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Post by sufolkstokie on Oct 19, 2013 22:02:39 GMT
We lost it a couple of years ago really, except the odd game
,
But now we really are losing it. I have no idea what shape and what plan there was today. On paper our midfield should be much better than ever, but today it was 2.5 (0.5 for Ireland) who were liabilities. N'zonzi is everything that is poor about us right now. So much more talent than we have had before, but so lazy and plays with an air of it could be any team. He really does not care less
No pressing, no pace. It was time to move on, but Sparky it turning us into bland, formulaic team that West Brom used to be. Sideways, backwards, anything but forwards. And when they do, no bugger can be bothered to move
The players look lost and some should be Others look like they are playing statues for a bet
I heard some say we were much better at Fulham. No we were not. Fulham just happened to be a lot worse than the Baggies. It was the same ponderous rubbish
We are two players off a top ten team - no we are not, we are two players off not going down team
Transition - what transition? Playing sideways, backwards - same midfield playing statues, same isolated strikers, same Walters chasing a balloon, same lack of pace and same dull as dishwater to watch
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Post by march4 on Oct 19, 2013 22:05:01 GMT
We lost it a couple of years ago really, except the odd game , But now we really are losing it. I have no idea what shape and what plan there was today. On paper our midfield should be much better than ever, but today it was 2.5 (0.5 for Ireland) who were liabilities. N'zonzi is everything that is poor about us right now. So much more talent than we have had before, but so lazy and plays with an air of it could be any team. He really does not care less No pressing, no pace. It was time to move on, but Sparky it turning us into bland, formulaic team that West Brom used to be. Sideways, backwards, anything but forwards. And when they do, no bugger can be bothered to move The players look lost and some should be Others look like they are playing statues for a bet I heard some say we were much better at Fulham. No we were not. Fulham just happened to be a lot worse than the Baggies. It was the same ponderous rubbish We are two players off a top ten team - no we are not, we are two players off not going down team Transition - what transition? Playing sideways, backwards - same midfield playing statues, same isolated strikers, same Walters chasing a balloon, same lack of pace and same dull as dishwater to watch An excellent post from one of our best posters. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 19, 2013 22:07:15 GMT
On paper that midfield performed like I expected, it's shite on paper, shite on grass. I thought Ireland played quite well though and linked up well with Arnie. It's not his job to defend, that has to fall to someone else. The "someone else" today were two players I'd never rely on to defend on their own in midfield. The balance just wasn't there and it was obvious it wasn't going to be from the off.
I said we're four players off a top 10 side, I think we are. We sort out two positions and I think we become a much better side.
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Post by Sergeant Muttley on Oct 19, 2013 22:07:27 GMT
Top post mate and its there for everyone to see.
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Post by Olgrligm on Oct 19, 2013 22:13:04 GMT
I get a lot of what you're saying and I share all the same concerns. Towards the end of the game it was just a complete free for all in terms of player position and so on. My biggest concern was how complacent the midfield were. Ireland was ok - we didn't get the ball to him enough, but he was the only one who actually got the idea of moving to create space. N'Zonzi and Adam, however, were dreadful when we were defending. We expect that from Adam, because he's not a deep lying player who shields the defence. It doesn't make it right and he should never have played there. I'd have played Whelan or even Palacios in that role. N'Zonzi annoyed me the most. He has absolutely no excuse whatsoever for not doing the defensive basics, but he was just sauntering about the place while West Brom tore through the middle, not bothering to track runs or offer any kind of cover. He was usually ball watching five yards behind play. That's just not good enough.
What I would say at this stage is that there's still time to turn this around and we could come good yet. We need work in January though.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 19, 2013 22:20:20 GMT
N'Zonzi does a lot of that though and it's one of the main reasons I desperately wanted us to sign a defensive midfield in the summer. Someone who has discipline and can pass. N'Zonzi switches off way too easily, he showed it last year and with the way we played it cost us. With someone covering his arse I think it'd open his game up too. Someone of Amdy Faye's stature and Delap's footballing brain is what we need.
