The Brave New World of SCFC

[wuzza]

I think we are gradually waking up to what our 'new approach' really means.
Sorry, nothing to do with wildly entertaining football of a Saturday afternoon, everything to do with reducing outgoings (in the face of massively increased incomings) and turning us into some cost effective 'would be' Crewe Alexandra.
Hughes is something of a side issue. Not many managers will be daft enough to sign up to some acadamy based pipe dream - he has less choice than others.
I am sure TP walked away from all this quite happily, his reputation for never having a team relegated still in tact.

[Pugsley]

May 29, 2013 6:12:18 GMT wuzza said:

I think we are gradually waking up to what our 'new approach' really means.
Sorry, nothing to do with wildly entertaining football of a Saturday afternoon, everything to do with reducing outgoings (in the face of massively increased incomings) and turning us into some cost effective 'would be' Crewe Alexandra.
Hughes is something of a side issue. Not many managers will be daft enough to sign up to some acadamy based pipe dream - he has less choice than others.
I am sure TP walked away from all this quite happily, his reputation for never having a team relegated still in tact.

Well the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.  The ex-Manager has left the squad AGAIN in a poor state and needs massive overhaul.  If good players are not brought in then I fear for us next season WHOEVER the manager is.

One thing is for sure, Pulis's model of bringing in ageing pros with no resale value for big money was not sustainable.  He may have is reputation in tact, but his last two years in charge has left the new manager with a much harder job than it should of been - that's not excuses before he has started that's just plain fact.  However, if he is backed, there is no reason any decent Manager should not make a decent fist of things.

[sportsman]

So has Hughes. Going on his previous jobs, Hughes doesn't strike me as someone who gets by on a budget of £2.50.

Like every season we say the same to the media. We aren't going spend this or that. Drive the deals down straight away. Yes, they'll try do things the right way with regards spending, but I'm sure it will always be as Peter has said 'there is no set budget. If the manager comes to me with a player, we will look at it and if its the right player and right deal for the club we will do it'

Anyone that thinks Hughes would come here on a £2.50 budget reads too many papers

[Linx]

Let's wait and see. The close season has barely begun. We won't really get a clear perspective until July-August, when the first few signings trickle in. What kind of players turn up will set the template for the future direction of the club.

[chiswickpotter]

Why was the Pulis model not sustainable? The value of the club today is certainly be in excess of the £80m put in so far by Bet365 especially when we consider the TV money increase. What Pulis was able to do was deliver Premiership survival at relatively low cost. I know this will trigger the usual £80m, 5th highest spenders barrage but given the player asset base we had, no proper academy and our low profile, it was inevitable we would spend big. Other teams had been in and out of the top division so had a core of players - look at West Ham or West Brom.but our wage bill is around 14th or 15th highest and all the research suggests this is the main driver of league position not transfer fees - fees go to clubs, wages to players after all.

This Summer, sell Bego and Jones and probably N'Zonzi, out £10m into the pot, up the wage bill by £10m and strengthen the side and ii prove the operating economics - a tried and trusted formula, only deliverable by Pulis Witt helaying staff we have. Or embark on an experiment that no team has yet to prove is sustainable. The idea we will suddenly we playing like Barca away from home is fantasy. The norm for teams at our level is shut up shop away - Norwich, Sunderland, WBA, West Ham, Fulham, Swansea, Newcastle all turned up last year in this mode

[Lakeland Potter]

For once I find myself agreeing with Pugsley. I don't actually think there will be a huge reduction in spending this season - given the extra income in the Prem this season there is room for a modest increase whilst moving towards self sufficiency. But it is clear that the board want better value for money in the medium term. Signing Crouch for £10 million plus never looked good value given Crouch's age. For £10 million we could have bought any one of several strikers in their early to mid 20s who would probably have done as good a job (or better) over the past two years and would not now be close to the end of their careers and worth the square root of bugger all.

TP did buy the occasional young player with a future and two of the recent ones (N'Zonzi and Begovic) may move on but the crucial thing is they will move on at a profit if they do. Hughes wouldn't be my first choice as manager (far from it) but if he can bring in a few players with a future and fewer "marquee" players whose future is in the past, then the squad and the club should benefit from it.

[starkiller]

MH's first job is to deal with the poor value for money squad Pulis has left us with.


Two proper full-backs at last?


Exciting times.

[cousindupree]

The most worrying part of the stories emerging is that the 'new direction' is of bargain basement shopping for the new manager whoever that is. If it is Hughes then he did some decent business at Blackburn, but QPR was an absolute car crash and he is fortunate to find a prem club that would employ him.
The squad is in serious need of an overhaul thanks to the previous incumbent's transfer strategy.Hughes appointment was a bit risky. To employ him and give him a limited budget appears absolutely reckless to me.

[Deleted]

I was thinking along these lines. Coates is clearly not stupid enough to let a football club bleed him of all his cash. He is also not daft in terms of knowing what sort of money it takes to put a competive team on the field.

I would guess there will be some seed money for a new manager. After that, I would think some fiscal pressure will be brought to bear.

