Martinez? Why the negativity?

[silverdollar]

Many fans on this forum are putting two and two together and making five!
Just imagine if Stoke this season had not had Huth and Shawcross available. How well would we have done. Martinez played through the season with a very similar dilemma!
Each of the last seasons Martinez has had good players he has developed taken off him and it has taken half a season before he has been able to galvanise a new squad of players. Wigan have always performed much better in the second half of the season.
He has worked absolute wonders at Wigan with a very small budget and earned the respect of many people with the quality of his approach towards premiership management.
To attract the attention of clubs such as Liverpool and Everton stands testimony to the reputation he has earned. The man is obviously head and shoulders better than our outgoing manager.
At Wigan Martinez has delayed the inevitable for three or four seasons. If Coates gives Martinez the money Pulis had I feel that Martinez would certainly do a better job than Mark Hughes.

[The battheader chronicles]

Agree with all that

[scfcbiancorossi]

He's extremely highly rated in the game for a reason. A cut above anything we've been linked to thus far and we'd be mad to dismiss his availability (if he does leave).

[geoff321]

Tony Pulis would have kept Wigan up.

When Martinez left Swansea to go to Wigan, did he not know the financial postion?
Are you saying he went there expecting that he would take them down?

[mikeyc]

Given the others names that keep being mentioned, I'm coming round to the idea of Martinez. Would certainly fit the "change" thats been hinted at.

[generationex]

He's failed the first rule of Peter Coates - stay in the prem at all costs - so it might be tricky for him.

[scfcbiancorossi]

May 26, 2013 16:39:52 GMT geoff321 said:

Tony Pulis would have kept Wigan up.

When Martinez left Swansea to go to Wigan, did he not know the financial postion?
Are you saying he went there expecting that he would take them down?

Geoff you don't know what you're talking about. Swansea werent in the premier league when he left, you do realise that?

[geoff321]

Of course I know that. Martinez left to take on a PL side who were surviving quite nicely. Whatever the circumstances at Wigan, he took them down.

It beggars belief that this guy is being considered for Everton and Stoke, having just taken Wigan down. If his name was Robert Martin he wouldn't get near these jobs.

[Deleted]

There are plenty of people who are highly rated in the game who are totally unsuitable for this job . Tony Pulis, Chris Hughton , Alan Curbishley , Martin oneil ,as examples being highly rated in the game is only one piece of the jigsaw .

[turbosystems]

to be fair to martinez i think he is a sound bloke,he was chesters player gaffer until the move to swansea came about and chester were doing really well with him,so the seed grew and thats the way it does for a lot of good managers but the problem with appointing him for a lot of people will be he was always in a dog fight and the inevitable happened.

[peterthornesboots]

May 26, 2013 16:35:11 GMT silverdollar said:

Many fans on this forum are putting two and two together and making five!
Just imagine if Stoke this season had not had Huth and Shawcross available. How well would we have done. Martinez played through the season with a very similar dilemma!
Each of the last seasons Martinez has had good players he has developed taken off him and it has taken half a season before he has been able to galvanise a new squad of players. Wigan have always performed much better in the second half of the season.
He has worked absolute wonders at Wigan with a very small budget and earned the respect of many people with the quality of his approach towards premiership management.
To attract the attention of clubs such as Liverpool and Everton stands testimony to the reputation he has earned. The man is obviously head and shoulders better than our outgoing manager.
At Wigan Martinez has delayed the inevitable for three or four seasons. If Coates gives Martinez the money Pulis had I feel that Martinez would certainly do a better job than Mark Hughes.

At the end of the day Martinez has just led Wigan to relegation after the club has spent 8 consecutive seasons in the PL.

For the previous two seasons he managed to scrap survival by the skin of his teeth.

He's had 3 seasons to build a team capable of survival and he's failed.

And all this after Steve Bruce led Wigan to 11th in his final season with a similar budget to Martinez.

[jeycov]

I agree with the point made by Geoff321 that Pulis would have kept Wigan up this season.
Wigans ability to score goals plus our defence (certainly up to Christmas) would have seen us easily finish in the top 10.

That's the sort of team I would like to see at the Brit next season - as for who would be best suited to achieve that I would prefer Martinez to Hughes (a big part of that decision being the fans would be 100% behind him imo)

[The battheader chronicles]

May 26, 2013 16:39:52 GMT geoff321 said:

Tony Pulis would have kept Wigan up.

When Martinez left Swansea to go to Wigan, did he not know the financial postion?
Are you saying he went there expecting that he would take them down?

So you think with some of the injuries that Martinez has had to deal with pulis would have kept wigan up, I'll have a pint of what your drinking please

[peterthornesboots]

May 26, 2013 16:53:28 GMT The battheader chronicles said:

May 26, 2013 16:39:52 GMT geoff321 said:

Tony Pulis would have kept Wigan up.

When Martinez left Swansea to go to Wigan, did he not know the financial postion?
Are you saying he went there expecting that he would take them down?

