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Post by mcf on Mar 3, 2014 8:28:56 GMT
aren't good enough to bed now?
Since Hughes changed/altered* his ways from the point we dropped in the bottom 3 then we haven't looked back have we?
Yet another goal that was created from a long Shawcross ball to Crouch...and then Walters and the referee did the rest.
That said, that is not the only reason.
The effort and desire, and the way the group all sticks together is wonderful to see and Hughes has done exceptionally well on this front.
His tactics for this game were spot on as well - I thought some of our football was of real quality in the second half at times as we pinned them back.
Well done Arnie as well.
*delete as you see fit
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Post by werrington on Mar 3, 2014 8:39:29 GMT
Maybes maybes not
You stated some very good points but the main one for me is the one you left out Merk
The squad was stripped of all pace and given the money spent on it that was a disgrace
Hughes will not have the financial backing Pulis got so to rectify that will take time
Let's not dwell though and look to what seems to me to be a very rosy future
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Post by f1rew0rks on Mar 3, 2014 8:52:33 GMT
The squad are NOT good enough to play fancy tippy tappy football. I think that was what was being said. They needed a plan A & plan B, just like almost every team but were so fixated on improving the style they forgot about the more direct route.
Now they are doing both the opposition are stretched and we are reaping the rewards, even without pace.
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Post by Clem Fandango on Mar 3, 2014 9:00:27 GMT
For me it remains to be seen whether we've got the know how to beat teams around us. we've still dropped far too many points to teams around us and that does need to rectified. We've played well against the bigger teams because they've come and attacked however when we've had teams play us who put numbers behind the ball then we've struggled at times to break them down. We perhaps need a bit more pace to help with that.
I dont think we need to spend huge especially since Hughes has managed to add some real quality with very little outlay.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Mar 3, 2014 9:01:25 GMT
Absolutely spot on.
When you think that Glenn Whelan cost £500,000 from Sheff Weds when we were still in the Championship and they bring £42 MILLION Mezut Ozil off the bench, our lads compete really well against better quality, more expensive, better paid players.
It's not all about quality. Character and team spirit count for a hell of a lot. The lack of respect for some players, like Whelan and Super Jon Balls of Steel Walters is very disappointing.
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Post by chiswickpotter on Mar 3, 2014 9:02:21 GMT
Maybes maybes not You stated some very good points but the main one for me is the one you left out Merk The squad was stripped of all pace and given the money spent on it that was a disgrace Hughes will not have the financial backing Pulis got so to rectify that will take time Let's not dwell though and look to what seems to me to be a very rosy future No team outside the top 7 or 8 has the ability to generate resources to be able to buy the quality needed to play tippy tappy football. Swansea have tried but are finding it hard, many have failed. Sunderland and Villa with vastly greater self generated resource potential than us can't make it happen. Southampton have both an academy but have spent hugely backed by an unstable ownership but are still only 9th. Hughes inherited a strong resilient backbone including 9 of Saturday's starting 11. We have a back 7 that is competitive with anyone beyond the top 7 and Crouch as a focal point up front. As said many times before, we have not spent a relatively large amount given we had over 2 decades out of the top flight and had a very weak player asset base on promotion and Hughes inherited a squad worth over £80 million. He is evolving it slowly into a mix of long ball and more measured play but to paint the squad he inherited as a disgrace is nonsense. If he was that worried about pace, one assumes he would have kept Jerome, Kightly and Jones rather than the slower player she has retained. Pace is not the be all and end all as Jerome regularly illustrates. |
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Post by werrington on Mar 3, 2014 9:04:43 GMT
Chiswick
I said the lack of pace was a disgrace
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Post by salopstick on Mar 3, 2014 9:20:38 GMT
aren't good enough to bed now? Since Hughes changed/altered* his ways from the point we dropped in the bottom 3 then we haven't looked back have we? Yet another goal that was created from a long Shawcross ball to Crouch...and then Walters and the referee did the rest. That said, that is not the only reason. The effort and desire, and the way the group all sticks together is wonderful to see and Hughes has done exceptionally well on this front. His tactics for this game were spot on as well - I thought some of our football was of real quality in the second half at times as we pinned them back. Well done Arnie as well. *delete as you see fit can you accept it will take Hughes more than half a season to turn a team indoctrinated in hoofball to try and play more football and that at times we won't be the best whilst they learn |
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Post by Mint Berry Barks on Mar 3, 2014 9:21:05 GMT
We weren't any different to any other Premier League team when Pulis left.
We had a set of very good players, a set of distinctly average ones and some utter dross like pretty much every other similar club in the league. Personally, I always thought our better players weren't being utilized to their full potential under Pulis over the last couple of seasons and if it did ever 'click', the game plan was seemingly torn up and we were back to square one.
