Birmingham or Sheffield?

[prideofthemidlands]

Which is the bigger footballing city?

[slother]

Relative to their size... Sheffield! World's oldest football club, and Wednesday is *massive*.

[Deleted]

In what context?

[dbstoke]

When both teams are going full tilt, I would give the honours to the city of Birmingham.

Sheffield United and Wednesday would be big clubs, but mediocre at best.
Villa have (until recently) consistently been one of the better teams in the country, so its mainly down to them. As for Birmingham, well...erm...bless em!

[Gordon Marshall]

Villa and Birmingham combined get around 55,000 with a population of around 1.5 million( not exactly sure). Wednesday and united get around 45,000 with a population of about 500,000.
I would say Sheffield as more person per population watch the teams. On the otherhand look at leeds 25,000 or 40,000 if in prem, a one team city of around 700,000 people. Toss.

I would say sheffield or Liverpool ( apart from hard to judge as so many fans from all over support liverpool) is probably the biggest footballing city in England .

[werrington]

Jul 11, 2013 5:25:04 GMT Gordon Marshall said:

Villa and Birmingham combined get around 55,000 with a population of around 1.5 million( not exactly sure). Wednesday and united get around 45,000 with a population of about 500,000.
I would say Sheffield as more person per population watch the teams. On the otherhand look at leeds 25,000 or 40,000 if in prem, a one team city of around 700,000 people. Toss.

I would say sheffield or Liverpool ( apart from hard to judge as so many fans from all over support liverpool) is probably the biggest footballing city in England .

Liverpool is a city where you don't see people wearing any other shirts other than Liverpool or Everton

It's quite surreal that virtually every football fan supports either of those clubs unlike say ours where you frequently see people wearing shirts of other clubs

Hats off to em

[JoeinOz]

Apparently Newcastle is like that too. Geordies only support Newcastle. Or so i'm told.

[Gordon Marshall]

I have a friend from Wavertree in liverpool and yes everyone is liverpool or Everton and seem to be all into their football. However ask them if they go the matches and the reply off liverpool fans is " i cant get a ticket" even though its not always sold out. When i have been to Anfield a lot of Liverpool fans dont have scouse accents. Everton fans i know i would say half go

[st3mark]

Jul 10, 2013 21:57:01 GMT slother said:

Relative to their size... Sheffield! World's oldest football club, and Wednesday is *massive*.

Is that a joke i'm not getting mate? Notts County are the worlds oldest football club, everyone knows that? I'm confused.

[stokeramblers]

Jul 11, 2013 6:08:30 GMT st3mark said:

Jul 10, 2013 21:57:01 GMT slother said:

Relative to their size... Sheffield! World's oldest football club, and Wednesday is *massive*.

Is that a joke i'm not getting mate? Notts County are the worlds oldest football club, everyone knows that? I'm confused.

www.sheffieldfc.com/

[slother]

Sheffield Football Club, in Sheffield, England is the oldest documented stand-alone club, that is, the oldest club not associated with an institution such as a school, hospital or university. It was founded in 1857.

English club Notts County, formed in 1862, is the world's oldest fully professional association football club.

[mensa]

Jul 11, 2013 6:54:49 GMT slother said:

Sheffield Football Club, in Sheffield, England is the oldest documented stand-alone club, that is, the oldest club not associated with an institution such as a school, hospital or university. It was founded in 1857.

English club Notts County, formed in 1862, is the world's oldest fully professional association football club.

It's always made me wonder about that fact ... Who the hell did they play against, and how, against all the odds, has the club been able to survive.. if indeed it has .. with the attentions of the city been focused in latter years on Wednesday and United.?

[stokeramblers]

Jul 11, 2013 7:27:34 GMT mensa said:

Jul 11, 2013 6:54:49 GMT slother said:

Sheffield Football Club, in Sheffield, England is the oldest documented stand-alone club, that is, the oldest club not associated with an institution such as a school, hospital or university. It was founded in 1857.

English club Notts County, formed in 1862, is the world's oldest fully professional association football club.

It's always made me wonder about that fact ... Who the hell did they play against, and how, against all the odds, has the club been able to survive.. if indeed it has .. with the attentions of the city been focused in latter years on Wednesday and United.?

I think they played against Hallam FC (the second oldest club in the world)
The world's oldest football derby.

[slozenger]

Considering the size of Birmingham with it being England's "second city" and it being the most populous British city outside of London. I've always found it strange that BIRMINGHAM CITY have such a poor support. In numbers, not just wealth. 16,702 was their average home attendance last season. Regardless of the fact they were struggling in the 2nd tier. That's pretty abysmal in my opinion. Even top flight matches they've had rarely got anywhere near to capacity and St. Andrew's only holds 30,000 anyway.