So you think with some of the injuries that Martinez has had to deal with pulis would have kept wigan up, I'll have a pint of what your drinking please

You could argue that Pulis was without any of his first choice left-sided players this season

Wilson and Etherington injured for most of the season

[fortressbritannia]

Martinez has been at Wigan for 4 seasons now over that time they've conceded 275 goals, that's on average 68.75 goals a season (1.8 goals a game) that's massively high and considering he's been there for 4 seasons why hasn't he brought it down?

The answer he hasn't/can't. He wasted plenty of money trying to bring in defenders but they've all failed massively, I don't think he can spot a good defender.

Personally I think it's criminal how Martinez has turned Wigan from a relatively established midtable team to relegation contenders every season.

[peterthornesboots]

May 26, 2013 16:59:29 GMT fortressbritannia said:

Martinez has been at Wigan for 4 seasons now over that time they've conceded 275 goals, that's on average 68.75 goals a season (1.8 goals a game) that's massively high and considering he's been there for 4 seasons why hasn't he brought it down?

The answer he hasn't/can't. He wasted plenty of money trying to bring in defenders but they've all failed massively, I don't think he can spot a good defender.

Personally I think it's criminal how Martinez has turned Wigan from a relatively established midtable team to relegation contenders every season.

Agreed

It's been noted in some of the papers this weekend that there hasn't been a manager who has failed so much, yet has seen his reputation rise, as much as Martinez

[Staffsoatcake]

Martinez over Pulis every day of the week for me.
I realy dont think Pulis would have kept Wigan up the way Martinez did,dont forget Martines got results against some of the top teams,which in the end kept them up,do you honestly believe Pulis would have got those results?

[The battheader chronicles]

May 26, 2013 16:57:01 GMT peterthornesboots said:

May 26, 2013 16:53:28 GMT The battheader chronicles said:

So you think with some of the injuries that Martinez has had to deal with pulis would have kept wigan up, I'll have a pint of what your drinking please

You could argue that Pulis was without any of his first choice left-sided players this season

Wilson and Etherington injured for most of the season

Fair point, but I still think pulis with that budget and those injuries wouldn't have kept them up, opinions eh

[turbosystems]

uh oh just had a bad thought........ mick mccarthy,he was wolves boss and took them down and then got the shove which is what i think will happen to martinez anyway if he stays at wigan and they are doing crap by xmas

[peterthornesboots]

May 26, 2013 17:06:17 GMT Staffsoatcake said:

dont forget Martines got results against some of the top teams,which in the end kept them up,do you honestly believe Pulis would have got those results?

At home, yes

Martinez found out that beating top teams at the end of the season (ala Arsenal) doesn't happen two seasons running

[Olgrligm]

It's all well and good saying 'what if we lost Shawcross or Huth', but the fact is that we have never had to worry about centre backs very much in the last ten years. Good centre backs are well within Wigan's budget. You could have picked up Huth, Shawcross and Faye for less than he paid for Boselli. There are other, similarly cheap options out there for those willing to look, but Martinez is either unable or unwilling to do so.

He has a lot to prove, an awful lot.

[trigger]

Always thought that RM played pretty much like Holloway did at Blackpool, forward thinking manager and screw the defence, whatever the cost.
As stated you can easily pick up an ageing reliable CH who'll do a job for the team but RM never did so and they always conceded by the lorry full.
Exciting to watch but consequences are now obvious to see.

[caniche]

May 26, 2013 16:35:11 GMT silverdollar said:

Many fans on this forum are putting two and two together and making five!
Just imagine if Stoke this season had not had Huth and Shawcross available. How well would we have done. Martinez played through the season with a very similar dilemma!
Each of the last seasons Martinez has had good players he has developed taken off him and it has taken half a season before he has been able to galvanise a new squad of players. Wigan have always performed much better in the second half of the season.
He has worked absolute wonders at Wigan with a very small budget and earned the respect of many people with the quality of his approach towards premiership management.
To attract the attention of clubs such as Liverpool and Everton stands testimony to the reputation he has earned. The man is obviously head and shoulders better than our outgoing manager.
At Wigan Martinez has delayed the inevitable for three or four seasons. If Coates gives Martinez the money Pulis had I feel that Martinez would certainly do a better job than Mark Hughes.

That is simply not correct and an ongoing example of Martinez being given far too much credit.

Wigan line-up May 2012: Al Habsi, Alcaraz, Caldwell, Figueroa, McArthur, McCarthy, Boyce, Beausejour, Moses, Maloney, Di Santo.

Wigan line-up Sept. 2012: Al Habsi, Ramis, Caldwell, Figueroa, McArthur, McCarthy, Boyce, Beausejour, Kone, Maloney, Di Santo. (Alcaraz on the bench)

...and he took them down to the Championship.

I do not dislike the guy. How can you? However, he needs to be judged on exactly what he has accomplished, not myths about the same. He seems incapable of getting his teams to play their best until it is almost too late...and this year it actually was. Could he get us scoring more goals? Surely, but at what cost defensively? It's not just about the personnel, but their deployment as well. I'd be worried if he were appointed.

