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Post by Miles Offside on Nov 11, 2013 10:23:53 GMT
Credit to Walters and Ireland for two well taken goals - but what's happened to our defence?
The suicidal back pass from Pieters could've cost us an early goal. But the biggest concern was the overall positioning of our full backs. Last season we were gagging for full backs who could get over the halfway line without getting a nose bleed. Now, they're anywhere except defending their positions.
This means Huth & Shawcross are constantly being pulled out of position to cover for them.
We got lucky with the penalty, but they were lucky not to have Williams sent off for a challenge on Nzonzi in the first half.
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Post by chellpotter on Nov 11, 2013 10:36:09 GMT
Miles I hope you weren't spoiled by their in depth analysis of the game!
It really grates me when they can analize the Tottenham 0 Newcastle 1 game for seemingly an age and they just
analize Stoke's penalty award in our 3 -3 draw!
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Post by metalhead on Nov 11, 2013 10:39:08 GMT
I feel that Shawcross is carrying Huth. I watched on a stream yesterday and Huth was pulled out of position a few times and Shawcross was really our main man in defence. It was a matter of time before Swansea scored and they took their chances well.
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Post by Miles Offside on Nov 11, 2013 10:41:43 GMT
Chell - spot on mate.
Metal - I think you've got a point. Huth looks way off it at the mo. Maybe the Hernandez tackle is still having an effect.
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Post by ChrisKamarasPerm on Nov 11, 2013 10:42:29 GMT
The defensive capabilities of both Cameron and Pieters is questionable. Pieters is what I call a modern day fullback great at going forward but can't defend.
Cameron I just don't know what think of this guy last season I thought he was shocking , this season he started well but he can't defend. Look at the Southampton goal last week he was nowhere near Rodriguez for the header and the amount of times players turn and get behind him is very worrying.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Nov 11, 2013 11:05:35 GMT
Notice they didn't highlight the hand ball from the Swans player who put his handa on his head knowing full well it was a booking,but the Ref let play go on,+The Shits game only had one goal, yet gets 1st billing.  |
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Post by Gods on Nov 11, 2013 11:10:43 GMT
+The Shits game only had one goal, yet gets 1st billing. You can't really be too surprised at that, according to my unofficial poll about 50% of the nation pretend to support one or other of those two ridiculous football clubs. And a large number of them don't even have the decency to look a little bit embarrassed about it. |
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Post by Kjones9 on Nov 11, 2013 11:12:09 GMT
I'm just watching it now, the shit v shit match. I see the arse players still have no class, thier keepers knocked out on the floor and "mad dog" flamini's only concern is to confront the ref.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Nov 11, 2013 11:18:38 GMT
Cameron seems to have no positional sense for right back whatsoever
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Post by stoke4eva on Nov 11, 2013 11:38:21 GMT
last season we let every team cross the ball all day long knowing we would clear our lines.
this season we try and stop the crosses coming in.
i bet if you look at the stats it averages itself out!
We let more goals in through the middle of the park last season than we have this season but we have let more goals in from crosses this season then we did last season.
if our goal difference is better this season i will take it.
time will tell
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2013 12:02:21 GMT
6 clean sheets in 29 league games this calendar year. 5 wins in 29 league games this calendar year. 16 league defeats in this calendar year. 23 goals scored in the league this calendar year. 41 goals conceeded in the league this calendar year. Goal scorers... Walters 4 Crouch 4 Adam 3 Shawcross 2 Owen 1 Huth 1 Jerome 1 Kightly 1 Nzonzi 1 Begovic 1 Ireland 1 Arnautovic 1 Cameron 1 Pennant 1 On the plus side it's not long until January 2014.  |
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Post by Smudge_SCFC on Nov 11, 2013 14:27:22 GMT
6 clean sheets in 29 league games this calendar year. 6 wins in 29 league games this calendar year. 16 league defeats in this calendar year. 23 goals scored in the league this calendar year. 41 goals conceeded in the league this calendar year. Goal scorers... Walters 4 Crouch 4 Adam 3 Shawcross 2 Owen 1 Huth 1 Jerome 1 Kightly 1 Nzonzi 1 Begovic 1 Ireland 1 Arnautovic 1 Cameron 1 Pennant 1 On the plus side it's not long until January 2014. It's worse than you thought... we have only 5 league wins out of 29 games in this calendar year! 3 from 18 at the end of last season and 2 from 11 this season!  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2013 14:31:15 GMT
6 clean sheets in 29 league games this calendar year. 6 wins in 29 league games this calendar year. 16 league defeats in this calendar year. 23 goals scored in the league this calendar year. 41 goals conceeded in the league this calendar year. Goal scorers... Walters 4 Crouch 4 Adam 3 Shawcross 2 Owen 1 Huth 1 Jerome 1 Kightly 1 Nzonzi 1 Begovic 1 Ireland 1 Arnautovic 1 Cameron 1 Pennant 1 On the plus side it's not long until January 2014. It's worse than you thought... we have only 5 league wins out of 29 games in this calendar year! 3 from 18 at the end of last season and 2 from 11 this season! Oh aye it is, thanks for that, perks me up even more  |
