him, the ref decides he can't make a judgement as he didn't see the incident in the first place. What I think he should have done is recall Gibbs and send off Chambo but warn Chambo that, if he is proved to have lied, then he will face an extra punishment. More worrying is why there was a sending off at all. The penalty WAS a penalty - it was deliberate hand ball. But the shot was going wide and therefore it should not have been a red card as it was not a denial of a goal. My problem with all this is that the assistant ref correctly called the penalty BUT, FROM HIS POSITION, THERE WAS NO WAY HE COULD SEE WHETHER THE SHOT WAS GOING WIDE OR NOT. So, for me, there should never have been a question of a red card - and, instead, a yellow card should have accompanied the penalty. Arsenal should make these points in their appeal - the situation needs clarifying so assistant refs don't make that mistake again.In my opinion, it should have been a red card. The Ox did not know it was going wide, otherwise he wouldn't have handled it, so the deliberate attempt to stop a goal merits a red card. |
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Mar 23, 2014 7:39:00 GMT
I think the problem yesterday originated with the assistant ref. For some reason, the ref did not see the penalty. He consults with the assistant ref who says it was a penalty and says it was Gibbs who committed the offence. So the ref gives Gibbs his marching orders. When Chambo says it was him, the ref decides he can't make a judgement as he didn't see the incident in the first place. What I think he should have done is recall Gibbs and send off Chambo but warn Chambo that, if he is proved to have lied, then he will face an extra punishment. More worrying is why there was a sending off at all. The penalty WAS a penalty - it was deliberate hand ball. But the shot was going wide and therefore it should not have been a red card as it was not a denial of a goal. My problem with all this is that the assistant ref correctly called the penalty BUT, FROM HIS POSITION, THERE WAS NO WAY HE COULD SEE WHETHER THE SHOT WAS GOING WIDE OR NOT. So, for me, there should never have been a question of a red card - and, instead, a yellow card should have accompanied the penalty. Arsenal should make these points in their appeal - the situation needs clarifying so assistant refs don't make that mistake again.In my opinion, it should have been a red card. The Ox did not know it was going wide, otherwise he wouldn't have handled it, so the deliberate attempt to stop a goal merits a red card. Yes, it was deliberate but the law doesn't say that it just has to be deliberate it says that there has to be a denial of a goal scoring opportunity - which in this case there wasn't. By the law it should have been a yellow card. Another thing that bothers me is that the 4th Official seems to agree with Wenger that the wrong player has been sent off. Obviously a monitor for the 4th official would sort this out. But, even with no monitor, I can't get my head round why the 4th official doesn't say to the ref (they are wired up) that Chambo is probably telling the truth and should be listened to. EDIT - having watched it again, I don't think the assistant ref got involved so I am probably bang out of order in my comments about the assistant being to blame for the red card. I'm assuming the 4th official had a big influence on the situation but that makes it all the more confusing that the wrong player got sent off.
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Post by skemstokie on Mar 23, 2014 8:24:08 GMT
I`m pretty sure a referee can change his mind before play is resumed if and a big if they had the balls to admit
they had made a mistake.Can anyone on this board see T.W.Atkinson doing that.
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Post by mosquito on Mar 23, 2014 8:48:30 GMT
Personally, I don't think a red card should be produced when a penalty is given, the player stopped a goal scoring opportunity, so the other team is awarded another goal scoring opportunity in a penalty. Both opportunities have the possibility of being missed. If committed outside of the 18 yard box, then it should be red.
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Post by stokiejoe on Mar 23, 2014 9:22:36 GMT
In my opinion, it should have been a red card. The Ox did not know it was going wide, otherwise he wouldn't have handled it, so the deliberate attempt to stop a goal merits a red card. Yes, it was deliberate but the law doesn't say that it just has to be deliberate it says that there has to be a denial of a goal scoring opportunity - which in this case there wasn't. By the law it should have been a yellow card. Another thing that bothers me is that the 4th Official seems to agree with Wenger that the wrong player has been sent off. Obviously a monitor for the 4th official would sort this out. But, even with no monitor, I can't get my head round why the 4th official doesn't say to the ref (they are wired up) that Chambo is probably telling the truth and should be listened to. EDIT - having watched it again, I don't think the assistant ref got involved so I am probably bang out of order in my comments about the assistant being to blame for the red card. I'm assuming the 4th official had a big influence on the situation but that makes it all the more confusing that the wrong player got sent off.