[The battheader chronicles]

May 26, 2013 17:32:22 GMT caniche said:

May 26, 2013 16:35:11 GMT silverdollar said:

Many fans on this forum are putting two and two together and making five!
Just imagine if Stoke this season had not had Huth and Shawcross available. How well would we have done. Martinez played through the season with a very similar dilemma!
Each of the last seasons Martinez has had good players he has developed taken off him and it has taken half a season before he has been able to galvanise a new squad of players. Wigan have always performed much better in the second half of the season.
He has worked absolute wonders at Wigan with a very small budget and earned the respect of many people with the quality of his approach towards premiership management.
To attract the attention of clubs such as Liverpool and Everton stands testimony to the reputation he has earned. The man is obviously head and shoulders better than our outgoing manager.
At Wigan Martinez has delayed the inevitable for three or four seasons. If Coates gives Martinez the money Pulis had I feel that Martinez would certainly do a better job than Mark Hughes.

That is simply not correct and an ongoing example of Martinez being given far too much credit.

Wigan line-up May 2012: Al Habsi, Alcaraz, Caldwell, Figueroa, McArthur, McCarthy, Boyce, Beausejour, Moses, Maloney, Di Santo.

Wigan line-up Sept. 2012: Al Habsi, Ramis, Caldwell, Figueroa, McArthur, McCarthy, Boyce, Beausejour, Kone, Maloney, Di Santo. (Alcaraz on the bench)

...and he took them down to the Championship.

I do not dislike the guy. How can you? However, he needs to be judged on exactly what he has accomplished, not myths about the same. He seems incapable of getting his teams to play their best until it is almost too late...and this year it actually was. Could he get us scoring more goals? Surely, but at what cost defensively? It's not just about the personnel, but their deployment as well. I'd be worried if he were appointed.

I'd like to know what that side cost in comparison to ours,I'm guessing big difference

[ianrb1]

We don't want him here. How can he be better than TP when he has relegated a club ? TP has taken on some onerous tasks and been successful.

Martinez may have had a small budget relatively speaking but his cavalier approach has cost his team their Premiership status and his home form particularly is appalling. He is not for us.

[sportsman]

It just makes me laugh that any manager that we are able to attract we are picking even the slightest thing wrong with him.

If there was a manager out there without a fault we wouldn't be able to attract him anyway, so we have to be realistic.

Even the top, top clubs appoint managers that not all their fans agree with, so I'm not getting hung up on a few fans pointing out the obvious about someone like Martinez.

You have to look at the bigger picture, and overall, Martinez would be a good appointment, allowing him to bring in the right people alongside him to organise the defence, and with that I'd be well happy.

Plays nice footy, attacks teams home and away, likes wingers, speaks well, media like him, other fans seem to like him, good contacts abroad no doubt, loyal to his club seemingly or as loyal as a footy manager can be.

So sort out the right backroom staff and I'd be well happy with him

Ticks more boxes than he doesn't

[philm87]

I used to think he was massively overrated until I saw their transfer spend under him. Compare it to what his predecessors were spending then survival is a success for a club like Wigan. This season they have finally got what was coming, but for a club their size to win the FA Cup is very impressive.

I still think he is overrated and he can't organize a defence, but I've now seen enough to convince me that he is a decent enough manager at this level and given his age I think he will get better.

If we brought him in along with an assistant who could explain to him what defending was then I would be happy. I also think his way of doing things would sit nicely with Coates' long-term vision of sustainability and youth development.

[Deleted]

Matinez is as one dimensional as Pulis but in a completely opposite way.
The way Wigan play the ball out of defence has been shown to be completely reckless on many occasions this season yet Martinez persists with this tactic in the same way that Pulis persists with the hoof up to Crouch.
Pulisball bores me to death,Martinezball scares the shit out of me !

[Deleted]

May 26, 2013 18:14:43 GMT @mayf said:

Matinez is as one dimensional as Pulis but in a completely opposite way.
The way Wigan play the ball out of defence has been shown to be completely reckless on many occasions this season yet Martinez persists with this tactic in the same way that Pulis persists with the hoof up to Crouch.
Pulisball bores me to death,Martinezball scares the shit out of me !

Completely fair appraisal.

[philm87]

May 26, 2013 18:14:43 GMT @mayf said:

Matinez is as one dimensional as Pulis but in a completely opposite way.
The way Wigan play the ball out of defence has been shown to be completely reckless on many occasions this season yet Martinez persists with this tactic in the same way that Pulis persists with the hoof up to Crouch.
Pulisball bores me to death,Martinezball scares the shit out of me !

I think that is true to a point but he is not quite as stuck in his ways as TP.

The 5-3-2 formation that Wigan have played the last couple of seasons is not the same that Martinez played when he first went there. He stumbled across it a couple of years back when they were struggling and it seemed to work for them so he stuck with it. I don't think he will necessarily play the exact same system throughout his entire career in management.

Although I do agree that telling Gary Caldwell to start juggling the ball on the edge of his own box is incredibly daft, regardless of 'philosophy'.