|
Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2013 0:29:50 GMT
Unfortunately, it won't prevent the insult , personal abusive comments or inactivity by those in charge to act on such comments and behaviour.
|
|
|
Post by spongebobflathead on Dec 28, 2013 0:37:37 GMT
My opinions are my own and I'm not asking you to agree with me. I'm not seeking to win an argument either , but don't tell me to ''FFS GIVE IT A REST'' as this is an open forum and I have conducted myself far better than some on here. As for my agenda...I don't have one ....just common sense and fair play. The rest of submission not worthy of a sensible reply. So no agenda then mumf? You say 'we are officially THE dirtiest football team'. No agenda? Are you sure? Or deluded? I challenged your view regarding this, a point which you think is not worthy of reply. I will be polite. PLEASE give it a rest, not only are you tiresome you are winding ME up and I am protective of my BP these days. Atkinson was a fool yesterday, you know it and I know it. As for me, time to move on and the Spuds are up next, but I tell you mumf, when Atkinson next comes to the Brit (if allowed) he is going to get maximum abuse from myself and thousands of others and rightly so too. Well said , I've had it up to the neck with this lad , constantly putting himself on a pedestal and then having the nerve to say he's acted better than most ! Im all for opinions but this goes too far ,Patronising ,condescending agenda and when given a point that he disagrees he simply claims that he knows better and we simply don't understand the game like him all without the slightest hint of credible evidence ! The biggiest "look at me " poster on the board !
|
|
|
Post by greenbaize on Dec 28, 2013 0:38:14 GMT
What happened boxing day was a fucking disgrace, not a bad foul all game yet we had 3 sent off, that clearly biased bastard ref with one sided vision ruined a good game with us in total control until the show man made an appearance. I feel most for our fans that totally gave up their boxing day to travel and support us that wanker should be made to refund them with all costs to see one mans vindictive witch hunt against us. As for calling us mard arses how many shit fans complained every time that Scottish twat went into a rant if he didn't get his own way with the ref, by him ripping into officialdom how often did his spunk team benefit.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2013 0:38:24 GMT
My opinions are my own and I'm not asking you to agree with me. I'm not seeking to win an argument either , but don't tell me to ''FFS GIVE IT A REST'' as this is an open forum and I have conducted myself far better than some on here. As for my agenda...I don't have one ....just common sense and fair play. The rest of submission not worthy of a sensible reply. So no agenda then mumf? You say 'we are officially THE dirtiest football team'. No agenda? Are you sure? Or deluded? I challenged your view regarding this, a point which you think is not worthy of reply. I will be polite. PLEASE give it a rest, not only are you tiresome you are winding ME up and I am protective of my BP these days. Atkinson was a fool yesterday, you know it and I know it. As for me, time to move on and the Spuds are up next, but I tell you mumf, when Atkinson next comes to the Brit (if allowed) he is going to get maximum abuse from myself and thousands of others and rightly so too. I think I've made my points quite clear. Your medical frailities are not my concern but I do sympathise , however it will not prevent me from speaking my mind. Again....Please don't make sweeping assumptions about what I think about Atkinson...You get it wrong every time. Goodnight.
|
|
|
Post by spongebobflathead on Dec 28, 2013 0:41:54 GMT
Unfortunately, it won't prevent the insult , personal abusive comments or inactivity by those in charge to act on such comments and behaviour. Hardly abusive or insulting ? No more than your constant belittling of fellow supporters !
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2013 0:44:43 GMT
So no agenda then mumf? You say 'we are officially THE dirtiest football team'. No agenda? Are you sure? Or deluded? I challenged your view regarding this, a point which you think is not worthy of reply. I will be polite. PLEASE give it a rest, not only are you tiresome you are winding ME up and I am protective of my BP these days. Atkinson was a fool yesterday, you know it and I know it. As for me, time to move on and the Spuds are up next, but I tell you mumf, when Atkinson next comes to the Brit (if allowed) he is going to get maximum abuse from myself and thousands of others and rightly so too. Well said , I've had it up to the neck with this lad , constantly putting himself on a pedestal and then having the nerve to say he's acted better than most ! Im all for opinions but this goes too far ,Patronising ,condescending agenda and when given a point that he disagrees he simply claims that he knows better and we simply don't understand the game like him all without the slightest hint of credible evidence ! The biggiest "look at me " poster on the board ! He has always been the same, it's always been all about him, he's always right you know This series of posts is quite amazing, I've seen some outlandish comments but this is right up there.
