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Post by ukcstokie on Oct 19, 2013 17:59:05 GMT
We simply don't have the players to play with one up top.
It just isn't working. We've tried KJ, Crouchy, Arnie and now SJW. KJ came nearest to make it work.
We can't change the personnel until next year - therefore we have to play the formation that makes the best use of the resources that we do have.
4-4-2 - with KJ and SJW up front. We know they work when played together. Play two wingers from Arnie, Pennant, Assidi and Matty. Then Nzonzi with either Ireland or Wilson.
We'd get better service into the box. We'd have more players in the box. We'd score more.
We can still keep with the more passing orientated style.
We can look to evolve when reinforcements/replacements are brought in in January.
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Post by adamsson on Oct 19, 2013 18:27:24 GMT
Arnie in the middle Walters on the bench
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Post by Bombus on Oct 19, 2013 18:33:38 GMT
Bring back Cameron Jerome  |
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Post by dieguito88 on Oct 19, 2013 18:37:54 GMT
Why don't try somenthing new upfront? Like Shea with kj ???? and Walters as a back up.
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Post by jeycov on Oct 19, 2013 20:24:37 GMT
We simply don't have the players to play with one up top. It just isn't working. We've tried KJ, Crouchy, Arnie and now SJW. KJ came nearest to make it work. We can't change the personnel until next year - therefore we have to play the formation that makes the best use of the resources that we do have. 4-4-2 - with KJ and SJW up front. We know they work when played together. Play two wingers from Arnie, Pennant, Assidi and Matty. Then Nzonzi with either Ireland or Wilson. We'd get better service into the box. We'd have more players in the box. We'd score more. We can still keep with the more passing orientated style. We can look to evolve when reinforcements/replacements are brought in in January. I agree we don't have the personnel to play with just one striker up front. Whoever has been selected for this role has been too isolated. Not sure which 2 front players I would select for this formation, possibly KJ and SJW - Crouch scored his wonder goal linking with Pennant - albeit 2 season ago now! I would like Arnautovic to be in our starting 11 January - yes - reinforcements are a priority imo |
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Post by stokemark on Oct 19, 2013 20:27:48 GMT
We simply don't have the players to play with one up top. It just isn't working. We've tried KJ, Crouchy, Arnie and now SJW. KJ came nearest to make it work. We can't change the personnel until next year - therefore we have to play the formation that makes the best use of the resources that we do have. 4-4-2 - with KJ and SJW up front. We know they work when played together. Play two wingers from Arnie, Pennant, Assidi and Matty. Then Nzonzi with either Ireland or Wilson. We'd get better service into the box. We'd have more players in the box. We'd score more. We can still keep with the more passing orientated style. We can look to evolve when reinforcements/replacements are brought in in January. I agree with this too My only concern is our lack of central midfielder capable of putting in a huge shift and able to break up play |
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Post by ukcstokie on Oct 19, 2013 20:37:48 GMT
There were a couple of telling comments from the Sky commentators today.
- on one Baggie attack they noted that there were 7 WBA players in and around our box.
- on several occasions they pointed out how few players we had in the WBA box while attacking. Usually just Walters with, sometimes, Ireland.
I think this underpins why we score so few goals.
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Post by ukcstokie on Oct 19, 2013 20:37:58 GMT
There were a couple of telling comments from the Sky commentators today.
- on one Baggie attack they noted that there were 7 WBA players in and around our box.
- on several occasions they pointed out how few players we had in the WBA box while attacking. Usually just Walters with, sometimes, Ireland.
I think this underpins why we score so few goals.
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Post by Ron on Oct 19, 2013 20:43:44 GMT
Couldn't agree with this any more. We have been poor ever since tp starting tinkering with Adam in "the hole". Back to basics is the only way to stop the rot. Only problem is that our choice of forwards is extremely depressing.
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Post by arniepieinthesky on Oct 19, 2013 20:51:24 GMT
100% Agree! I see no other way for us to get the goals...
