Were you at Barnsley in 1989?

[Lakeland Potter]

If so you may be able to assist the campaign for Justice over Hillsborough.

Can you help?

Edit: I can't see why the Vale get a mention in the headline. Silly Sentinel!

Read the article first - but if you can help contact details are: [phone] or email [e-mail]

[huuuuuth]

I was there.

We were in the crush outside after the coaches arrived late. There mustn't have been any more than 2 turnstiles open. It was ridiculous

Memory is a bit sketchy these days, but I remember the huge sense of panic and screaming at the police to do something.

The vast majority of us ended up going in through the big exit gates

[withnall]

I was there, along with my missus and daughter.

My recollection was that there was only one turnstile open for us, and the pressure of those waiting to get in concerned me enough to use myself as a shield to try and protect the little un.

The sheer weight of people made it impossible to move, and it got worse after the kick off with more of us still trying to get in.

When the gates were opened, it was like a stampede, and i was grabbed, along with the missus and kid by a male copper who pulled us to one side.

Whoever the copper was, he was a decent bloke, and actually gave the little un his packed lunch in a bag.

I think that was the last game i took her to.

[Lakeland Potter]

That was at a time when I got to very few games as I was living and working in Plymouth. I did at one point think of going to that game but (as often happened) my shifts got changed as did my days off, and I was unable to go. Once I heard what had happened I was happy to have missed it.

[werrington]

I was there just as I was at Rotherham in 1990 and just as I was at Hillsbrough in 1984 with Newcastle United ( my brother ) when I was in that same Leppjngs Lane terrace and gasping for breath as 15k Newcadtle fans were penned into that concourse outside after the game

The South Yorkshire police lived by the sword on those three occasions I was there never mind other clubs experiences

Let's see them before the courts

[lawrieleslie]

Oct 12, 2013 6:47:32 GMT werrington said:

I was there just as I was at Rotherham in 1990 and just as I was at Hillsbrough in 1984 with Newcastle United ( my brother ) when I was in that same Leppjngs Lane terrace and gasping for breath as 15k Newcadtle fans were penned into that concourse outside after the game

The South Yorkshire police lived by the sword on those three occasions I was there never mind other clubs experiences

Let's see them before the courts

Don't hold your breath mate. The new inquest isn't until next year. The inquest is not allowed to apportion blame they can only determine who died, when and how. The why question can only be answered in a criminal court. So when the inquest brings an unlawful killing verdict, which it no doubt will, the CPS then step in to determine wether their is a case to answer and blame can be apportioned. Because the new inquest will look at all contributing agencies to the tragedy including police, FA, Sheffield Wednesday and Sheffield council the criminal court proceedings will be very drawn out. The wheels of justice grind very slowly and this is going to take many years to complete.

[werrington]

Oct 12, 2013 7:23:29 GMT lawrieleslie said:

Oct 12, 2013 6:47:32 GMT werrington said:

I was there just as I was at Rotherham in 1990 and just as I was at Hillsbrough in 1984 with Newcastle United ( my brother ) when I was in that same Leppjngs Lane terrace and gasping for breath as 15k Newcadtle fans were penned into that concourse outside after the game

The South Yorkshire police lived by the sword on those three occasions I was there never mind other clubs experiences

Let's see them before the courts

Don't hold your breath mate. The new inquest isn't until next year. The inquest is not allowed to apportion blame they can only determine who died, when and how. The why question can only be answered in a criminal court. So when the inquest brings an unlawful killing verdict, which it no doubt will, the CPS then step in to determine wether their is a case to answer and blame can be apportioned. Because the new inquest will look at all contributing agencies to the tragedy including police, FA, Sheffield Wednesday and Sheffield council the criminal court proceedings will be very drawn out. The wheels of justice grind very slowly and this is going to take many years to complete.

Cheers for that mate I wasn't aware that was the process

Their time will come of that there should be no doubts

[lordherefordsknob]

Yes was there, just got in before they let the gates open, it was a good job the away end was so big when we got in or a lot of people would of been in trouble that day.

[Deleted]

I was there. In a rush now so will read more later.