I think it was the ref and that he can change his mind until play resumes. After that he I believe he cannot correct his error and I suppose his only way out was to send off Ox which would have been harsh. It wasn't a clear goalscoring opportunity. The problem is what to do next. Clealy the Gibbs card should be rescinded but what about Ox? In principle the ref has seen the incident and adjudicated, it isn't violent conduct or an off the ball incident anyway so that rules out the retrospective panel. Academic I know but if the ref can correct a mistake once the match has finished what about a wrongly disallowed goal? Was he also wrong in imposing a red card anyway. Common sense says rescind the Gibbs card and punish Ox but common sense and FA rules don't have a lot in common. A mess whichever way you look at it and more ammunition to have video assistance |
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Post by britvic72 on Mar 23, 2014 9:39:46 GMT
Only if they have a mind to change. I understand most are pre-programmed with something called top team bias. Yesterday's version on display had a malfunction as two top teams were playing it led to a mistaken identity case. The version will be rebuilt in the Championship next week before re-introduction to big stage for a top drawer performance for Chelsea against little Stoke  |
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Post by PerCyfilth ....Captains Log on Mar 23, 2014 10:45:32 GMT
In my opinion, it should have been a red card. The Ox did not know it was going wide, otherwise he wouldn't have handled it, so the deliberate attempt to stop a goal merits a red card. Yes, it was deliberate but the law doesn't say that it just has to be deliberate it says that there has to be a denial of a goal scoring opportunity - which in this case there wasn't. By the law it should have been a yellow card. Another thing that bothers me is that the 4th Official seems to agree with Wenger that the wrong player has been sent off. Obviously a monitor for the 4th official would sort this out. But, even with no monitor, I can't get my head round why the 4th official doesn't say to the ref (they are wired up) that Chambo is probably telling the truth and should be listened to. EDIT - having watched it again, I don't think the assistant ref got involved so I am probably bang out of order in my comments about the assistant being to blame for the red card. I'm assuming the 4th official had a big influence on the situation but that makes it all the more confusing that the wrong player got sent off.
Watched this closely and the assistant gave nothing..no flag across the chest or anything. Marriner consulted the 4th official a certain Anthony Taylor by earpiece and gave the decision. Its no wonder he sent the wrong player off with Taylor involved..the refs version of Stevie Wonder. |
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Post by partickpotter on Mar 23, 2014 10:49:09 GMT
The bigger question surely is "Couldn't their mothers have changed their minds?".
We all know, of course, they don't have fathers.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2014 13:11:38 GMT
I think the problem yesterday originated with the assistant ref. For some reason, the ref did not see the penalty. He consults with the assistant ref who says it was a penalty and says it was Gibbs who committed the offence. So the ref gives Gibbs his marching orders. When Chambo says it was him, the ref decides he can't make a judgement as he didn't see the incident in the first place. What I think he should have done is recall Gibbs and send off Chambo but warn Chambo that, if he is proved to have lied, then he will face an extra punishment. More worrying is why there was a sending off at all. The penalty WAS a penalty - it was deliberate hand ball. But the shot was going wide and therefore it should not have been a red card as it was not a denial of a goal. My problem with all this is that the assistant ref correctly called the penalty BUT, FROM HIS POSITION, THERE WAS NO WAY HE COULD SEE WHETHER THE SHOT WAS GOING WIDE OR NOT. So, for me, there should never have been a question of a red card - and, instead, a yellow card should have accompanied the penalty. Arsenal should make these points in their appeal - the situation needs clarifying so assistant refs don't make that mistake again.Correct. |
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