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Post by davejohnno1 on Oct 6, 2013 17:19:35 GMT
I am worried as the next Stokie about our apparent inability to score goals but Norwich aside, we are creating chances, despite some of the shit that I've been reading on here today.
Yesterday we played well and we should have won. We were in total control of the game and created more than enough situations to have won the game. We certainly shouldn't have lost it.
We've had 2 cleared off the line, we should have had 2 penalties, both of which were absolutely blatant, Huth should have scored an easy header from the corner, Ireland flashed a volley millimetres wide and we had a perfectly good goal disallowed. Arnie was not offside and the goal should have stood.
Add into that several other great positions we got into and totally wasted. Ireland twice in the first half failed to play a pass that would have put Arnie and then Walters through on goal. Etherington criminally put one in the stand when unopposed in a great position and Walters was clean through on goal on the corner of the box and instead of shooting took the most inexplicably worst touch imaginable for a professional footballer.
In the cold light of day we did more than enough to win an away game and their goal came courtesy of an absolute fluke deflection from a nothing shot. None of Arnie's shots deflected right into our path...not that anybody other than Arnie would have been able to take the chance had it fallen to them from one of his shots.
If you then look back at other games, we've missed golden opportunities to win or get points from other games. See WBA's goal today. That header they scored was way more difficult to take than both of Walters chances v Man City.
I think this year will be a struggle in some respects but if we can maintain the level of performance shown in 5 and a half of our 7 games so far, we will be absolutely fine.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2013 17:31:10 GMT
You're right in everything you say Dave but this season shouldn't have been the struggle it will end up being because Hughes should have been backed in the market more than he has done. There is simply no explanation as to why he hasn't and no excuse for it either.
In my eyes he has been totally shafted. He deserves more.
I dread to think where we'd be had we had a proper striker on our books, rather than the second rate copies that are masquerading as them right now.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Oct 6, 2013 17:41:18 GMT
The only thing I would say to that onlooker, is are we close to our wage ceiling in terms of the new Financial Fair Play rules that have come into force this season?
I don't know if we are but it seems as though we were trying desperately to offload some of our big wage earning flops and failed to do so. Maybe this is why we couldn't/didn't sign a striker as Hughes desperately wanted to.
Time will tell come January I expect but the fact that no-one wanted any of our main line strikers is clearly the reason Jerome went out on loan so late in the day. Jerome going out on loan freed up the wages needed to bring in Arnatovic.
All speculation on my part here but it does seem about right.
It is going to take at least 2 seasons at least to recover from the money that was wasted post FA Cup Final and that is assuming that during that time we can maintain our Premier League status. I've said that for 15-18 months now and only now are the chickens coming home to roost from that wasted expenditure.
Clubs like us only get one opportunity to spend money like that and it has to be done wisely. Norwich, Southampton and Swansea have done similar this season and if their spending turns out to be as bad as ours was, they will find themselves in the same position. Villa and Sunderland are both in the same situation having spent countless millions and are now paying the price. Villa might have bailed themselves out of their mess by the bargain arrival of Benteke when they ultimately cash in on him.
Begovic, should Man City truly be interested in him, could turn out to be our financial saviour.
