Worry times no doubt.

[Countydog]

Before I get shot down and accused of being a doom and gloom merchant let me explain my worries. After the first game against Liverpool I said that if we play that open we will be in for a struggle. I was shot down by those who told me how much better it was than the previous season etc and how it was so refreshing to see such good football and that it was only 1 game. The facts for me were that Liverpool won comfortably 1 - 0 and should have beaten us by more. It was only their wastefulness that kept us in it and ultimately we should have taken an undeserved point. I was immediately concerned.

Now after 8 games I am even more worried. I think talking about a striker crisis is almost a smokescreen over the more fundamental problems we have. Yes undoubtedly we need a forward but we also need to review our current tactics else we will find ourselves in serious trouble. As everybody knows under Tony Pulis we played a certain way, he put a squad together that was designed to play one way. Yes he tried and failed to bring in players of higher quality to perhaps slightly change our style, ultimately it didn't really change. In fact it probably got worse and for me it was the right time for him to go especially so given the divisions in our support. That said I would have tolerated him for another season just because I felt that for all our limitations and the lack of entertainment on offer he would keep us in the Prem. Tolerating a certain style to see the best players the country has to offer week in week out was a small price to pay. Having been watching Stoke since 1982 I was truly grateful for this given all the dross I had endured over the years. Quite simply like him or loathe him he was a safe pair of hands, 6 season in the Premier League is proof of that for me.

Now this is where I am going to have a pop at Mark Hughes. With a new Manager there will always be a change in style / ethos etc. Hughes has added one or two players to the squad but ultimately he has inherited Tony Pulis players. I do not think they are capable of drastically changing from one style to another, its too extreme for me, the changes need to be more subtle and gradual. We are now playing a passing style where we can keep the ball for long spells in areas of the pitch that will not harm the opposition. The minute we get anywhere near the final third we are clueless because A) Our forwards are not good enough and don't move quickly enough and b) we lack the quality to move the ball around quickly in the right areas. For me we therefore do need to mix it up, go back to basics and hit it long occasionally, we need to do the mucky stuff and stop the opposition from playing.

We stand off the opposition and let them play - against West Brom this was very evident. They (West Brom) are more accustomed to playing a passing style and for me have better players to do this . We should have therefore got about them, closed them down, snapped at ankles and stopped them. We didn't, we let them play and were ultimately very very lucky to get a point. This is Hughes fault - completely. He has to get back to basics and make us harder to beat else we are going to be in for a long hard season. He has to make the changes more subtle but keep certain aspects that make this current crop effective. Over time he can get his players in and only then we could perhaps play this way with better results.

Under Pulis we had players with lesser ability than the likes of Nzonzi, Adam and Arnie perhaps (although I'm not sure about him) for example we had players like Delap and Whitehead. However for what they lacked in ability they got us results through tenacity, working hard to close opponents down and having an excellent work ethic. Contrast that to the petulance of Nzonzi and the lack of fitness of Adam and you might see the point I am trying to make. Whatever happens this season it will not be Tony Pulis fault - we will never know what would have happened with him in charge. This is down to Mark Hughes and ultimately he will be judged by results - at the moment they are not really good enough.

Nevertheless I remain completely behind Mark Hughes and want him to succeed. The football is undoubtedly better to watch but for me its not effective at the moment and he needs to think seriously about that else we could well end up in deep trouble. These are worrying times absolutely, I fear for us.

Hope I haven't bored you all too much if you have been arsed to read my thoughts on a wet Monday morning, I have a day off work and I am a bit of a geek when it comes to Stoke. I also reckon I know what I am talking about.

[fentonstokie1]

And yet if Ireland or Arnie's chances had hit the target our overall performance would have been the same but we would be comfortably mid table and we wouldn't have half as anguish on here.

[Countydog]

ps - I know Nzonzi and Adam were Pulis's players but he had them trying to play a certain way. Teams are now doing to us what we used to them, closing us down and stopping us from playing.

[ChrisKamarasPerm]

I stopped reading once the capped one was mentioned.

[nicholasjalcock]

Just about sums up how I see the situation. MH needs to decide on his formation and his best starting XI and stick to it! Playing Walters as a lone striker at home?! The chap next to me said in the SH, W.B.A. are playing with three men at the back because there is no goal threat! No wonder they looked better in midfield! I think that we must wait for about another four matches before the jury comes back. But, worryingly the spirit, tenacity and work ethic has gone. In the SH I thought, though not his greatest fan, I wish Deano was here just for his sheer desire to win!

[mrmojorisin]

Maniche,

I agree with all you have said. I am not confident in Hughes and think during his last interview he looked a little lost. I believe there is enough rubbish around us to ensure we get 16th or 17th but January can't come soon enough for any of us.

Mojo.

[Squeekster]

Is that the Liverpool game where we hit the crossbar had two cleared off the line Minulet made a fine save from Walters in open play and had a penalty saved? We could of drew that game just as easily as we lost it!