[lawrieleslie]

Oct 12, 2013 7:26:32 GMT werrington said:

Oct 12, 2013 7:23:29 GMT lawrieleslie said:

Don't hold your breath mate. The new inquest isn't until next year. The inquest is not allowed to apportion blame they can only determine who died, when and how. The why question can only be answered in a criminal court. So when the inquest brings an unlawful killing verdict, which it no doubt will, the CPS then step in to determine wether their is a case to answer and blame can be apportioned. Because the new inquest will look at all contributing agencies to the tragedy including police, FA, Sheffield Wednesday and Sheffield council the criminal court proceedings will be very drawn out. The wheels of justice grind very slowly and this is going to take many years to complete.

Cheers for that mate I wasn't aware that was the process

Their time will come of that there should be no doubts

Yes it will. However the day of the tragedy will be a separate investigation and court cases from the falsifying and changing of police statements after the event. I doubt the inquest will have the jurisdiction to consider these events after the tragedy.

[Orbs]

I was there too - there were so many of us outside the turnstiles that they just opened them up and we got in for free. There was no problem once inside (as far as I remember) but certainly a scary experience. Obviously a South Yorkshire Police policy to open turnstiles when there are too many fans outside. Unfortunately we all know the consequences of this policy especially when (my understanding is) that only the central turnstiles were opened at the Leppings Lane End.

[The Stubborn Optimist]

I was there that night. Remember the mad crush to get in, I seem to remember they eventually just opened the big exit gates and we all just pored in rather than going through the turnstiles.

[Mcdanger]

Yea i was there. Got there relatively early, which was a first for the 'trusty' old Bassets coach and mad Steve the driver. Seem to remember all the official Bostocks coaches arriving late, we were already inside the ground and there was plenty of room at the front of the massive open terrace and the tannoy announcer was asking Stoke fans inside the ground to move to the front to let our fellow fans in at the back....24 years ago....jaysus...

[riproaring]

Rotherham on the Easter Monday was horrific, I remember being trapped, the old bill at the end of the entry stopping everyone leaving while all the stoke fans poured out of the ground into a high wall walled entry with nowhere to go still angry when I think about it. That was caging or kettling or whatever term they use

[Deleted]

We drove up from London and got stuck in M1 roadworks so only had time for pie and chips and a couple of swift ones in a local hostelry. Got down to the ground and it was carnage. We were right at the front, I mean one person back from the turnstiles, when they closed the turnstile ! It was starting to get a bit scary as more and more Stokies arrived, I don't think a single turnstile was open now. We would have kicked the doors in but no one could move enough to do anything.

When the gates were opened it was chaos, a mad stampede to get in for free. I jumped onto a wall just on the left of the gate and my mate was swept by the crowd into the ground. Was all over pretty quickly but if anyone had fallen it would have been nasty.

I worked in football at the time and have mentioned this a few times over the years, happy to help if I can.

[kev1060]

The situation at Barnsley in 1989 could so easily have been avoided had the Police and/or Barnsley FC had the common sense to put the kick off back by 15 minutes.

A night replay with a 7.45 pm kick off was always going to be pushing it for the Stoke Fans to all arrive before kick off. Barnsley was a notoriously difficult ground to get to if you were getting close to kick off time. You crawl for about 2 miles once you get off the M1, then have to go past the turning for the ground and double-back on yourself so that you can turn left up an incline and then drop down onto that grassy car park which sloped down to the ground.It took an age for the cars and coaches to park up.

As I recall, the coaches arrived en bloc at about 7.40 pm and it was always an accident waiting to heppen as we ran off the coaches to get into the ground as you could hear the roar as the players were coming out onto the pitch just as we arrived. There were only a maximum of about 3 turnstiles at the away end, & as others have said, only 2 were open. Also in them days, (and I cannot be certain of this), cup replays were held only a matter of days after the Saturday game, and with about 5-6000 stokies turning up, it was cash on turnstyle to get in, causing even more delays.

It is only having read this article that I now realise how close we all were to a major disaster that night. At the time, it was a pretty common occurence. (I recall the Watford cup match around 1980 and the after match crush there. That was equally as scary.)