Hughes was always going to need a bit of time to mold the current crop into a system which he wanted to play and many of our better players seem to be thriving as a result of that on a more consistent basis. I'm also a fan of the signings Hughes has made with what little money he's had available and hopefully that continues in the summer as we move on some of the dross and bring in some more very good players.
Pulis left us with a decent foundation and I think Hughes will build on that and make us a very exciting team very soon.
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Post by RAF on Mar 3, 2014 9:26:09 GMT
aren't good enough to bed now? Since Hughes changed/altered* his ways from the point we dropped in the bottom 3 then we haven't looked back have we? Yet another goal that was created from a long Shawcross ball to Crouch...and then Walters and the referee did the rest. That said, that is not the only reason. The effort and desire, and the way the group all sticks together is wonderful to see and Hughes has done exceptionally well on this front. His tactics for this game were spot on as well - I thought some of our football was of real quality in the second half at times as we pinned them back. Well done Arnie as well. *delete as you see fit Are we putting this to bed with the absolute bollocks that we are playing exactly like we did under Pulis, that we have lost our identity, the players won't play for the manager ,and Arnie is a useless show pony? I suppose you will also be putting the term PHW to bed as it has no meaning at this club anymore? Will you fuck. H |
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Post by adi on Mar 3, 2014 9:27:57 GMT
Our problem is goals, and in particular a shortage from our strikers. Will we replace the big target man with a more versatile player in the summer? I think Crouch is a great player but he limits the way we can play, unless we bring in a poacher to feed off him ( ode, agudelo??). All this hinges on staying up though admittedly,
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Post by mcf on Mar 3, 2014 9:54:27 GMT
aren't good enough to bed now? Since Hughes changed/altered* his ways from the point we dropped in the bottom 3 then we haven't looked back have we? Yet another goal that was created from a long Shawcross ball to Crouch...and then Walters and the referee did the rest. That said, that is not the only reason. The effort and desire, and the way the group all sticks together is wonderful to see and Hughes has done exceptionally well on this front. His tactics for this game were spot on as well - I thought some of our football was of real quality in the second half at times as we pinned them back. Well done Arnie as well. *delete as you see fit can you accept it will take Hughes more than half a season to turn a team indoctrinated in hoofball to try and play more football and that at times we won't be the best whilst they learn That's not really what's happened though. We suffered when we tried to play too much but since we've gone more direct then we've looked prefectly fine. There is no need for us to suffer. |
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Post by Pugsley on Mar 3, 2014 10:11:13 GMT
can you accept it will take Hughes more than half a season to turn a team indoctrinated in hoofball to try and play more football and that at times we won't be the best whilst they learn That's not really what's happened though. We suffered when we tried to play too much but since we've gone more direct then we've looked prefectly fine. There is no need for us to suffer.
It was great to see Ryan Shawcross hit a 50 yard pin point pass to our wide man who controlled it instantly, had a neat exchange of passes with his forward, then perfectly played in a midfielder who was running from deep towards the opposition goal, who then got off a long range shot that forced their goalkeeper into a decent save.
God how I've missed those great moves from the Pulis era......
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Post by salopstick on Mar 3, 2014 10:16:49 GMT
can you accept it will take Hughes more than half a season to turn a team indoctrinated in hoofball to try and play more football and that at times we won't be the best whilst they learn That's not really what's happened though. We suffered when we tried to play too much but since we've gone more direct then we've looked prefectly fine. There is no need for us to suffer. its fucking exactly what has happened so you wanted aimless punts without trying somthing different to continue? hughes has a plan b and C that he is prepared to try not stay with a plan A regardless of wether it is working. nothing wrong with direct football and pulisball but it cannot last for ever, but its easy to work out and nullify especially if used with 5 double deckers |
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Post by mcf on Mar 3, 2014 10:26:05 GMT
Calm down Gents
I never even mentioned Pulis - you are all obsessed with the bloke.
All I've said is that since we've gone more direct then our results have picked up and we have lifted ourselves out of the bottom 3.
That's it.
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Post by salopstick on Mar 3, 2014 10:30:38 GMT
Calm down Gents I never even mentioned Pulis - you are all obsessed with the bloke. All I've said is that since we've gone more direct then our results have picked up and we have lifted ourselves out of the bottom 3. That's it. we went in the bottom 3 in a very tight and strange season for a couple of hours because we played later your continued agenda bollocks highlighting this would seem to somebody who hadnt seen the table for months would suggest we had spent the majority of the season there it is the same from YOU every monday when they win you and tazi are the same cant enjoy the good wins because you are too busy trying to pick holes in the manager or in the case of tazi the players as well. |
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Mar 3, 2014 10:39:20 GMT
Non of this is much if a shock to those of us who suggested Hughes would be a good fit and a fairly easy transition to make because of how he has set up his teams in the past.