I guess this will put us back to basics to an extent, if we go 2 in the middle of the park we need one 'holding' mid and one box to box, a runner so to speak. So for me, I can only see Whelan and Nzonzi doing this job for us...for now. So thats bye to Adam and Ireland.
Again this also requires 2 genuine wingers, players that are going to get down the flanks and get the balls in the box....I can only see JP and Ethers doing this??? Not exactly in their prime, but needs must.
And regardless of what you may think of Walters or Jones, as a pairing....they were perhaps the best we have had since promotion.
I really don't want us to step back, but for now I think its a must.
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Post by mattface on Oct 19, 2013 21:30:23 GMT
Surely we have to see something like this next week
Bego
Cameron - Ryan - Huth - Pieters
Pennant - Ireland - Whelan / Wilson Assiadi
Arnie - Crouch / KJ
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Post by Miles Offside on Oct 19, 2013 21:31:10 GMT
I'd definitely go with 4-4-2.
I'd have Pennant (when fit) on the right and Assaidi on the left.
Assaidi could've been far more effective today if he didn't start from such deep positions.
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Post by Miles Offside on Oct 19, 2013 21:33:04 GMT
Surely we have to see something like this next week Bego Cameron - Ryan - Huth - Pieters Pennant - Ireland - Whelan / Wilson Assiadi Arnie - Crouch / KJ Put Nzonzi in for Whelan or Wilson and I'd go with that line up too. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2013 21:35:28 GMT
Today we had Walters, bin laden, arnie, Adam, Ireland! That's 5 attacking players! And not once did I feel we were going score! I don't see how we can go 4-4-2 as we dint have anyone to partner nzonzi. So I've no idea what to do, perhaps a 3-5-2 formation
Bego
Huth Ryan peters
Arnie Cameron zonzi Wilson ethers
Jones Walters
That's just a idea but I really don't know
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2013 21:40:00 GMT
Why people are still putting Wilson in midfield i do not know, blimey!
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Post by expectedtoulouse on Oct 19, 2013 23:29:41 GMT
We need to do something, and 4-5-1 isnt the answer. As previously stated, we need more bodies up in the box but we also need way more crosses into the box. The 2 players that we do have who will put balls into the box are Pennant and Assaidi. Etherington does but we know he's more or less a spent force.
Jones and Arnautovic are the answer. Arnautovic needs to play very close to Jones through the middle and feed off his knock downs. Almost like the re-creation of the Sidibe/Fuller partnership.
Central midfield is a problem too. I think Ireland has to play and LMH seems to believe in him massively. That leaves us with one spot to choose a more defensive midfielder. I like Wilson but he can get caught and although he gives us presence in the middle, I'd be more inclined to go with Whelan. We know he's not the best out of our centre mids but I think we need his tenacity back in the team. Sit him infront of the back 4 with the job of winning the ball and laying it off and I think we'd see a lot better Glenn than we did last season.
N'Zonzi just pisses me off. He has great ability but he doesn't use it. Far too often he plays short balls backwards and sideways and cloggs up the midfield. If he does get forward, his decision making is very poor. He can put good balls in from deep but he's not direct enough. He needs a kick up the arse and dropping.
Adam is just a liability and for all the good stuff he produces, he makes three times as many fuck ups. Not acceptable in the predicament we're in.
One of the problems with us today was that there was nobody who was willing to take a bit of a risk and play a more direct ball or get themselves forward or on the end of things. We need to be pushing the wingers forward, getting the ball to them quickly and getting balls into the box. Until we do this then we're simply not going to score.
Our game plan needs to be simple. Moving the ball quickly through the pitch to the wingers to get balls in towards Jones and Arnautovic.
Begovic
Cameron
Shawcross
Huth
Pieters
Pennant
Whelan
Ireland
Assaidi
Jones
Arnautovic
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Post by ukcstokie on Oct 20, 2013 0:04:44 GMT
I think we all have our views on the individuals to play, whether it be Arnie or JW with KJ up front, or Nzonzi, Wilson, Ireland or whoever in midfield.
I am though convinced that 4-4-2 is the way to go in the short term to get us some results to keep us away from the bottom three.