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Post by march4 on Oct 19, 2013 22:23:43 GMT
N'Zonzi does a lot of that though and it's one of the main reasons I desperately wanted us to sign a defensive midfield in the summer. Someone who has discipline and can pass. N'Zonzi switches off way too easily, he showed it last year and with the way we played it cost us. With someone covering his arse I think it'd open his game up too. Someone of Amdy Faye's stature and Delap's footballing brain is what we need. A 30 year old Rory would fit this team. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 19, 2013 22:29:48 GMT
N'Zonzi does a lot of that though and it's one of the main reasons I desperately wanted us to sign a defensive midfield in the summer. Someone who has discipline and can pass. N'Zonzi switches off way too easily, he showed it last year and with the way we played it cost us. With someone covering his arse I think it'd open his game up too. Someone of Amdy Faye's stature and Delap's footballing brain is what we need. A 30 year old Rory would fit this team. He probably would. We have no one in the middle who will cover for others when they've gone wandering and Rory did that brilliant. If we got that person who could then pass it to N'Zonzi or Ireland, I really think we'd have the beginnings of a cracking attacking side. It would free the full backs, it would free N'Zonzi and Ireland and actually allow them to be free and not what we saw today when we couldn't really afford it. And it would free the wingers up. Combine that with a striker that moves and for me the team is sorted to finish as we have done in the past few years. Ireland and Arnie's link up play impressed me today and it's something to build from. But behind and in front of them there was nothing. And I think it stems from missing players in those two key areas. I have been banging on about a striker and DM since about May though.  |
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Post by march4 on Oct 19, 2013 22:32:59 GMT
A 30 year old Rory would fit this team. He probably would. We have no one in the middle who will cover for others when they've gone wandering and Rory did that brilliant. If we got that person who could then pass it to N'Zonzi or Ireland, I really think we'd have the beginnings of a cracking attacking side. It would free the full backs, it would free N'Zonzi and Ireland and actually allow them to be free and not what we saw today when we couldn't really afford it. And it would free the wingers up. Combine that with a striker that moves and for me the team is sorted to finish as we have done in the past few years. Ireland and Arnie's link up play impressed me today and it's something to build from. But behind and in front of them there was nothing. And I think it stems from missing players in those two key areas. I have been banging on about a striker and DM since about May though. Indeed you have. I thought Anichebe gave Ryan a torrid time today. He would play well behind a main striker. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 19, 2013 22:35:32 GMT
He probably would. We have no one in the middle who will cover for others when they've gone wandering and Rory did that brilliant. If we got that person who could then pass it to N'Zonzi or Ireland, I really think we'd have the beginnings of a cracking attacking side. It would free the full backs, it would free N'Zonzi and Ireland and actually allow them to be free and not what we saw today when we couldn't really afford it. And it would free the wingers up. Combine that with a striker that moves and for me the team is sorted to finish as we have done in the past few years. Ireland and Arnie's link up play impressed me today and it's something to build from. But behind and in front of them there was nothing. And I think it stems from missing players in those two key areas. I have been banging on about a striker and DM since about May though. Indeed you have. I thought Anichebe gave Ryan a torrid time today. He would play well behind a main striker. I think it was a good battle that Ryan won more of than Anichebe tbh. But he was lucky when he got out muscled on the Seddon side in the second half and Webb gave a foul, it definitely wasn't. |
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Post by generationex on Oct 19, 2013 22:41:10 GMT
We got a point we probably didnt deserve .
Hughes is making clear he's not bothered about DNA.
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Post by stokemark on Oct 19, 2013 22:46:10 GMT
We got a point we probably didnt deserve . Hughes is making clear he's not bothered about DNA. The only 'DNA' that matters in this league is the one that starts and ends with a £ sign You've either got it or you haven't and we patently haven't |
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Post by fortressbritannia on Oct 19, 2013 23:04:38 GMT
We've lost our balls, players like Rory, Higgy, Fuller real characters who would die for our club if it meant getting 3 points and with the likes of Etherington and Whelan been pushed out, we are left with Huth and Shawcross as the only regular players who would lay down their lives for Stoke.