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Post by iglugluk on Oct 6, 2013 17:43:59 GMT
You're right in everything you say Dave but this season shouldn't have been the struggle it will end up being because Hughes should have been backed in the market more than he has done. There is simply no explanation as to why he hasn't and no excuse for it either. In my eyes he has been totally shafted. He deserves more. I dread to think where we'd be had we had a proper striker on our books, rather than the second rate copies that are masquerading as them right now. i was making this point yesterday but according to March4 the Coates family have made plenty of money available for transfers it's just that LMH chose not to spend it.............well that's what he said anyway  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2013 17:48:19 GMT
The only thing I would say to that onlooker, is are we close to our wage ceiling in terms of the new Financial Fair Play rules that have come into force this season? I don't know if we are but it seems as though we were trying desperately to offload some of our big wage earning flops and failed to do so. Maybe this is why we couldn't/didn't sign a striker as Hughes desperately wanted to. Time will tell come January I expect but the fact that no-one wanted any of our main line strikers is clearly the reason Jerome went out on loan so late in the day. Jerome going out on loan freed up the wages needed to bring in Arnatovic. All speculation on my part here but it does seem about right. It is going to take at least 2 seasons at least to recover from the money that was wasted post FA Cup Final and that is assuming that during that time we can maintain our Premier League status. I've said that for 15-18 months now and only now are the chickens coming home to roost from that wasted expenditure. Clubs like us only get one opportunity to spend money like that and it has to be done wisely. Norwich, Southampton and Swansea have done similar this season and if their spending turns out to be as bad as ours was, they will find themselves in the same position. Villa and Sunderland are both in the same situation having spent countless millions and are now paying the price. Villa might have bailed themselves out of their mess by the bargain arrival of Benteke when they ultimately cash in on him. Begovic, should Man City truly be interested in him, could turn out to be our financial saviour. There could be a lot of truth in that to be fair. There also might not and what is in the heads of everyone, is what Denise Coates said about self sufficiency and that ultimately the taps will be turned off and the club will need to fund itself. It's a bit difficult to do that with only 16k odd Season ticket holders, no full houses on a capacity of 28.5K with average Season Ticket prices. Selling Begovic would be absolute madness until the summer at least. |
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Post by Gods on Oct 6, 2013 17:53:34 GMT
How close was Ireland's volley? You couldn't tell from where we were but I was waiting for the net to bulge. It was a lovely move too, was expecting it to appear on MOTD, surely it was the best attacking moment of the match from either side  |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Oct 6, 2013 17:54:11 GMT
I agree on Begovic mate but at least if it is Man City interested, we can add another 10m on top of his price just because they would pay it.
As for the money being there, I have said all summer that the money is there for transfer fees. Transfer fees aren't the problem. It is wages under the new rules.
As such, if we had been able to clear out some of the unwanted high wage earners, losing their wages in the process, Hughes might have been able to bring in a Diouf, Defoe or whoever else may have been on his radar.
I don't know. It is all speculation on my part given what we have seen but I wouldn't be at all surprised if that was the case.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Oct 6, 2013 17:56:17 GMT
How close was Ireland's volley? You couldn't tell from where we were but I was waiting for the net to bulge. It was a lovely move too, was expecting it to appear on MOTD, surely it was the best attacking moment of the match from either side I am led to believe that they didn't show that or the disallowed goal on MOTD. It shouldn't surprise anyone. Their editing of games is a complete joke. |
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Post by kevkj on Oct 6, 2013 18:06:41 GMT
Im not making excuses but boy we get some shocking crucial decisions go against us.Two penalty appeals yesterday.last week kenwyne pulled over for a blatant pen,Man City at home a handball blatant pen.
Now all these incidents have been talked about on MOTD and Sunday supplement and all agree that they were penaltys.These could have put 6-7 more points on our tally.
Very interesting comment from Chamack when asked by Holloway why he went down for a penalty instead of staying on his feet and shooting .He said and i quote,"if i was playing for Arsenal i would have got a penalty 100%".
Yesterday City got a dodgy pen , whilst Everton had much better claims turned down.
So it seems the saying ,IT LEVELS ITSELF OUT is bollux ,what it means is Man U ,Arsenal ,Man City etc will get preferential treatment.