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Post by Sergeant Muttley on Nov 11, 2013 14:34:07 GMT
The defensive capabilities of both Cameron and Pieters is questionable. Pieters is what I call a modern day fullback great at going forward but can't defend. Cameron I just don't know what think of this guy last season I thought he was shocking , this season he started well but he can't defend. Look at the Southampton goal last week he was nowhere near Rodriguez for the header and the amount of times players turn and get behind him is very worrying. That post is bang on the money mate |
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Post by Sergeant Muttley on Nov 11, 2013 14:36:48 GMT
6 clean sheets in 29 league games this calendar year. 6 wins in 29 league games this calendar year. 16 league defeats in this calendar year. 23 goals scored in the league this calendar year. 41 goals conceeded in the league this calendar year. Goal scorers... Walters 4 Crouch 4 Adam 3 Shawcross 2 Owen 1 Huth 1 Jerome 1 Kightly 1 Nzonzi 1 Begovic 1 Ireland 1 Arnautovic 1 Cameron 1 Pennant 1 On the plus side it's not long until January 2014. It's worse than you thought... we have only 5 league wins out of 29 games in this calendar year! 3 from 18 at the end of last season and 2 from 11 this season! 2013 will not be a year we remember fondly and the sooner it finishes the better for all concerned |
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Post by Gods on Nov 11, 2013 14:40:07 GMT
6 clean sheets in 29 league games this calendar year. 6 wins in 29 league games this calendar year. 16 league defeats in this calendar year. 23 goals scored in the league this calendar year. 41 goals conceeded in the league this calendar year. Goal scorers... Walters 4 Crouch 4 Adam 3 Shawcross 2 Owen 1 Huth 1 Jerome 1 Kightly 1 Nzonzi 1 Begovic 1 Ireland 1 Arnautovic 1 Cameron 1 Pennant 1 On the plus side it's not long until January 2014. It's worse than you thought... we have only 5 league wins out of 29 games in this calendar year! 3 from 18 at the end of last season and 2 from 11 this season! Could we be heading for the fewest wins in the clubs history in a single calendar year? Just thinking about the 84/85 holocaust season I think we won a few games in the 2nd half of the season prior to that and a few in the 2nd division in the first half of the season after that so it may eclipse that.I guess in the 1800's there were only about 10 teams in the league so perhaps there were fewer wins one season at that time  HoHum, it still seems extraordinairy to me that this calendar years debacle followed immediately on from a top flight record breaking 10 match unbeaten run which culminated in the 3-1 drubbing of Liverpool. I for one never saw it coming  |
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Post by Sergeant Muttley on Nov 11, 2013 14:42:24 GMT
It's worse than you thought... we have only 5 league wins out of 29 games in this calendar year! 3 from 18 at the end of last season and 2 from 11 this season! Could we be heading for the fewest wins in the clubs history in a single calendar year? Just thinking about the 84/85 holocaust season I think we won a few games in the 2nd half of the season prior to that and a few in the 2nd division in the first half of the season after that so it may eclipse that.I guess in the 1800's there were only about 10 teams in the league so perhaps there were fewer wins one season at that time HoHum, it still seems extraordinairy to me that this calendar years debacle followed immediately on from a top flight record breaking 10 match unbeaten run which culminated in the 3-1 drubbing of Liverpool. I for one never saw it coming We drew with Southampton after the Liverpool game mate but i know what you mean. |
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Post by thestatusquo on Nov 11, 2013 14:43:15 GMT
Cameron seems to have no positional sense for right back whatsoever This. |
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Post by Gods on Nov 11, 2013 14:46:12 GMT
Could we be heading for the fewest wins in the clubs history in a single calendar year? Just thinking about the 84/85 holocaust season I think we won a few games in the 2nd half of the season prior to that and a few in the 2nd division in the first half of the season after that so it may eclipse that.I guess in the 1800's there were only about 10 teams in the league so perhaps there were fewer wins one season at that time HoHum, it still seems extraordinairy to me that this calendar years debacle followed immediately on from a top flight record breaking 10 match unbeaten run which culminated in the 3-1 drubbing of Liverpool. I for one never saw it coming We drew with Southampton after the Liverpool game mate but i know what you mean. I never let the facts get in the way of one of my arguments Muttley |
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Post by luke45 on Nov 11, 2013 14:52:53 GMT
Overall I actually think Cameron and Pieters have been pretty decent this season. Cameron has arguably been one of our most consistent players so far and Pieters has improved a lot defensively since the opening game at Anfield. If your full backs go forward though it shouldn't be the job of the centre backs to come across and cover, your central midfield players should be reading the danger and filling in the gaps and making up a back four. I can't recall a single occasion Palacios or N'Zonzi did this yesterday. The best Stoke player I've ever seen at performing that role was Delap, he had a superb football brain and was forever dropping in and covering for other players when there was gaps.