I know there are other teams around them like Villa who are a much bigger club but i've always found it a tad perplexing.

[stokemark]

Sheffield undoubtedly has the greater concentration of match going football supporters

[Deleted]

Jul 11, 2013 7:33:51 GMT stokeramblers said:

Jul 11, 2013 7:27:34 GMT mensa said:

It's always made me wonder about that fact ... Who the hell did they play against, and how, against all the odds, has the club been able to survive.. if indeed it has .. with the attentions of the city been focused in latter years on Wednesday and United.?

I think they played against Hallam FC (the second oldest club in the world)
The world's oldest football derby.

Pic or it didn't happen

[Ayupshag]

Sheffield fc do still exist. They played a vets national cup game against shamblers (hanchurch) a couple of years ago. Biggins was playing for them and got sent off for a bit of fisty cuffs with the centre half!!!!

[bristolpotter]

Hmmm Brum should have better support no doubt about it, their support mirrors ours to some degree, can be pretty good during the good times good away followings but fickle as fuck during the bad times can remember watching Stoke there late 80s and the crowd being about 7000 or so, but we're not one to talk can remember a few 7000 gates in local derbies in the 90s, W Mids population must be around 2-3 million, all of the clubs residing there should do better imo, so in a long drawn out answer to your question Sheffield by a mile for me...

[bristolpotter]

Is'nt Burnley one of those other places where you don't see many gloryhunters, unlike where I live it's harder to find a supporter of a local club, Man Utd reign supreme here.

[st3mark]

Jul 11, 2013 6:54:49 GMT slother said:

Sheffield Football Club, in Sheffield, England is the oldest documented stand-alone club, that is, the oldest club not associated with an institution such as a school, hospital or university. It was founded in 1857.

English club Notts County, formed in 1862, is the world's oldest fully professional association football club.

Did not know that!

[slother]

More on it here. www.fifa.com/worldfootball/clubfootball/news/newsid=621801.html

In 1855, members of a local cricket club began to partake in kick-arounds, which were enjoyable if somewhat chaotic due to the absence of fixed regulations. These impromptu games continued over the next couple of years, but it was not until May 1857 that this pastime took on a more serious tone.

William Prest and Nathaniel Creswick were cricket enthusiasts but the sport had one conspicuous drawback: it was exclusively a 'summer' sport. The men desired a sport that, during the 'winter' months, would enable them to keep up their fitness levels and quench their thirst for competition. Association football, they decided over a lengthy, late-night chat, was the answer.

Henceforth, plans were drawn up to form a football club and on 24 October 1857, Sheffield FC was born - its headquarters located in a potting shed and green house. Creswick was appointed captain and secretary and he and Prest went about establishing a set of rules that would allow for the activity's progression.

It was an arduous task but based on other guidelines from football and influences from other sports, they fine-tuned what become known as 'Sheffield Rules'. When the English Football Association was instituted in 1863, it adopted and modified this code of conduct.

Sheffield FC quickly became popular and matches between its members, which took place between teams based on occupation, age or marital status, began to stimulate interest within the local community. Before long a number of teams in and around the Sheffield area were formed. In fact, there were 15 by 1862, including Hallam FC, with whom Sheffield FC share the oldest derby in the world.

Pioneers
Sheffield FC have been behind a number of innovations over the years. Besides their rules, which initiated the use of a solid crossbar instead of rope, free-kicks, corners and overhead throw-ins, they were also fathers of the aerial game, which was unheard of in the south of the country until they travelled down to the Oval to take on a London XI. The sight of their opponents heading the ball provoked fits of hysteria from the London players, but the next time they got together they spent their time practicing the art which would become a trait of English football.

Sheffield FC also helped with the 1889 founding of Sheffield United, who along with Sheffield Wednesday represent the city in the 2007/08 Championship, the second tier of English football. As for the Ancients, as they are sometimes known, they have since tumbled from the heights of English football, failing to appear in the FA Cup proper since the 1880s.

However, under the guidance of chairman Richard Tims, Sheffield FC has undergone a recent resurgence. Financially, they are in a more stable position than ever and they also own a ground for the first time in their remarkable history. The team's on-field fortunes have improved too, underlined by last season's promotion into the Unibond League Division One South.

Undoubtedly, the evolution of this great sport owes much to the English, whose disciples have spread football's popularity from its infancy. There is, however, no doubting Sheffield's founding role in this process.

Incredibly, Sheffield FC were 30 years old when the inaugural league got underway in England; 31 by the time Glaswegian Alexander Hutton emigrated to Argentina and founded an English school and then the Argentinian Football Association; 37 when Charles Miller travelled from Southampton to Sao Paulo and began to popularise football in Brazil; almost 50 when Blackburn-born Daniel Woolfall became the second FIFA President; 65 when the old Wembley Stadium was opened and 108 when England won the FIFA World Cup™.