[lawrieleslie]

As a youngster me and my Vale fan mate got caught up in a near lethal crush at Vale Park for an FA Cup 4th round replay vs Liverpool. We had arrived at Hamil End quite early because there had been no time for tickets as it was only the week after the draw at Anfield.We stood near the front slightly to the left of the goal and about 15 minutes before kick off, as the ground was already packed to the rafters, the Hamil End exit gate was breeched with the resulting in rush of 100s of more fans. I was only 10 at the time but remember being picked up by a copper as we were pushed further and further forward. We ended up on the pitch along with 100s of others. This undoubtedly averted a catastrophe, because if there had been caged pens it would have been carnage on a Hillsborough scale I have no doubt. This is why I stand by my opinion that the caged terraces at Hillsborough contributed to the tragedy. Wonder if the Justice for Hillsborough will ask me for a statement? I suppose that depends wether they are taking the FA and Government of the time to task for allowing the hideous caging as a cheap and crude means of crowd control in order to get English clubs re-instated into Europe following the Heysel Stadium riot.

[chellpotter]

This was the replay after coming back from 3:1 down with ten minutes go to draw 3:3 at the Vic. Was there a hold up on the motorway or roads going in that made us all late. I remember me, my dad and my brother travelling in car and we had to abandon the car down one of the streets which was triple parked if I can remember right, as the match was kicking off or nearly kicking off. We had all queued through the one turnstile and just as we had paid to get in, we were at the top of the terraces, if I remember right you walked up to the top of the stand coming in from the back. Just as we were it the top hundreds of stoke fans poured up the steps causing a crush in the terraces as the main gates had been opened and they all came in for free. It was quite a scary time, we were the luckier ones as we were at the top of the terraces but those lower down felt the full surge of the incoming fans.

I also remember crushes at Liverpool away in the cup when a wall collapsed and they would not let us into an empty part of the stand, we had to watch the match in the exit area.

Then at the Moss Rose against Chester in the cup(not in the cup away match 1991-1992 season) I think Mickey T played that game. The police would not let us into the other empty stand until there was a lot of protesting and they relented.

[Mcdanger]

Chell..the moss rose i remember...it was a league game wen Chester had no ground of there own so were sharing with macc.. we had hundreds of ticketless fans outside who decided to smash there way into the ground...no crush, just wanted see the boys...happy days...

[chellpotter]

Mcdanger I certainly got stuck in a crush near the butty hut which led to several stokies climbing up onto it's roof and jumping across into the other stand, one thing I can remember was someone up the floodlight not sure if it was TJ, was it a draw in the end I can't quite remember?

[lordherefordsknob]

For that Chester game at macc there was loads of forged tickets floating around.

[finnthedude]

I was there with a mate. Arrived near kick off on one of the official buses and ran down to the turnstiles so as not to miss the start. Lots of fans were running so as not to miss the start. I actually paid to get in at one of the turnstiles and even then the game had already kicked off. We got in and were near the front and were quickly pushed forward - I'm assuming this was as the gates were opened and loads of fans rushed in.

[werrington]

Barnsley, Rotherham and Hillsbrough ......there is a common denominator

South Yorkshire Police

[johnsmithsupper]

I'm afraid add Huddersfield on grand national day one year (someone please enlighten me), we were locked in a pen afterwards between two huge metal gates crushed in.

I was terrified, my dad who was with me who just happened to be an inspector in Staffordshire police with responsibility for visitors at the Vic was so incensed that when we were let out he demanded to know the name of the commanding officer at the ground from the local force and reported him to his own superiors in staffs police.

imagine me as a teenager with your dad having stand up row with another officer, embarrassment wasn't the word at the time, but now I look back on it with immense pride how he stood up for fellow stokies because visitors to stoke city would have never been treated like that even in the dark days of hooliganism.

I'm sure he almost got arrested he was causing such a fuss at first they didn't believe he was a policeman and I know he was so shocked as to how we were all treated.

I was also at Barnsley but we were well away from all that somewhere up the back behind the goal I think. Lost 2-1 I'm sure bamber scored for stoke and went back to Sheffield to stay with an old school mate in his uni digs.

[werrington]

Oct 13, 2013 0:47:31 GMT johnsmithsupper said:

I'm afraid add Huddersfield on grand national day one year (someone please enlighten me), we were locked in a pen afterwards between two huge metal gates crushed in.