I think after 5 years ive had enough of the prem,bring back the all exciting,no cheating championship.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Oct 6, 2013 21:39:56 GMT
We were in total control of the game and created more than enough situations to have won the game. Yeah, situations coming out of our ears dave, full on 'how did he miss that' moments though are virtually zero I'm afraid. |
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Post by jbstokie on Oct 6, 2013 21:49:08 GMT
We were in total control of the game and created more than enough situations to have won the game. Yeah, situations coming out of our ears dave, full on 'how did he miss that' moments though are virtually zero I'm afraid. Huth's headers? I was also shouting "how did he miss that" all game at the ref. |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Oct 6, 2013 21:53:37 GMT
Yeah, situations coming out of our ears dave, full on 'how did he miss that' moments though are virtually zero I'm afraid. Huth's headers? I was also shouting "how did he miss that" all game at the ref. Still wouldn't call them sitters or guilt edged myself. Huth has been missing efforts like that for 18 months, Everton and West Ham last season spring to mind, Ryan hasn't really been getting near them to miss them during the same period. Agree on the ref though  |
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Post by swampySCFC on Oct 6, 2013 21:55:24 GMT
I dread us getting a Pen
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Post by northantsash on Oct 6, 2013 22:00:52 GMT
controlling games and creating a lot of chances - just nobody capable of finishing them off. im a big fan of matty etherington, but I think he has lost the yard of pace of a few years ago, i'd have assaidi on from the start and pennant on the other side in place of walters. things will turn around, im confident of that and I think despite our lack of offensive options that somebody is going to be on the end of a 2 or 3 goal defeat by stoke, hopefully the baggies can come forward |
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Oct 7, 2013 6:13:23 GMT
You sum up our situation really well , biggest problem is the quality of the final ball and the taking of chances that do come , sadly they are the most difficult things to find solutions to
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Post by blakngreen on Oct 7, 2013 6:28:14 GMT
You're right in everything you say Dave but this season shouldn't have been the struggle it will end up being because Hughes should have been backed in the market more than he has done. There is simply no explanation as to why he hasn't and no excuse for it either. In my eyes he has been totally shafted. He deserves more. I dread to think where we'd be had we had a proper striker on our books, rather than the second rate copies that are masquerading as them right now. i was making this point yesterday but according to March4 the Coates family have made plenty of money available for transfers it's just that LMH chose not to spend it.............well that's what he said anyway It may be that his choices of striker/s were unavailable or just plain old didn't want to come. That & MLH trying not to emulate the mistakes of QPR. In the end it may be the simple reason, he may have thought that if we were able to create more chances then the current striking options we have available should be able to put them away. However I am hoping that it is the first two because hoping our current options will score more because we create more is/was always a gamble. Just my thoughts. |
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Oct 7, 2013 6:31:34 GMT
The only thing I would say to that onlooker, is are we close to our wage ceiling in terms of the new Financial Fair Play rules that have come into force this season? I don't know if we are but it seems as though we were trying desperately to offload some of our big wage earning flops and failed to do so. Maybe this is why we couldn't/didn't sign a striker as Hughes desperately wanted to. Time will tell come January I expect but the fact that no-one wanted any of our main line strikers is clearly the reason Jerome went out on loan so late in the day. Jerome going out on loan freed up the wages needed to bring in Arnatovic. All speculation on my part here but it does seem about right. It is going to take at least 2 seasons at least to recover from the money that was wasted post FA Cup Final and that is assuming that during that time we can maintain our Premier League status. I've said that for 15-18 months now and only now are the chickens coming home to roost from that wasted expenditure. Clubs like us only get one opportunity to spend money like that and it has to be done wisely. Norwich, Southampton and Swansea have done similar this season and if their spending turns out to be as bad as ours was, they will find themselves in the same position. Villa and Sunderland are both in the same situation having spent countless millions and are now paying the price. Villa might have bailed themselves out of their mess by the bargain arrival of Benteke when they ultimately cash in on him. Begovic, should Man City truly be interested in him, could turn out to be our financial saviour. I agree that the fair play rules must be affecting our ability to bring in (and, more importantly) pay the strikers we need. I'm not sure how we square the circle in January. Obviously, there must be enough to pay Agudelo and, presumably, we had room to have paid Diouf if we had manged to get him. But there is no doubt in my mind that we have to get at least one and preferably two of our bigger earners off the wage bill. Jones and Crouch no doubt are the obvious ones to off load but, paradoxically, they will be the hardest to shift - unless we paid part of their wages - which sort of defeats the object. It seems to me we might have to shift one or two of the middle earners who other clubs might want if the sale price was low enough. I'd perhaps be looking at a selection from: Wilson, Wilko, Palacios, Whelan and Adam. Two or three of those might do the trick until Jones is out of contract in the summer which will free up £40k ish per week. |
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Post by mcf on Oct 7, 2013 6:51:33 GMT
I think you need to look up 'in the cold light of day' Johnno.