He was always a refined version of Tone which is why I personally was more than happy with his appointment.
If anything I think the players sometimes take the possession thing too literally which is ironically what I also thought about how they interpreted Tone's philosophy as well.
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Post by mcf on Mar 3, 2014 10:51:01 GMT
Calm down Gents I never even mentioned Pulis - you are all obsessed with the bloke. All I've said is that since we've gone more direct then our results have picked up and we have lifted ourselves out of the bottom 3. That's it. we went in the bottom 3 in a very tight and strange season for a couple of hours because we played later your continued agenda bollocks highlighting this would seem to somebody who hadnt seen the table for months would suggest we had spent the majority of the season there it is the same from YOU every monday when they win you and tazi are the same cant enjoy the good wins because you are too busy trying to pick holes in the manager or in the case of tazi the players as well. How on earth can I be picking holes in the manager when since Man U then it's been pretty spot on!? I wish we had been more direct sooner but as long as we pull away from danger then I will be happy. Better late than never. |
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Post by elystokie on Mar 3, 2014 10:59:04 GMT
Maybes maybes not You stated some very good points but the main one for me is the one you left out Merk The squad was stripped of all pace and given the money spent on it that was a disgrace Hughes will not have the financial backing Pulis got so to rectify that will take time Let's not dwell though and look to what seems to me to be a very rosy future No team outside the top 7 or 8 has the ability to generate resources to be able to buy the quality needed to play tippy tappy football. Swansea have tried but are finding it hard, many have failed. Sunderland and Villa with vastly greater self generated resource potential than us can't make it happen. Southampton have both an academy but have spent hugely backed by an unstable ownership but are still only 9th. Hughes inherited a strong resilient backbone including 9 of Saturday's starting 11. We have a back 7 that is competitive with anyone beyond the top 7 and Crouch as a focal point up front. As said many times before, we have not spent a relatively large amount given we had over 2 decades out of the top flight and had a very weak player asset base on promotion and Hughes inherited a squad worth over £80 million. He is evolving it slowly into a mix of long ball and more measured play but to paint the squad he inherited as a disgrace is nonsense. If he was that worried about pace, one assumes he would have kept Jerome, Kightly and Jones rather than the slower player she has retained. Pace is not the be all and end all as Jerome regularly illustrates. Just because you pay a certain amount for something/someone it doesn't necessarily follow that what you've bought is 'actually' worth that amount. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2014 11:06:28 GMT
We need a goalscorer, end of. Having watched it again this morning, we could have won by more. Goalscorer and I,ll be happy!
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Mar 3, 2014 11:31:51 GMT
We need a goalscorer, end of. Having watched it again this morning, we could have won by more. Goalscorer and I,ll be happy! I agree. Much as I like Crouch as a player and as a bloke, a more mobile striker with a bit of pace and a good finish could easily have had a hat trick on Saturday. Crouch simply isn't suited to a role leading the line and, as often as not, very much a lone striker. |
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Post by mcf on Mar 3, 2014 11:50:03 GMT
We need a goalscorer, end of. Having watched it again this morning, we could have won by more. Goalscorer and I,ll be happy! I agree. Much as I like Crouch as a player and as a bloke, a more mobile striker with a bit of pace and a good finish could easily have had a hat trick on Saturday. Crouch simply isn't suited to a role leading the line and, as often as not, very much a lone striker. I don't buy this he 'can't lead the line' argument. We've just got 7 out of 9 points at home and scored one of them and been part of some of the other goals. I don't know what some of you expect. He won nearly every ball that was hit up to him on Saturday. |
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Mar 3, 2014 12:03:42 GMT
I agree. Much as I like Crouch as a player and as a bloke, a more mobile striker with a bit of pace and a good finish could easily have had a hat trick on Saturday. Crouch simply isn't suited to a role leading the line and, as often as not, very much a lone striker. I don't buy this he 'can't lead the line' argument. We've just got 7 out of 9 points at home and scored one of them and been part of some of the other goals. I don't know what some of you expect. He won nearly every ball that was hit up to him on Saturday. I agree Crouch had a good game. As you say he won most of his duels in the air - maybe 80% or 90%? But I still don't think he suits the role of being a lone striker isolated (for much of the time) from his fellow players. He's great at winning flick ons but he's actually very poor with his head in situations close to the 6 yard box. I think he knows this or he would have tried to head the chance from Adam's free kick. I can't think of another player who would have tried to kick it in! And he has no pace - I feel sorry for him when he has to chase after balls which have been put behind the last defender. He feels he has to chase them even though he has zero chance of actually getting them before the keeper. I think he's better when he plays deeper with a striker ahead of him - as happened in the build up to our penalty. Nice bloke though and he does have ten times more heart and twice the talent in his feet than Jones had. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 3, 2014 12:13:04 GMT
I don't buy this he 'can't lead the line' argument. We've just got 7 out of 9 points at home and scored one of them and been part of some of the other goals. I don't know what some of you expect. He won nearly every ball that was hit up to him on Saturday. I agree Crouch had a good game. As you say he won most of his duels in the air - maybe 80% or 90%? But I still don't think he suits the role of being a lone striker isolated (for much of the time) from his fellow players. He's great at winning flick ons but he's actually very poor with his head in situations close to the 6 yard box. I think he knows this or he would have tried to head the chance from Adam's free kick. I can't think of another player who would have tried to kick it in! And he has no pace - I feel sorry for him when he has to chase after balls which have been put behind the last defender. He feels he has to chase them even though he has zero chance of actually getting them before the keeper. I think he's better when he plays deeper with a striker ahead of him - as happened in the build up to our penalty. Nice bloke though and he does have ten times more heart and twice the talent in his feet than Jones had.