[Lakeland Potter]

May 29, 2013 7:38:17 GMT chiswickpotter said:

Why was the Pulis model not sustainable? The value of the club today is certainly be in excess of the £80m put in so far by Bet365 especially when we consider the TV money increase. What Pulis was able to do was deliver Premiership survival at relatively low cost. I know this will trigger the usual £80m, 5th highest spenders barrage but given the player asset base we had, no proper academy and our low profile, it was inevitable we would spend big. Other teams had been in and out of the top division so had a core of players - look at West Ham or West Brom.but our wage bill is around 14th or 15th highest and all the research suggests this is the main driver of league position not transfer fees - fees go to clubs, wages to players after all.

This Summer, sell Bego and Jones and probably N'Zonzi, out £10m into the pot, up the wage bill by £10m and strengthen the side and ii prove the operating economics - a tried and trusted formula, only deliverable by Pulis Witt helaying staff we have. Or embark on an experiment that no team has yet to prove is sustainable. The idea we will suddenly we playing like Barca away from home is fantasy. The norm for teams at our level is shut up shop away - Norwich, Sunderland, WBA, West Ham, Fulham, Swansea, Newcastle all turned up last year in this mode

We can argue exactly what constitutes "low cost" but what can't be argued is that some managers have delivered Premiership survival at lower cost than TP did. this isn't an anti TP rant (I was a fully paid up rimmer) but even I have to admit that some of signings were dodgy in terms of value for money. To be fair Coates should take a bit of the blame. If he thought the Crouch/Palacios deal was dubious financially he should have put his foot down and told TP to shop for younger (not necessarily cheaper) options.

[JudgeMental]

May 29, 2013 6:20:38 GMT Pugsley said:

May 29, 2013 6:12:18 GMT wuzza said:

I think we are gradually waking up to what our 'new approach' really means.
Sorry, nothing to do with wildly entertaining football of a Saturday afternoon, everything to do with reducing outgoings (in the face of massively increased incomings) and turning us into some cost effective 'would be' Crewe Alexandra.
Hughes is something of a side issue. Not many managers will be daft enough to sign up to some acadamy based pipe dream - he has less choice than others.
I am sure TP walked away from all this quite happily, his reputation for never having a team relegated still in tact.

Well the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.  The ex-Manager has left the squad AGAIN in a poor state and needs massive overhaul.  If good players are not brought in then I fear for us next season WHOEVER the manager is.

One thing is for sure, Pulis's model of bringing in ageing pros with no resale value for big money was not sustainable.  He may have is reputation in tact, but his last two years in charge has left the new manager with a much harder job than it should of been - that's not excuses before he has started that's just plain fact.  However, if he is backed, there is no reason any decent Manager should not make a decent fist of things.

FYI: Pulis left last week. At ease, soldier.

[generationex]

The more time has gone on the more it looks like Pulis walked. It explains why the media department was caught cold in the day of the meeting.
Either he wouldn't accept changes in the management structure or he was told there was no money available.
It's also consistent with Pulis' statement that the club wants to go on a different direction and the appointment of Hughes.

I don't think you can blame the family, it's their money, but it's going to be very hard for stoke to survive and break even.

[snapper23]

May 29, 2013 6:20:52 GMT sportsman said:

So has Hughes. Going on his previous jobs, Hughes doesn't strike me as someone who gets by on a budget of £2.50.

Like every season we say the same to the media. We aren't going spend this or that. Drive the deals down straight away. Yes, they'll try do things the right way with regards spending, but I'm sure it will always be as Peter has said 'there is no set budget. If the manager comes to me with a player, we will look at it and if its the right player and right deal for the club we will do it'

Anyone that thinks Hughes would come here on a £2.50 budget reads too many papers

I don't think that is what the strategy is at all; I think that is what the press are trying to spin out of it. I think what the Coates family will be saying is that they want to see some pro-activity in the rebuilding process. It cannot be all money out from them, there has to be some money in and a sustained effort to improve the fiscal position of the club. They realise I am sure that the worst thing they can do is choke of the life support when the patient is about to undergo major surgery. That will increase their losses.  LMH will have, I am sure, have ensured he ahs a very clear understanding of that.   

[snapper23]

May 29, 2013 9:44:11 GMT generationex said:

The more time has gone on the more it looks like Pulis walked. It explains why the media department was caught cold in the day of the meeting.
Either he wouldn't accept changes in the management structure or he was told there was no money available.
It's also consistent with Pulis' statement that the club wants to go on a different direction and the appointment of Hughes.

I don't think you can blame the family, it's their money, but it's going to be very hard for stoke to survive and break even.

I suspect that there is an element of truth in this. I don't think TP thought there was much wrong with the squad for the football he wanted to play. If he was told he had to break it up as part of the fiscal tightening process and refresh it with players who were going to be appreciating assets, I can well imagine that he spat the dummy and walked.  Given the paucity of realistic, as opposed to aspirational, candidates with PL experience you would have to be very brave, as PC, to choose that time to give your succesful(ish) manager an ultimatum of a type he was bound to reject.