Basically, we got fuck all out of the game as we threw away what we had through fucking about with the ball in midfield.
That is the cold light of day I'm afraid.
The rest of what you post is just excuses.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Oct 7, 2013 8:22:12 GMT
It's not excuses at all. It is a summary of a game we should have won and lost.
I've seen it all too often mate. We play well early in the season but don't get the points on the board we should have done. We then hit a rocky patch of form and results continue to be poor and before we know it we are right in the middle of a relegation scrap.
We play countless games where we think "how did we lose that" or "if only we had a striker" or more to the point it generally follows that we've lost a decent player so say "if only we had Stein...If only we had Sheron...If only this team had a Fuller".
On and on it goes and come the end of the season we end up going down.
I'm seriously worried that we are doing more than enough to win games only to then gift wrap the 3 points for the opposition. We handed points on a plate to Arsenal, Man City and Fulham despite playing well. I will discount Norwich in that because we were shit even though there goal came from an uncharacteristic error from Asmir.
Despite being worried by the prospect, at this moment in time, I still think that we have more than enough to steer ourselves away from any impending trouble. We need, though, to score a few goals and to win a few games quickly. The next 2 home games for us are pretty big ones already.
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Post by mcf on Oct 7, 2013 8:34:53 GMT
I have no idea what you are trying to say Johnno
I agree with your last post. I've seen it all too often as well and that is why I'm generally concerned.
This simply doesn't match with much of your first post though. If we play like we have been then there is every chance that we will go down.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Oct 7, 2013 8:51:49 GMT
Of course it matches up.
I think we have more than enough to steer ourselves well clear from any trouble but I'm worried about previous scenarios happening again.
It isn't difficult.
I've read a complete load of shit on here about Saturday and the post was intended to highlight that we created more than enough chances/situations to have won an away game easily.
We aren't a bad side at the moment. In fact, we are pretty good and are showing lots of promise but unless we find someway of scoring goals and taking the pressure off our back line, all of that will count for nothing.
What my post is doing is showing both sides of the coin and giving a true and honest assessment of where we are right now. Plenty to be positive about and enough to be concerned about as well.
I guess it all depends on whether you're glass is half full or empty. For now, mine is half full.
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Post by tcdobinghoff on Oct 7, 2013 9:20:32 GMT
You sum up our situation really well , biggest problem is the quality of the final ball and the taking of chances that do come , sadly they are the most difficult things to find solutions to Yes you are right - plus maybe we don't get the ball forward quickly enough as well. When you watch other sides though a lot of goals don't come from wonderful play outside the top sides. Goalkeeping errors, defensive mistakes, set-pieces, deflections - the mystery is why don't we get our share of these ? |
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Post by foxysgloves on Oct 7, 2013 9:27:30 GMT
For what it's worth I think we're one player away from being a decent side.
Unfortunately that one player, a pacy, intelligent finisher capable of 15 a season, is what virtually every club in the bottom half of the Prem is looking for.
We've needed one since Fuller and we still need one. If Hughes can get the right player in then we'll be fine. If he can't then we're firmly in the group of 6 or so who could easily go down. Even as we are I think we may have enough experience, fight and quality to stay safe. But it won't be easy.