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Post by Davef on Oct 19, 2013 23:09:46 GMT
We've lost our balls, players like Rory, Higgy, Fuller real characters who would die for our club if it meant getting 3 points and with the likes of Etherington and Whelan been pushed out, we are left with Huth and Shawcross as the only regular players who would lay down their lives for Stoke. There's been some melodrama on the board today, but that just about tops the lot. "Die for our club", "Lay down their lives for Stoke".? Get a grip. |
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Post by werrington on Oct 19, 2013 23:11:58 GMT
Our DNA got up and fucked off 3 years ago
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Post by OldStokie on Oct 19, 2013 23:12:32 GMT
We lost it a couple of years ago really, except the odd game
I'd agree with you there. I think Hughes is trying to create a new DNA, but unfortunately he doesn't have the players to do it. We need a 'Sessignon' to boss the game and a striker worthy of the name. Although we've only scored 4 goals, we've only let in 7, and only four teams in the league can beat that. So he's got something right. It really is a team in transition, and it shows. There are some positives. The lad from L'pool was excellent today, and Arnie shows great touches at times. I'm not in the 'all doom and gloom camp',and neither am I in the 'everything will come right camp'. A point a game (which is what we're averaging despite being in transition) is not as bad as it could be. The January window will determine whether or not it all comes off, because one thing is for sure, the players we have at the moment are 38 pointers and no more.
OS.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 19, 2013 23:24:22 GMT
On paper that midfield performed like I expected, it's shite on paper, shite on grass. I thought Ireland played quite well though and linked up well with Arnie. It's not his job to defend, that has to fall to someone else. The "someone else" today were two players I'd never rely on to defend on their own in midfield. The balance just wasn't there and it was obvious it wasn't going to be from the off. I said we're four players off a top 10 side, I think we are. We sort out two positions and I think we become a much better side.
I couldn't agree with this more.
We're not that far away from being a solid top half side, maybe just three players away, although, we might still need a top full back too.
-------------------Begovic----------------------
Cameron-----Ryan------Huth-----Pieters
---------------N'Zonzi---HERE------------------
-----Arnie---------Ireland--------HERE
--------------------HERE-------------------------
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Post by march4 on Oct 19, 2013 23:26:58 GMT
On paper that midfield performed like I expected, it's shite on paper, shite on grass. I thought Ireland played quite well though and linked up well with Arnie. It's not his job to defend, that has to fall to someone else. The "someone else" today were two players I'd never rely on to defend on their own in midfield. The balance just wasn't there and it was obvious it wasn't going to be from the off. I said we're four players off a top 10 side, I think we are. We sort out two positions and I think we become a much better side.
I couldn't agree with this more.
We're not that far away from being a solid top half side, maybe just three players away, although, we might still need a top full back too.
-------------------Begovic----------------------
Cameron-----Ryan------Huth-----Pieters
---------------N'Zonzi---HERE------------------
-----Arnie---------Ireland--------HERE
--------------------HERE-------------------------
We have a top full back, Paul. His name is Marc Wilson. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 19, 2013 23:27:58 GMT
On paper that midfield performed like I expected, it's shite on paper, shite on grass. I thought Ireland played quite well though and linked up well with Arnie. It's not his job to defend, that has to fall to someone else. The "someone else" today were two players I'd never rely on to defend on their own in midfield. The balance just wasn't there and it was obvious it wasn't going to be from the off. I said we're four players off a top 10 side, I think we are. We sort out two positions and I think we become a much better side.
I couldn't agree with this more.
We're not that far away from being a solid top half side, maybe just three players away, although, we might still need a top full back too.