It is a testament to what a special club Sheffield FC is that, a century-and-a-half on, they are still going strong.

[manchesterpotter]

Sheffield FC and Hallam FC usually play each other in a friendly every summer to celebrate the oldest derby in the world. In fact they're playing the derby later this month.

Both their grounds are well worth visiting for any groundhoppers out there.

[spitthedog]

Jul 11, 2013 22:02:39 GMT manchesterpotter said:

Sheffield FC and Hallam FC usually play each other in a friendly every summer to celebrate the oldest derby in the world. In fact they're playing the derby later this month.

Both their grounds are well worth visiting for any groundhoppers out there.

www.sheffieldfc.com/news/tickets-sale-world’s-oldest-derby

Make a day of it! I'll be there. I went to quite a few matches last season and saw some cracking games.

Sheffield fc is a great little club.

[manchesterpotter]

Jul 11, 2013 22:21:02 GMT spitthedog said:

Jul 11, 2013 22:02:39 GMT manchesterpotter said:

Sheffield FC and Hallam FC usually play each other in a friendly every summer to celebrate the oldest derby in the world. In fact they're playing the derby later this month.

Both their grounds are well worth visiting for any groundhoppers out there.

www.sheffieldfc.com/news/tickets-sale-world’s-oldest-derby

Make a day of it! I'll be there. I went to quite a few matches last season and saw some cracking games.

Sheffield fc is a great little club.

Very tempted. Pain in the arse to get a ticket, though. No excuse not to be able to sell tickets online.

[Roy Cropper]

Jul 11, 2013 7:27:34 GMT mensa said:

Jul 11, 2013 6:54:49 GMT slother said:

Sheffield Football Club, in Sheffield, England is the oldest documented stand-alone club, that is, the oldest club not associated with an institution such as a school, hospital or university. It was founded in 1857.

English club Notts County, formed in 1862, is the world's oldest fully professional association football club.

It's always made me wonder about that fact ... Who the hell did they play against, and how, against all the odds, has the club been able to survive.. if indeed it has .. with the attentions of the city been focused in latter years on Wednesday and United.?

I would of thought it would be in the traditional sense of the word club. As in, people joined the club if they enjoyed football, and would play internally, similar to a group of mates meeting up for 5-a-side.

As for the OP, I would say Sheffield. Great gates (United and Wednesday) for the size of the city and league position of the clubs, plus Sheffield FC should be in any football history book worth its salt.

[mailman44]

Birmingham have Paul Robinson as their captain. That alone has to rule them out.

[PotterLog]

Jul 12, 2013 2:07:34 GMT Roy Cropper said:

Jul 11, 2013 7:27:34 GMT mensa said:

It's always made me wonder about that fact ... Who the hell did they play against, and how, against all the odds, has the club been able to survive.. if indeed it has .. with the attentions of the city been focused in latter years on Wednesday and United.?

I would of thought it would be in the traditional sense of the word club. As in, people joined the club if they enjoyed football, and would play internally, similar to a group of mates meeting up for 5-a-side.

Don't want to state the obvious here but there were loads of other clubs around then. They just don't exist any more...!

[retired1]

Jul 11, 2013 5:42:19 GMT Gordon Marshall said:

I have a friend from Wavertree in liverpool and yes everyone is liverpool or Everton and seem to be all into their football. However ask them if they go the matches and the reply off liverpool fans is " i cant get a ticket" even though its not always sold out. When i have been to Anfield a lot of Liverpool fans dont have scouse accents. Everton fans i know i would say half go

Last September I flew to Oslo on a Sunday and the rest of the plane was made up of both Liverpool and Mun U's Norwegian fans as both teams had played at home that weekend.

[Fenparkpotter]

I doubt Birmingham would draw the crowds that the Sheffield sides have been able to draw in L1. Villa are way out on their own compared to these 3 though.

[Deleted]

Jul 11, 2013 5:25:04 GMT Gordon Marshall said:

Villa and Birmingham combined get around 55,000 with a population of around 1.5 million( not exactly sure). Wednesday and united get around 45,000 with a population of about 500,000.
I would say Sheffield as more person per population watch the teams. On the otherhand look at leeds 25,000 or 40,000 if in prem, a one team city of around 700,000 people. Toss.

I would say sheffield or Liverpool ( apart from hard to judge as so many fans from all over support liverpool) is probably the biggest footballing city in England .

Sorry pal, that is a ridiculous argument to say that attendance/population ratio determines size...
That would make Norwich or Hull bigger, relatively Small cities, 1 club, full house...