|
|
|
Post by LiverpoolStokie on Dec 28, 2013 0:49:37 GMT
Mumf - look at my previous post on the Kamara thread. Atkinson has a lot of previous with us and it seems illogical to say this is by chance. We may be top of some sort of statistical league which is self-fulfilling in that if refs see us a 'dirty' then they are more likely to book us - they are human after all. Atkinson has given four red cards this season - on Thursday he doubled his tally and this adds to the two he has given to our player in the past. How consistent was Atkinson both yesterday with other players on the pitch and then compared to his fellow refs on the same day (see various examples on numerous Oatie threads)? Not very I would hazard a guess. I'm not saying the guy is corrupt but at best incompetent (yes, I do understand what competency means)and perhaps at worst (though he may not even realise it) has a problem with our club. For the sake of even handedness he needs to be kept away from our games. That said, he's a FIFA designated official and so the chances of the FA and his bosses listening to our club's hierarchy is minimal to say the least. You may not agree with what Coates has done but at least he has said something and this acts as a rallying point for the players and fans. Lucky Churchill didn't say - well that Hitler bloke has all the bullets so we may as well give up!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2013 0:57:32 GMT
Well said , I've had it up to the neck with this lad , constantly putting himself on a pedestal and then having the nerve to say he's acted better than most ! Im all for opinions but this goes too far ,Patronising ,condescending agenda and when given a point that he disagrees he simply claims that he knows better and we simply don't understand the game like him all without the slightest hint of credible evidence ! The biggiest "look at me " poster on the board ! He has always been the same, it's always been all about him, he's always right you know This series of posts is quite amazing, I've seen some outlandish comments but this is right up there. Not as amazing as the persistent obssessive stalking and abusive nature of your pathetic existence on the planet. Go and flirt some plaster at a wall rather than stalking me .... Hows that for blunt honesty...!! mumf
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2013 1:03:02 GMT
Mumf - look at my previous post on the Kamara thread. Atkinson has a lot of previous with us and it seems illogical to say this is by chance. We may be top of some sort of statistical league which is self-fulfilling in that if refs see us a 'dirty' then they are more likely to book us - they are human after all. Atkinson has given four red cards this season - on Thursday he doubled his tally and this adds to the two he has given to our player in the past. How consistent was Atkinson both yesterday with other players on the pitch and then compared to his fellow refs on the same day (see various examples on numerous Oatie threads)? Not very I would hazard a guess. I'm not saying the guy is corrupt but at best incompetent (yes, I do understand what competency means)and perhaps at worst (though he may not even realise it) has a problem with our club. For the sake of even handedness he needs to be kept away from our games. That said, he's a FIFA designated official and so the chances of the FA and his bosses listening to our club's hierarchy is minimal to say the least. You may not agree with what Coates has done but at least he has said something and this acts as a rallying point for the players and fans. Lucky Churchill didn't say - well that Hitler bloke has all the bullets so we may as well give up! Yes mate...You make some good points there. Just have a look at my other comments. I have stated his refereeing was harsh but there are others on this thread who seek to distort my comments. I'll have to get back to you later as I'm on call and have just taken a job off... Thanks anyway.. mumf
|
|
|
Post by PotteringThrough on Dec 28, 2013 1:25:22 GMT
Revenge is a dish best served cold. When Atkinson is next at the Brit and in the return game with Newcastle .. provided he doesn't retire before then.
|
|
|
Post by coates on Dec 28, 2013 3:21:05 GMT
this is a comment from that article on the telegraph.
Fergie • 4 hours ago ?