-------------------Begovic----------------------
Cameron-----Ryan------Huth-----Pieters
---------------N'Zonzi---HERE------------------
-----Arnie---------Ireland--------HERE
--------------------HERE-------------------------
That's exactly my thinking Paul. The fourth player I mention (as it happens) is a right back although Cameron has done well there this season, I just don't think he's good enough on the ball. |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Oct 19, 2013 23:32:20 GMT
Hughes has become totally befuddled in his search for goals. Pick Jones, Pick Crouch, pick a fucking forward, any fucking forward would be my advice. Honeymoon periods last but not picking a forward as a solution to not scoring goals is the fast trick to a lot more dickhead booing.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 19, 2013 23:33:27 GMT
Hughes has become totally befuddled in his search for goals. Pick Jones, Pick Crouch, pick a fucking forward, any fucking forward would be my advice. Honeymoon periods last but not picking a forward as a solution to not scoring goals is the fast trick to a lot more dickhead booing. He did pick a forward. He's just really shit. And if he's not a forward, what the fuck is he? Actually, what the fuck is he?  |
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Post by march4 on Oct 19, 2013 23:34:39 GMT
Hughes has become totally befuddled in his search for goals. Pick Jones, Pick Crouch, pick a fucking forward, any fucking forward would be my advice. Honeymoon periods last but not picking a forward as a solution to not scoring goals is the fast trick to a lot more dickhead booing. He did pick a forward. He's just really shit. And if he's not a forward, what the fuck is he? Actually, what the fuck is he? He ain't a lone striker, that is for sure. Who will we try next week; Sorro? |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 19, 2013 23:36:44 GMT
He did pick a forward. He's just really shit. And if he's not a forward, what the fuck is he? Actually, what the fuck is he? He ain't a lone striker, that is for sure. Who will we try next week; Sorro? I'm pretty sure he's nothing when it comes to Premier League football. |
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Post by march4 on Oct 19, 2013 23:51:43 GMT
He ain't a lone striker, that is for sure. Who will we try next week; Sorro? I'm pretty sure he's nothing when it comes to Premier League football. Night, night! |
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Post by JoeinOz on Oct 19, 2013 23:56:55 GMT
The notion of it being 'our' DNA is flawed. It implies those qualities are exclusive to Stoke and can conquer all. We may have had some resilience and all that but all decent teams have that. to win games you need more than them things.
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Post by prettything on Oct 20, 2013 0:08:31 GMT
We need steel in midfield. Whelen, Nzonzi, Palacious, or Wilson. But get two in.
We also need Crouch up top. A goal threat, who can read the game and link up the play.
But for god sake, play a striker!
Oh yeah, I want to see some fucking balls back in the team.
Apart for that, we are a team in transition and I'm more than willing to be patient. It will take time and I know that.
Just more of the above, please.
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Post by Kjones9 on Oct 20, 2013 1:42:42 GMT
Have we got to have this thread after every 1/0 points?
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Post by shep207 on Oct 20, 2013 2:48:10 GMT
Although we've only scored 4 goals, we've only let in 7, and only four teams in the league can beat that. So he's got something right. To be fair, we already had a great defence and he hasn't really done anything to drastically improve it. Didn't we have one of, if not the best defence in Europe for a considerable amount of time last season? It would have taken a monumental fuck up to ruin the defence he inherited so I think it's rather generous to use that as an argument for 'he's got something right' in all honesty. |
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Oct 20, 2013 3:17:06 GMT
Our DNA is something around £30m plus of players on our bench and yet a completely disjointed and uncreative squad.
Our DNA and our legacy come down to the same thing.
Smashing!
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Post by stokemanusa on Oct 20, 2013 3:33:54 GMT
There is no movement off the ball no runs and a single lone striker in the box when balls do make it in to the area. Shite performance, it was embarrassing and laughable that we were kept in our own half the last 15 mins and how wba didn't win that game is due to our class keeper begovic... because Huth and ryan got worked by sessegnon he really missed a few chances to take the points... Hughes has no idea how to use nzonzi and the midfield effectively... let alone using walters who imo needs shipping off in jan with crouch and jones.
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