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Post by burge2u on Nov 12, 2013 19:19:18 GMT
Overall I actually think Cameron and Pieters have been pretty decent this season. Cameron has arguably been one of our most consistent players so far and Pieters has improved a lot defensively since the opening game at Anfield. If your full backs go forward though it shouldn't be the job of the centre backs to come across and cover, your central midfield players should be reading the danger and filling in the gaps and making up a back four. I can't recall a single occasion Palacios or N'Zonzi did this yesterday. The best Stoke player I've ever seen at performing that role was Delap, he had a superb football brain and was forever dropping in and covering for other players when there was gaps You've just summarised our current problem exactly. |
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Post by fortressbritannia on Nov 12, 2013 19:48:53 GMT
Credit to Walters and Ireland for two well taken goals - but what's happened to our defence? The suicidal back pass from Pieters could've cost us an early goal. But the biggest concern was the overall positioning of our full backs. Last season we were gagging for full backs who could get over the halfway line without getting a nose bleed. Now, they're anywhere except defending their positions. This means Huth & Shawcross are constantly being pulled out of position to cover for them. We got lucky with the penalty, but they were lucky not to have Williams sent off for a challenge on Nzonzi in the first half. It's one of the reasons we need Wilkinson playing when fit (though keeping him fit is the issue). You simply cannot question him defensively, he can defend his position, good in the air, very rarely has a bad game, good defensive brain. Of course you can question him going forward but 75-80% of the time he should be concentrating on defending. Wilko has always been a consistent performer but in an age where we are seemingly obsessed with scoring and attacking, we forget how crucial defending is. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 13, 2013 3:17:13 GMT
're Pieters being good at going forward and poor at defending.
I completely disagree. I think on the whole his defending has been good. One on one he's outstanding but his positioning is decent at best.
Going forward on the whole I think he's been pretty crap. His crosses are terrible.
Cameron just shouldn't be allowed to cross the halfway line, I preferred last years Cameron at right back. Millions will disagree.
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Post by PotterLog on Nov 13, 2013 4:19:11 GMT
Overall I actually think Cameron and Pieters have been pretty decent this season. Cameron has arguably been one of our most consistent players so far and Pieters has improved a lot defensively since the opening game at Anfield. If your full backs go forward though it shouldn't be the job of the centre backs to come across and cover, your central midfield players should be reading the danger and filling in the gaps and making up a back four. I can't recall a single occasion Palacios or N'Zonzi did this yesterday. The best Stoke player I've ever seen at performing that role was Delap, he had a superb football brain and was forever dropping in and covering for other players when there was gaps. Our single biggest problem so far this season is the lack of protection afforded to the defence by the midfield. We just get carved open. |
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Post by potterpaul on Nov 13, 2013 6:26:48 GMT
Maybe we should try 5 at the back? I don't know how it will affect our overall play if at all.
532
Beggo
Wilko. Ryan Huth. Muniesa Pieters
Nzonzi Cameron/WP Irelland/Adam
Arnie. Walters/Crouch
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Post by mcf on Nov 13, 2013 7:48:00 GMT
The top goalscorers being perhaps the 3 players that get slagged off the most by the PHW intellectuals on here.
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Post by RAF on Nov 13, 2013 8:34:50 GMT
The top goalscorers being perhaps the 3 players that get slagged off the most by the PHW intellectuals on here. 'Top Goalscorers' lmao H :) |
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Post by onionman on Nov 13, 2013 14:17:48 GMT
Overall I actually think Cameron and Pieters have been pretty decent this season. Cameron has arguably been one of our most consistent players so far and Pieters has improved a lot defensively since the opening game at Anfield. If your full backs go forward though it shouldn't be the job of the centre backs to come across and cover, your central midfield players should be reading the danger and filling in the gaps and making up a back four. I can't recall a single occasion Palacios or N'Zonzi did this yesterday. The best Stoke player I've ever seen at performing that role was Delap, he had a superb football brain and was forever dropping in and covering for other players when there was gaps. Our single biggest problem so far this season is the lack of protection afforded to the defence by the midfield. We just get carved open. Ironically it's only now - immediately after we've lost Delap and also Whitehead - that what we need from our central midfielders more than ever is the unselfishness, fitness and footballing intelligence they specialised in. |
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