Right. Enough of the media backing up Stoke's outrage at Atkinon's performance on Thursday without actually analysing his decisions. Whelan kicked the ball away after his first foul - yellow card. He then kicked the back of Cabaye's leg with no attempt made whatsoever to go for the ball - yellow card. 2 yellows = red. The penalty decision was correctWilson pulled back Remy, denying a clear goal scoring opportunity - penalty and red card. In the build up to Newcastle's equaliser a minute later, Atkinson missed a blatant handball by Mike Williamson and should have awarded Stoke a free kick. In the second half in the build up to Gouffran's goal, from the replays I saw, the WHOLE ball did not appear to be outside the whole of the goalline. Certainly no replays conclusively proved that it was and neither the linesman, nor ref could be expected to call it out if it can't be proven with slow motion replays. The second penalty of the game was the correct decision and if anything, Atkinson may have made a mistake in not awarding Newcastle a third penalty of the match for Shawcross' lunge on Haidara. I'm not sure if he got the ball or not. So, Atkinson got all the major decisions correct with the exception of missing Williamson's handball, yet Stoke are up in arms because they've been getting away with fouls like Whelan's second yellow and tugs/shirt pulls/shoves in the box like Wilson's for years. Now a referee takes action by the letter of the law, they can't take it. Tough
surely not a united fan taking the moral high ground when it comes to referees?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2013 3:41:57 GMT
Will this just make us look like a bunch of mard arses? Sour grapes and all that. If it forces the powers that be to review the game properly, maybe something could come from it all. Lodging an official complaint about an abysmal, disorganised and incompetent display by an employee of the FA/PGMO is not an act that can rationally be challenged as being "mard arse" Players and managers occasionally get accused of bringing the game into disrepute, well i tell you something for nothing, referees and other officials are guilty of the same act themselves. However their punishments or lack thereof do not fit their crimes. The protection of officials is so nannyish that in and of itself is bring the game into disrepute. Managers nor players cannot even give a level-headed post-match response such as "i thought the referee today was poor and made bad decisions" without getting vilified and charged by this corrupt governing body. Any manager, team, club or set of supporters will be accused of "sour grapes" in these situations but that's part and parcel of the game and is irrelevant. If you choose to sit back and accept incompetency when it directly affects your livelihood and also that of your employers, employees and customers then you will always go under.Decisions by substandard officials end up costing not only the club money and stability but also that of the supporters who are the lifeblood of the game. Absolutely bang on. There are right and wrong ways to react to poor refereeing and incompetency on the pitch and certain ways we handled it at the time weren't the right way. A considered complaint and I think a dvd packed full of other incidents from this weekend alone to ask for clarification and a full response over why certain other incidents weren't given the same punishment is required. On the basis that countless managers have to explain themselves for each and every comment, ALL clubs have the responsibility to bring to light ALL poor decisions, demand explanation and make them public. When the referees are then made to publicly explain these things, this will hopefully make them think twice before giving any favourable decisions and also bring a more level playing field. We simply cannot have games run to different standards. There will always be differences in individual judgement, but a bad challenge (ie: Reid for West Brom) is a yellow card all day long; kicking the ball away (Rooney) is a yellow card all day long. It's one thing for referees to 'let games go' every now and then but these come down to basic punishments for dangerous play and delaying the restart of play which are cautionable offences. Its not about being a good, fair or reasonable ref, its about following and EQUALLY applying ALL of the rules that should apply for all teams in any given game. As soon as referees start to digress from this, they are going above and beyond their delegated and authorised powers; bringing the game in to disrepute and purposely, knowingly and unfairly providing a direct advantage to one team. I don't want all of these decisions going in Stoke's favour; I don't want some referees to apply discretion in our favour; I want referees to officiate games on an even, fair basis regardless of who they are and who is playing. I want us to win and lose games due to entirely to what the players do on the pitch. PC's letter itself isn't going to do anything; but being part of a joint movement from all 92 clubs (well...88 clubs who regularly receive injustice during games...) to publicise these issues through formal complaint and making public the responses. Referees have also got to allow captains to talk to them too. I think its a good rule to allow the captain ONLY to approach and speak to the referee. Any other player who confronts the referee should be fined; and also the referee should be required to cooperate and communicate with the captain. Referees who dont communicate with the captains should again be fined. An equal part of this is for officials to get back to booking players who use foul and abusive language to officials. It seemed to become acceptable with Rooney because 'thats part of Rooney' and I hate to see, especially on television, players abusing the refs like this and just walking away. If certain players then start getting numerous bans because of it, then they need to look at their own sporting behaviour on the pitch. There's no excuse for it and is not a requirement of being a passionate player. We've had certain managers who have pushed to get all forms of contact eliminated from the game and with the 'thanks' of the media, have created this whole confusion over what is dangerous and what isn't. Unfortunately, the officials have gone along with that because they dont want those managers criticising them. What is and isn't a dangerous challenge has remained the same since the start of the game; yet we now have uncertainty throughout and different criteria applied by different referees during different games. If we want a fair and equal game determined only by the players on the pitch, then every club has their part to do and have got to be willing to do this - even when, at times, decisions go in their favour. The fact that we're in this situation though is a very sad reflection of the game.
|
|
|
Post by Do it for dobing on Dec 28, 2013 3:48:23 GMT
The point is that Atkinson did not use any common sense,he gave a soft yellow to Whelan for the first offence which was stupid.The Newcastle players then acted badly by surrounding the Ref for the second offence surely he should have just taken his time and had a stern word with Whelan and told him next time you are off.Everything would have calmed down Hughes may have taken Whelan off.
In anyones book it was very poor by the Ref.On the other hand Stoke have to be aware that this Ref does not like us and plan accordingly
|
|
|
Post by CalgaryPotter on Dec 28, 2013 6:23:07 GMT
Having watched the game tonight I can 't understand Atkinson's decisions.