[Deleted]

????

so the OP states "With a new Manager there will always be a change in style / ethos etc. Hughes has added one or two players to the squad but ultimately he has inherited Tony Pulis players" but then at the end says we can't blame anything that happens this season on Pulis at all and it's all down to Hughes???? bizarre logic and complete failure to look at the bigger picture.....what is the alternative? the new manager accepts the players can only play one way and just does that and nothing else??? that foolproof tactic that very nearly saw us in serious trouble at the end of the season???? only the people who tend to have agendas (and the "I told you so" brigade that decided Hughes would fail before we'd even kicked a ball) still view TP as someone who was "A safe pair of hands".....we stayed up solely because we were lucky enough to have to play 2 of the worst teams the Prem has ever seen a few weeks from the end of the season, that ISN'T a safe pair of hands at all, it's just someone who actually got the massive slices of luck that he consistently complained about NOT getting whenever he fucked up.

i really don't want to turn this into a TP v Hughes thread but the OP CANNOT acknowledge the lack of quality the new manager has been left with and then simply say "We can't blame the former manager for this, it's all down to the new guy now!"..it's bloody ludicrous, a misrepresentation of the facts of what happened last season and simply someone trying to smugly show how knowledgeable he is because he just knew what would happen back in our first game of the season.

notice how this thread didn't pop up after the West Ham game or the Man City game?????

Hughes has done a decent enough job in his first 8 games (yes, that's all it is..another 30 to go remember!!!). we now have a far higher percentage of possession in games, more territory and more shots on average per game than we've had in any of the seasons since we came up! (a distinct change to being bottom of the shots on target/shots in the game/possession/territory leagues that we have been for the last 2 years!!!) i'm pretty sure that all those things mean you are more likely to score goals and they at least show some attacking intent both home and away! the players in the attacking/creative roles are new to the team and new to each other (Ireland, Assaidi, Arnie..even N'Zonzi to some extent) so will need time to gel with each other and work each other's game out. at the moment, if we can get one or two goalscorers in then we will be more than ok this season!

this thread just appears to be nothing more than a very early attempt to deflect any possible responsibility being placed at the door of the former manager and a typical doom and gloomer, wrist slashing thread when we're not even in November!!!!

simple fact is that yes, Hughes WILL be judged on his results but anyone (and i mean anyone) that thinks that ANY manager could turn this team around (which HAD to be done, we stayed up last season simply thanks to luck of who we had to face at the end, NOT because of brilliant stewardship by the boss)straight away simply has no bloody clue how football teams work!!! if we go down this season i'll be blaming Hughes obviously but also the manager that left us in a position where ANY NEW MANAGER who came along was going to be effectively hung out to dry due to the absolute dross and shit he'd be left with after the previous administration of the team. a failure to accept this by anyone just proves their agenda as far as i'm concerned....i can;t be arsed with agendas personally, i simply see it realistically and factually and will therefore apportion blame to both equally.

p.s. this idea the OP makes that basically we've been found out and teams can play against us too easily......have you watched ANY Stoke game over the last 2 years???? virtually EVERY team we came up against were able to set up their strategy weeks before the game simply because they knew it was Stoke, we were the most predictable team in all 4 divisions, FFS i could probably have done a job against Stoke in my local Sunday league side; put 2 men on the wingers and on the rare occasions they get to the byline then Centre halfs can just sit back in the middle and mark up the big man, it's never going anywhere else!....give me strength!!!!!

[geoff321]

I will ask you the question I've asked others mick. If the squad is dross, how come we have played so well in at least 5 games this season?

[Deleted]

Oct 21, 2013 13:00:23 GMT geoff321 said:

I will ask you the question I've asked others mick. If the squad is dross, how come we have played so well in at least 5 games this season?

the way that squad is being played...simples! they are footballers who are now being asked to play football.not that hard to understand is it? even the captain has alluded to that simple fact

[geoff321]

You can't play good football with dross players. We played Man. City off the park, their team cost a fortune. You are one of a sizeable majority who keep perpetuating the myth that Stoke City have a dross squad, time to stop this rubbish in my opinion.

[jstoke7]

Oct 21, 2013 10:40:01 GMT Countydog said:

Tolerating a certain style to see the best players the country has to offer week in week out was a small price to pay. Having been watching Stoke since 1982 I was truly grateful for this given all the dross I had endured over the years. Quite simply like him or loathe him he was a safe pair of hands, 6 season in the Premier League is proof of that for me.

I'd rather be in the Championship/Any division than watching Pulis' dross every week, it managed to make me completely apathetic about my own club.

If all you care about is staying in the division then fair play to you, but football's about a lot more than that for me.

The main issue about Pulis as a manager is that he plays such a rigid, distinctive style that is completely outdated in the modern game. Pretty much ANYONE who takes over from him is going to have to completely overhaul the way the team plays. Evolution my arse.

[Deleted]

Oct 21, 2013 13:06:36 GMT geoff321 said:

You can't play good football with dross players. We played Man. City off the park, their team cost a fortune. You are one of a sizeable majority who keep perpetuating the myth that Stoke City have a dross squad, time to stop this rubbish in my opinion.

to be fair geoff when (apart from in the thread) have i ever labelled our players as dross? perhaps i worded it wrongly...previously they were players who were only allowed to play one particular way which made them appear to be completely quality defiicient

[Kjones9]

Oct 21, 2013 13:06:36 GMT geoff321 said:

You can't play good football with dross players. We played Man. City off the park, their team cost a fortune. You are one of a sizeable majority who keep perpetuating the myth that Stoke City have a dross squad, time to stop this rubbish in my opinion.

"We" is it now Geoffrey, you're not saying that you were a stoke fan afterall?

[geoff321]

O.K. mick, that's a valid view.

jonesy,

Sorry meant ' you '.

[Countydog]

Mick mills - although I don't agree , I liked reading your well written balanced response.