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Post by stokemanusa on Oct 20, 2013 3:42:10 GMT
Stoke's midfield is afraid to get in the box, afraid to shoot and afraid to go at players and completely unwilling to make runs forward in the center or even move off the ball... Arsenal today showed it to a master class even though I hate the bastards they really have a inform midfield with pace and strikers who can score goals... Were seriously the worst team in the prem from the midfield forward. Even sunderland has a better team but as a whole they are so demoralized in the dressing room it's making us look mediocre! If we don't make a few major signings or bring in more players It's not going to be pretty.
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Post by Stafford-Stokie on Oct 20, 2013 8:30:00 GMT
We simply don't have the players to play with one up top. It just isn't working. We've tried KJ, Crouchy, Arnie and now SJW. KJ came nearest to make it work. We can't change the personnel until next year - therefore we have to play the formation that makes the best use of the resources that we do have. 4-4-2 - with KJ and SJW up front. We know they work when played together. Play two wingers from Arnie, Pennant, Assidi and Matty. Then Nzonzi with either Ireland or Wilson. We'd get better service into the box. We'd have more players in the box. We'd score more. We can still keep with the more passing orientated style. We can look to evolve when reinforcements/replacements are brought in in January. Been saying this for weeks. The system doesn't work with the players we have. |
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Oct 20, 2013 8:59:47 GMT
The biggest problem is that no system works with the wank strikers we have.
Last season proved that.
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Post by scfcwebby on Oct 20, 2013 9:07:32 GMT
I think I would give Alabi A go, what have we got to lose?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2013 9:17:34 GMT
Do we have the players to play 4-4-2?
How many of our midfielders can play in one? Nzonzi and...?
Play two wingers and an attacking CM and we'll be overrun even more than we are currently.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Oct 20, 2013 9:20:00 GMT
Do we have the players to play 4-4-2? How many of our midfielders can play in one? Nzonzi and...? Play two wingers and an attacking CM and we'll be overrun even more than we are currently. Agreed, Rob. We'd just be back to the same problems as the previous two seasons. We need a motivated, mobile and goal hungry forward. |
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Oct 20, 2013 9:33:18 GMT
Do we have the players to play 4-4-2? How many of our midfielders can play in one? Nzonzi and...? Play two wingers and an attacking CM and we'll be overrun even more than we are currently. That's my worry about reverting to 4 4 2. But 4 5 1 at home, against mid-table opposition, is just shit (especially when that 1 is Walters) |
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Post by ukcstokie on Oct 20, 2013 10:26:06 GMT
Do we have the players to play 4-4-2? How many of our midfielders can play in one? Nzonzi and...? Play two wingers and an attacking CM and we'll be overrun even more than we are currently. I think an attacking CM in that formation is an option - on winnable home games and when chasing a game. We do have the resources to play OK DMs in the 4-4-2. With Nzonzi, Whelan, Wilson, WP, Cameron being the options. At this point I think we need to look for consolidation rather than trying to evolve too much. That will come when we can change some of the personnel. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2013 10:35:55 GMT
I think even in 'winnable games' you can't play that kind of 4-4-2 with an attacking CM - you can't take the opposition for granted.
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Post by ukcstokie on Oct 20, 2013 10:57:13 GMT
I think even in 'winnable games' you can't play that kind of 4-4-2 with an attacking CM - you can't take the opposition for granted. We did yesterday with 2 AM and one DM (and just about got away with it). |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2013 11:08:03 GMT
I think even in 'winnable games' you can't play that kind of 4-4-2 with an attacking CM - you can't take the opposition for granted. We did yesterday with 2 AM and one DM (and just about got away with it). Which if anything is a considerable argument against doing so again. Also, Adam was deep, he wasn't really playing as an attacking midfielder as such. |
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Post by robwahlmann on Oct 20, 2013 11:08:17 GMT
Think Palacios has done well when given a chance this season. Is it time for him to give our midfield more bite? I think he overall will be much better than Adam defensively, but he is also a good ball player. Worth a try?
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