The first decision to me was merely to satisfy the crowd. Whelan went head to head following the challenge which was a nothing in my opinion but the crowd were satisfied by it. Whelan's second challenge was silly but the Newcastle players raised its profile. The ref should've realized the situation & should've give him a final warning at most.
Wilson's challenge I can't defend. It was a foul, whether it was red is debateable. Given the fact that Whelan had already been sent off, you would think a reasonable ref would have given the yellow. Shawcross was close & it wasn't convincing that the forward would've been clean through.
When all said and done, the only things hurt are pride & the goal difference. A win tomorrow will be a great remedy for the Newcastle blip.
The first half performance apart from the ref fuck ups was some of the best passing I've seen us put together for a few years.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2013 8:17:20 GMT
He has always been the same, it's always been all about him, he's always right you know This series of posts is quite amazing, I've seen some outlandish comments but this is right up there. Not as amazing as the persistent obssessive stalking and abusive nature of your pathetic existence on the planet. Go and flirt some plaster at a wall rather than stalking me .... Hows that for blunt honesty...!! mumf Yes that really hurts me Mumf it is amusing coming from you. Hypocrite!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2013 8:43:49 GMT
It is interesting to see some trying to justify atkinsons decisions. Immediately following the game I tried to as well, sometimes it is easier to try and do that rather than be apoplectic with rage at the injustice. The important one is the whelan sending off though and clearly neither are bookings. He's decided to take any excuse to send a stoke player off and ruin the game and of course it's very rare to see a player sent off in such circumstances. It was indefensible from atkinson.
I think we have been lucky with decisions against villa and sunderland recently so I'm trying to be calm. I think there is a serious problem with referee's in this country and mike riley fucked himself when he apologised to west brom earlier this season. Every week a new club will be asking for an apology
|
|
|
Post by Davef on Dec 28, 2013 8:59:22 GMT
Peter Coates is simply doing what he feels is best for the football club and if that means we don't have Martin Atkinson taking charge of one of our games for the foreseeable future then this complaint will have done its job.
Does anyone really think that any of the big clubs would sit back and allow this man to shaft them in the way he's continued to shaft us over the past few years (not that the spineless twat would continually shaft a big club).
No they wouldn't, so why should Stoke City accept it?
|
|
|
Post by RAF on Dec 28, 2013 9:06:49 GMT
We've finally grown a pair have we? Too little too late.
H
|
|
|
Post by britsabroad on Dec 28, 2013 9:12:14 GMT
I do wonder... with all the match fixing allegations that have come out, the standard (probably valid) response is that they get paid too much in the Premier League to risk it. Well, there's one person on the pitch every Saturday who perhaps doesn't get paid enough not to risk it.
Personally, i think Atkinson's just really shit. Worst in the league by some margin.
|
|
|
Post by Northy on Dec 28, 2013 9:15:12 GMT
Aren't they on something like £70k a year though, Isn't that enough for anybody?
|
|
|
Post by sportsman on Dec 28, 2013 9:19:13 GMT
Now all we have to do is prepare the lawyers for legal action for the next idiot that has a go at ryan for that 'horrific injury' not 'horrific tackle'. A tackle we see every other weekend but doesn't have the same resulting injury.
Then we're finally getting our arse in gear.
Someone will call us precious soon.
|
|
|
Post by enuntio on Dec 28, 2013 9:39:16 GMT
Bad Bad day at the office! It happens Yes but! No but! Spurs away then err is it Everton at home New Year's Day? Two tricky games...
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Dec 28, 2013 9:45:05 GMT
I'm delighted with Stoke making a formal complaint - hopefully now a proper assessment will be made of Atkinson's overall performance and not just focussing on individual marginal decisions. A referee is supposed to use his brain and judgement to allow a fair game of football to take place. In this he failed utterly on Saturday.
There is no way we should allow a cabal of ref pals protect him from appropriate action for a shocking performance; send the fucker up here to Scotland to officiate a Junior game.
|
|
|
Post by sportsman on Dec 28, 2013 9:51:49 GMT
All eyes on the tit today. Be interesting to see if he applies the same punishment for every tackle or shove. Bet he won't. And this is what we want as our complaint will hold more clout.
|
|
|
Post by kidcrewbob on Dec 28, 2013 9:51:50 GMT
I would like to see the betting patterns for our game against Newcastle......crap refereeing notwithstanding, looking back it was a bizarre sequence of events that make me deeply suspicious...