Absolutely John, a successful forward line with Peter Crouch in it, needs TWO players in it, for all the (imo - obvious) reasons that you've mentioned.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2014 12:14:49 GMT
It's the second half of the season and we're picking up results, that's a step in the right direction.
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Post by mcf on Mar 3, 2014 12:19:03 GMT
That didn't happen for the penalty though did it!!??? Crouch was top man and then dropped 3/4 yards off the defender and Walters peeled round the back - quality bit of movement and link up play!!??
I couldn't give a fuck if he has to chase some aimless balls...part of the job...especially against better teams.
Well it suited us at least 2 of the last 3 home games....as we won both....and he scored in the one we drew.
That 'suits' me even if it doesn't you.
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Post by mcf on Mar 3, 2014 12:22:18 GMT
I agree Crouch had a good game. As you say he won most of his duels in the air - maybe 80% or 90%? But I still don't think he suits the role of being a lone striker isolated (for much of the time) from his fellow players. He's great at winning flick ons but he's actually very poor with his head in situations close to the 6 yard box. I think he knows this or he would have tried to head the chance from Adam's free kick. I can't think of another player who would have tried to kick it in! And he has no pace - I feel sorry for him when he has to chase after balls which have been put behind the last defender. He feels he has to chase them even though he has zero chance of actually getting them before the keeper. I think he's better when he plays deeper with a striker ahead of him - as happened in the build up to our penalty. Nice bloke though and he does have ten times more heart and twice the talent in his feet than Jones had.
Absolutely John, a successful forward line with Peter Crouch in it, needs TWO players in it, for all the (imo - obvious) reasons that you've mentioned.
Obviously fucking not because we have just won a game where he played up on his own so that we could have the extra man in midfield so that Arsenal couldn't play through us. The decision to play Crouch up on his own with 3 central midfielders flanked with Arnie and Walters proved to be absolutely spot on. It isn't my prefered set up either usually but the fact we won the game says it was right surely??? |
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Post by hollybush on Mar 3, 2014 12:26:46 GMT
Would it be too simplistic of me, and unacceptable*, to suggest that the scenario we observed on Saturday was that a football team comprised of players bought by both the previous and current managers, beat a team in the top 4 of the Prem using tactics not dissimilar to tactics used by many football teams in the past?
*I suggest unacceptable because I am trying very hard to make statements of fact without employing an agenda.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 3, 2014 12:27:34 GMT
Absolutely John, a successful forward line with Peter Crouch in it, needs TWO players in it, for all the (imo - obvious) reasons that you've mentioned.
Obviously fucking not because we have just won a game where he played up on his own so that we could have the extra man in midfield so that Arsenal couldn't play through us. The decision to play Crouch up on his own with 3 central midfielders flanked with Arnie and Walters proved to be absolutely spot on. It isn't my prefered set up either usually but the fact we won the game says it was right surely???
Does it bollocks.
Just because you win a game it doesn't therefore mean that everything is right.
And you don't instantly forget all the games when you didn't score/win either.
We played 4-3-3 on Saturday, a fortnight ago you were giving it large because Hughes had followed your lead on gone back to a good old 4-4-1-1 system, now your praising us for going to back to the formation you were slagging off a fortnight ago.
I swear you're just on a perpetual wind up.
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Post by kn1ghty on Mar 3, 2014 12:36:00 GMT
Calling Arnie a show pony  From Saturdays display I find that a bit unfair . He had a blinder. |
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From Saturdays display I find that a bit unfair . He had a blinder. 