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Post by mcf on Oct 7, 2013 9:33:50 GMT
Mine's on the empty side.
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Post by Sergeant Muttley on Oct 7, 2013 9:45:04 GMT
For me we are not creating clear cut chances for all the possession of the ball/good football.Yes its far better to watch but if we don't start scoring goals we're only going in one direction.
Liverpool away-Walters pen,Huth hitting the bar,can't remember much else?
Palace home 1st half woeful,2nd half 2 good goals in a very good 25 minute spell.After that we saw out the game pretty easy without creating little else?
West Ham away played well without creating hardly anything tbh and settled by a wonderful free kick.Good win.
Man City home best performance of the season and created NUMEROUS CLEAR CUT CHANCES, very encouraging.
Arsenal away Poor defending and a good goal by Cameron.Lots of the ball but never ever looked threatening no clear cut chances.
Norwich home WOEFUL no more to say.
Fulham away For all our good football no cutting edge again and NO CLEAR CUT CHANCES again.
In summary good football to watch but absolutely NO THREAT apart from the Man City game BUT like people have said Hughes should be praised for the way he's trying to play but its very concerning the lack of goal threat.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2013 9:47:22 GMT
We have Jones and Crouch. When Arnie, Ireland and Assaidi start gelling together we'll be OK I reckon. Needs time. There's goals in those fella's. Get Adam and Nzonzi functioning too we'll be more than fine. If we can get Palacios finally ticking too we could be a force. It all needs time. Very unlucky at Fulham.
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Post by iglugluk on Oct 7, 2013 12:47:43 GMT
i was making this point yesterday but according to March4 the Coates family have made plenty of money available for transfers it's just that LMH chose not to spend it.............well that's what he said anyway It may be that his choices of striker/s were unavailable or just plain old didn't want to come. That & MLH trying not to emulate the mistakes of QPR. In the end it may be the simple reason, he may have thought that if we were able to create more chances then the current striking options we have available should be able to put them away. However I am hoping that it is the first two because hoping our current options will score more because we create more is/was always a gamble. Just my thoughts. yes you may very be right....who really knows, eh? One thing I would say however is that other clubs such as WBA, for example, didn't have any problems getting players in it seems to me. This difficulty with transfers seems to be a historical problem for Stoke and it appears neither Hughes or Cartwright has solved it. When you add the continuing statements about self sufficiency coming from the owners it tends to leads my thoughts in a certain direction regarding transfer fund availability, I must say. |
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Post by reddipotter on Oct 7, 2013 16:36:11 GMT
For me we are not creating clear cut chances for all the possession of the ball/good football.Yes its far better to watch but if we don't start scoring goals we're only going in one direction. Liverpool away-Walters pen,Huth hitting the bar,can't remember much else? Palace home 1st half woeful,2nd half 2 good goals in a very good 25 minute spell.After that we saw out the game pretty easy without creating little else? West Ham away played well without creating hardly anything tbh and settled by a wonderful free kick.Good win. Man City home best performance of the season and created NUMEROUS CLEAR CUT CHANCES, very encouraging. Arsenal away Poor defending and a good goal by Cameron.Lots of the ball but never ever looked threatening no clear cut chances. Norwich home WOEFUL no more to say. Fulham away For all our good football no cutting edge again and NO CLEAR CUT CHANCES again. In summary good football to watch but absolutely NO THREAT apart from the Man City game BUT like people have said Hughes should be praised for the way he's trying to play but its very concerning the lack of goal threat. Ireland had one good chance on Saturday, but otherwise I agree with this list of chances. I'm not convinced that what we are getting is better to watch. It is very slow and I haven't detected much excitement in the crowd at any of the games, except for Man City perhaps. |
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Post by pez75 on Oct 8, 2013 11:19:33 GMT
Mine's on the empty side. What a surprise  I bet you were spilling it all over the floor last season though eh? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2013 11:21:01 GMT
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