Does such data exist in the public domain - where you can see a breakdown on what was laid where, when & on what? Guessing not, but I knowthe Sporting Life publish the size and number of bets on horses don't they??
|
|
|
Post by Davef on Dec 28, 2013 9:54:04 GMT
All eyes on the tit today. Be interesting to see if he applies the same punishment for every tackle or shove. Bet he won't. And this is what we want as our complaint will hold more clout. He's the fourth official at Villa today, but is in charge of Southampton v Chelsea on New Years Day.
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Dec 28, 2013 9:54:55 GMT
this is a comment from that article on the telegraph. Fergie • 4 hours ago ? Right. Enough of the media backing up Stoke's outrage at Atkinon's performance on Thursday without actually analysing his decisions. Whelan kicked the ball away after his first foul - yellow card. He then kicked the back of Cabaye's leg with no attempt made whatsoever to go for the ball - yellow card. 2 yellows = red. The penalty decision was correctWilson pulled back Remy, denying a clear goal scoring opportunity - penalty and red card. In the build up to Newcastle's equaliser a minute later, Atkinson missed a blatant handball by Mike Williamson and should have awarded Stoke a free kick. In the second half in the build up to Gouffran's goal, from the replays I saw, the WHOLE ball did not appear to be outside the whole of the goalline. Certainly no replays conclusively proved that it was and neither the linesman, nor ref could be expected to call it out if it can't be proven with slow motion replays. The second penalty of the game was the correct decision and if anything, Atkinson may have made a mistake in not awarding Newcastle a third penalty of the match for Shawcross' lunge on Haidara. I'm not sure if he got the ball or not. So, Atkinson got all the major decisions correct with the exception of missing Williamson's handball, yet Stoke are up in arms because they've been getting away with fouls like Whelan's second yellow and tugs/shirt pulls/shoves in the box like Wilson's for years. Now a referee takes action by the letter of the law, they can't take it. Tough surely not a united fan taking the moral high ground when it comes to referees? He didn't miss a blatant handball at all, yes it was handball and yes it was blatant but Atkinson certainly didn't miss it. Evident by the fact, that being just three metres away and having a completely unobstructed view of the incident, he initially put his whistle to his lips to blow for the handball and then thought better of it and changed his mind!
|
|
|
Post by Davef on Dec 28, 2013 10:00:16 GMT
We've finally grown a pair have we? Too little too late. H In 2010 we requested that Mike Dean didn't take charge of our home game against Spurs following his performances in our games at Hull and Portsmouth when he sent off Faye and Wilkinson. Our request was ignored and Dean ultimately sent Whitehead off for nothing against Spurs. We complained about him after that and Dean didn't referee another Stoke game for a season and a half. As far as I'm aware we haven't had much trouble from him since.
|
|
|
Post by malteser68 on Dec 28, 2013 10:03:51 GMT
I just hope we also look at ourselves as well...We do have a history of shirt pulling ( as do many more ) but I don't think we are a cynical malicious gang of thugs as many in the press like to portray. Having said that , we are officially the dirtiest football team which in itself does not do us any favours in trying to put forward a case in relation to this complaint. Many have already made their feelings clearly known in relation to my ''take on the situation , but I try my best to be fair and impartial. I think we were harshly treated on a number of occasions , but not as bad as many would imply or suggest. Tazi has even suggested (and he's not on his own) that the ref is taking money ....well I'm sorry but that suggestion is both ridiculous and out of order. The comments by Terry Conroy and Nigel Johnson after the game didn't help but to be fair did not suggest anything sinister or fradulent. Overall ....I just hope we have learned our lesson of indiscipline which effectively cost us the game. what indiscipline ? The real indiscipline I witnessed was the shameful behavior of those 2 very sad excuses for human beings gouffran and debouchy surrounding whelan for nothing to get him the second yellow card for an innocuous tackle
|
|
|
Post by jeycov on Dec 28, 2013 10:05:31 GMT
Will this just make us look like a bunch of mard arses? Sour grapes and all that. If it forces the powers that be to review the game properly, maybe something could come from it all. I think that it is important to emphasise the issue of consistency. The FA / referees association have the opportunity to rerun all Premiership football games and take a good look at what is happening. They also have the task of managing and guiding officials to make the right decisions for most of the time If every incident that we were unhappy about (v Newcastle) was applied consistently at all the weekend games, then fair enough, however there would have been a lot more red and yellow cards imo Sour grapes, maybe - but there does seem to be an inconsistent approach when the high profile teams are involved. The Rooney case of only 1 yellow being a good example Officials have a thankless task but are paid to get major decisions right. Let's hope that the official comments made by Stoke are seen as constructive
|
|