I was terrified, my dad who was with me who just happened to be an inspector in Staffordshire police with responsibility for visitors at the Vic was so incensed that when we were let out he demanded to know the name of the commanding officer at the ground from the local force and reported him to his own superiors in staffs police.

imagine me as a teenager with your dad having stand up row with another officer, embarrassment wasn't the word at the time, but now I look back on it with immense pride how he stood up for fellow stokies because visitors to stoke city would have never been treated like that even in the dark days of hooliganism.

I'm sure he almost got arrested he was causing such a fuss at first they didn't believe he was a policeman and I know he was so shocked as to how we were all treated.

I was also at Barnsley but we were well away from all that somewhere up the back behind the goal I think. Lost 2-1 I'm sure bamber scored for stoke and went back to Sheffield to stay with an old school mate in his uni digs.

Bizarrely mate I'm sure West Tip won the national that day as I backed it.....1986 would that be ? ( smiley )

Back on track though

[Deleted]

Oct 12, 2013 22:07:48 GMT lordherefordsknob said:

For that Chester game at macc there was loads of forged tickets floating around.

You're not wrong there.
Me and about six mates all had forged tickets for that game.
My mate bought a ticket and copied it at work in the office as the tickets were literally a piece of coloured paper with black print on.

[stokeoptimist]

I was there and I remember it well the only time I ever got into a football match for free. I have always been surprised that the Barnsley game was never mentioned in relation to the Hillsborough disaster. Their decision that day avoided a crush outside and may have seemed to them to be the right one, having done it once did it sway their judgement at Sheffield. I may be wrong but I recall there was a problem with fans getting in to the first leg due to a lack of change. On the day of the replay they had been on the radio calling for Stoke fans not to worry as there wouldn't be a repeat at Barnsley. So many Stokies took them up on it they couldn't cope. The roads were so blocked around the ground that we actually abandoned the car at first then ran back to it as traffic started moving again. Missed the first goal, crush outside, the gate opened a huge roar and we were in. Getting inside there seemed plenty of room, I remember the Tannoy asking Stoke fans to move forward as their colleagues outside couldn't get in. This brought up a huge chorus of Stokies here, Stokies there etc.

[davejohnno1]

Oct 12, 2013 6:47:32 GMT werrington said:

I was there just as I was at Rotherham in 1990 and just as I was at Hillsbrough in 1984 with Newcastle United ( my brother ) when I was in that same Leppjngs Lane terrace and gasping for breath as 15k Newcadtle fans were penned into that concourse outside after the game

The South Yorkshire police lived by the sword on those three occasions I was there never mind other clubs experiences

Let's see them before the courts

I was at the Barnsley and Rotherham games as well and the Barnsley game in particular was a frightening experience for a young 12-13 year old lad. Rotherham, I was a bit older so the fact that I was so crushed that my feet weren't actually on the floor was, I found, quite funny and all part of the day.

Talking of Leppings Lane though, I was at the Sheff Wed v Manure game earlier that same season (blame my old man for that) and the crush on that terrace was ridiculous as the tannoy announcer just kept sending a message for Manure fans to move forward to allow more of their fans into the stadium.

I was in the central section, sat on the bar at the front, as was normal for young kids, and distinctly remember my dad working his way down to the front to get me. A police officer or steward (I forget now) actually opened the gate in the fence for me so that we could move to a less occupied section to our right. That was frightening as well for a young kid. My dad said he would never take me to Sheff Wed again after that, which didn't really bother me, because I wanted to be watching Stoke with my step dad, cousin and uncle rather than Manure with my dad.

[lordb]

I was there.

Not the 1st time seen a crush nor the last (Tranmere away,post Hillsborough) but certainly the worst (16 at the time).

Most police forces would have ordered a delayed K.O - standard practice reaaly,obviosly not in S.Yorkshire.
Unlike Hillsborough Oakwell although having a fence at the front (as did all grounds) there we're no pens.
As such those already on the terrace could simply move along.

cracking game mind but that's not really the point I suppose.

[kevkj]

I was at both games,Barnsley we travelled by car and were in the ground early so id did not affect us.
Rotherham was absolutely frightening as were half way up the alley when the horses stopped at the top and unbeknowing stokies piled out into the alley.